The Realitypill: easier said than done.

AverageCurryEnjoyer · Apr 23, 2025

FUAAAAAAAAAAARK, ITS OVER. OVER OVER OVER OVER OVER OVER OVER OVER OVE oVER ovER ovER ovER ovER.

. The most brutal pill ever dropped

. The TrUE HiroShima Nagasaki Blackpills talked about in rhe sacred text and scriptures of Saint Hamudi Blessed be thy Name.

Be an AMazing hERo and Go ER. Go ER on this evil world

.

AverageCurryEnjoyer · Apr 23, 2025

Foreverbrad said:
It’s what you’d expect from a forum full of teenagers.
I’m fully cognizant that I’m spending my house deposit on Trimax and of what steroid use is doing to my long term health. It just is what it is. The other reality pill is:

Unless you make a drastic change you will be living the same shit, incel life until you die and you will be forever tortured by regret.

ITS NEVER OVER FUARRRRK, WE'RE SO BACK.

JUST PRAY TO GANDY FOR YOUR BONES AND IT WILL BE GRANTED

Zagro · Apr 23, 2025

shakara · Apr 23, 2025

HighIQ thread maybe a Botb

it is truly over ropefuel tbh i might never return bhai

AverageCurryEnjoyer · Apr 23, 2025

An expansion upon the realitypill under genetic circumstances and determinism, enviorment, and how it relates to your available opportunities

As mentioned in the post and previous posts, the ultimate pill is the genetic lottery and circumstance pill. Barron Trump will never be mogged by a 4'11 bald janitor from the slumw of Mumbai. Where you are born and what place you are born and who ypu are born to Is crucial if you want to succeed. It never began for you ( you can still ascend ) if you were born to poor parents. Iy nevee began for you if you were born the the battlefield of Sierra Leone.

In the words of Saint Hamudi, "I was born and it was over."

Another Fun blackpill that affects chads who ascended throigh looksmaxxing is that through genetic determinism, It never began. You cant fool your neurotransmitters, There is no looksmaxx capable of fixing an abused dog.

I qill continue tomorrow

shakara · Apr 23, 2025

AverageCurryEnjoyer said:
An expansion upon the realitypill under genetic circumstances and determinism, enviorment, and how it relates to your available opportunities

As mentioned in the post and previous posts, the ultimate pill is the genetic lottery and circumstance pill. Barron Trump will never be mogged by a 4'11 bald janitor from the slumw of Mumbai. Where you are born and what place you are born and who ypu are born to Is crucial if you want to succeed. It never began for you ( you can still ascend ) if you were born to poor parents. Iy nevee began for you if you were born the the battlefield of Sierra Leone.

In the words of Saint Hamudi, "I was born and it was over."

Another Fun blackpill that affects chads who ascended throigh looksmaxxing is that through genetic determinism, It never began. You cant fool your neurotransmitters, There is no looksmaxx capable of fixing an abused dog.

I qill continue tomorrow

Dnr but it seems deep

bruhtoobrutal · Apr 23, 2025

good fucking thread and good format for my dopamine addicted ass, definitely going on BOTB

Remeliawpckhardt · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
@Alexanderr @TechnoBoss @Gengar @Quncho @Ron.Belgrade BOTB worthy?

Great thread bhai

solodolo · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

looksmax.org

1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

looksmax.org

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

looksmax.org

Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

looksmax.org

Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

looksmax.org

Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.

Thoughts on small rhinoplasties like an alar plasty or tip plasty? Good thread btw

menas · Apr 23, 2025

solodolo said:
Thoughts on small rhinoplasties like an alar plasty or tip plasty? Good thread btw

could be better than rhino if you only have a specific failo on your nose e.g: big nose tip
since the rest of the nose will remain more natural

Judge Holden · Apr 23, 2025

schoolshootingmaxxing for me

Zagro · Apr 23, 2025

Get this in BOTB

solodolo · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
could be better than rhino if you only have a specific failo on your nose e.g: big nose tip
since the rest of the nose will remain more natural

Nice. Alar/tip plasty appears to both heal well and look less obvious overall. Feel like you can get away with a small alar plasty without anyone really noticing.

menas · Apr 23, 2025

Zagro said:
Get this in BOTB

@Alexanderr bhaiiii.. thoughts about this?

Jué · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

looksmax.org

1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

looksmax.org

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

looksmax.org

Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

looksmax.org

Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

looksmax.org

Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.

One of the best users currently

LDV · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

looksmax.org

1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

looksmax.org

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

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Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

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Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

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Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

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Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.

