Masculinity and femininity as an abstract concept have no meaning in the real world

[Magical Apple]

Nothing makes me roll my eyes more than when I hear stuff like "masculine energy," "divine feminine" and "real man." There is no more to masculinity or femininity than sex and reproduction. Gender roles are nothing more than practical arrangements and traits selected through game theory. Reality is asexual and without identity. People ought to live their lives practically and not focus on made up bullshit.

 

[Deleted member 17872]

The ying yang masculine feminine energy is bullshit.

But gender roles have basis in reality. It's our biology.

Sexuality and asexuality is a human concept and have no basis in reality. It's just a human projection.

 

[Deleted member 17791]

Yep, most shit associated with each sex is made up nonsense.

 

[Deleted member 17791]

The ying yang masculine feminine energy is bullshit.

But gender roles have basis in reality. It's our biology.

In ancient greece, it was considered masculine to be emotional and cry and shit. Now you get told to man up if you cry in public as a dude.

 

[LiteralCaucasian]

It's biology you imbecile.

 

[Deleted member 23100]

I hold that

fem - 0
masc - 1

 

[Prettyboy]

I’ve heard people argue that gender identities are not innate and are merely forced on us by society based on how we look, so we have to accept them and behave accordingly

 

[Deleted member 17872]

In ancient greece, it was considered masculine to be emotional and cry and shit. Now you get told to man up if you cry in public as a dude.

And? Outside of dumb Germanic culture it's okay for man to cry and be emotional.

 

[Deleted member 23100]

I’ve heard people argue that gender identities are not innate and are merely forced on us by society based on how we look, so we have to accept them and behave accordingly

gender is metaphysical

 

[Magical Apple]

The ying yang masculine feminine energy is bullshit.

But gender roles have basis in reality. It's our biology.

Sexuality and asexuality is a human concept and have no basis in reality. It's just a human projection.

In the modern world, the most effective gender roles are for both men and women to be providers. Early childcare is best relegated to grandparents. We don't need homemakers as most domestic tasks are extremely easy these days. Most modern tasks don't require physical strength so women need to step just as much as men.

 

[Magical Apple]

And? Outside of dumb Germanic culture it's okay for man to cry and be emotional.

Every human being should be in control of his or her emotions.

 

[Deleted member 17872]

In the modern world, the most effective gender roles are for both men and women to be providers. Early childcare is best relegated to grandparents. We don't need homemakers as most domestic tasks are extremely easy these days. Most modern tasks don't require physical strength so women need to step just as much as men.

Women are better for childcare because they have higher emotional intelligence

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex...:text=Women tend to score higher,Bosson et al.

Every human being should be in control of his or her emotions.

There are gender differences in emotions and it's stupid to deny it.

 

[Magical Apple]

Women are better for childcare because they have higher emotional intelligence

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_emotional_intelligence#:~:text=Women tend to score higher,Bosson et al.


There are gender differences in emotions and it's stupid to deny it.

I think kids should receive childcare from both men and women. The most important thing is that they are getting taken care of by people who have a genuine connection to them, e.g. family members.

It doesn't matter if testosterone is making you angrier or estrogen is making you sadder. Control your emotions. People who can't do this are dysfunctional and its not something society should normalize.

 

[Deleted member 17872]

I think kids should receive childcare from both men and women. The most important thing is that they are getting taken care of by people who have a genuine connection to them, e.g. family members.

Yes both men and women should help in childcare but women are better care takers and so they should spend more time with children.

It doesn't matter if testosterone is making you angrier or estrogen is making you sadder. Control your emotions. People who can't do this are dysfunctional and its not something society should normalize.

There should be a balance. If you repress your emotions too much it gonna cause even more trouble.

 

[Magical Apple]

Yes both men and women should help in childcare but women are better care takers and so they should spend more time with children.

There should be a balance. If you repress your emotions too much it gonna cause even more trouble.

Not necessarily true. Men are often really good caretakers. For example, kids with single fathers wind up in prison less than kids with single mothers.

And controlling doesn't mean repressing. It means not letting your emotions control your actions. For example, you can be angry and not yell at your wife. Or if you are sad, do not burst into tears in front of people and continue with your duties.

 

[Deleted member 17872]

Not necessarily true. Men are often really good caretakers. For example, kids with single fathers wind up in prison less than kids with single mothers.

I said on average. Women on average have higher intelligence.

As for the single parent thing, it's because father are more scary do children listen to them more and tend to engage in criminal activities less.

And controlling doesn't mean repressing. It means not letting your emotions control your actions. For example, you can be angry and not yell at your wife. Or if you are sad, do not burst into tears in front of people and continue with your duties.

but you gotta release your emotion once in a while. Most people don't have that level to self control. Sometimes you will be overawed by the occasion.

