💀 Maxilla: Difference Between Recessed and Flat, Explained with 3D Animations

[Deleted member 208062]

Amazing

 

[maxilla-not-found]

flat AND recessed is brutal

would you say my maxilla is flat and recessed or just flat?

 

[maxilla-not-found]

View attachment 4205433

Looking at this slice through my zygos I think my maxilla is flat.
But comparing my side profile to your chart it seems not flat.

I might just be on the borderline for flat. I’m certainly recessed but it appears to be mostly in the lower maxilla as my anterior nasal spine is set back from my upper nasal bone.. I don’t see how Lefort 2 alone would be good here, it would have to be segmental 2 and 1 combined.

It also raises a question about infraorbital implants because unless you already have an exemplary “3D” maxilla, they are going to flatten it out even more. I’m not sure my face can support them at all without Lefort 2.

View attachment 4205434

Good thread.

would you say my maxilla is similar in 3Dness to your ceph? i’m not sure if a high cut lf1 would do much improvement?

 

[Foreverbrad]

View attachment 4205497would you say my maxilla is similar in 3Dness to your ceph? i’m not sure if a high cut lf1 would do much improvement?

Looks quite flat but having good cheekbones literally works against you for this.

 

[maxilla-not-found]

Looks quite flat but having good cheekbones literally works against you for this.

so a trimax wouldn’t be a great idea to pursue?

 

[Arbuscular]

I have a 3mm recession and it doesn't look like it.

 

[Foreverbrad]

so a trimax wouldn’t be a great idea to pursue?

i don’t know man please get a CT if you are really serious about this

I think you will dogmaxx with any bimax advancement, you need lefort 2 bimax. Basically your face is already balanced so you’d have to move entire midface linearly forward if that’s what you wanted. Plus probably some augmentation to the brow ridge.

 

[Prøphet]

Botb

 

[JordanFagget271]

Maxillary Protrusion and Retrusion

Maxillary protrusion and retrusion is how anteriorly positioned your palate is in relation to your neurocranium.

View attachment 4199761

Whether a maxilla is recessed or not recessed depends on the relationship between the positions of the palate, eyes, and mandible. And the space in the airway.

Recessed maxilla indicators:

• Negative orbital vector
• Nasolabial folds
• Retrognathic profile
• Underbite (class III malocclusion)
• Teeth look inwardly set when smiling

Recessed maxilla can cause functional health issues such as tooth wear (in class III malocclusion), airway constriction (can cause sleep apnea), and speech problems.

---

Maxillary 3Dness and Flatness

Maxillary “3D”ness is an aesthetic look that comes from:

• anterior projection of the paranasal area, nasal sill, anterior nasal spine, and pyriform aperture
• backwardly-angled zygomatic processes of the maxilla (the “connecting wings” that border the zygos) making the midface look fox-like as opposed to pancake

View attachment 4199878

Unlike protrusion/retrusion, 3Dness/flatness is an entirely aesthetic feature and has no bearing on health.

3Dness/flatness is closely related to the orbitomaxillary plane angle. More about that here:

💀 The 3 Most Important Craniofacial Plane Angles for Aesthetics [3D Morphs]

Mandibular Plane Angle Animation Range: 0º to 45º Below Horizon Ideal Pitch: 12.5º Degrees Below Horizon Orbitomaxillary Plane Angle Animation Range: 2.5º Inward to 30º Outward Ideal Yaw: 25º Outward Temporal Plane Angle Animation Range: 0º to 30º Ideal Yaw: 10º

looksmax.org

---

Examples

View attachment 4199869

The gorilla maxilla shows the difference between forward-grownness and 3Dness. The gorilla maxilla is extremely forward-protruding, but it’s flat as fuck, literally flatter than an Asian maxilla:

View attachment 4199953

The human maxilla’s teeth are more retracted and tucked under the eyes, but the shape of the central maxilla is much less flat:

View attachment 4199961

---

Mew Cope

Mouth breathing and shit oral posture can make the maxilla grow improperly, but that has to do with positioning (protrusion/retrusion) only. Mewing from birth would’ve done absolutely nothing for your maxilla’s 3Dness/flatness.

whats that? whats a maxilla?