I observed every molecule.
Truly high-quality thread.

Volksstaffel · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

looksmax.org

1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

looksmax.org

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

looksmax.org

Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

looksmax.org

Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

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CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

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TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

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Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.

Finally dude

They_are_all_whores · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

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OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

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1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

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Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

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Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

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Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

looksmax.org

Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.

High IQ user

ectomorpher · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

looksmax.org

1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

looksmax.org

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

looksmax.org

Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

looksmax.org

Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

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Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

looksmax.org

Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.

you can sum it all up with “its over”

Lawton88 · Apr 23, 2025

A genio and a nose job does wonders with some people.

I can't count the number of uncanny results with wraparound implants etc. though.

MelaninMogg · Apr 24, 2025

s

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

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1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

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Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

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Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

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Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

looksmax.org

Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.

so its basically fucking over and there’s nothing i can do about it, imma go rope

AverageCurryEnjoyer · Apr 24, 2025

MelaninMogg said:
s

so its basically fucking over and there’s nothing i can do about it, imma go rope

lean and pray

Acquiescence · Apr 24, 2025

Yup, pretty much sums it up

I’ll have to undergo multiple procedures (reasonable, time-tested, high ROI ones with “safe”, well-known surgeons), a whole host of softmaxxes and frauds, and geomaxxing, all just to maybe ascend from LTN->MTN and hopefully attain some paltry level of genuine romantic and sexual experience.

Even then, it’s still a ~50k gamble that may or may not work. And regardless, I’ll still be ND, carrying baggage from missed milestone experiences in my youth, stuck wageslaving for 40+ years, etc. Same ol’ inescapable problems most of us here have

If this plan fails, instead of ruining my life further by going down the hardmaxxing rabbit hole, I will simply opt to fully give up, MSTOWmaxx, and cope and cope some more till death do us part

solodolo · Apr 24, 2025

Acquiescence said:
Yup, pretty much sums it up

I’ll have to undergo multiple procedures (reasonable, time-tested, high ROI ones with “safe”, well-known surgeons), a whole host of softmaxxes and frauds, and geomaxxing, all just to maybe ascend from LTN->MTN and hopefully attain some paltry level of genuine romantic and sexual experience.

Even then, it’s still a ~50k gamble that may or may not work. And regardless, I’ll still be ND, carrying baggage from missed milestone experiences in my youth, stuck wageslaving for 40+ years, etc. Same ol’ inescapable problems most of us here have

If this plan fails, instead of ruining my life further by going down the hardmaxxing rabbit hole, I will simply opt to fully give up, MSTOWmaxx, and cope and cope some more till death do us part

What are the failos that make you a LTN?

Acquiescence · Apr 24, 2025

solodolo said:
What are the failos that make you a LTN?

https://looksmax.org/threads/finall...urgical-ascension-plan-to-get-to-mtn.1407815/

Deleted member 74090 · Apr 24, 2025

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

looksmax.org

1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

looksmax.org

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

looksmax.org

Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

looksmax.org

Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

looksmax.org

Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.

These are the kind of posts that make me truly appreciate this forum lol. A lot, if not most, is wrong though.

Things that are true is normies overrating surgery. Thinking the difference between them and kendall jenner is a couple surgeries lol.

But what is wrong is the doomerism in this post. Complications of bimax aren’t 20-50% permanent numbness. From what I have read its more like 5%, which you get used to. Also in the chin/lower lip.

Also, 30-70k for ccw? Are you smoking crack? Bimax with ccw and everything is like 30k for the most expensive surgeons in Europe. 10-15k is normal. 70k? For that price they better transplant Cavill’s skull on my face.

But surgery is not there to ascend you. Realistically, being lean + fit + well groomed SHOULD make you handsome. Atleast far above average. If that’s not the case you have flaws. Which can be fixed with surgery. Barring very bad upper midface recession or brutal eye area, which is very rare.

RazerGlazer · Apr 24, 2025

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

looksmax.org

1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

looksmax.org

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

looksmax.org

Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

looksmax.org

Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

looksmax.org

Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.

good post and that comes RARELY from me.

I have also a brutal reality check for jaw implants but I'm just too lazy/ low effort rn

SecularIslamist · Apr 24, 2025

Bookmarked for later. Mirin IQ and formatmaxxed thread.

