Megathread about DHT and 5a reductase inhibitors

[Jonas2k7]

This is a mega discussion thread designed to clear some questions about DHT.

• What are the effects of DHT on the body after puberty? / Is DHT useless after puberty?
• Is the use of 5a reductase inhibitors a good idea and why not?
• Unresearched aspects of DHT on mental health and other aspects of the body?
• What does the use of 5a reductase inhibitors inhibit besides DHT? / Other (positive?) effects of 5a reductase?
• Other undiscussed aspects of DHT etc.?

Tagging users from the last thread that seemed to like/dislike the use of 5a reductase inhibitors:

Pro:
@Orc @Clavicular

Contra:
@ConfusedBolivian @cc_7373 @pumpeduppecs @nuisance @20/04/2008 @NZb6Air

Let's discuss this topic like real aristocrats, we are in the golden age of Looksmaxxing and shiet @enchanted_elixir

 

[ConfusedBolivian]

Androgen Physiology, Pharmacology, Use and Misuse - Endotext - NCBI Bookshelf

Fin/Dut faggies pls de bunk this, thank you

 

[PsychoH]

bump.

 

[looksmaxxing223]

tag me too bhai if u find anything good

 

[halloweed]

Me @wastedspermcel @MA_ascender and @Outerz14 brought DHT to the light again

 

[Outerz14]

Me @wastedspermcel @MA_ascender and @Outerz14 brought DHT to the light again

Just give me halotestein

 

[Jonas2k7]

Androgen Physiology, Pharmacology, Use and Misuse - Endotext - NCBI Bookshelf

Fin/Dut faggies pls de bunk this, thank you

How fast bro

But this makes the most sense IMO, DHT isn't as useless as it seems

 

[cc_7373]

What are the effects of DHT on the body after puberty? / Is DHT useless after puberty?

Already answered this on the previous thread

 

[piec]

Androgen Physiology, Pharmacology, Use and Misuse - Endotext - NCBI Bookshelf

Fin/Dut faggies pls de bunk this, thank you

nigger nobody is reading this besides the most dedicated schizophrenics

if you want to have a scientific discussion cut out the part that you think supports your thesis best, not just like some whole ass fucking book about ALL androgens not just DHT

 

[Jonas2k7]

Already answered this on the previous thread

Here are some effects of dht:

DHT Lowers Muscle Weakness
DHT Lowers Gyno risk
DHT Lowers Anxiety, Fear, & Depression
DHT Lowers Chronic Fatigue
DHT Lowers Erectile dysfunction
DHT Lowers Micropenis risk (during fetal development & puberty)
DHT Lowers Insulin Resistance & T2 Diabetes
DHT Lowers Blood Pressure & Heart Disease
DHT Lowers Excess Estrogen
DHT Lowers Cognitive Decline

Theres are XY chromosome males who get born with female genitalia because they have mutations which makes it so that they cant produce dht
Dht is also 5 times as potent as testosterone, doesnt aromatize into esterogen and instead antagonizes it different from testosterone

 

[ConfusedBolivian]

nigger nobody is reading this besides the most dedicated schizophrenics

if you want to have a scientific discussion cut out the part that you think supports your thesis best, not just like some whole ass fucking book about ALL androgens not just DHT

You can use AI to simplify it and resume it

 

[NZb6Air]

Post puberty, it's useless for most people but essential for people with a different cognitive structure : GABAARs https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.pneurobio.2013.07.005 etc and there's some unkown shit about its epigenetic https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.jsxm.2021.05.009 and trasgenerational effects https://sci-hub.se/10.3390/ijms22031242

Literally nobody in the world has the expertise to deny or explain how this is irrelevant lol

If you get 0 side effects from one DUT pill then you're good, if you do then try RU only for hair

GHKcu, Accutane and Hair System if u still don't want to/can't

 

[cc_7373]

mental health

Has effects on that too

 

[Jonas2k7]

and there's some unkown shit about its epigenetic https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.jsxm.2021.05.009

