Is obesity a hormonal issue? Do Ameriburgers really eat too much?

[antiantifa]

Typical male chimp weighs 50 kg, female chimp weighs 40 kg. Averaged out it comes down to 45 kg.

Their daily caloric intake? About 2.5k - 3.5k kilocalories per day.

Average human weight of American at healthy BMI? 65kg.

The predicted human caloric intake based on chimp stats? 65/45 * 2500 till 65/45 * 3500 = 3600 - 5000 kilocalories per day. The average Ameriburger caloric intake? About 3600 kilocalories per day. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Not only that, but chimps are lazy creatures, they conserve energy as much as possible, humans have much higher metabolism than chimps do.
According to this fully retarded way of calculating my caloric intake I should be getting at least 85/45 * 2.5k till 85/45 * 3.5k = 5k - 6.5k kilocalories per day.

How much body-fat do chimps maintain? Male chimps have 0.005% body-fat. Female chimps have 3.6% body-fat.

What's the big difference between a human and a chimp diet? Chimps typically eat very low-protein and very low-fat diets, maxxing out in fiber and carbs.

Let's look at veganfags:



3.9% BODY-FAT DEXA-SCAN VERIFIED.

Interesting stuff is he doesn't do much gymcelling, yet clocks in at 20.5 FFMI which is very impressive for 3.9% body-fat on a dexa scan for someone who never trains hypertrophy or roids since it's known at low % body-fat u start to quickly lose muscle mass.

Also absolute mogger:

And this isn't just one dude, there is a whole Youtube series about vegans getting to dangerously low body-fat levels and just absolutely wreaking havoc on their bodies. A lot of them including the dude above develop some kind of mental illness, I suppose or perhaps they were already mentally ill to begin with.

So what to learn from this? Not caloric intake, but macro manipulation is important for body-fat control. On the one end there is the extreme unhealthy effects of modern diets leading to ridiculous levels of obesity, on the other there are vegans who simply don't eat enough and literally look like death itself.

IMO one has to somehow portion his macro's in such way to maintain leanness while maximizing muscle content.

 

[aspieSavage]

Nice scientific break through

 

[Ocelot]

possibly because carbs are less used in de novo lipogenesis, that is, production of new adipose tissue

a large percent of carbs are burned off as heat (dietary thermogenesis), unlike fat

still, CICO holds

 

[WadlowMaxxing]

protein and fiber have higher thermic effect sure but its dumbs down to calories absorbed vs calories expended. eating a higher thermic effect diet just burns more calories, same with having less calories absorbed, they don't avoid the basic principle. its interesting with vegans or any who are starved. your body has its own mechanisms and will nuke metabolism in response. I've experienced this and it wasn't nice, everything gets affected

 

[randomuser2407]

Durian Rider was on steroids, that is how he managed to maintain such a low body fat percentage, and that's not me calling him a fake natty, he said it himself that he was on steroids. Unless you plan on using the same steroids and doses as him, you shouldn't use him as an example.

Obesity isn't hormonal, it's due to genetics and environment mainly. Having a high appetite and an easier time gaining weight is a genetic trait, however, people shouldn't use it as an excuse to remain fat.

There are 2 reasons why fat people stay fat:
1) Because they don't know how to lose weight
2) Because they don't want to put in the effort and go through the discomfort of having to eat less and having to start exercising

As for Veganism:

Vegan diets are bad not because of the macronutrients, they are bad because vegan foods that are high in protein, are also high in fiber, so if you were to eat 150g of vegan protein, you'd end up with over 100g of fiber, which is just too much for most humans and it causes digestive issues like diarrhea, I know because I tried that diet for 1 year and it gave me a lot of digestive issues and even intense stomach pain at one point (felt like I was getting stabbed with a very sharp knife over and over from the inside.

And when you get diarrhea or loose stools from vegan foods, it means that you don't absorb most of the nutrients that you get from food, so all the protein, the vitamins and minerals go to waste, so you end up with only calories, this is why most vegans are malnourished.
The only vegans who aren't malnourished are those who have strong enough digestion to not get sick with all that fiber. But even then, in most cases, it's because they use supplements to make it easier to digest their foods.

 

[antiantifa]

possibly because carbs are less used in de novo lipogenesis, that is, production of new adipose tissue

a large percent of carbs are burned off as heat (dietary thermogenesis), unlike fat

still, CICO holds

protein and fiber have higher thermic effect sure but its dumbs down to calories absorbed vs calories expended. eating a higher thermic effect diet just burns more calories, same with having less calories absorbed, they don't avoid the basic principle. its interesting with vegans or any who are starved. your body has its own mechanisms and will nuke metabolism in response. I've experienced this and it wasn't nice, everything gets affected

Not exactly. It depends on the P/C ratio. Here's a good study:

Comparing the Effects of Low-Protein and High-Carbohydrate Diets and Caloric Restriction on Brain Aging in Mice

Calorie restriction (CR) and ad libitum low-protein, high-carbohydrate (LPHC) diets improve cardiometabolic health in mice. Wahl et al. show that, like healthspan, CR and LPHC diets positively affect hippocampus biology in mice by influencing hippocampus ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Bascally 5% P/C ratio is associated with browning of white fat presumably caused by adregenic beta receptor action.

This study is important to look at because the group with 15% and 10% protein had the most fat mass. While the group with 20%+ protein and 5% protein had the least. The biggest issue was the low-protein group losing lean mass.

That suggests that best dietary approach is either having meals/days with 5% protein intake or having meals very high in protein. It's probably important to eat rich sources of protein here and there, even chimps eat insects and even small animals sometimes.

