(MEGA THREAD) Proof God doesn’t exist

There's multiple answers to that Question:
1.) Jesus is the antitheses to their very existence (prophecy in the garden of enmity between the seed of the devil and seed of Adam which is y Jesus calls them the seed of the devil and he exposes them as fake Israelites. Their messiah is the anti-Christ and God is the Lucifer as they believe him to be the "good guy".
2.) The same hate God had for Esau and his seed, Esau and the Edomites have for God and his Son (and Israelites). That's why they've been in our nations destroying our people from the inside for thousands of years.
3.) They believe Jesus is a false Massiah and magician or sorcerer of some kind.


As for their lack of belief of hell. I don't know about that but if they continue their qays that's precisely where they're going unfortunately. If you try preaching about Jesus in the streets in Israel I'd imagine you'd go to jail (due to the laws) or potentially attacked or even killed.

I still hope as many as possible receive salvation but it's very bleak for them.
Do u have a link for this I can read up on it then reply after? Seems interesting
 
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Do u have a link for this I can read up on it then reply after? Seems interesting
In the video link I sent you

This has all the links and information you'll ever need as it contains all the peer reviewed studies, best experts, books, etc on the shroud.

The funny thing is the main argument for the opposition of this is the debunked 1988 carbon dating. I'm trying to find more experts claiming to debunk this but it's the same old story. Another video says the hands are too long.

The main thing I can think of is the image appears like a portrait aka flat picture but if the shroud was flat on his face or in close proximity would not the image be distorted? Perhaps via paint but not from radiation emissions. I don't know if anyone has an answer to that but that's my best method to debunk this as fraudulent.

Another thing I thought of is if he is indeed vertical as indicated by his hair and legs, then how didn't the coins fall out of his eye sockets or hands go straight down? Perhaps he is lying down but the hair does appear like he's vertical to me. It's tough to create a hypothesis on something that's never happened in any other time to use as a benchmark. Please let me know if you find any other ideas or theories to debunk this.

1715462813461
 
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@lightswinning reminder to read the thread
 
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godly thread tbh
 
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Jesus is real bro
 
Yh but he ain’t god tho
He seems to be the only one who is God. Forget Christianity forget Judaism Islam Catholics the Bible everything. No one can debunk this man right here, this unexplainable being who is better than Biden, muhammad, Gandhi, anyone. No dirt can be found on this being this thing, and if you truly truly ask for him to reveal himself to you he does I can’t explain to you you just have to try yourself. This guy is legit, truly the only looksmax/pill you need.
 
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Introduction

This is the ultimate god doesn’t exist proof thread. I will be providing proof (mostly) here that it is not possible for a god to exist. This is also intended for users who don’t have a great understanding of the subject and want to learn more about it, as well as for the high iq atheist users who just want their biases confirmed JFL.

This was inspired by @mogstars recent low iq (JFL) thread on life is cucked if you’re an atheist. I’m tired of religious cucks on this forum waffling: Muh Atheist low iq, Muh Atheist have no morality or no sense of purpose JFL, still makes me laugh, and they give no proof for it either, just wafflers. People have been claiming this about atheism for as long as it’s been around, so these points are really nothing new and can be explained. I aim to try to stop these low iq threads. Or if they will continue at least have good arguments.

One thing to note is that I am writing this thread from an unbiased perspective (some may have a hard time believing this given my strong atheistic stances on this forum lol) but nevertheless I have obviously considered both sides of the argument before making this thread, and I came to the conclusion atheism > religion/deism. Don’t make the mistake of thinking this was a preconceived confirmation bias decision as I am well aware of these biases and try my best for them not to hinder my reasoning. If there was more proof god existed I would simply be making this thread but for the other side.

Another thing to note is that it shouldn’t matter if god doesn’t exist. People often fall into depression after losing their faith (just like I did). The thing is that atheism can give meaning, purpose everything that religion can. It just can’t give life after death. The thing is though imagine if everyone had the perfect life they wanted from birth to death, there wouldn’t really be a need for an afterlife. In my opinion the concept of an afterlife only exists because of evil, which is an intrinsic part of humans. People have a hard time accepting that and feel the desire for justice or an afterlife which can be devoid of any evil. Every human struggles with this no matter how much they will try to Larp. Just accept it the way it is.

The way I define god is in the traditional sense of omnipotent, omniscience, omnipresent and omnibenevolent. If you are unaware with those terms just Google them JFL I can’t be asked to explain it on here, but most should.

Brief discussion on religions

As some of you may know I used to be Muslim my whole life until I left It only last year. The aim of this thread isn’t to disprove religions but to disprove the concept of god as a whole. I happen to think Christianity is a decent religion and many users here are obviously well versed in it and believe it is real (obviously not including Old Testament atrocities, there aren’t really any good apologetics for those as well, as well as how confusing the trinity is). But aside from that it’s alright. My personal opinion on Christianity is that Jesus wasn’t resurrected, but there is a decent plausibility that he was resurrected, and is therefore god. I can’t be asked to go into that here though because it will just take up too much time.

