How to avoid the degradation of meibomian glands while using retinoids?

[Mongrelcel]

The Influence of 13-cis Retinoic Acid on Human Meibomian Gland Epithelial Cells

Meibomian gland dysfunction (MGD) is a primary cause of dry eye disease. One of the risk factors for MGD is exposure to 13-cis retinoic acid (13-cis RA), a metabolite of vitamin A. However, the mechanism is not well understood. We hypothesize that 13-cis ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

TLDR - retinoids kill the cells in meibomian glands, this is relatively well known

Tretinoin is very potent and also not selective in what receptors it targets in the skin. There are no studies to back this up as far as I know, but I think it's reasonable to believe that a less potent, more selective retinoid will be less problematic. Adapalene is one example, and it's available over the counter in the .1% strength. Trifarotene is the newest topical retinoid, and it's rx only. It's also the most selective (targets RAR-γ only). Interestingly enough, there's another RAR-γ selective retinoid that's in clinical trials to treat MGD (Palovarotene), and in one study (on mice only) this compound was shown not to negatively affect meibomian glands.

Does anyone know of somethine else, or how to get Aklief?

 

[deepweb1298]

Apparently Aklief is super expensive and you need health insurance to reasonably get it. Probably need to wait 5-10 years for it to reach europe and uk.

 

[dakchuh]

so meibomian glands are oil glands along the opening of the eyelids... so why not just keep tret away from your eyes? i dont apply tret above my upper eyelids to my eyebrows and an inch under my bottom eyelids. unless it can migrate from even that far to the meibomian glands?

 

[Deleted member 2729]

so meibomian glands are oil glands along the opening of the eyelids... so why not just keep tret away from your eyes? i dont apply tret above my upper eyelids to my eyebrows and an inch under my bottom eyelids. unless it can migrate from even that far to the meibomian glands?

Tret goes semi systemic

 

[FrenchareMedCucks]

use warm compress every morning to opened up and smooth your mebomian glans it works well for my eye dryness.

 

[thereallegend]

Put castor oil on eyelashes to offset

 

[Wallenberg]

Haven't redditors busted this myth?

 

[Mongrelcel]

Haven't redditors busted this myth?

elab
why myth?

 

[Wallenberg]

elab
why myth?

That tretinoin makes the eye area worse/older looking.

 

[Mongrelcel]

That tretinoin makes the eye area worse/older looking.

I'm not talking about looks

I'm talking about the retinoid eroding the function of the meibomian glands, making them secrete less oil (and of lower quality), therefore the tear film above your cornea dries up faster, therefore you have dry eyes

 

[Alexanderr]

Bump, boomp, boomped.

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

you can't. I've applied every precaution yet it made my eyes dry. hopefully I didn't fuck the glands up too hard but it's hard to see

 

[Wallenberg]

I'm not talking about looks

I'm talking about the retinoid eroding the function of the meibomian glands, making them secrete less oil (and of lower quality), therefore the tear film above your cornea dries up faster, therefore you have dry eyes

Interesting. That's a whole different issue than what I had on my mind. Some people claim that tret/ret causes fat loss in the eye area, which is looksmin, but some think it's a myth or very rare.

 

[Mongrelcel]

Interesting. That's a whole different issue than what I had on my mind. Some people claim that tret/ret causes fat loss in the eye area, which is looksmin, but some think it's a myth or very rare.

well, fundamentally it could be a part of the same issue - does tret cause fat loss only in the area (and a little bit around) where it's applied to, or does it go systemic and cause fat loss and other negative side effects like glands destruction even far away from places where it was applied

studies suggest that the amount of tret that goes systemic is incredibly low, aka insignificant, but as @PURE ARYAN GENETICS said, even after taking every precaution I still could feel my eyes getting worse
So what's the deal with that?