It's funny because this copies nature exactly, in nature you will almost only find high-carb low-protein food or high-protein high-fat low-carb food. Typically I'd imagine a hunter-gatherer would mostly eat plants and occasionally eat a whole animal whole.

 

[antiantifa]

Durian Rider was on steroids, that is how he managed to maintain such a low body fat percentage, and that's not me calling him a fake natty, he said it himself that he was on steroids. Unless you plan on using the same steroids and doses as him, you shouldn't use him as an example.

Obesity isn't hormonal, it's due to genetics and environment mainly. Having a high appetite and an easier time gaining weight is a genetic trait, however, people shouldn't use it as an excuse to remain fat.

There are 2 reasons why fat people stay fat:
1) Because they don't know how to lose weight
2) Because they don't want to put in the effort and go through the discomfort of having to eat less and having to start exercising

As for Veganism:

Vegan diets are bad not because of the macronutrients, they are bad because vegan foods that are high in protein, are also high in fiber, so if you were to eat 150g of vegan protein, you'd end up with over 100g of fiber, which is just too much for most humans and it causes digestive issues like diarrhea, I know because I tried that diet for 1 year and it gave me a lot of digestive issues and even intense stomach pain at one point (felt like I was getting stabbed with a very sharp knife over and over from the inside.

And when you get diarrhea or loose stools from vegan foods, it means that you don't absorb most of the nutrients that you get from food, so all the protein, the vitamins and minerals go to waste, so you end up with only calories, this is why most vegans are malnourished.
The only vegans who aren't malnourished are those who have strong enough digestion to not get sick with all that fiber. But even then, in most cases, it's because they use supplements to make it easier to digest their foods.

Disagree.

1) There are 6 videos on vegans obtaining seemingly impossible levels of low body-fat albeit with some brain damage involved.

2) I eat a fuck-ton of fiber and I don't have loose stools or diarrhea. If anything my shit quality is top-notch and it all looks properly digested. I basically live on yoghurt, oats, banana's, lentils, high-fiber bread, meat, vegetables, mushrooms and cheese. I eat about 50g of fiber per day.

I do agree that raw veganism = undernourishment, but IMO mostly because of lack of protein intake and fat, not because of some kind of indigestion of the fiber. They just need to eat meat a few times per week and eat some yogurt.

 

[Deleted member 12146]

A lot of them are bulimic or exercise like crazy too. Some of them just are starving to death from lack of nutrients

 

[antiantifa]

A lot of them are bulimic or exercise like crazy too. Some of them just are starving to death from lack of nutrients

Yeah but you can't deny the obvious muscle loss from the vegan diets low in protein tbh. Specifically the fruit-only.

 

[SkinjobCatastrophe]

Chimps and humans are different and have totally different diets. If a person ate a chimp diet it would be shit for them. The reason americans are obese is not a mystery. They eat too much, specifically they eat too many carbs and excess carbs are not used by the body so they are stored as fat

 

[antiantifa]

Chimps and humans are different and have totally different diets. If a person ate a chimp diet it would be shit for them. The reason americans are obese is not a mystery. They eat too much, specifically they eat too many carbs and excess carbs are not used by the body so they are stored as fat

Low IQ tbh, excess fat and carbs both stored as fat. Also you didn't read my thread. Chimps have lower metabolism than humans, eat relatively more calories per kg than humans and maintain an astonishing 0.005% body-fat. Maybe reply with more effort?

And chimps are able to become obese, if fed the normal human diet. The reverse looks true too, severe malnutrition and low body-fat from extreme vegan diets.

 

[randomuser2407]

Disagree.

1) There are 6 videos on vegans obtaining seemingly impossible levels of low body-fat albeit with some brain damage involved.

2) I eat a fuck-ton of fiber and I don't have loose stools or diarrhea. If anything my shit quality is top-notch and it all looks properly digested. I basically live on yoghurt, oats, banana's, lentils, high-fiber bread, meat, vegetables, mushrooms and cheese. I eat about 50g of fiber per day.

I do agree that raw veganism = undernourishment, but IMO mostly because of lack of protein intake and fat, not because of some kind of indigestion of the fiber. They just need to eat meat a few times per week and eat some yogurt.

You're not a vegan then. Vegans don't eat yoghurt, meat or cheese, since those are animal products.

If you were a vegan, you would have to eat only fruits, vegetables, legumes and grains. And on that diet, I guarantee that your fiber intake would be much higher.

50g of fiber is easy to digest, I get 40g myself, but 100g is very difficult to digest, and some vegans will claim that they get enough protein without eating 100g of fiber but they are lying because 50g of fiber on a vegan diet would be around 70-80g of protein, and that isn't enough to recover from hard workouts. A person eating so little protein would never be able to gymmax. And if they were to eat double this amount, it wouldn't be digested, because of the fiber, like I said before.

This is why vegan diets don't work. The only people who can get away with low protein intakes are those who don't lift weights.

 

[SkinjobCatastrophe]

Low IQ tbh, excess fat and carbs both stored as fat. Also you didn't read my thread. Chimps have lower metabolism than humans, eat relatively more calories per kg than humans and maintain an astonishing 0.005% body-fat. Maybe reply with more effort?

And chimps are able to become obese, if fed the normal human diet. The reverse looks true too, severe malnutrition and low body-fat from extreme vegan diets.

So what are you trying to say? Obviously I'm missing something

 

[antiantifa]

You're not a vegan then. Vegans don't eat yoghurt, meat or cheese, since those are animal products.