It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that Islam is a false religion, but just in case it’s not here is a thread on Reddit (JFL) that does a really good job outlining hadiths and how they disprove Islam. Great apologetics from both sides with unbiased opinions. Most Muslims here will never have heard of these as they are usually hidden by our scholars (obviously). Hence why when you bring these up to Muslims they almost always have never heard them before: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/q47mxhmgdU.

The funny thing is tbh I sometimes think about how it would be hilarious if everyone argues over the main 3 Abrahamic religions and the one true religion is just one which no one follows or has heard about JFL, from like 2000+ years ago. Cracks me up thinking about it. But yeh I do think all religions are false.

Anyway I have considered most of the arguments for god (some more well versed than others) but I have a pretty good understanding of the apologetics for them and the counter arguments against them. Ones I have studied:
Fine tuning

Ontological

Cosmological

Contingency

Moral

Personal experience

Resurrection

Miracles

There’s way more but I can’t be asked to list them all here or go through with them, as this is a proof god DOESNT exist thread. If you wanna learn them more there are plenty of videos and sources online explaining them. Just be aware that there’s obviously still work being done on all of them and u shouldn’t use this as a baseline for your religious beliefs, which brings me into my first argument against god.

Lack of evidence?

You probably know that most religious people claim that gods existence is obvious (I don’t think they know what obvious means JFL) but they will usually cite fine tuning argument or Muh look at the trees bullshit for their so called evidence.

Well I’m here to tell you it’s not obvious at all, just because stuff exists doesn’t mean the concept of god (which humans came up with btw) is a real entity manifesting externally from its conceptual standpoint. This is a fallacy but either way, this begs the question of why does god make it so painfully hard to provide any knowledge of his existence (outside of religion)? I’m not referring to divine hiddenness here because this already presupposes god to begin with, this is more along the lines of lack of CONCRETE evidence, one which doesn’t take years of studying and scientific work to arrive at a conclusion, more from a critical thinking standpoint I guess.

It shouldn’t seem intuitive to people that just by looking around this somehow means that god is real. We have had stuff which has always mind boggled our intuition and still does to this day (take quantum entanglement as an example). This logically follows that it should be possible for god not to exist and we still have the universe we see today. This part obviously isn’t conclusive proof it’s just the starting point for further exploration of the subject.

Another point religious people like to bring up is that god has to exist because the universe couldn’t have been brought about accidentally. However this isn’t really true, and seems similar to like an appeal to intuition in them saying god has to exist because there is no evidence against the world not being an accident. But this is only judged by their own intuition, and any smart person will know our intuition is subject to many biases that are accounted for when coming to conclusions based on independent verifiable evidence. It is certainly plausible that it could have been accidental, especially given the time frame that evolution occurred on and the development of the universe as a whole. If we are talking about the Big Bang however things become a little more obscure, and it is certainly arrogant for someone to claim that this couldn’t have been accidental when we have no idea if that’s truly the case or not. Natural mechanistic forces are not dictated by any sort of agency like humans are dictated by agency, this means that it is possible (maybe not plausible though) that it could have been accidental.

Problem of evil

This is the most intuitively plausible argument against gods existence in general, and also in my own personal estimation, the main likelihood that god doesn’t exist. Certainly most religious people have doubts with this but usually tend to gloss over it, that is the religious mindset.

The general consensus in philosophy (as of right now) is that it is not logically impossible for god to exist given evil, but evidentially implausible that he would exist given the amount of evil we see in the world (according to atheist philosophers at least). Obviously it still plausible god would have reasons to allow evil to occur, such as overcoming the pain and being a better person on the other side or affecting someone else in that same manner. However it seems intuitively implausible that certain evils god would allow if he is all good as defined. This is where there is inherently more room for intuition, as evil is more of an intuitive understanding of a state of mental or physical being according to someone’s own perception than just an independent reviewed study (which we don’t really have much of anyway for this problem).

I won’t be tackling this problem from a scholarly perspective as it’s mostly just brain rot. The way I like to tackle this problem is sampling different case studies of evil across human history and assigning them a factor out of 10 based on their intuitive responses they trigger in humans. This is because there isn’t really any other good way of tackling this problem besides intuitive philosophical thinking. Obviously if you wanted to conclude whether god does exist for sure, you would have to sample case studies of every single human in history and also rank each of their individual experiences of evil out of a factor of 10. You would also have to have every single human ever complete this task, as to limit individual biases. A confidence test or an average of these would probably give you a likely estimate of whether god exists or not. Obviously this is impossible so we can try this on a much less scale. For example:
Not getting the cake you wanted for your birthday is intuitively evil, but on an extremely minimal scale of perhaps a 0.13/10. Obviously this is autistic as fuck and no one thinks like this but we are trying to logically deduce whether god exists so we have to think like this. Lmao imagine if god exists and he’s autistic, ultimate JFL

However impaling someone and then raping their dead body would have a much higher scale of around an 8.7/10 (intuitively). This would be different based on everyone’s different level of intuition but somewhere around there. This is why this experiment is SO SO hard. We have no way of knowing as humans who’s intuition is more plausible based on perceptions of evil. Certainly, a three year old child may think that the example I gave has an intuitive level of evil of about a 10, whereas Ramirez may think it is about a -1 (JFL RR). This is why I believe it is impossible for us to know for certainty why evil exists and what constitutes as evil based on mere perception, but we can always make a logical inference and be correct (hopefully). JFL just imagine In reality if evil was actually good and we were just progressing backwards morally instead of forward. This is definitely not impossible but highly implausible.