 

[Wallenberg]

well, fundamentally it could be a part of the same issue - does tret cause fat loss only in the area (and a little bit around) where it's applied to, or does it go systemic and cause fat loss and other negative side effects like glands destruction even far away from places where it was applied

studies suggest that the amount of tret that goes systemic is incredibly low, aka insignificant, but as @PURE ARYAN GENETICS said, even after taking every precaution I still could feel my eyes getting worse
So what's the deal with that?

There isn't a consensus about this. Many Redditors think it's a myth or very rare; some believe it happened to them. It's a shame because tretinoin is one of the rare skincare ingredients that have been proven to work.

I have no opinion about this.

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

There isn't a consensus about this. Many Redditors think it's a myth or very rare; some believe it happened to them. It's a shame because tretinoin is one of the rare skincare ingredients that have been proven to work.

I have no opinion about this.

there are many posts about it on reddit. some even went to eye doctor and their glands are 100% nuked. it's pretty much gg rope at that point. of course these posts are drowned out by the acnecel ascensions when you look at jennifer myers you can maybe see her eyes are slightly fucked but she doesn't excessively blink or anything (I was literally looking for this before I bought it to ease my concerns)

studies suggest that the amount of tret that goes systemic is incredibly low, aka insignificant, but as @ /data/avatars/s/5/5543.jpg?1647353523 @PURE ARYAN GENETICS said, even after taking every precaution I still could feel my eyes getting worse
So what's the deal with that?

yeah that's what I was thinking. some have suggested to apply vaseline around the eyes and mouth to prevent migration on the skin surface maybe that would help but there are way too many sides

 

[RAITEIII]

I use tretinoin like a madman and never had dry eyes because of it.

 

[Alexanderr]

Seems like it's unavoidable but you can try taking fish oil supplements in order to combat it.

 

[Need2Ascend]

Tretinoin definitely makes everything drier. It's just most noticeable in the eyes

 

[Mongrelcel]

yeah that's what I was thinking. some have suggested to apply vaseline around the eyes and mouth to prevent migration on the skin surface maybe that would help but there are way too many sides

you perhaps don't know, but you can do a "short contact therapy" with tret, basically applying tret, leaving it there for hour or two, and putting it down
it's pretty much as effective as normal, overnight application - but it makes sure there is no way that a bunch of tret migrates to your eyes
I did that and still have problems with eye dryness

Seems like it's unavoidable but you can try taking fish oil supplements in order to combat it.

damage to these glands is rather serious, you can permafuck your eyes
little bit of fish oil won't help you there

 

[Deleted member 18840]

there are many posts about it on reddit. some even went to eye doctor and their glands are 100% nuked. it's pretty much gg rope at that point. of course these posts are drowned out by the acnecel ascensions when you look at jennifer myers you can maybe see her eyes are slightly fucked but she doesn't excessively blink or anything (I was literally looking for this before I bought it to ease my concerns)

yeah that's what I was thinking. some have suggested to apply vaseline around the eyes and mouth to prevent migration on the skin surface maybe that would help but there are way too many sides

Then just apply aha bha?

 

[Alexanderr]

you perhaps don't know, but you can do a "short contact therapy" with tret, basically applying tret, leaving it there for hour or two, and putting it down
it's pretty much as effective as normal, overnight application - but it makes sure there is no way that a bunch of tret migrates to your eyes
I did that and still have problems with eye dryness


damage to these glands is rather serious, you can permafuck your eyes
little bit of fish oil won't help you there

Seems like there's always a trade-off with looksmaxing...

 

[Deleted member 18840]

Seems like there's always a trade-off with looksmaxing...

Ive noticed similar gains on aha bha ordinary i guess no sides with it? @Mongrelcel

 

[Alexanderr]

Ive noticed similar gains on aha bha ordinary i guess no sides with it? @Mongrelcel

I've recently started using an AHA BHA but it's still brutal since I just purchased some tretinoin after hearing all the anecdotals...