 

[refz75]

Another beautiful banger from thecel

 

[refz75]

Sadly those who call every nigga recessed never gonna see this

 

[St.TikTokcel]

Recessed maxilla indicators:

• Negative orbital vector
• Nasolabial folds
• Retrognathic profile
• Underbite (class III malocclusion)
• Teeth look inwardly set when smiling

---

Chad trait if you have them @FacialStructure404

 

[VampyrMaxx]

View attachment 4205433

Looking at this slice through my zygos I think my maxilla is flat.
But comparing my side profile to your chart it seems not flat.

I might just be on the borderline for flat. I’m certainly recessed but it appears to be mostly in the lower maxilla as my anterior nasal spine is set back from my upper nasal bone.. I don’t see how Lefort 2 alone would be good here, it would have to be segmental 2 and 1 combined.

It also raises a question about infraorbital implants because unless you already have an exemplary “3D” maxilla, they are going to flatten it out even more. I’m not sure my face can support them at all without Lefort 2.

View attachment 4205434

Good thread.

How much was your CT scan?

 

[Foreverbrad]

How much was your CT scan?

Bout tree fiddy

 

[CorinthianLOX]

holy botb worthy

 

[Cinnamon fan64]

I think mines recceesd and flat

 

[Lookologist003]

I morphed Loli Bahia to have a semi-ideal maxilla.

Looks good bro.

It also raises a question about infraorbital implants because unless you already have an exemplary “3D” maxilla, they are going to flatten it out even more. I’m not sure my face can support them at all without Lefort 2.

The prospect of surgery gets more and more grim the more you learn. We are so much limited by our jaws. a forward grown maxilla provides a positive orbital vector by default.

 

[VampyrMaxx]

View attachment 4206732
I think mines recceesd and flat

your upper is recessed not lower. Your maxilla is one of those weird cases where I cant really tell whats going on.

 

[Cinnamon fan64]

your upper is recessed not lower. Your maxilla is one of those weird cases where I cant really tell whats going on.

View attachment 4206930
View attachment 4206932

That was a morph
I wanted some compliments

 

[futureashtray]

yes yes yes

this post is 100% for offtopic and definitely not for looksmaxxing subforum

because FUCK that subforum! Right?

 

[thecel]

View attachment 4206732
I think mines recceesd and flat

very slightly flat, and incredibly forward-grown

 

[thecel]

yes yes yes

this post is 100% for offtopic and definitely not for looksmaxxing subforum

because FUCK that subforum! Right?

I thought they move threads out of looksmaxing if they aren’t about ACTUALLY looksmaxing

this is theory, not advice, not someone’s real situation/plan

 

[Cinnamon fan64]

View attachment 4206732
I think mines recceesd and flat

Made it better

 

[thecel]

View attachment 4207135
Made it better

even better

 

[Cinnamon fan64]

View attachment 4207303

even better

 

[AscendingHero]

Maxillary Protrusion and Retrusion

Maxillary protrusion and retrusion is how anteriorly positioned your palate is in relation to your neurocranium.

View attachment 4199761

Whether a maxilla is recessed or not recessed depends on the relationship between the positions of the palate, eyes, and mandible. And the space in the airway.

Recessed maxilla indicators:

• Negative orbital vector
• Nasolabial folds
• Retrognathic profile
• Underbite (class III malocclusion)
• Teeth look inwardly set when smiling

Recessed maxilla can cause functional health issues such as tooth wear (in class III malocclusion), airway constriction (can cause sleep apnea), and speech problems.

---

Maxillary 3Dness and Flatness

Maxillary “3D”ness is an aesthetic look that comes from:

• anterior projection of the paranasal area, nasal sill, anterior nasal spine, and pyriform aperture
• backwardly-angled zygomatic processes of the maxilla (the “connecting wings” that border the zygos) making the midface look fox-like as opposed to pancake

View attachment 4199878

Unlike protrusion/retrusion, 3Dness/flatness is an entirely aesthetic feature and has no bearing on health.