 

[Magical Apple]

I said on average. Women on average have higher intelligence.

As for the single parent thing, it's because father are more scary do children listen to them more and tend to engage in criminal activities less.

but you gotta release your emotion once in a while. Most people don't have that level to self control. Sometimes you will be overawed by the occasion.

Men and women have the same average IQ. Perhaps men are better at picking up certain emotions and women others but its pretty irrelevant in practice.

You release it and fully experience but you don't let it control your actions. Emotions pass quickly, but the shame of losing control in front of other people sticks around a long time.

 

[Deleted member 17791]

And? Outside of dumb Germanic culture it's okay for man to cry and be emotional.

The point is that it can change, I suppose what I said went over your head.

 

[Deleted member 17872]

Men and women have the same average IQ.

Wrong but nothing to do with what i have said. But IQ is a bogus measurement.

Perhaps men are better at picking up certain emotions and women others but its pretty irrelevant in practice.

It's important on a large scale.

You release it and fully experience but you don't let it control your actions. Emotions pass quickly, but the shame of losing control in front of other people sticks around a long time.

Not really. Sometimes the regret of not acting based on your emotion is even higher

The point is that it can change, I suppose what I said went over your head.

I said gender roles have some basis in reality. Not that gender roles are entirely rigid and immutable. And crying is not a gender role. Ofcourse there will be some individual and cultural differences in gender roles but the basic framework of man as a provider and women as caretaker is pretty evident in almost every successful society.

 

[Magical Apple]

Wrong but nothing to do with what i have said. But IQ is a bogus measurement.

It's important on a large scale.

Not really. Sometimes the regret of not acting based on your emotion is even higher


I said gender roles have some basis in reality. Not that gender roles are entirely rigid and immutable. And crying is not a gender role. Ofcourse there will be some individual and cultural differences in gender roles but the basic framework of man as a provider and women as caretaker is pretty evident in almost every successful society.

I'm saying that in the modern world people should not divide into gender roles as they don't currently serve as much a practical purpose like they used to.

And if the emotion is important, then yes but you should act on it in a controlled and mature manner.

 

[germanlooks]

Cope

 

[Deleted member 17872]

I'm saying that in the modern world people should not divide into gender roles as they don't currently serve as much a practical purpose like they used to.

And if the emotion is important, then yes but you should act on it in a controlled and mature manner.

Gender gap is more pronouned in modern western society than in non western society. If society won't enforce gender norms then people themselves will enforc it more harshly

Nobel Scientist's Claim Examined: Do Women Actually Cry More?

The general consensus is that Tim Hunt was completely out of line, studies show women do cry more than men — though not, as Hunt claimed, because they can't take criticism, but because of various biological, social and environmental factors.

www.livescience.com

Personality and gender differences in global perspective - PubMed

Men's and women's personalities appear to differ in several respects. Social role theories of development assume gender differences result primarily from perceived gender roles, gender socialization and sociostructural power differentials. As a consequence, social role theorists expect gender...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Sex differences in personality are larger in gender equal countries: Replicating and extending a surprising finding - PubMed

Sex differences in personality have been shown to be larger in more gender equal countries. We advance this research by using an extensive personality measure, the IPIP-NEO-120, with large country samples (N > 1000), from 22 countries. Furthermore, to capture the multidimensionality of personalit …

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Gender differences in personality traits across cultures: robust and surprising findings - PubMed

Secondary analyses of Revised NEO Personality Inventory data from 26 cultures (N = 23,031) suggest that gender differences are small relative to individual variation within genders; differences are replicated across cultures for both college-age and adult samples, and differences are broadly...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Self-esteem gender gap more pronounced in western countries

People worldwide tend to gain self-esteem as they grow older, and men generally have higher levels of self-esteem than women, but this self-esteem gender gap is more pronounced in Western industrialized countries.

www.apa.org

 

[Deleted member 23778]

And? Outside of dumb Germanic culture it's okay for man to cry and be emotional.

More proof of German autism

 

[Magical Apple]

Gender gap is more pronouned in modern western society than in non western society. If society won't enforce gender norms then people themselves will enforc it more harshly

Nobel Scientist's Claim Examined: Do Women Actually Cry More?