Now for most people, a 10 would probably be along the lines of the greatest evils of all time, say unit 731, holocaust, torture of Junko Furuta. These seem intuitively impossible to most humans as to be anything lower than a 10 on the scale, but let’s say a 9.5 just to be generous to the more desensitised scums on this forum JFL. It does seem intuitively impossible for an all loving god to allow something like torture of Junko Furuta to happen (btw if you’re gonna look this up be warned it’ll probably ruin your day), especially when it resulted in her death and there was no benefit to gain from it for her (or anyone for that matter). Most people who come across this would logically conclude that god is a scum who allowed an innocent girl to get brutally tortured for something like his own sadistic pleasure, which makes no sense. Another thing is this would also affect someone who is looking for answers to this problem. Imagine if they came across this story and got traumatised and then subsequently lost their faith in god. Seems like a pretty stupid and useless thing for god to do to allow that to happen. Obviously as time progresses and more evil occurs, this gives us a greater intuitive inference to make about whether god does exist or not, and for me it seems more implausible than plausible that he does exist based on this problem, albeit not impossible.

The common apologetic response to this argument is that god does allow it happen, because of human free will etc etc. let’s just assume that free will does exist for the sake of the argument (obviously not something we can ever know but still). The main thing for me is that this doesn’t take away from the intrinsic suffering of said person who is still experiencing the state of evil, just because someone else’s free will allows them to act on that decision. Suffering is still a mental state at the end of the day, and just because someone has free will this doesn’t really prove anything to do with the argument.

Argument from eternal consciousness

This is the argument from eternal consciousness against gods existence. This isn’t a scholarly work it’s just an argument that I made up myself JFL, but it does have a high intrinsic plausibility factor, according to me at least.

Argument is basically:

P1: Gods existence is either mechanically determined, or consciously determined
P2: if gods existence is mechanically determined, then god can’t exist (as defined)

P3: gods existence is mechanically determined

Conc: therefore god can’t exist
It’s important to note that this argument makes the case of gods existence being impossible due to a logical contradiction with his attributes, not an argument of simply trying to deduce whether god does exist or not based on understanding of reality (take fine tuning as an example), but that the concept of god itself is fundamentally impossible, be it deistic or theistic.
The argument is basically stemming from the contingency argument, which is usually the most plausible argument for gods existence according to majority of philosophers. If you want to research this before hand that would probably be a good idea. It comes to the conclusion that god must exist because there has to be a necessary foundation to reality, an eternal agent which has always existed and brought about the universe. Obviously there’s a lot more to it but it’s mostly brain rot. My personal opinion however is that it’s quite likely that this argument is true, at least a factor of 8 (which is very high).

The main thing I’m trying to tackle here is the nature of this necessary existence, because the contingency argument doesn’t tackle that. This is more of an argument for deism but who cares it still counts as god (not in the traditional sense but just in general) it can still be used for the theistic god as well, but I would use different arguments to disprove that. The main point is that this entities existence would only be governed by mechanism or by agency. My argument is that it cannot be governed by agency.

Obviously it’s crazy to think about how something has always existed and how that’s even possible, because it breaks our intuition, so this might be hard but bear with me: for something to be eternal, that must mean that it’s existence is governed by it’s own intrinsic nature, and nothing external to it. Now I don’t think that it’s possible for a conscious being to exist necessarily, as mechanism seems fundamental. For something to have existed eternally and be conscious seems like a major contradiction. Consciousness entails agency, basically meaning that the being in question is alive and able to make decisions. But how can this be the case with an eternal existence. Agency requires the precondition of a decision to necessitate its existence, but since this being has always existed, how is it possible for it to make the decision for itself to exist, as the choice for it to exist must be preceded by a decision to result in that choice and then subsequently it’s existence.

But if it’s eternal, it cannot make the decision to exist since it has always existed. This plausibly leads to the conclusion that it’s existence must be mechanical, as mechanism would entail it’s eternal state of existence, being governed by some mechanism which in and of itself means that this being has existed forever. Another thing is that if this being is conscious, it must have the ability to decide to cease existing, otherwise it’s not conscious or an agent. But obviously this is a contradiction if it’s eternal, it must have a mechanism which stops it from existing as it has to exist by necessity (it’s non existence is impossible in every possible state of affairs).