Milly477 · Apr 24, 2025

I was 16 when I found out about the bp, at 18 I could get a bimax, if you moneymaxx it possible. Posts coming from me soon about surgery at 18/19

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

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1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

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Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

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Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

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Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

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CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

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Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

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DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

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[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

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Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

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Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.

s

klamus · Apr 24, 2025

Theres More fear mongering than needed in Your post. Swelling is 90% over after a month after bimax. There's no pain after The first week of LL. Next Time theres pain after you get considerable lengthening inches
2,5+. LL is just a major hassle because you cant walk properly For at least 4 months, and Even after then you start really slowly. Lifesaver for invisible 5'6 manlets though. For most people it might Be not Be worth it. I'm still single though at 32. Couple of matches a year on Tinder and maybe 2 dates a year

Subhuman232 · Apr 24, 2025

klamus said:
oTheres More fear mongering than needed in Your post. Swelling is 90% over after a month after bimax. There's no pain after The first week of LL. Next Time theres pain after you get considerable lengthening inches
2,5+. LL is just a major hassle because you cant walk properly For at least 4 months, and Even after then you start really slowly. Lifesaver for invisible 5'6 manlets though. For most people it might Be not Be worth it. I'm still single though at 32. Couple of matches a year on Tinder and maybe 2 dates a year

I've read a ton of diaries on leg lengthening forum, first week of recovery is quite brutal lol, screaming in pain is normal from what I've read. BUT I found a vietnamese doctor that was literally part of the first leg lengthening surgery in history in 1991, a lot of people on the forum also already got their surgery from him, costs about 21k$ for full package, doesn't include food though caus they said the food is shit so you'd order from grabfood

Franco333 · Apr 24, 2025

high iq

RecessedChinCel · Apr 24, 2025

Ok but procedures like jaw/Chin implants, rhino, hair transplant are typically low risk, have reasonable recovery times, and are fairly financially attainable. If u need to spend 100k plus on surgery just to be human it’s probably over. And truth is if your jaw is deformed enough to even warrant craniofacial surgery it will be considered a medical necessity (esp after decompensation) and can get covered by insurance. Also there is things like medical tourism etc.

itzyaboyJJ · Apr 24, 2025

Read every word

Repped every reply

Nice thread, it really all comes down to your genetics, water.

all this looksmaxxing for yourself has already been predetermined by your genes, reaching that genetic limit.

But most surgery’s are definitely in reach like genio or rhinoplasty’s with a year or two of wageslaving.

klamus · Apr 25, 2025

Subhuman232 said:
I've read a ton of diaries on leg lengthening forum, first week of recovery is quite brutal lol, screaming in pain is normal from what I've read. BUT I found a vietnamese doctor that was literally part of the first leg lengthening surgery in history in 1991, a lot of people on the forum also already got their surgery from him, costs about 21k$ for full package, doesn't include food though caus they said the food is shit so you'd order from grabfood

"Screaming in pain" are you fucking serious? You would scream in pain if you were awake when someone drilled into your Leg. A cut bone that isnt shearing against anything literally feels nothing. People as gullible and retarded as you shouldnt Post anywhere

illusion · Apr 25, 2025

Thankfully most of the procedures I need to get aren’t on this list at all (besides Bimax for my severe deep bite) so I can still continue coping, no intention of ever doing any of these other procedures. Good thread OP.

VolcelFTW · Apr 25, 2025

good thread, you should add a secon thread song though

Subhuman232 · Apr 26, 2025

klamus said:
"Screaming in pain" are you fucking serious? You would scream in pain if you were awake when someone drilled into your Leg. A cut bone that isnt shearing against anything literally feels nothing. People as gullible and retarded as you shouldnt Post anywhere

Why are u so pressed? I was stating what I've seen in the leg lengthening forum diaries and ur tweaking.

This is why this forum is shit, u can't even argue, people like u would just go monkey over some simple disagreement, very disappointing

klamus · Apr 26, 2025

Subhuman232 said:
Why are u so pressed? I was stating what I've seen in the leg lengthening forum diaries and ur tweaking.

This is why this forum is shit, u can't even argue, people like u would just go monkey over some simple disagreement, very disappointing

Becaude youre retarded and regurgitate wrong information. Just think For a moment. Is it really possible For you to Be screaming every waking moment? 16 hours a Day. No. You scream when something gets dramatically Broken. The bone is cut. Theres nothing to worry about. People lie(exaggerate) to Make their experience seen More unique. You wrote incorrect things about bimax which I have experienced. I Took ibuprofen For like 4 days and that was it.

Pain shouldnt Be Even 1% of The equation when you choose to pursue a surgery.