If you were a vegan, you would have to eat only fruits, vegetables, legumes and grains. And on that diet, I guarantee that your fiber intake would be much higher.

50g of fiber is easy to digest, I get 40g myself, but 100g is very difficult to digest, and some vegans will claim that they get enough protein without eating 100g of fiber but they are lying because 50g of fiber on a vegan diet would be around 70-80g of protein, and that isn't enough to recover from hard workouts. A person eating so little protein would never be able to gymmax. And if they were to eat double this amount, it wouldn't be digested, because of the fiber, like I said before.

This is why vegan diets don't work. The only people who can get away with low protein intakes are those who don't lift weights.

Idk, man, sometimes I'll eat 6 green banana's for the potassium, no problem with digestion. Supposedly green bananas are up to 30-40% fiber because of resistant starch.

And vegan diets do work, lol. I just posted extreme examples of fruitarian diets. Vegans on average maintain about 21 BMI which is pretty good.

But IMO my goal is to find a diet to maximize muscle mass/minimize muscle loss while maximizing fat loss.

I think my theory that the fruitarians are just protein deprived makes more sense. Also most of them seem to be consuming juiced supermarket fruit which is low in fiber.

And I never claimed to be vegan.

 

[antiantifa]

So what are you trying to say? Obviously I'm missing something

Maybe there is a diet, where even with unlimited access to calories, you can maintain low body-fat and high muscle mass, by cycling through a period of low protein high carb low fat diet(5-90-5 P/C/F) ratio and then cycling through a period of high meat intake, about 20-5-75 ratio of P/C/F.

Protein pulsing is a thing and it's been studied in mice as well for it's longevity effects.

This is based on the study I posted showing lowest fat mass for 5% protein intake and >=20% protein intake, while highest fat mass for 15% and 10% protein intake. All ad libitum ofc.

 

[antiantifa]

Similar to what this foid did. Went long-term vegan, lost too much weight, went full meat, regained her muscle mass. Boom now she's a lean foid with thick legs.

Why can't I do the same but on a micro scale. Also JFL at her fucking stupidity, she went from one extreme to the other. Stupid ass bitch. In 5 years she'll go vegan again and claim it's the best thing ever. Then go meat again, claiming it's the best thing ever, etc....

 

[Mongrelcel]

imo its a cultural issue

 

[randomuser2407]

Idk, man, sometimes I'll eat 6 green banana's for the potassium, no problem with digestion. Supposedly green bananas are up to 30-40% fiber because of resistant starch.

And vegan diets do work, lol. I just posted extreme examples of fruitarian diets. Vegans on average maintain about 21 BMI which is pretty good.

But IMO my goal is to find a diet to maximize muscle mass/minimize muscle loss while maximizing fat loss.

I think my theory that the fruitarians are just protein deprived makes more sense. Also most of them seem to be consuming juiced supermarket fruit which is low in fiber.

And I never claimed to be vegan.

This is a contradiction. You can't claim that vegan diets work if you're not even a vegan yourself, because vegan diets are a very controversial topic, not a widely accepted thing. Vegans are not normal and they will never be.

You're just brainwashed because of the vegans that you watch online. I know because I made the same mistake myself before trying it myself.

 

[randomuser2407]

Similar to what this foid did. Went long-term vegan, lost too much weight, went full meat, regained her muscle mass. Boom now she's a lean foid with thick legs.

Why can't I do the same but on a micro scale. Also JFL at her fucking stupidity, she went from one extreme to the other. Stupid ass bitch. In 5 years she'll go vegan again and claim it's the best thing ever. Then go meat again, claiming it's the best thing ever, etc....

That's such a dumb idea. You don't need to go vegan to lose weight you idiot!

You just need a 20% caloric deficit and some self control.

Track your calories, and aim for 2 lbs of fat loss per week, and in a few months, you'll be at the weight that you want and without losing any muscle and without putting your health at risk.

 

[antiantifa]

imo its a cultural issue

Seems to be spreading

This is a contradiction. You can't claim that vegan diets work if you're not even a vegan yourself, because vegan diets are a very controversial topic, not a widely accepted thing. Vegans are not normal and they will never be.

You're just brainwashed because of the vegans that you watch online. I know because I made the same mistake myself before trying it myself.

You're literally retarded:

RESULTS. Mean BMI was lowest in vegans (23.6 kg/m2) and incrementally higher in lacto-ovo vegetarians (25.7 kg/m2), pesco-vegetarians (26.3 kg/m2), semi-vegetarians (27.3 kg/m2), and nonvegetarians (28.8 kg/m2).

23.6 is still a lot for normies with no muscle mass, that's very skinny-fat.

Either way it's not even the topic of the conversation. I don't even care vegan or not.

I am saying potentially a diet where for 3 days you eat only high carb low protein low fat, then 1 day you eat meat only all kinds of organs, etc...

This potentially may utilize the best of both worlds.

The protein sparing effect of high-protein diet and the fat loss effect of the low-protein diet.

 

[antiantifa]

That's such a dumb idea. You don't need to go vegan to lose weight you idiot!

You just need a 20% caloric deficit and some self control.

Track your calories, and aim for 2 lbs of fat loss per week, and in a few months, you'll be at the weight that you want and without losing any muscle and without putting your health at risk.

I'm not trying to lose weight, I'm trying to improve muscle/fat ratio without roids. I am at the point where losing any fat results in muscle loss instead. am actually trying to bulk.

And I am not planning to go vegan, dude. Start reading my shit seriously, please. I am proposing a diet of alternating between high-carb, low-protein and low-fat and high-protein, high-fat and low-carb.

Do you understand?