People may argue that gods existence is dictated mechanically, but it still has the conscious ability to do things. This seems more like special pleading though. If I just have given an argument as to why it can’t be conscious, then that means it’s not conscious JFL. And then ultimately the discussion becomes pointless because it’s impossible to know the true nature of this entity. This is an example of how our intuition can be broken with thought experiments like these, which is why a belief in god should never be rational in my opinion (at least for high iq thinkers I’m not talking about the average person here). People need god and will always need god, but we’re interested in whether this so called being actually exists in reality.
But my argument would be that this facilitates a lack of belief in a god, due to these reasons. But I’m interested to hear peoples opinions on this argument because I’ve never seen this discussed online before, so let me know your thoughts (from both sides). I’m open to anyone trying to disprove what I’ve said (obviously given good reason) as I’m intellectually honest and open to worldview changes.
god is dead and we have killed him
 
DNR + Christ is King
 
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He seems to be the only one who is God. Forget Christianity forget Judaism Islam Catholics the Bible everything. No one can debunk this man right here, this unexplainable being who is better than Biden, muhammad, Gandhi, anyone. No dirt can be found on this being this thing, and if you truly truly ask for him to reveal himself to you he does I can’t explain to you you just have to try yourself. This guy is legit, truly the only looksmax/pill you need.
what a load of bullshit
 
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Jesus is the answer to everything, and anything.

My worries are gone.

What’s the meaning of life? Jesus.

How to ascend? Jesus.

How can I be truly happy everyday of my life regardless of foids or Stacie’s or my bf%? Jesus.

Where should we eat? Legit Jesus will give you the best place to eat.

Answer to depression Jesus Answer to broken marriage Jesus answer to war Jesus answer to abuse Jesus answer to addiction Jesus.

Truly truly based, the most insane, unexplainable, beautiful thing in the entire universe in all of history and reality, nothing even come close.

You don’t have to stop smoking or having sex or looksmaxing or being gay or read the Bible or go to church or stop going to fight clubs, just try to seek even a hint of this being and you will find everything.
 
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Jesus is the answer to everything, and anything.

My worries are gone.

What’s the meaning of life? Jesus.

How to ascend? Jesus.

How can I be truly happy everyday of my life regardless of foids or Stacie’s or my bf%? Jesus.

Where should we eat? Legit Jesus will give you the best place to eat.

Answer to depression Jesus Answer to broken marriage Jesus answer to war Jesus answer to abuse Jesus answer to addiction Jesus.

Truly truly based, the most insane, unexplainable, beautiful thing in the entire universe in all of history and reality, nothing even come close.

You don’t have to stop smoking or having sex or looksmaxing or being gay or read the Bible or go to church or stop going to fight clubs, just try to seek even a hint of this being and you will find everything.
that's just cope and you not taking responsibility for your own life
 
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He seems to be the only one who is God. Forget Christianity forget Judaism Islam Catholics the Bible everything. No one can debunk this man right here, this unexplainable being who is better than Biden, muhammad, Gandhi, anyone. No dirt can be found on this being this thing, and if you truly truly ask for him to reveal himself to you he does I can’t explain to you you just have to try yourself. This guy is legit, truly the only looksmax/pill you need.
I mean I agree he definitely is better than all those people especially that scum Muhammad lol but it depends it’s not confirmed he was resurrected, people can only speculate based on evidence. The evidence does point in that direction but there’s also factors which poInt in the opposite direction
 
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what a load of bullshit
When u become rich and ascend and fck Stacies daily and be in history books what then?

You won’t be happy. You won’t.
 
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When u become rich and ascend and fck Stacies daily and be in history books what then?

You won’t be happy. You won’t.
I am rich, gl and fuck stacies and I'm happy asf bro
 
I am rich, gl and fuck stacies and I'm happy asf bro
good for you m8
Hoping it stays that way but if it doesn’t, yk what to do.
 
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@yeeyeeslayer
 
good for you m8
Hoping it stays that way but if it doesn’t, yk what to do.
I won't do shit lol
I'll smoke a joint and i'm good again
jesus won't do nothing
 
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I won't do shit lol
I'll smoke a joint and i'm good again
jesus won't do nothing
Yeh some man that died 2 millennia ago is gonna fix my problems lmao
 
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Lowest
Introduction

This is the ultimate god doesn’t exist proof thread. I will be providing proof (mostly) here that it is not possible for a god to exist. This is also intended for users who don’t have a great understanding of the subject and want to learn more about it, as well as for the high iq atheist users who just want their biases confirmed JFL.

This was inspired by @mogstars recent low iq (JFL) thread on life is cucked if you’re an atheist. I’m tired of religious cucks on this forum waffling: Muh Atheist low iq, Muh Atheist have no morality or no sense of purpose JFL, still makes me laugh, and they give no proof for it either, just wafflers. People have been claiming this about atheism for as long as it’s been around, so these points are really nothing new and can be explained. I aim to try to stop these low iq threads. Or if they will continue at least have good arguments.

One thing to note is that I am writing this thread from an unbiased perspective (some may have a hard time believing this given my strong atheistic stances on this forum lol) but nevertheless I have obviously considered both sides of the argument before making this thread, and I came to the conclusion atheism > religion/deism. Don’t make the mistake of thinking this was a preconceived confirmation bias decision as I am well aware of these biases and try my best for them not to hinder my reasoning. If there was more proof god existed I would simply be making this thread but for the other side.