 

[Mongrelcel]

Ive noticed similar gains on aha bha ordinary i guess no sides with it? @Mongrelcel

can you please elab on AHA and BHA?

my first time hearning about it

 

[Deleted member 18840]

can you please elab on AHA and BHA?

my first time hearning about it

It basically peels the skin and has same properties as retin a. And i noticed similar results minus the sun sensitivity. And pro is that u can only use it 2-3x a week for optimal results. It just burns - feeling - more than tret

 

[Deleted member 18840]

can you please elab on AHA and BHA?

my first time hearning about it

Btw what can this condition lead to? Dry eyes stuff w tret? I mean in ur physical appeareance. I may have fucked myself over

 

[Mongrelcel]

Btw what can this condition lead to? Dry eyes stuff w tret? I mean in ur physical appeareance. I may have fucked myself over

none in your appearance, but if the condition progresses, and your glands are sufficiently destroyed, your life will become so fucking shit to live you won't even care about looks jfl

basically your eye will get dryer and dryer
the glands secrete oil that keeps the tear film thats over your cornea from evaporating
less oil or worse quality - the film evaporates faster, aka your eye will be dryer

 

[Deleted member 18840]

none in your appearance, but if the condition progresses, and your glands are sufficiently destroyed, your life will become so fucking shit to live you won't even care about looks jfl

What can it lead to?
My current skin is absolutely glowing irl. And naturally it is a top tier skin without tret. It just enhanced it. But i dunno if i will lose the glow.

 

[Mongrelcel]

@alienmaxxer thoughts?

 

[justbentbro]

you can't. I've applied every precaution yet it made my eyes dry. hopefully I didn't fuck the glands up too hard but it's hard to see

is your dry eye healed now? i got dry eye from this shit and it feels terrible

 

[justbentbro]

what is best way of curing this shit? i went to the doctor recenly and he prescribed me with some eye drops, but im pretty sure its cope that's not gonna do anyting

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

is your dry eye healed now? i got dry eye from this shit and it feels terrible

it's better but sometimes it's hard to tell as I look at the monitor a lot. that's why it was hard to detect in the first place. I assumed I just forgot to blink enough maybe I'll have it looked at by my brother's gf she's an eye doctor

what is best way of curing this shit? i went to the doctor recenly and he prescribed me with some eye drops, but im pretty sure its cope that's not gonna do anyting

did the nigga at least check ur glands

 

[justbentbro]

did the nigga at least check ur glands

yeah he said that its most likely dry eye syndrome also he said something about conjunctivitis and prescribed eye drops for that shit as well

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

yeah he said that its most likely dry eye syndrome also he said something about conjunctivitis and prescribed eye drops for that shit as well

they usually give some rating on the meibomian glands like this

 

[justbentbro]

they usually give some rating on the meibomian glands like this

yeah but it was just a fast checkup, it took only like 2 mins, im gonna use this stuff he prescribed me for 2 weeks, if it doesnt gets better im gonna go and do a full checkup and then we'll see how it goes, i fucking hope this shit is not permanent, most of the time it feels alright but there are days where it feels fucking terrible

 

[Deleted member 17918]

The Influence of 13-cis Retinoic Acid on Human Meibomian Gland Epithelial Cells

Meibomian gland dysfunction (MGD) is a primary cause of dry eye disease. One of the risk factors for MGD is exposure to 13-cis retinoic acid (13-cis RA), a metabolite of vitamin A. However, the mechanism is not well understood. We hypothesize that 13-cis ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

TLDR - retinoids kill the cells in meibomian glands, this is relatively well known

Tretinoin is very potent and also not selective in what receptors it targets in the skin. There are no studies to back this up as far as I know, but I think it's reasonable to believe that a less potent, more selective retinoid will be less problematic. Adapalene is one example, and it's available over the counter in the .1% strength. Trifarotene is the newest topical retinoid, and it's rx only. It's also the most selective (targets RAR-γ only). Interestingly enough, there's another RAR-γ selective retinoid that's in clinical trials to treat MGD (Palovarotene), and in one study (on mice only) this compound was shown not to negatively affect meibomian glands.