I would be eating liver, eggs, cheese, yoghurt, meat like every week how the fuck would I be vegan?

 

[antiantifa]

My eyes are too tired g2g sleep, later.

 

[Deleted member 8080]

If u r fatcel do keto, is all i know

 

[randomuser2407]

Seems to be spreading

You're literally retarded:


23.6 is still a lot for normies with no muscle mass, that's very skinny-fat.

Either way it's not even the topic of the conversation. I don't even care vegan or not.

I am saying potentially a diet where for 3 days you eat only high carb low protein low fat, then 1 day you eat meat only all kinds of organs, etc...

This potentially may utilize the best of both worlds.

The protein sparing effect of high-protein diet and the fat loss effect of the low-protein diet.

As a former fan of Vegan Gains, I know that vegans do love shoving their studies and statistics into people's faces. What you don't realize is that the studies can be easily misinterpreted.

Veganism is a cult and that is true even when they use studies because you can find studies that say that veganism is bad too, and then, how would you know which one is true? The answer is simple: you wouldn't.

Also, fad diets simply don't work, the most effective thing for weight management is calories in vs calories out, and if you are trying to gain muscle, protein also matters, and if you want to be really healthy, then track your micronutrients also (vitamins and minerals).

There is no magic to fat loss or muscle gain, but you'll find lots of books and people online who would like you to believe that there is a special trick, just so they can sell you something that will get you nowhere. The answer is so simple that they can't just tell you, they'd rather hide the truth so they can make money from your suffering.

 

[randomuser2407]

If u r fatcel do keto, is all i know

keto is retarded, without carbs, you won't have the energy to go through your workouts.

This is why fad diets don't work, your body needs everything, it can't just rely on one food source, one type of food or one type of macros, it needs everything. Sure, carbs have more calories than protein, but carbs also have more fiber and carbs themselves give you energy.

So a lack of carbs can lead to a lack of fiber which will cause constipation.
The vegan diet is the opposite of keto, since it is a very high carb diet, so they have the opposite problem since they eat too much fiber.

 

[Deleted member 8080]

keto is retarded, without carbs, you won't have the energy to go through your workouts.

This is why fad diets don't work, your body needs everything, it can't just rely on one food source, one type of food or one type of macros, it needs everything. Sure, carbs have more calories than protein, but carbs also have more fiber and carbs themselves give you energy.

So a lack of carbs can lead to a lack of fiber which will cause constipation.
The vegan diet is the opposite of keto, since it is a very high carb diet, so they have the opposite problem since they eat too much fiber.

U dont need carbs for working out . Ur body still works in ketosis. Also u can have fiber with low carb veggies bruh

 

[Deleted member 7651]

you cant compare chimpanzees to humans you retard , chimps have evolved to living on trees and always having food , all those carbs go straight to the muscle , we have evolved to eat meat and survive periods of famine like in winter so we turn excess energy into fat , as simple as that . Of course hormones play a role and macronutrients are important , but hormones are chemical messengers so based on what you do and what you eat you will either trigger anabolic or catabolic hormones

 

[spark]

Typical male chimp weighs 50 kg, female chimp weighs 40 kg. Averaged out it comes down to 45 kg.

Their daily caloric intake? About 2.5k - 3.5k kilocalories per day.

Average human weight of American at healthy BMI? 65kg.

The predicted human caloric intake based on chimp stats? 65/45 * 2500 till 65/45 * 3500 = 3600 - 5000 kilocalories per day. The average Ameriburger caloric intake? About 3600 kilocalories per day. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Not only that, but chimps are lazy creatures, they conserve energy as much as possible, humans have much higher metabolism than chimps do.
According to this fully retarded way of calculating my caloric intake I should be getting at least 85/45 * 2.5k till 85/45 * 3.5k = 5k - 6.5k kilocalories per day.

How much body-fat do chimps maintain? Male chimps have 0.005% body-fat. Female chimps have 3.6% body-fat.

What's the big difference between a human and a chimp diet? Chimps typically eat very low-protein and very low-fat diets, maxxing out in fiber and carbs.

Let's look at veganfags:



3.9% BODY-FAT DEXA-SCAN VERIFIED.

Interesting stuff is he doesn't do much gymcelling, yet clocks in at 20.5 FFMI which is very impressive for 3.9% body-fat on a dexa scan for someone who never trains hypertrophy or roids since it's known at low % body-fat u start to quickly lose muscle mass.

Also absolute mogger:

And this isn't just one dude, there is a whole Youtube series about vegans getting to dangerously low body-fat levels and just absolutely wreaking havoc on their bodies. A lot of them including the dude above develop some kind of mental illness, I suppose or perhaps they were already mentally ill to begin with.



View attachment 968171


So what to learn from this? Not caloric intake, but macro manipulation is important for body-fat control. On the one end there is the extreme unhealthy effects of modern diets leading to ridiculous levels of obesity, on the other there are vegans who simply don't eat enough and literally look like death itself.

IMO one has to somehow portion his macro's in such way to maintain leanness while maximizing muscle content.

His total body fat was 5.4 kg so his bf at 70.4 kg was 7.7%

NOT 3.9

 

[randomuser2407]

U dont need carbs for working out . Ur body still works in ketosis. Also u can have fiber with low carb veggies bruh

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Vegetables don't have nearly enough fiber to be enough for your fiber intake.

According to the health guidelines, men need 38g of fiber per day, and if you were to reach that with vegetables alone, you would need to consume 1.6kg of cooked spinach, but even then, you would be overdosing on Vitamin K and Iron, which isn't a safe thing to do.