Another thing to note is that it shouldn’t matter if god doesn’t exist. People often fall into depression after losing their faith (just like I did). The thing is that atheism can give meaning, purpose everything that religion can. It just can’t give life after death. The thing is though imagine if everyone had the perfect life they wanted from birth to death, there wouldn’t really be a need for an afterlife. In my opinion the concept of an afterlife only exists because of evil, which is an intrinsic part of humans. People have a hard time accepting that and feel the desire for justice or an afterlife which can be devoid of any evil. Every human struggles with this no matter how much they will try to Larp. Just accept it the way it is.

The way I define god is in the traditional sense of omnipotent, omniscience, omnipresent and omnibenevolent. If you are unaware with those terms just Google them JFL I can’t be asked to explain it on here, but most should.

Brief discussion on religions

As some of you may know I used to be Muslim my whole life until I left It only last year. The aim of this thread isn’t to disprove religions but to disprove the concept of god as a whole. I happen to think Christianity is a decent religion and many users here are obviously well versed in it and believe it is real (obviously not including Old Testament atrocities, there aren’t really any good apologetics for those as well, as well as how confusing the trinity is). But aside from that it’s alright. My personal opinion on Christianity is that Jesus wasn’t resurrected, but there is a decent plausibility that he was resurrected, and is therefore god. I can’t be asked to go into that here though because it will just take up too much time.

It should be obvious to anyone with a brain that Islam is a false religion, but just in case it’s not here is a thread on Reddit (JFL) that does a really good job outlining hadiths and how they disprove Islam. Great apologetics from both sides with unbiased opinions. Most Muslims here will never have heard of these as they are usually hidden by our scholars (obviously). Hence why when you bring these up to Muslims they almost always have never heard them before: https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/s/q47mxhmgdU.

The funny thing is tbh I sometimes think about how it would be hilarious if everyone argues over the main 3 Abrahamic religions and the one true religion is just one which no one follows or has heard about JFL, from like 2000+ years ago. Cracks me up thinking about it. But yeh I do think all religions are false.

Anyway I have considered most of the arguments for god (some more well versed than others) but I have a pretty good understanding of the apologetics for them and the counter arguments against them. Ones I have studied:
Fine tuning

Ontological

Cosmological

Contingency

Moral

Personal experience

Resurrection

Miracles

There’s way more but I can’t be asked to list them all here or go through with them, as this is a proof god DOESNT exist thread. If you wanna learn them more there are plenty of videos and sources online explaining them. Just be aware that there’s obviously still work being done on all of them and u shouldn’t use this as a baseline for your religious beliefs, which brings me into my first argument against god.

Lack of evidence?

You probably know that most religious people claim that gods existence is obvious (I don’t think they know what obvious means JFL) but they will usually cite fine tuning argument or Muh look at the trees bullshit for their so called evidence.

Well I’m here to tell you it’s not obvious at all, just because stuff exists doesn’t mean the concept of god (which humans came up with btw) is a real entity manifesting externally from its conceptual standpoint. This is a fallacy but either way, this begs the question of why does god make it so painfully hard to provide any knowledge of his existence (outside of religion)? I’m not referring to divine hiddenness here because this already presupposes god to begin with, this is more along the lines of lack of CONCRETE evidence, one which doesn’t take years of studying and scientific work to arrive at a conclusion, more from a critical thinking standpoint I guess.

It shouldn’t seem intuitive to people that just by looking around this somehow means that god is real. We have had stuff which has always mind boggled our intuition and still does to this day (take quantum entanglement as an example). This logically follows that it should be possible for god not to exist and we still have the universe we see today. This part obviously isn’t conclusive proof it’s just the starting point for further exploration of the subject.

Another point religious people like to bring up is that god has to exist because the universe couldn’t have been brought about accidentally. However this isn’t really true, and seems similar to like an appeal to intuition in them saying god has to exist because there is no evidence against the world not being an accident. But this is only judged by their own intuition, and any smart person will know our intuition is subject to many biases that are accounted for when coming to conclusions based on independent verifiable evidence. It is certainly plausible that it could have been accidental, especially given the time frame that evolution occurred on and the development of the universe as a whole. If we are talking about the Big Bang however things become a little more obscure, and it is certainly arrogant for someone to claim that this couldn’t have been accidental when we have no idea if that’s truly the case or not. Natural mechanistic forces are not dictated by any sort of agency like humans are dictated by agency, this means that it is possible (maybe not plausible though) that it could have been accidental.

Problem of evil

This is the most intuitively plausible argument against gods existence in general, and also in my own personal estimation, the main likelihood that god doesn’t exist. Certainly most religious people have doubts with this but usually tend to gloss over it, that is the religious mindset.