3Dness/flatness is closely related to the orbitomaxillary plane angle. More about that here:

💀 The 3 Most Important Craniofacial Plane Angles for Aesthetics [3D Morphs]

Mandibular Plane Angle Animation Range: 0º to 45º Below Horizon Ideal Pitch: 12.5º Degrees Below Horizon Orbitomaxillary Plane Angle Animation Range: 2.5º Inward to 30º Outward Ideal Yaw: 25º Outward Temporal Plane Angle Animation Range: 0º to 30º Ideal Yaw: 10º

looksmax.org

---

Examples

View attachment 4199869

The gorilla maxilla shows the difference between forward-grownness and 3Dness. The gorilla maxilla is extremely forward-protruding, but it’s flat as fuck, literally flatter than an Asian maxilla:

View attachment 4199953

The human maxilla’s teeth are more retracted and tucked under the eyes, but the shape of the central maxilla is much less flat:

View attachment 4199961

---

Mew Cope

Mouth breathing and shit oral posture can make the maxilla grow improperly, but that has to do with positioning (protrusion/retrusion) only. Mewing from birth would’ve done absolutely nothing for your maxilla’s 3Dness/flatness.

Good thread but I still think there's a level of convolution here need to be clarified

If your maxilla is recessed it's going to look flat, Frankfurt plane angle as a neutral vector regardless of any prognathism.

Head Alignment

rps.org

-


Majority of people according to Dr. John Mew have about 2 centimeters of facial recession on average and you can even tell in your favorite mogger they could be more forward grown, so off that alone most people aren't perfectly forward grown through all 3 thirds of the face
Minute 30

Secondly maxillary prognathism (lower palate growth) should just be look in isolation for maxillary recession vs proper growth, upper part should be considered too

If you look at how the maxilla grows it's a 2 part thing with primary displacement as well as secondary displacement when structures like the aperture and nasomaxillary complex grows which also furthers displaces it forward/downwards again

Lacrimal suture allows for the maxilla to grow downwards which is a very necessary event to certain degrees for males

There's also growth rotations that can significantly affect how projected whatever growth you have looks too, angulate everything better, differently

Maxillary 3Dness and Flatness

Maxillary “3D”ness is an aesthetic look that comes from:

• anterior projection of the paranasal area, nasal sill, anterior nasal spine, and pyriform aperture
• backwardly-angled zygomatic processes of the maxilla (the “connecting wings” that border the zygos) making the midface look fox-like as opposed to pancake

Excellent bloody gif and it perfectly shows how literally everything has to grow forwards?

I know it's also a relative comparison but should the zygos just not project forward, why are they moving so much backward relative, so much negative displacement?

Also besides the nasal spine and nasal ridge how important is nasal aperture growth, what does a project vs recessed one look like



Few big questions that if you're pressed for time I'd love if you can answer although @thecel

backwardly-angled zygomatic processes of the maxilla (the “connecting wings” that border the zygos) making the midface look fox-like as opposed to pancake

Can you PLEASE post an example of what this would look like, a mogger vs subhuman please
This is like that malar hollowing deep canine fossa look

Or is it something different?

Can you make one for the forehead and frontonasal area properly growing too?

 

[AscendingHero]

Maxillary Protrusion and Retrusion

Maxillary protrusion and retrusion is how anteriorly positioned your palate is in relation to your neurocranium.

View attachment 4199761

Whether a maxilla is recessed or not recessed depends on the relationship between the positions of the palate, eyes, and mandible. And the space in the airway.

Recessed maxilla indicators:

• Negative orbital vector
• Nasolabial folds
• Retrognathic profile
• Underbite (class III malocclusion)
• Teeth look inwardly set when smiling

Recessed maxilla can cause functional health issues such as tooth wear (in class III malocclusion), airway constriction (can cause sleep apnea), and speech problems.