And the whole ketosis thing is a complete lie told by people who want to sell you stuff, if you have enough energy to lift heavy on a low carb diet, it's because your workouts aren't intense enough, if you really push yourself and you don't eat enough carbs, you'll start to feel nauseous and sick, because not eating enough carbs can lead to hypoglycemia. This is why carbs are actually more important than protein and fat.

This is why certified dieticians recommend high carb diets with a healthy amount of fat and protein, because the body runs on carbs. Fats only matter for hormonal functions and protein only matters for muscle recovery and retention.

 

[Deleted member 10185]

everything is cheap in Usa.. School also sell shit product...

 

[Deleted member 8080]

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

Vegetables don't have nearly enough fiber to be enough for your fiber intake.

According to the health guidelines, men need 38g of fiber per day, and if you were to reach that with vegetables alone, you would need to consume 1.6kg of cooked spinach, but even then, you would be overdosing on Vitamin K and Iron, which isn't a safe thing to do.

And the whole ketosis thing is a complete lie told by people who want to sell you stuff, if you have enough energy to lift heavy on a low carb diet, it's because your workouts aren't intense enough, if you really push yourself and you don't eat enough carbs, you'll start to feel nauseous and sick, because not eating enough carbs can lead to hypoglycemia. This is why carbs are actually more important than protein and fat.

This is why certified dieticians recommend high carb diets with a healthy amount of fat and protein, because the body runs on carbs. Fats only matter for hormonal functions and protein only matters for muscle recovery and retention.

vegetables dont have fiber? bruh wtf
and wdym sell u stfu. tf do u sell with keto? r u suggesting the pig fat, meat, olive oil and veggies industries r conspiring against science?
The body runs on carbs if u want it to. it can run on carbs. that's y we have insulin. but it wasn't made to be taking in sugar and processed carbs so often like we do. eventually we develop insulin resistance and become fat.
u can also run on fat. that's y we have ketones in our body

 

[Deleted member 4612]

Americans eat fast food and work office jobs where they sit on their ass all day. Then on the weekend they watch sportsball and sip on coca cola and dr pepper alongside their mcdonalds

so thats why americans are fat

 

[randomuser2407]

vegetables dont have fiber? bruh wtf
and wdym sell u stfu. tf do u sell with keto? r u suggesting the pig fat, meat, olive oil and veggies industries r conspiring against science?
The body runs on carbs if u want it to. it can run on carbs. that's y we have insulin. but it wasn't made to be taking in sugar and processed carbs so often like we do. eventually we develop insulin resistance and become fat.
u can also run on fat. that's y we have ketones in our body

I mean that the authors who sell you books on the keto diet are just trying to make money, their goal wasn't to inform the masses, it was to spread lies to make money off of gimmicks because the average person is a moron who will believe in such lies.

Vegetables do have fiber but not enough, to get 40g of fiber, you would need to be eating a lot of grains because that is the best way to get it. If you don't believe me, just track your veggie intake for a day and try to reach 40g of fiber with only veggies, you'll find that it's very difficult to do so.

And again, this whole idea of the conspiracy against carbs is a lie told by the keto scammers. People have been eating grains like rice, oats, and pasta for hundreds of years, it's not a new thing, people have always been on a high carb diet since forever, it's the most natural thing ever.

Processed doesn't mean unhealthy and natural doesn't mean healthy, what matters is not how the food was made but the ingredients used, always look at the ingredients, not just the nutrition facts.

Nobody just develops insulin resistance, nobody just becomes diabetic, it can only happen if you eat a ton of high fructose corn syrup, either in pure form or through unhealthy food such as candy, but again, it's not because of their carb content that they are bad.

Carbs don't make people diabetic, only an extremely high sugar intake can cause this problem, but even those who eat more sugar than they should won't face this problem, you'd have to be eating enormous amounts of sugar every day to become diabetic from it.

 

[Deleted member 8080]

I mean that the authors who sell you books on the keto diet are just trying to make money, their goal wasn't to inform the masses, it was to spread lies to make money off of gimmicks because the average person is a moron who will believe in such lies.

Vegetables do have fiber but not enough, to get 40g of fiber, you would need to be eating a lot of grains because that is the best way to get it. If you don't believe me, just track your veggie intake for a day and try to reach 40g of fiber with only veggies, you'll find that it's very difficult to do so.

And again, this whole idea of the conspiracy against carbs is a lie told by the keto scammers. People have been eating grains like rice, oats, and pasta for hundreds of years, it's not a new thing, people have always been on a high carb diet since forever, it's the most natural thing ever.

Processed doesn't mean unhealthy and natural doesn't mean healthy, what matters is not how the food was made but the ingredients used, always look at the ingredients, not just the nutrition facts.

Nobody just develops insulin resistance, nobody just becomes diabetic, it can only happen if you eat a ton of high fructose corn syrup, either in pure form or through unhealthy food such as candy, but again, it's not because of their carb content that they are bad.

Carbs don't make people diabetic, only an extremely high sugar intake can cause this problem, but even those who eat more sugar than they should won't face this problem, you'd have to be eating enormous amounts of sugar every day to become diabetic from it.

tldr tbh keep writing essays kiddo

 

[randomuser2407]

tldr tbh keep writing essays kiddo

Keep believing in scams and gimmicks made to keep you fat and miserable.

Anybody who really knows this subject would laugh at your level of ignorance and stupidity.

 

[antiantifa]

As a former fan of Vegan Gains, I know that vegans do love shoving their studies and statistics into people's faces. What you don't realize is that the studies can be easily misinterpreted.