Subhuman232 · Apr 26, 2025

klamus said:
Becaude youre retarded and regurgitate wrong information. Just think For a moment. Is it really possible For you to Be screaming every waking moment? 16 hours a Day. No. You scream when something gets dramatically Broken. The bone is cut. Theres nothing to worry about. People lie(exaggerate) to Make their experience seen More unique. You wrote incorrect things about bimax which I have experienced. I Took ibuprofen For like 4 days and that was it.

Pain shouldnt Be Even 1% of The equation when you choose to pursue a surgery.

Yeah that's not the case at all, at night time many users literally reported the pain gets worse even with pain killers, it's funny that u think what you've experienced is what's everyone's experience haha. Narcissist level of thinking

klamus · Apr 26, 2025

Subhuman232 said:
Yeah that's not the case at all, at night time many users literally reported the pain gets worse even with pain killers, it's funny that u think what you've experienced is what's everyone's experience haha. Narcissist level of thinking

Sure, pain often gets worse at night. They are still not screaming. Op is just fear mongering. I hate it because jews control people with fear. Its The most powerful tool

Subhuman232 · Apr 26, 2025

klamus said:
Sure, pain often gets worse at night. They are still not screaming. Op is just fear mongering. I hate it because jews control people with fear. Its The most powerful tool

I agree about the fear mongering part

Quncho · Apr 26, 2025

congrats.

LiL 369 · Apr 26, 2025

Yay another BOTB thread good job

. Cant wait to see looksmax tiktokers adding this thread to their courses or videos

.

diditeverbegin · Apr 26, 2025

All this has happened because most people don't understand what the blackpill is. It's not "looks matter". It's that your genes and LUCK determine your life. You are TRAPPED IN YOUR BODY any youngcel reading this needs to understand that. YOU CAN'T ESCAPE.
It's comical people think a bimax will even take them to HTN. MTN is average, surgery is primarily focused on normalizing facial appearance. In other words, most people are going to end up at MTN, few will reach a 6.5/10. Just look at Ramieri's results for example, barely any serious ascensions.
Jfl bro people like Joseph Ponikvar thought they can become chads through surgeries. I am not sure about the distribution of chads but I'm willing to wager it is around 1 in 10,000 people.
100 chads in a city of 1 million btw.

TLDR: YOU ARE YOU, AND YOU ARE STUCK AS THAT. PLAY THE CARDS YOU WERE DEALT; YOU CAN'T ALTER YOUR HAND. ANY GREAT ASCENSION EVER IS DUE TO SUPERIOR GENES. AND SOME OF YOU WERE PROBABLY MEANT TO DIE BEFORE ADULTHOOD, BUT WERE SAVED BY MODERN HEALTHCARE.

Amazing thread @menas

diditeverbegin · Apr 26, 2025

diditeverbegin said:
All this has happened because most people don't understand what the blackpill is. It's not "looks matter". It's that your genes and LUCK determine your life. You are TRAPPED IN YOUR BODY any youngcel reading this needs to understand that. YOU CAN'T ESCAPE.
It's comical people think a bimax will even take them to HTN. MTN is average, surgery is primarily focused on normalizing facial appearance. In other words, most people are going to end up at MTN, few will reach a 6.5/10. Just look at Ramieri's results for example, barely any serious ascensions.
Jfl bro people like Joseph Ponikvar thought they can become chads through surgeries. I am not sure about the distribution of chads but I'm willing to wager it is around 1 in 10,000 people.
100 chads in a city of 1 million btw.

TLDR: YOU ARE YOU, AND YOU ARE STUCK AS THAT. PLAY THE CARDS YOU WERE DEALT; YOU CAN'T ALTER YOUR HAND. ANY GREAT ASCENSION EVER IS DUE TO SUPERIOR GENES. AND SOME OF YOU WERE PROBABLY MEANT TO DIE BEFORE ADULTHOOD, BUT WERE SAVED MY MODERN HEALTHCARE.

Amazing thread @menas

"Muh puberty" cope needs to end also. I don't think I would be able to write a good thread on it tho.

BoredPrince · Apr 26, 2025

Read everything, pretty good thread imo

And completely agree, majority of ascensions that happened here, especially in last 2 years were just leanmax and going through puberty

THAT'S IT

Because most of them had excellent base, they didn't need surgeries or drugs to ascend

bruhtoobrutal · Apr 26, 2025

second botb congrats @menas

Zagro · Apr 26, 2025

Damn congrats @menas

Deleted member 48352 · Apr 26, 2025

menas said:
Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

u forget about relapse

The Realitypill: easier said than done.

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