---

Maxillary 3Dness and Flatness

Maxillary “3D”ness is an aesthetic look that comes from:

• anterior projection of the paranasal area, nasal sill, anterior nasal spine, and pyriform aperture
• backwardly-angled zygomatic processes of the maxilla (the “connecting wings” that border the zygos) making the midface look fox-like as opposed to pancake

View attachment 4199878

Unlike protrusion/retrusion, 3Dness/flatness is an entirely aesthetic feature and has no bearing on health.

3Dness/flatness is closely related to the orbitomaxillary plane angle. More about that here:

💀 The 3 Most Important Craniofacial Plane Angles for Aesthetics [3D Morphs]

Mandibular Plane Angle Animation Range: 0º to 45º Below Horizon Ideal Pitch: 12.5º Degrees Below Horizon Orbitomaxillary Plane Angle Animation Range: 2.5º Inward to 30º Outward Ideal Yaw: 25º Outward Temporal Plane Angle Animation Range: 0º to 30º Ideal Yaw: 10º

looksmax.org

---

Examples

View attachment 4199869

The gorilla maxilla shows the difference between forward-grownness and 3Dness. The gorilla maxilla is extremely forward-protruding, but it’s flat as fuck, literally flatter than an Asian maxilla:

View attachment 4199953

The human maxilla’s teeth are more retracted and tucked under the eyes, but the shape of the central maxilla is much less flat:

View attachment 4199961

---

Mew Cope

Mouth breathing and shit oral posture can make the maxilla grow improperly, but that has to do with positioning (protrusion/retrusion) only. Mewing from birth would’ve done absolutely nothing for your maxilla’s 3Dness/flatness.

Could you PLEASE make a thread discussing giga mogger/fogger ideal ipd, icd, ocd, esr ratios, why borderline hyperterlorism aesthetics can look so ideal on females with other aspects come along even on some males

As well features one needs harmonizing massive PFL in general on both genders and the ideal pupil/iris sizes?

Could you also make a thread discussing ear aesthetics, ear to neurocranium ratio and forehead aesthetics too?

 

[yussimania]

Good thread but I still think there's a level of convolution here need to be clarified

If your maxilla is recessed it's going to look flat, Frankfurt plane angle as a neutral vector regardless of any prognathism.
View attachment 4208858View attachment 4208861View attachment 4208863

Head Alignment

rps.org

-


Majority of people according to Dr. John Mew have about 2 centimeters of facial recession on average and you can even tell in your favorite mogger they could be more forward grown, so off that alone most people aren't perfectly forward grown through all 3 thirds of the face
Minute 30
View attachment 4208866

Secondly maxillary prognathism (lower palate growth) should just be look in isolation for maxillary recession vs proper growth, upper part should be considered too

If you look at how the maxilla grows it's a 2 part thing with primary displacement as well as secondary displacement when structures like the aperture and nasomaxillary complex grows which also furthers displaces it forward/downwards again
View attachment 4208869View attachment 4208871View attachment 4208872View attachment 4208873View attachment 4208876View attachment 4208902

View attachment 4208904

Lacrimal suture allows for the maxilla to grow downwards which is a very necessary event to certain degrees for males
View attachment 4208877View attachment 4208881



There's also growth rotations that can significantly affect how projected whatever growth you have looks too, angulate everything better, differently
View attachment 4208898


Excellent bloody gif and it perfectly shows how literally everything has to grow forwards?

I know it's also a relative comparison but should the zygos just not project forward, why are they moving so much backward relative, so much negative displacement?

Also besides the nasal spine and nasal ridge how important is nasal aperture growth, what does a project vs recessed one look like



Few big questions that if you're pressed for time I'd love if you can answer although @thecel


Can you PLEASE post an example of what this would look like, a mogger vs subhuman please
This is like that malar hollowing deep canine fossa look
View attachment 4208907View attachment 4208911View attachment 4208909View attachment 4208915
Or is it something different?

Can you make one for the forehead and frontonasal area properly growing too?