Veganism is a cult and that is true even when they use studies because you can find studies that say that veganism is bad too, and then, how would you know which one is true? The answer is simple: you wouldn't.

Also, fad diets simply don't work, the most effective thing for weight management is calories in vs calories out, and if you are trying to gain muscle, protein also matters, and if you want to be really healthy, then track your micronutrients also (vitamins and minerals).

There is no magic to fat loss or muscle gain, but you'll find lots of books and people online who would like you to believe that there is a special trick, just so they can sell you something that will get you nowhere. The answer is so simple that they can't just tell you, they'd rather hide the truth so they can make money from your suffering.

I mean that the authors who sell you books on the keto diet are just trying to make money, their goal wasn't to inform the masses, it was to spread lies to make money off of gimmicks because the average person is a moron who will believe in such lies.

Vegetables do have fiber but not enough, to get 40g of fiber, you would need to be eating a lot of grains because that is the best way to get it. If you don't believe me, just track your veggie intake for a day and try to reach 40g of fiber with only veggies, you'll find that it's very difficult to do so.

And again, this whole idea of the conspiracy against carbs is a lie told by the keto scammers. People have been eating grains like rice, oats, and pasta for hundreds of years, it's not a new thing, people have always been on a high carb diet since forever, it's the most natural thing ever.

Processed doesn't mean unhealthy and natural doesn't mean healthy, what matters is not how the food was made but the ingredients used, always look at the ingredients, not just the nutrition facts.

Nobody just develops insulin resistance, nobody just becomes diabetic, it can only happen if you eat a ton of high fructose corn syrup, either in pure form or through unhealthy food such as candy, but again, it's not because of their carb content that they are bad.

Carbs don't make people diabetic, only an extremely high sugar intake can cause this problem, but even those who eat more sugar than they should won't face this problem, you'd have to be eating enormous amounts of sugar every day to become diabetic from it.

Idk, meng. I don't like vegans either, I think they need a bit of meat, but I am sure veganism works for weight loss and is better for the average obese American.

And I agree that carbs > fat for insulin control.

 

[antiantifa]

His total body fat was 5.4 kg so his bf at 70.4 kg was 7.7%

NOT 3.9

Actually it was 3.9, you were looking at the wrong table. All his legs, trunk, arm values were like 3.2, 3.7, 4.2 so averaged out it should be around 3.9 nowhere near 7.7

 

[MansNotHot]

Humans are fat because of nutrition not because of physical activity or hormonal issues.
We evolved to stuff ourselves of surgary and fatty food because it's the most calorie dense.
Calorie density can save humans from starvation.

 

[MansNotHot]

The skinny cucks would die fast as fuck in real nature

 

[Gaia262]

Typical male chimp weighs 50 kg, female chimp weighs 40 kg. Averaged out it comes down to 45 kg.

Their daily caloric intake? About 2.5k - 3.5k kilocalories per day.

Average human weight of American at healthy BMI? 65kg.

The predicted human caloric intake based on chimp stats? 65/45 * 2500 till 65/45 * 3500 = 3600 - 5000 kilocalories per day. The average Ameriburger caloric intake? About 3600 kilocalories per day. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Not only that, but chimps are lazy creatures, they conserve energy as much as possible, humans have much higher metabolism than chimps do.
According to this fully retarded way of calculating my caloric intake I should be getting at least 85/45 * 2.5k till 85/45 * 3.5k = 5k - 6.5k kilocalories per day.

How much body-fat do chimps maintain? Male chimps have 0.005% body-fat. Female chimps have 3.6% body-fat.

What's the big difference between a human and a chimp diet? Chimps typically eat very low-protein and very low-fat diets, maxxing out in fiber and carbs.

Let's look at veganfags:



3.9% BODY-FAT DEXA-SCAN VERIFIED.

Interesting stuff is he doesn't do much gymcelling, yet clocks in at 20.5 FFMI which is very impressive for 3.9% body-fat on a dexa scan for someone who never trains hypertrophy or roids since it's known at low % body-fat u start to quickly lose muscle mass.

Also absolute mogger:

And this isn't just one dude, there is a whole Youtube series about vegans getting to dangerously low body-fat levels and just absolutely wreaking havoc on their bodies. A lot of them including the dude above develop some kind of mental illness, I suppose or perhaps they were already mentally ill to begin with.



View attachment 968171


So what to learn from this? Not caloric intake, but macro manipulation is important for body-fat control. On the one end there is the extreme unhealthy effects of modern diets leading to ridiculous levels of obesity, on the other there are vegans who simply don't eat enough and literally look like death itself.

IMO one has to somehow portion his macro's in such way to maintain leanness while maximizing muscle content.

Read this bro.

Honestly it feels the obesity epidemic is not due to natural overeating but hormone imbalance, pollutants and chemical toxicity.

@everythingmatters So much shit in the food from preservatives to aritifical flavourings to MSG. Pestacides, metals , plastic all in the food Food not having the nutrient content it used to have High carb processed food in every meal spiking insulin The water you drink is packed with...

looksmax.org

 

[antiantifa]

Read this bro.

Honestly it feels the obesity epidemic is not due to natural overeating but hormone imbalance, pollutants and chemical toxicity.

@everythingmatters So much shit in the food from preservatives to aritifical flavourings to MSG. Pestacides, metals , plastic all in the food Food not having the nutrient content it used to have High carb processed food in every meal spiking insulin The water you drink is packed with...

looksmax.org

Not bad theory, but no science behind it.