The general consensus in philosophy (as of right now) is that it is not logically impossible for god to exist given evil, but evidentially implausible that he would exist given the amount of evil we see in the world (according to atheist philosophers at least). Obviously it still plausible god would have reasons to allow evil to occur, such as overcoming the pain and being a better person on the other side or affecting someone else in that same manner. However it seems intuitively implausible that certain evils god would allow if he is all good as defined. This is where there is inherently more room for intuition, as evil is more of an intuitive understanding of a state of mental or physical being according to someone’s own perception than just an independent reviewed study (which we don’t really have much of anyway for this problem).

I won’t be tackling this problem from a scholarly perspective as it’s mostly just brain rot. The way I like to tackle this problem is sampling different case studies of evil across human history and assigning them a factor out of 10 based on their intuitive responses they trigger in humans. This is because there isn’t really any other good way of tackling this problem besides intuitive philosophical thinking. Obviously if you wanted to conclude whether god does exist for sure, you would have to sample case studies of every single human in history and also rank each of their individual experiences of evil out of a factor of 10. You would also have to have every single human ever complete this task, as to limit individual biases. A confidence test or an average of these would probably give you a likely estimate of whether god exists or not. Obviously this is impossible so we can try this on a much less scale. For example:
Not getting the cake you wanted for your birthday is intuitively evil, but on an extremely minimal scale of perhaps a 0.13/10. Obviously this is autistic as fuck and no one thinks like this but we are trying to logically deduce whether god exists so we have to think like this. Lmao imagine if god exists and he’s autistic, ultimate JFL

However impaling someone and then raping their dead body would have a much higher scale of around an 8.7/10 (intuitively). This would be different based on everyone’s different level of intuition but somewhere around there. This is why this experiment is SO SO hard. We have no way of knowing as humans who’s intuition is more plausible based on perceptions of evil. Certainly, a three year old child may think that the example I gave has an intuitive level of evil of about a 10, whereas Ramirez may think it is about a -1 (JFL RR). This is why I believe it is impossible for us to know for certainty why evil exists and what constitutes as evil based on mere perception, but we can always make a logical inference and be correct (hopefully). JFL just imagine In reality if evil was actually good and we were just progressing backwards morally instead of forward. This is definitely not impossible but highly implausible.

Now for most people, a 10 would probably be along the lines of the greatest evils of all time, say unit 731, holocaust, torture of Junko Furuta. These seem intuitively impossible to most humans as to be anything lower than a 10 on the scale, but let’s say a 9.5 just to be generous to the more desensitised scums on this forum JFL. It does seem intuitively impossible for an all loving god to allow something like torture of Junko Furuta to happen (btw if you’re gonna look this up be warned it’ll probably ruin your day), especially when it resulted in her death and there was no benefit to gain from it for her (or anyone for that matter). Most people who come across this would logically conclude that god is a scum who allowed an innocent girl to get brutally tortured for something like his own sadistic pleasure, which makes no sense. Another thing is this would also affect someone who is looking for answers to this problem. Imagine if they came across this story and got traumatised and then subsequently lost their faith in god. Seems like a pretty stupid and useless thing for god to do to allow that to happen. Obviously as time progresses and more evil occurs, this gives us a greater intuitive inference to make about whether god does exist or not, and for me it seems more implausible than plausible that he does exist based on this problem, albeit not impossible.

The common apologetic response to this argument is that god does allow it happen, because of human free will etc etc. let’s just assume that free will does exist for the sake of the argument (obviously not something we can ever know but still). The main thing for me is that this doesn’t take away from the intrinsic suffering of said person who is still experiencing the state of evil, just because someone else’s free will allows them to act on that decision. Suffering is still a mental state at the end of the day, and just because someone has free will this doesn’t really prove anything to do with the argument.

Argument from eternal consciousness

This is the argument from eternal consciousness against gods existence. This isn’t a scholarly work it’s just an argument that I made up myself JFL, but it does have a high intrinsic plausibility factor, according to me at least.

Argument is basically:

P1: Gods existence is either mechanically determined, or consciously determined
P2: if gods existence is mechanically determined, then god can’t exist (as defined)

P3: gods existence is mechanically determined

Conc: therefore god can’t exist
It’s important to note that this argument makes the case of gods existence being impossible due to a logical contradiction with his attributes, not an argument of simply trying to deduce whether god does exist or not based on understanding of reality (take fine tuning as an example), but that the concept of god itself is fundamentally impossible, be it deistic or theistic.
The argument is basically stemming from the contingency argument, which is usually the most plausible argument for gods existence according to majority of philosophers. If you want to research this before hand that would probably be a good idea. It comes to the conclusion that god must exist because there has to be a necessary foundation to reality, an eternal agent which has always existed and brought about the universe. Obviously there’s a lot more to it but it’s mostly brain rot. My personal opinion however is that it’s quite likely that this argument is true, at least a factor of 8 (which is very high).

The main thing I’m trying to tackle here is the nature of this necessary existence, because the contingency argument doesn’t tackle that. This is more of an argument for deism but who cares it still counts as god (not in the traditional sense but just in general) it can still be used for the theistic god as well, but I would use different arguments to disprove that. The main point is that this entities existence would only be governed by mechanism or by agency. My argument is that it cannot be governed by agency.