View attachment 4208918View attachment 4208919View attachment 4208933View attachment 4208938View attachment 4208940
View attachment 4208957View attachment 4208951

yep the frontonasal area is the reason why some end up dogmaxxed with advancement surgeries, heavily underrated with most normies

 

[AscendingHero]

Just because it's not horribly recessed or there is some lower prognathism doesn't mean they're not recessed, they have little superficial bone growth on the maxila (nasorbital aspects but body is still heavily recessed despite the prognathism)

Even on the asian examples (including the models), the maxilla just isn't displaced away from the face like that. The body of the maxilla itself let alone the other aspects, profile wouldn't look as flat.

Sure they have solid growth for their pheno but they'd probably benefit from more maxillary body displacement

These asian women with some naso projection aren't recessed but could still have more growth and they're top percentile foggers

The added facial depth would do wonders for their features and contours irrespective of individual bone growth untop of the body of the maxilla, not just how much the face is displaced from the rest which is a feminine trait but facial depth in general. Posterior and anterior, forehead, neurocranium, the angle of it, parts that are higher (cranial top, occipital bun vs lower and much more)

Facial Depth - Defined

Facial Depth is basically a refined version Forward Growth theory. While some people might say water is wet, this updated theory explains why many midface implant designs look fake and stuck-on, and why “Modified LeFort 3” (often abbreviated MLF3) has almost no chance of creating an extremely...

looksmax.org

Notice how naturally wide and short the face is like that Mew photo of the ideal woman, facial growth is so complex and nuanced but when there is more growth like that there is more tissue to stretch, areas for hollows to form and flaws less mitigated because everything is aesthetically displaced like wet strokes on a broad canvas

Here is how I separate and categorize facial depth.

Certain landmarks are constant and can’t be changed like the external auditory meatus, tragus, anterior/posterior positioning of the eyes, neck and to some extent the hyoid bone. These are the constant reference marks. Everything else can be moved forward with the properly modified surgeries.

It’s my opinion that the most overlooked subcategory of facial depth is anterior facial depth which is projection or retrusion in the LeFort 2 region. It’s probably the area which sets apart average people from beautiful people the most.

Anterior Facial Depth
(The projection of the central midface off the posterior midface and is enhanced through LeFort 2 Osteotomy)

Posterior Facial Depth
The projection of the entire face as a unit from the rest of the skull and corrected by a LeFort 3 Advancement or implants informed by the LeFort 3 Concept.

When all of the subcategories of facial depth are sufficiently projecting the face fits into a square shape:

 

[AscendingHero]

yep the frontonasal area is the reason why some end up dogmaxxed with advancement surgeries, heavily underrated with most normies

Too underrated man and with enough ramii (good Mandibular plane angle) + frontonasal area and an aesthetic frontal bone you can look pretty aesthetic even without too much raw facial growth/midfacial displacement, see it on caucasoids all the time

Some even without a good lower third/ramii (Ben Affleck, Christian Bale) or a perfect frontal bone with facial recession/viscrercocranium but decent nasofrontal area (Pattison)

Overall cranial depth/skull to heigh ratio too underrated as well, people don't take facial aesthetics for what it is which is a milisecond total estimation of your features and entire skull

 

[bp_1]

Maxillary Protrusion and Retrusion

Maxillary protrusion and retrusion is how anteriorly positioned your palate is in relation to your neurocranium.

View attachment 4199761

Whether a maxilla is recessed or not recessed depends on the relationship between the positions of the palate, eyes, and mandible. And the space in the airway.

Recessed maxilla indicators:

• Negative orbital vector
• Nasolabial folds
• Retrognathic profile
• Underbite (class III malocclusion)
• Teeth look inwardly set when smiling

Recessed maxilla can cause functional health issues such as tooth wear (in class III malocclusion), airway constriction (can cause sleep apnea), and speech problems.