 

[randomvanish]

Their daily caloric intake? About 2.5k - 3.5k kilocalories per day.

no.
have you ever watch tlc ? they eat shit tons of junk food. giant hamburgers after giant milkshakes with giant cokes etc.

us is something different. even their creams has incredible high sugar, glicose. not like europe.

 

[antiantifa]

no.
have you ever watch tlc ? they eat shit tons of junk food. giant hamburgers after giant milkshakes with giant cokes etc.

us is something different. even their creams has incredible high sugar, glicose. not like europe.

"Location Czech-Republic"
Explains your lack of ability of properly reading English.

THE MONKEYS HAVE 2.5k - 3.5k KILOCALORIES, NOT THE AMERICANS.

"The average Ameriburger caloric intake? About 3600 kilocalories per day. Coincidence? I don't think so."

 

[randomvanish]

"Location Czech-Republic"
Explains your lack of ability of properly reading English.

THE MONKEYS HAVE 2.5k - 3.5k KILOCALORIES, NOT THE AMERICANS.

"The average Ameriburger caloric intake? About 3600 kilocalories per day. Coincidence? I don't think so."

damn bro you broke my heart. i was busy

 

[spark]

Actually it was 3.9, you were looking at the wrong table. All his legs, trunk, arm values were like 3.2, 3.7, 4.2 so averaged out it should be around 3.9 nowhere near 7.7

The document said his total fat was 5.4 KG. That is 7.7% bf.

 

[Deleted member 9090]

Low IQ tbh, excess fat and carbs both stored as fat. Also you didn't read my thread. Chimps have lower metabolism than humans, eat relatively more calories per kg than humans and maintain an astonishing 0.005% body-fat. Maybe reply with more effort?

And chimps are able to become obese, if fed the normal human diet. The reverse looks true too, severe malnutrition and low body-fat from extreme vegan diets.

the reason chimps can consume a higher caloric intake and be lower body fat has to do with their anatomy.

the comparison between humans and chimps or other apes is always a bad comparison, because our digestive tract is entirely different.

our digestive tract is similar to that of wolves, dogs and other hunters which are known for having a very short digestive tract.

another reason they (chimps) can eat a ''higher'' amount of calories is because their diet consists of mostly fiber foods, which are extremely hard to digest for humans.

this is also why even when you eat enough calories as a vegan you are still hungry/become malnourished. its because our body cant absorb the calories from plant foods even though on paper it might look like you consume all the necessary nutrients (macro and micro).

aka follow my diet guide for optimal health, which goes in depth to what our ancestors ate and what our diet in modern times should look like.

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-epi...w-attractive-you-will-be.258998/#post-4449809

 

[Bewusst]

Typical male chimp weighs 50 kg, female chimp weighs 40 kg. Averaged out it comes down to 45 kg.

Their daily caloric intake? About 2.5k - 3.5k kilocalories per day.

Average human weight of American at healthy BMI? 65kg.

The predicted human caloric intake based on chimp stats? 65/45 * 2500 till 65/45 * 3500 = 3600 - 5000 kilocalories per day. The average Ameriburger caloric intake? About 3600 kilocalories per day. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Not only that, but chimps are lazy creatures, they conserve energy as much as possible, humans have much higher metabolism than chimps do.
According to this fully retarded way of calculating my caloric intake I should be getting at least 85/45 * 2.5k till 85/45 * 3.5k = 5k - 6.5k kilocalories per day.

How much body-fat do chimps maintain? Male chimps have 0.005% body-fat. Female chimps have 3.6% body-fat.

What's the big difference between a human and a chimp diet? Chimps typically eat very low-protein and very low-fat diets, maxxing out in fiber and carbs.

Let's look at veganfags:



3.9% BODY-FAT DEXA-SCAN VERIFIED.

Interesting stuff is he doesn't do much gymcelling, yet clocks in at 20.5 FFMI which is very impressive for 3.9% body-fat on a dexa scan for someone who never trains hypertrophy or roids since it's known at low % body-fat u start to quickly lose muscle mass.

Also absolute mogger:

And this isn't just one dude, there is a whole Youtube series about vegans getting to dangerously low body-fat levels and just absolutely wreaking havoc on their bodies. A lot of them including the dude above develop some kind of mental illness, I suppose or perhaps they were already mentally ill to begin with.



View attachment 968171


So what to learn from this? Not caloric intake, but macro manipulation is important for body-fat control. On the one end there is the extreme unhealthy effects of modern diets leading to ridiculous levels of obesity, on the other there are vegans who simply don't eat enough and literally look like death itself.

IMO one has to somehow portion his macro's in such way to maintain leanness while maximizing muscle content.

I did high carb, very low fat and low protein for a while while eating as many carbohydrates as I wanted. No oils, no dairy, no meat, just fruits, sugar, rice, veggies, beans, honey etc.
Guess what? I gained weight.

De novo lipogenesis in humans is quite inefficient according to several studies so I tried if eating as little fat as possible and as many carbs/sugar as I want - above my TDEE - would prevent or keep fat gain to a minimum. It didn‘t. Maybe it would work if you ate zero fat (which means everything would have to be processed since every unprocessed food has some amount of fat) but you’d get sick eventually due to lack of EFAs. The first law of thermodynamics can‘t be bypassed. It always applies.

Also, don‘t forget that wild monkeys are much more active than us. They don‘t sit on their butts all day long like we do; at work/school, on the couch, in the bus, at the Dr.‘s office and likely burn more on average, despite being smaller and weighing less. Durianrider is a very active person too.

 

[antiantifa]

The document said his total fat was 5.4 KG. That is 7.7% bf.