Obviously it’s crazy to think about how something has always existed and how that’s even possible, because it breaks our intuition, so this might be hard but bear with me: for something to be eternal, that must mean that it’s existence is governed by it’s own intrinsic nature, and nothing external to it. Now I don’t think that it’s possible for a conscious being to exist necessarily, as mechanism seems fundamental. For something to have existed eternally and be conscious seems like a major contradiction. Consciousness entails agency, basically meaning that the being in question is alive and able to make decisions. But how can this be the case with an eternal existence. Agency requires the precondition of a decision to necessitate its existence, but since this being has always existed, how is it possible for it to make the decision for itself to exist, as the choice for it to exist must be preceded by a decision to result in that choice and then subsequently it’s existence.

But if it’s eternal, it cannot make the decision to exist since it has always existed. This plausibly leads to the conclusion that it’s existence must be mechanical, as mechanism would entail it’s eternal state of existence, being governed by some mechanism which in and of itself means that this being has existed forever. Another thing is that if this being is conscious, it must have the ability to decide to cease existing, otherwise it’s not conscious or an agent. But obviously this is a contradiction if it’s eternal, it must have a mechanism which stops it from existing as it has to exist by necessity (it’s non existence is impossible in every possible state of affairs).

People may argue that gods existence is dictated mechanically, but it still has the conscious ability to do things. This seems more like special pleading though. If I just have given an argument as to why it can’t be conscious, then that means it’s not conscious JFL. And then ultimately the discussion becomes pointless because it’s impossible to know the true nature of this entity. This is an example of how our intuition can be broken with thought experiments like these, which is why a belief in god should never be rational in my opinion (at least for high iq thinkers I’m not talking about the average person here). People need god and will always need god, but we’re interested in whether this so called being actually exists in reality.
But my argument would be that this facilitates a lack of belief in a god, due to these reasons. But I’m interested to hear peoples opinions on this argument because I’ve never seen this discussed online before, so let me know your thoughts (from both sides). I’m open to anyone trying to disprove what I’ve said (obviously given good reason) as I’m intellectually honest and open to worldview changes.
lowest iq thread if u talk about god yeah its created bu human but real god is everything and my experiences proof that god or ethery controls your life and makes u to wake up
 
Lowest

lowest iq thread if u talk about god yeah its created bu human but real god is everything and my experiences proof that god or ethery controls your life and makes u to wake up
Judging by how you constructed this entire response it seems you are the one with low Iq my friend
 
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Yeh some man that died 2 millennia ago is gonna fix my problems lmao
lmao
omg did you see? some rivers are drying up! the moon has turned 0.005 degrees, he is coming!
 
lmao
omg did you see? some rivers are drying up! the moon has turned 0.005 degrees, he is coming!
It’s sad. They gonna be waiting for a long time Lmao until they shrivel finally
 
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I have no time for this no sense so i didnt used translator u are me but older version so its so stupid to talk to old yourself
Judging by how you constructed this entire response it seems you are the one with low Iq my frien
 
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It’s sad. They gonna be waiting for a long time Lmao until they shrivel finally
I just can't fathom how ppl believe in a mysterious 'power' that suddenly makes their whole life meaningful and happy. Life is just meaningless, there's nothing to life literally nothing
 
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1.) ) this isn’t me disagreeing. Rather, I am researching and using discernment, historical evidence, Non-biblical historical evidence, etc etc to determine the books and scriptures that should be in and shouldn’t be in or the passages that have been mistranslated.

A.) I used to just read and accept, then read for understanding for each passage,, then read to and check for contradictions, then conduct research on the history on how the bible was put together, books removed, added, translations, the oldest copies in the codex, Septuagint, and then do my own translations for each passage (Takes forever just for one book) etc.

B.) If I come across something I can’t find any historical context on and no other sources to help and using my oqn discernment and understanding fails then I go to the holy spirit for discernment that’s beyond myself. The holy spirit is basically received qhen you’re born again and to be born again you must be baptized and to be baptized to qhere it’s legitimate it must be by someone that has been given the holy spirit and you must be of age as baby baptizms are false since you do not have the ability to accept something you can’t understand. What age that is, it varies per person but probably around 5 years of age.



2.) When reviewing the top religions I found Islam to not only be pure plagiarism but Mohammud never performed any miracles and none of his so called prophecies ever came to fruition. This religion is similar to Mormonism but worse since it’s a satanic archaic death cult and their version of Jesus slaughters the Christians and Jeqs. Qe need a parody movie just for the laughable beliefs of the Islamic faith. The only reason I can see someone staying in this faith if they’re not low IQ or brainwashed is that they’re afraid of being killed for converting.



A.) The so called Christian God has prophecies that no man, no faith, no organization has ever produced in total amount and level of probability of coming to fruition. I believe there is a site that covers every single prophecy and the mathmatical odds for those prophecies to come true.