---

Maxillary 3Dness and Flatness

Maxillary “3D”ness is an aesthetic look that comes from:

• anterior projection of the paranasal area, nasal sill, anterior nasal spine, and pyriform aperture
• backwardly-angled zygomatic processes of the maxilla (the “connecting wings” that border the zygos) making the midface look fox-like as opposed to pancake

View attachment 4199878

Unlike protrusion/retrusion, 3Dness/flatness is an entirely aesthetic feature and has no bearing on health.

3Dness/flatness is closely related to the orbitomaxillary plane angle. More about that here:

💀 The 3 Most Important Craniofacial Plane Angles for Aesthetics [3D Morphs]

Mandibular Plane Angle Animation Range: 0º to 45º Below Horizon Ideal Pitch: 12.5º Degrees Below Horizon Orbitomaxillary Plane Angle Animation Range: 2.5º Inward to 30º Outward Ideal Yaw: 25º Outward Temporal Plane Angle Animation Range: 0º to 30º Ideal Yaw: 10º

looksmax.org

---

Examples

View attachment 4199869

The gorilla maxilla shows the difference between forward-grownness and 3Dness. The gorilla maxilla is extremely forward-protruding, but it’s flat as fuck, literally flatter than an Asian maxilla:

View attachment 4199953

The human maxilla’s teeth are more retracted and tucked under the eyes, but the shape of the central maxilla is much less flat:

View attachment 4199961

---

Mew Cope

Mouth breathing and shit oral posture can make the maxilla grow improperly, but that has to do with positioning (protrusion/retrusion) only. Mewing from birth would’ve done absolutely nothing for your maxilla’s 3Dness/flatness.

so can someone have both recession and flat maxilla at the same time?

my maxilla is likely just less anteriorly rotated

 

[AscendingHero]

Too underrated man and with enough ramii (good Mandibular plane angle) + frontonasal area and an aesthetic frontal bone you can look pretty aesthetic even without too much raw facial growth/midfacial displacement, see it on caucasoids all the time

Some even without a good lower third/ramii (Ben Affleck, Christian Bale) or a perfect frontal bone with facial recession/viscrercocranium but decent nasofrontal area (Pattison)

Overall cranial depth/skull to heigh ratio too underrated as well, people don't take facial aesthetics for what it is which is a milisecond total estimation of your features and entire skull

Like in this thread, from years ago OGcels kinda touched upon the basics of this:

Full Fraudward growth guide

Intro As basically everyone on this site knows, forward growth is the key to beauty for both males and females. A face with no depth is universally unattractive. However this depth doesn’t necessarily have to be from the maxilla. Heres a previous thread with morphs showing that depth can come...

looksmax.org

 

[nestivv]

 

[AscendingHero]

so can someone have both recession and flat maxilla at the same time?

my maxilla is likely just less anteriorly rotated

Yes of course and many-most are recessed lol to relative degrees

Thread mostly seem focused on anterior facial depth, not enough on posterior depth and overall length of the face which matter a lot

If you are recessed you likely have a flat maxilla and prognathism and lower maxilla displacement alone doesn't change that, also recession and profile flatness vs projection the frontonasal region needs to be taken account for here

Total facial convexity

 

[AscendingHero]

Been sayin ts

flat does not mean recessed

that word get thrown around too much imo

It usually does though lol and "recessed" is a broad term it needs context

If you have nasal guttering yes your mid maxilla/nasal area is recessed but does it entirely mean you have deficient idk let's say palatal-lefort 1 area recession?

Too nuanced and we need more CT scans and actual well taken profile pics in Frankfurt to deduce with racial variations taken into consideration

 

[gigacumster3000]

the fuck are you talking about fr

 

[kenibba]

bro always drops the most enlightening threads

 

[Lookologist003]

Majority of people according to Dr. John Mew have about 2 centimeters of facial recession

How did he define facial recession with measurements? Because two centimeters is precise. How did he even measure that group of people. He didn't really explain it...
He was like, "Yeah, um, yeah most people are recessed by 20mm bro, now look at this sexy woman that I paid a rule34 artist on Twitter to draw.

I appreciate your deference to a source, but it's needs to a scientific study and not just bros word on it. If we try to be objective, I mean.