True, but the body-fat is also shown as 3.9% on the document and the automatic software graph above puts his point slightly below 5%, so I think it's 3.9% in the end, but not sure.

the reason chimps can consume a higher caloric intake and be lower body fat has to do with their anatomy.

the comparison between humans and chimps or other apes is always a bad comparison, because our digestive tract is entirely different.

our digestive tract is similar to that of wolves, dogs and other hunters which are known for having a very short digestive tract.

another reason they (chimps) can eat a ''higher'' amount of calories is because their diet consists of mostly fiber foods, which are extremely hard to digest for humans.

this is also why even when you eat enough calories as a vegan you are still hungry/become malnourished. its because our body cant absorb the calories from plant foods even though on paper it might look like you consume all the necessary nutrients (macro and micro).

aka follow my diet guide for optimal health, which goes in depth to what our ancestors ate and what our diet in modern times should look like.

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-epi...w-attractive-you-will-be.258998/#post-4449809

What results have your diet brought to you?

I did high carb, very low fat and low protein for a while while eating as many carbohydrates as I wanted. No oils, no dairy, no meat, just fruits, sugar, rice, veggies, beans, honey etc.
Guess what? I gained weight.

De novo lipogenesis in humans is quite inefficient according to several studies so I tried if eating as little fat as possible and as many carbs/sugar as I want - above my TDEE - would prevent or keep fat gain to a minimum. It didn‘t. Maybe it would work if you ate zero fat (which means everything would have to be processed since every unprocessed food has some amount of fat) but you’d get sick eventually due to lack of EFAs. The first law of thermodynamics can‘t be bypassed. It always applies.

Also, don‘t forget that wild monkeys are much more active than us. They don‘t sit on their butts all day long like we do; at work/school, on the couch, in the bus, at the Dr.‘s office and likely burn more on average, despite being smaller and weighing less. Durianrider is a very active person too.

What type of food did you eat my friend?

I bet your protein intake wasn't low, I bet you ate exactly around 10-15% protein intake which is the most fattening according to the study I posted.

For example pasta, corn, grains, bread, lentils, beans and rice are all around 10-17% protein which is the most fattening. You should've only consumed fruit, honey, jam, edible leaves, edible flowers and some edible greens ideally to achieve the effects I am describing.

So you case isn't special at all, you should've gained fat and accordingly, so you did.

And no, monkeys are not as active as us, they are very lazy. Now I don't doubt that they are more active than most people, but compared to me and pre-historic humans they are definitely not more active. I sprint every-day, lift weights, walk for hours and my brain burns way more metabolism than theirs does. As I said before it's proven that per kg humans have higher metabolism than monkeys.

Also I don't care about fat intake, as long as it's less than 20% it doesn't matter in this case as the study gave the mice 20% fat composition in all cases. I personally eat around 5-10% fat in my macros and I find it's the best for blood flow and erections for me, everyone is different though.

TL;DR Your argument actually proves the study, you ate 10-15% protein and gained fat, according to the study that's exactly what should have happened.

Either way I am going to try this diet and see what happens, to me it makes a lot of sense. I never feel good after eating carb and protein together, especially shit like grains, etc, never make me feel good. "fruit, honey, jam, edible leaves, edible flowers and some edible greens" always make me feel good. And pure meat organs especially chicken hearts make me feel real good as well. Eggs sometimes and cheese, but I kinda feel weird eating too much of them, IMO they have too much hormones/growth factors in them.

 

[Bewusst]

What type of food did you eat my friend?

I bet your protein intake wasn't low, I bet you ate exactly around 10-15% protein intake which is the most fattening according to the study I posted.

For example pasta, corn, grains, bread, lentils, beans and rice are all around 10-17% protein which is the most fattening. You should've only consumed fruit, honey, jam, edible leaves, edible flowers and some edible greens ideally to achieve the effects I am describing.

So you case isn't special at all, you should've gained fat and accordingly, so you did.

And no, monkeys are not as active as us, they are very lazy. Now I don't doubt that they are more active than most people, but compared to me and pre-historic humans they are definitely not more active. I sprint every-day, lift weights, walk for hours and my brain burns way more metabolism than theirs does. As I said before it's proven that per kg humans have higher metabolism than monkeys.

Also I don't care about fat intake, as long as it's less than 20% it doesn't matter in this case as the study gave the mice 20% fat composition in all cases. I personally eat around 5-10% fat in my macros and I find it's the best for blood flow and erections for me, everyone is different though.

TL;DR Your argument actually proves the study, you ate 10-15% protein and gained fat, according to the study that's exactly what should have happened.

Either way I am going to try this diet and see what happens, to me it makes a lot of sense. I never feel good after eating carb and protein together, especially shit like grains, etc, never make me feel good. "fruit, honey, jam, edible leaves, edible flowers and some edible greens" always make me feel good. And pure meat organs especially chicken hearts make me feel real good as well. Eggs sometimes and cheese, but I kinda feel weird eating too much of them, IMO they have too much hormones/growth factors in them.

I didn‘t eat 10-15% protein jfl, that’d be at least 100 g of protein on a 4,000 kcal day. I never ingested that much protein. Even now I don‘t get that much protein, despite eating balanced. Probably not even 0.6 g/kg body weight on most days. I ate beans/lentils only once or twice per week. Most of my calories came from sugar/carbs. I ate fat-free cornflakes with table sugar sprinkled on top, bread with no added fat, sugar cane syrup/honey and fruits every day. Sometimes also fat-free candy and rice with veggies. When I say fat-free, I mean no fat has been added and > .5 g/100 g (POINT five). My protein intake was very low.

 

[INeedMoreCalories]

Boty