• Peyronie’s disease, along with
  changes in penile length and testicular size, are reported in
  patients who have taken 5ARI.
• We found that pathways involv-
  ing extracellular matrix regulation (including the “matrisome”),
  cell junction organization, and connective tissue health were
  down-regulated.
• Neurological Effects: Neuro-steroids
  Although neuro-steroids levels should return to normal fol-
  lowing discontinuation of 5ARI, we identified persistent changes
  in gene expression in study group patients that may explain the
  preservation of changes in levels of progesterone, testosterone,
  and their metabolites
• Separately from the effects of neuro-hormones, processes con-
  trolling nerve cell health appear to be impacted by 5ARI exposure
• Many of our patients reported musculoskeletal complaints,
  including fatigue, muscle atrophy, and joint pain, along with
  skin changes and visual disturbances

Conclusion:
At this time, patients should be informed regarding possible
side effects of 5ARI that may persist even following discontinua-
tion of treatment as part of their counseling.

 

[Just a Mogger]

Apply DHT gel on hairline for androgenic masculine effect

 

[´´´´´´´´]

short answer: just take 0.5mg dutasteride every day for your entire life

 

[kriz44]

DerekMPMD advice. If you're worried get bloodwork. (T, free T, DHT, Estradiol (E2), SHBG, Albumin - optional). Bloodwork's done via LC/MS-MS not ECLIA or EIA. ECLIA methodology is not very accurate so you need a sensitive assay version.

Is everything in the normal reference range. Is your DHT high or is it already bottom end of the reference range so that when you take 5ar it's gonna get nuked and you'll experience sides. How high is your T, could T in one's case save low DHT. Estradiol is it low or is it high, if it's too low you feel like an asexual, if too high you'll have libido but no function, 5ar increases estradiol. I know some of these things are not accurate anyway but it's the most you could do I guess.

If the bloodwork doesn't give any warning signs then before you take 5ar use this advice someone else recommended in a thread. "If you take fin I recommend to first measure your dick-size and get a good baseline of how horny and energetic you are. Then see how fin affects you.". No this is not in worry of dick shrinkage etc. It's just so you know yourself from writing it down how things were before. Then you don't convince yourself either rightfully or wrongfully whether you're having nocebo effect because either way is dangerous.

From what I've heard people on T etc can manipulate their hormone profile so that they get benefits from 5ar and also maintain all body's normal function.

 

[Jonas2k7]

bump

 

[Jonas2k7]

Over for .org

That's what @enchanted_elixir was talking about

 

[halloweed]

Over for .org

View attachment 3228407
That's what @enchanted_elixir was talking about

Thread 'DHT posts’
https://looksmax.org/threads/dht-posts.1179149/

 

[pumpeduppecs]

I’m no scientist so I can’t say anything for sure but 100% of the time I look up post history of people who are rabidly pro finasteride it’s soy guzzling brainwashed far left tranny worshipping faggots. The kind of person to stand in line and wait for a Covid vaccine when they first came out. These people have been wrong about literally everything so I’m not risking my manhood based on their “trust the science”.

On top of that my hair has always been shit (my worse trait) even before I started receding and I am a very masculine dimorphic person with a very large penis and tall (my best trait). So it doesn’t make any sense logically for me to risk my best trait to save my worse trait. The way I see it my DHT has been good to me so I’m not gonna fuck around with it.

 

[TitusA]

This is a mega discussion thread designed to clear some questions about DHT.

• What are the effects of DHT on the body after puberty? / Is DHT useless after puberty?
• Is the use of 5a reductase inhibitors a good idea and why not?
• Unresearched aspects of DHT on mental health and other aspects of the body?
• What does the use of 5a reductase inhibitors inhibit besides DHT? / Other (positive?) effects of 5a reductase?
• Other undiscussed aspects of DHT etc.?