 

[Pollorex]

Sean o aspie never fails

 

[comebotd]

Maxillary Protrusion and Retrusion

Maxillary protrusion and retrusion is how anteriorly positioned your palate is in relation to your neurocranium.

View attachment 4199761

Whether a maxilla is recessed or not recessed depends on the relationship between the positions of the palate, eyes, and mandible. And the space in the airway.

Recessed maxilla indicators:

• Negative orbital vector
• Nasolabial folds
• Retrognathic profile
• Underbite (class III malocclusion)
• Teeth look inwardly set when smiling

Recessed maxilla can cause functional health issues such as tooth wear (in class III malocclusion), airway constriction (can cause sleep apnea), and speech problems.

---

Maxillary 3Dness and Flatness

Maxillary “3D”ness is an aesthetic look that comes from:

• anterior projection of the paranasal area, nasal sill, anterior nasal spine, and pyriform aperture
• backwardly-angled zygomatic processes of the maxilla (the “connecting wings” that border the zygos) making the midface look fox-like as opposed to pancake

View attachment 4199878

Unlike protrusion/retrusion, 3Dness/flatness is an entirely aesthetic feature and has no bearing on health.

3Dness/flatness is closely related to the orbitomaxillary plane angle. More about that here:

💀 The 3 Most Important Craniofacial Plane Angles for Aesthetics [3D Morphs]

Mandibular Plane Angle Animation Range: 0º to 45º Below Horizon Ideal Pitch: 12.5º Degrees Below Horizon Orbitomaxillary Plane Angle Animation Range: 2.5º Inward to 30º Outward Ideal Yaw: 25º Outward Temporal Plane Angle Animation Range: 0º to 30º Ideal Yaw: 10º

looksmax.org

---

Examples

View attachment 4199869

The gorilla maxilla shows the difference between forward-grownness and 3Dness. The gorilla maxilla is extremely forward-protruding, but it’s flat as fuck, literally flatter than an Asian maxilla:

View attachment 4199953

The human maxilla’s teeth are more retracted and tucked under the eyes, but the shape of the central maxilla is much less flat:

View attachment 4199961

---

Mew Cope

Mouth breathing and shit oral posture can make the maxilla grow improperly, but that has to do with positioning (protrusion/retrusion) only. Mewing from birth would’ve done absolutely nothing for your maxilla’s 3Dness/flatness.

Looks quite flat but having good cheekbones literally works against you for this.

is it possible to have negative orbital vector on one side and a positive on the other? Like for my case


Here is my eye area

Right Side profile

Left Side profile

 

[comebotd]

is my mandible recessed or i just protruded lip?

 

[theRetard]

is his maxilla flat?

 

[AscendingHero]

How did he define facial recession with measurements? Because two centimeters is precise. How did he even measure that group of people. He didn't really explain it...
He was like, "Yeah, um, yeah most people are recessed by 20mm bro, now look at this sexy woman that I paid a rule34 artist on Twitter to draw.

I appreciate your deference to a source, but it's needs to a scientific study and not just bros word on it. If we try to be objective, I mean.

Steiners angle and general observation from the people he work with, at well as palatal size, room for wisdom teeth and airway size

You can also get some CTs and observe cranial base angles, this stuff is pretty objective and easy to see when you start observing patterns, need to look into my data archives to find ideal ranges but even that we don't have enough CTs of moggers/foggers in general which would help so much

I'll look into

I mean you can even look at older skulls, facial depth which , skulls is general have gotten far smaller and shorter than what they were of yesteryear

There's also his indicator line he likes to use which is flawed I mean that's just one way you can use to evaluate these things, there's also kidn

Good twitter account on this that rebuilds skulls, Ancestral Whispers: https://x.com/Sulkalmakh, some stuff of forums the apricity and more niche sites you can find stuff too


For example look at the posterior depth of this skull, you don't see that nowadays, let alone getting into the anterior portion in some skulls