The general consensus is that Tim Hunt was completely out of line, studies show women do cry more than men — though not, as Hunt claimed, because they can't take criticism, but because of various biological, social and environmental factors.

www.livescience.com

Personality and gender differences in global perspective - PubMed

Men's and women's personalities appear to differ in several respects. Social role theories of development assume gender differences result primarily from perceived gender roles, gender socialization and sociostructural power differentials. As a consequence, social role theorists expect gender...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Sex differences in personality are larger in gender equal countries: Replicating and extending a surprising finding - PubMed

Sex differences in personality have been shown to be larger in more gender equal countries. We advance this research by using an extensive personality measure, the IPIP-NEO-120, with large country samples (N > 1000), from 22 countries. Furthermore, to capture the multidimensionality of personalit …

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Gender differences in personality traits across cultures: robust and surprising findings - PubMed

Secondary analyses of Revised NEO Personality Inventory data from 26 cultures (N = 23,031) suggest that gender differences are small relative to individual variation within genders; differences are replicated across cultures for both college-age and adult samples, and differences are broadly...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Self-esteem gender gap more pronounced in western countries

People worldwide tend to gain self-esteem as they grow older, and men generally have higher levels of self-esteem than women, but this self-esteem gender gap is more pronounced in Western industrialized countries.

www.apa.org

W

In modern society, gender roles are a behavioral sink. Society needs to find methods to actively discourage this behavior as it's not healthy in the long run.

 

[Deleted member 18582]

The ying yang masculine feminine energy is bullshit.

But gender roles have basis in reality. It's our biology.

Sexuality and asexuality is a human concept and have no basis in reality. It's just a human projection.

Sounds pretty patriarchal and essentialist to me.

Consider rethinking your views, thanks.

Consider reading Foucault.

 

[Deleted member 17872]

Sounds pretty patriarchal and essentialist to me.

how?

Consider rethinking your views, thanks.

Any good counter arguments?

Consider reading Foucault.

what about Deleuze?

 

[Deleted member 18582]

how?

By reading Foucault.

Any good counter arguments?

Yes, see Foucault

what about Deleuze?

No

 

[Deleted member 17872]

By reading Foucault.

Yes, see Foucault

No

Foucaultmax.org

 

[Deleted member 18582]

Someone didn't read Judith Butler very well, LOL.

Consider rereading Gender Trouble and then come post here. Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 17872]

In modern society, gender roles are a behavioral sink. Society needs to find methods to actively discourage this behavior as it's not healthy in the long run.

Behavioral sink don't hold up in humans
but
i don't think you even understood waht i said. Society enforced gender roles contained extreme dimorphism in human behaiour. Without it the gap is becoming even more pronounced.

 

[Magical Apple]

Behavioral sink don't hold up in humans
but
i don't think you even understood waht i said. Society enforced gender roles contained extreme dimorphism in human behaiour. Without it the gap is becoming even more pronounced.

I'm saying that we need to try to avoid this from happening. Its one of the factors destroying society. Following chimp instincts is not a way to run a technological society.

 

[Deleted member 17791]

The ying yang masculine feminine energy is bullshit.

But gender roles have basis in reality. It's our biology.

Sexuality and asexuality is a human concept and have no basis in reality. It's just a human projection.

Wrong but nothing to do with what i have said. But IQ is a bogus measurement.

It's important on a large scale.

Not really. Sometimes the regret of not acting based on your emotion is even higher


I said gender roles have some basis in reality. Not that gender roles are entirely rigid and immutable. And crying is not a gender role. Ofcourse there will be some individual and cultural differences in gender roles but the basic framework of man as a provider and women as caretaker is pretty evident in almost every successful society.

Well would you look at that.

1. you lied. you never said 'some'.

2. changing the goal post. Now your argument is just women breast feed and give birth to children while men do stuff to provide resources while women are pre occupied. That isn't a gender role, that's just how humans re produce.

'Gender roles in society means how we're expected to act, speak, dress, groom, and conduct ourselves based upon our assigned sex. '

Since I have to spell it out for you, the actual meaning of gender roles is what society expects of people. What they should wear, how they should act etc. What you have done is do a bait and switch, using this incredibly weak version of 'gender roles' when you're on the defense while using a much more useful one while on the attack, you have a problem with people breaking the retarded gender roles in society like dress codes etc.

 

[Deleted member 17872]

Well would you look at that.

1. you lied. you never said 'some'.

Autism 101. Everybody understood what i wrote except. I'm not going to be 100% exact with my words when i'm arguing on the internet

2. changing the goal post. Now your argument is just women breast feed and give birth to children while men do stuff to provide resources while women are pre occupied. That isn't a gender role, that's just how humans re produce.

Keep trying to strawman like the retard yu are.

'Gender roles in society means how we're expected to act, speak, dress, groom, and conduct ourselves based upon our assigned sex. '

"Assigned sex" lol. Nobody but the retarded psotmodernist believes that. Gender roles are the cultural expressions of reproductive roles.

Since I have to spell it out for you, the actual meaning of gender roles is what society expects of people. What they should wear, how they should act etc. What you have done is do a bait and switch, using this incredibly weak version of 'gender roles' when you're on the defense while using a much more useful one while on the attack, you have a problem with people breaking the retarded gender roles in society like dress codes etc.

All of that is in your mind. I have been consistent throughout that crying is not a gender role for me. It maybe consider in some culture but that is the flaw of the culture.