3.)As for the contradictions, it depends on the types of contradictions. For instance, James, John, Mark, Mattheq, etc all discuss the certain experiences in slightly different qays. For example one disciple didn’t mention the earth quake that occurred during the crucifixion, the resurrected form of Jesus was described slightly different as one said hair as white as snow and face like lightening and another said his head and hair were white like wool. There are endless examples of these differences but I believe since they’re human accounts of their experiences I’d expect them to remember different aspects of the different events they believed to be important enough to put into their books.



Overall, the Papacy had a major hand in removing many of the books over the years in the third century and again during the 17th century and adding in the works of Paul (Acts, all his letters, Hebrews) and 2 Peter is pseudepigrapha



Lastly, the bible isn’t even required to become a believe. As stated the law is written in our minds and hearts and even if you do not know his name, if you’re an Adamite and still have the mark of YAH in your DNA then you can still reach out to him and have a relationship. There are accounts of missionaries that have gone to the ends of the earth in small tribes that never get to hear about the bible at all but they spoke about some adults and children that knew who Jesus was either from their dreams or out of body experiences. These are somewhat similar to those who know of Jesus but don’t know who he truly is like Muslims know him to be a prophet and there are some that give their OBE hell experience and in their soul body automatically knew to call on Jesus and they were saved. Some of these Muslims were the most fanatical Muslims that would never convert in a million years from any earth experience but the OBE changed their lives. If you’re truly open just type in interviews of people experiencing heaven and or hell with NBE’s/OBE’s. You’ll find even the most radical atheists, or those of other faiths have been converted and give very similar accounts. I found hell so disturbing that I had issues sleeping for a couple weeks. I understand some people require to see to believe. The question then becomes why do some get to see and others don’t. With this being said, Lucifer can use deception and use NDE's/OBE's dreams or people using astral projection to deceive them so one has to use discernment.



The following verse comes to mind on these occurrences Deuteronomy 4:29 proclaims, “But if from there you seek the LORD your God, you will find him if you look for him with all your heart and with all your soul.” This verse teaches an important principle—everyone who truly seeks after God will find Him. If a person truly desires to know God, God will make Himself known.



I think just the videos I mentioned to check out in the school for prophets video on Prophecy I sent you and hell/heaven OBE’s/NDE’s especially of atheists or those of non Christian faiths along with the site that shows all the prophecies and the probability of them coming to fruition may be enough to ignite at least a curiosity to conduct more research. That’s the thing is no person is going to just convert you overnight. It may take months or years of research, prayer, etc. The main things I looked into qas the prophecies, archaeological evidence, scientific evidence, and the Edomites doing everything in their nature to convert people to false religions, theoretical pseudo science and knowing their history as Israelite killers.



You don’t need to be a conspiracy theorist to understand their goal is world domination, enslavement, depopulation, and oppression as the evidence is not only all around you but it’s in their Talmudic books.



I am currently focusing on the Shroud of Turin which as a previous atheist I mocked and laughed at because our superior carbon dating technique proved it qas a fraud over 3.5 decades ago. Little did my arrogant ass know that there was major conflicts of interest, poor scientific methods used, and covering up the methodology for 30 years until a freedom of information act qas used to expose this carbon dating as a hoax and complete fraud and not real legitimate science. It’s quite a fascinating relic and perhaps the most studied ancient piece of material ever studied in history. It has never been to be duplicated/replicated even with our much more advanced technology. The one thing that claimed to debunk it is a proven fraud.
Thing is for me it just seems dumb if you don’t require the bible for your faith, because isn’t that what the whole of Christianity is based upon? It’s based upon the resurrection but that’s only known through the bible which you are then maybe cherry picking if there’s something there which doesn’t make sense like a supposed contradiction

Also what’s your opinion on Old Testament atrocities because I haven’t heard any good apologetics for those? Most people just accept it’s there and have to ignore it like they do in Islam lmfao. And yeh I would agree islam is the most obvious plagiarised religion ever people usually convert for alternative reasons that don’t involve actual belief in the religion usually some political gain or financial or emotional.
 
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I have no time for this no sense so i didnt used translator u are me but older version so its so stupid to talk to old yourself
Nigga you speaking Russian I can’t understand a word ur saying
 
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I just can't fathom how ppl believe in a mysterious 'power' that suddenly makes their whole life meaningful and happy. Life is just meaningless, there's nothing to life literally nothing
I wouldn’t say it’s meaningless there’s just no objective meaning
 
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I wouldn’t say it’s meaningless there’s just no objective meaning
I'm too far down the rabbithole for life to atleast have some meaning lmao
there's life and then there isn't
 
I'm too far down the rabbithole for life to atleast have some meaning lmao
there's life and then there isn't
So your a hedonist then? Cuz u said u fuck stacies and stuff and ur rich so I’m assuming that’s true
 
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So your a hedonist then? Cuz u said u fuck stacies and stuff and ur rich so I’m assuming that’s true
yea I am tho but I truly believe I'd be happy homeless too yk
I'm just trying to make a good time everyday
 
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nigga go watch pornhub or something
are you fbi or sum lmao
I’m horny just being honest sorry dude you know how we are. You’re funny tho
 
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