Look at the general length of this female skull

Compare the two + flatter profile due to recessed nasal bones of the asian + recessed nasofrontal region comparatively, look anterior depth wise look at the orbital vector for one and the malar cheek angles

It's relative recession AND profile flatness AND the upper third is recessed relatively too

There's obviously a soft tissue element which needs to be taken into consideration here but the premise still applies

Male

 

[AscendingHero]

Too underrated man and with enough ramii (good Mandibular plane angle) + frontonasal area and an aesthetic frontal bone you can look pretty aesthetic even without too much raw facial growth/midfacial displacement, see it on caucasoids all the time

Some even without a good lower third/ramii (Ben Affleck, Christian Bale) or a perfect frontal bone with facial recession/viscrercocranium but decent nasofrontal area (Pattison)

Overall cranial depth/skull to heigh ratio too underrated as well, people don't take facial aesthetics for what it is which is a milisecond total estimation of your features and entire skull

Damn so many typos

"
Some even without a great lower third/ramii (Ben Affleck, Christian Bale) but a damn near perfect frontal bone with good profile angles

Or some with facial recession/viscerocranium issues but decent nasofrontal area with decent skull length (Pattison)

 

[comebotd]

Steiners angle and general observation from the people he work with, at well as palatal size, room for wisdom teeth and airway size
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You can also get some CTs and observe cranial base angles, this stuff is pretty objective and easy to see when you start observing patterns, need to look into my data archives to find ideal ranges but even that we don't have enough CTs of moggers/foggers in general which would help so much
View attachment 4211532
I'll look into

I mean you can even look at older skulls, facial depth which , skulls is general have gotten far smaller and shorter than what they were of yesteryear

There's also his indicator line he likes to use which is flawed I mean that's just one way you can use to evaluate these things, there's also kidn

Good twitter account on this that rebuilds skulls, Ancestral Whispers: https://x.com/Sulkalmakh, some stuff of forums the apricity and more niche sites you can find stuff too


For example look at the posterior depth of this skull, you don't see that nowadays, let alone getting into the anterior portion in some skulls
View attachment 4211503

Look at the general length of this female skull

Compare the two + flatter profile due to recessed nasal bones of the asian + recessed nasofrontal region comparatively, look anterior depth wise look at the orbital vector for one and the malar cheek angles
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It's relative recession AND profile flatness AND the upper third is recessed relatively too

There's obviously a soft tissue element which needs to be taken into consideration here but the premise still applies
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Male
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what about a thug with my skull?

 

[thecel]

Can you PLEASE post an example of what this would look like, a mogger vs subhuman please

3D:

Flat:

Can you make one for the forehead and frontonasal area properly growing too?

Later, maybe

 

[comebotd]

3D:
View attachment 4214153View attachment 4214154

Flat:
View attachment 4214145View attachment 4214140



Later, maybe

so what is wrong with my side? flat maxilla and recessed infras?

 

[thecel]

so what is wrong with my side? flat maxilla and recessed infras?

your maxilla looks good

not recessed, not flat

your issue might be with soft tissue

 

[comebotd]

your maxilla looks good

not recessed, not flat

your issue might be with soft tissue

i think your spot on cause my dentist also claimed- Uneven buccal fat specifically right side, when i asked her.

 

[AscendingHero]

3D:
View attachment 4214153View attachment 4214154

Flat:
View attachment 4214145View attachment 4214140



Later, maybe

Any real life human depictions? Soft tissue and everything apparent

This is for showcasing the zygomatic process of the maxilla area, ri?

And why do sometimes some zygos just appear archless even though on the CT they have an arch and even on some moggers, noticed this especially asian/black influenced one, it can just look like a round mound from the side (projected sure but not peak aesthetic)

See Mads here and here's a mogger

Noticed these others


I have an idea already just want to hear your thoughts

Why does the arch area look so small and punctured in relative to the malar, obviously soft tissue element vs

Ideal malar vs zygomatic arch height in your opinion for peak aesthetics?

Golf ball look is meme

-

vs

Having tiny zygomas and being malar less isn't good either though

@thecel