Does anyone know of somethine else, or how to get Aklief?

tret gave me such dry eyes after a week or so that I stopped, so I'm very interested in this topic. Thanks for thread

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

yeah but it was just a fast checkup, it took only like 2 mins, im gonna use this stuff he prescribed me for 2 weeks, if it doesnt gets better im gonna go and do a full checkup and then we'll see how it goes, i fucking hope this shit is not permanent, most of the time it feels alright but there are days where it feels fucking terrible

yeah ngl I got scared as fuck too nobody talks about this, only about the holes who've been doing it for 30 years and they seem to be fine right

 

[Deleted member 17918]

none in your appearance, but if the condition progresses, and your glands are sufficiently destroyed, your life will become so fucking shit to live you won't even care about looks jfl

basically your eye will get dryer and dryer
the glands secrete oil that keeps the tear film thats over your cornea from evaporating
less oil or worse quality - the film evaporates faster, aka your eye will be dryer

exactly. it scared me from continuing tret. but I really need that anti-aging. im a 26 yo oldcel

 

[justbentbro]

yeah ngl I got scared as fuck too nobody talks about this, only about the holes who've been doing it for 30 years and they seem to be fine right

yeah its weird, some people use half of the tube in one session and apply it anywhere on the face and they seem fine and others use it carefully and get these terrible side effects

 

[Soalian]

you can't. I've applied every precaution yet it made my eyes dry. hopefully I didn't fuck the glands up too hard but it's hard to see

have been using tretinoin for a few weeks, get a bit of dry eyes,

how do you visually check/tell if your Meibomian glands are damaged in any way?

 

[Mongrelcel]

have been using tretinoin for a few weeks, get a bit of dry eyes,

how do you visually check/tell if your Meibomian glands are damaged in any way?

only way to check is a procedure called meibography, you can't check yourself, are they working? if yes then they probably are in a good enough state

could be damaged tho, you have 32 glands and for normal function you only need less

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

have been using tretinoin for a few weeks, get a bit of dry eyes,

how do you visually check/tell if your Meibomian glands are damaged in any way?

it's hard to decide for yourself tbh, probably need an eye doctor for it. but you press a qtip on your eyelid and rotate it out and check if there are dense straight lines or fucked up squiggly ones

 

[Mongrelcel]

it's hard to decide for yourself tbh, probably need an eye doctor for it. but you press a qtip on your eyelid and rotate it out and check if there are dense straight lines or fucked up squiggly ones

won't be able to see

 

[Soalian]

only way to check is a procedure called meibography, you can't check yourself, are they working? if yes then they probably are in a good enough state

could be damaged tho, you have 32 glands and for normal function you only need less

By "working", do you have means of assessing this? like I can see with my eyes obviously, they look a bit dry and red however.

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

By "working", do you have means of assessing this? like I can see with my eyes obviously, they look a bit dry and red however.

another test they use is squeezing the gland and seeing how much stuff comes out

 

[Soalian]

another test they use is squeezing the gland and seeing how much stuff comes out

So if too much comes out it's basically MGD, right?

 

[Deleted member 20565]

idk man i guess you just cant get rid of acne without consequences

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

So if too much comes out it's basically MGD, right?

no nigga you want a good amount. too little is mgd

 

[Mongrelcel]

By "working", do you have means of assessing this? like I can see with my eyes obviously, they look a bit dry and red however.

if your eyes are dry, it could be damaged glands
if you do a warm compress, and your glands release lots of oil, they could have been mucked up with stale, bad oils
but really the only proper way of assessing is meibography like I said

another test they use is squeezing the gland and seeing how much stuff comes out

if his glands are fine, then nothing will come out as there is nothing obstructing the glands
chances are he wont even be able to use a proper techinque or have the tools for this

So if too much comes out it's basically MGD, right?

it would mean that your glands have been full of bad oil

no nigga you want a good amount. too little is mgd

no too little would mean perfectly fucntioning glands, because they release oil continously and there is nothing thats obstructing them to squeeze out

normal healthy oil in the glands is almost invisible, and is to fluid, that it comes out every time you blink