Tagging users from the last thread that seemed to like/dislike the use of 5a reductase inhibitors:

Pro:
@Orc @Clavicular

Contra:
@ConfusedBolivian @cc_7373 @pumpeduppecs @nuisance @20/04/2008 @NZb6Air

Let's discuss this topic like real aristocrats, we are in the golden age of Looksmaxxing and shiet @enchanted_elixir
View attachment 3228232

Its important before puberty but not important in most after. Some people have an unlucky polymorphism where it can cause depression if u block dht but theirs a supp/drug u cn take to counter this. Look it up leo and longevity talked about it at some point.

Basically every man over 22 or 23 should be on a 5ar inhibitor tho.

 

[Jonas2k7]

bump

 

[Jonas2k7]

@nuisance @DR. NICKGA @Always Stay You

 

[Always Stay You]

Its important before puberty but not important in most after. Some people have an unlucky polymorphism where it can cause depression if u block dht but theirs a supp/drug u cn take to counter this. Look it up leo and longevity talked about it at some point.

Basically every man over 22 or 23 should be on a 5ar inhibitor tho.

No, androgens still influence brain development which happens until age 25 MINIMUM.

And there's no way of knowing if you possess this unlucky polymorphism, and it doesn't just cause depression, it can cause a range of severe mental side effects. Plus atrophy of penile tissue.

Not worth the gamble imo. I'd rather just fraud with a wig 24/7 if I was balding than turn into a whole new person and get a whole new smaller penis.

 

[yue]

No, androgens still influence brain development which happens until age 25 MINIMUM.

this is the biggest load of bollocks, everything influences brain development throughout your entire life, it's a meaningless statement

 

[TitusA]

No, androgens still influence brain development which happens until age 25 MINIMUM.

And there's no way of knowing if you possess this unlucky polymorphism, and it doesn't just cause depression, it can cause a range of severe mental side effects. Plus atrophy of penile tissue.

Not worth the gamble imo. I'd rather just fraud with a wig 24/7 if I was balding than turn into a whole new person and get a whole new smaller penis.

I told you you can take something to counter it if you have the polymorphism(which based on studies is extremely rare). Also taking them at 22 or 23 will not negatively efefect u we are not reccomending 16 year olds hop on 5ar.

Framl;y I tjhink you have been reading too many neurotic weirdos on reddits talking negatively and thts where your opinion comes from.

 

[DR. NICKGA]

Post puberty, it's useless for most people but essential for people with a different cognitive structure : GABAARs https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.pneurobio.2013.07.005 etc and there's some unkown shit about its epigenetic https://sci-hub.se/10.1016/j.jsxm.2021.05.009 and trasgenerational effects https://sci-hub.se/10.3390/ijms22031242

Literally nobody in the world has the expertise to deny or explain how this is irrelevant lol

If you get 0 side effects from one DUT pill then you're good, if you do then try RU only for hair

GHKcu, Accutane and Hair System if u still don't want to/can't

Bullshit again

 

[DR. NICKGA]

Dht after 18+ is usseless

 

[Jonas2k7]

Bullshit again

Dht after 18+ is usseless

Can you explain why? The other users provided studies proving their points my Dr Nigga

 

[Always Stay You]

I told you you can take something to counter it if you have the polymorphism(which based on studies is extremely rare). Also taking them at 22 or 23 will not negatively efefect u we are not reccomending 16 year olds hop on 5ar.

Framl;y I tjhink you have been reading too many neurotic weirdos on reddits talking negatively and thts where your opinion comes from.

Never been on reddit. I just took finasteride by mistake (not even for baldness) and eviscerated my brain, dick, everything.

I'm done trying to warn people about finasteride tbh. It's pointless. So many paranoid, insecure, balding people take finasteride knowing it’s unnatural and that androgen deprivation could be dangerous, thinking if they scream that PFS is fake loud enough, maybe it actually will be.

At the end of the day, chances of PFS are low, less than 1%. It's your life so just do what you want.

 

[TitusA]

Never been on reddit. I just took finasteride by mistake (not even for baldness) and eviscerated my brain, dick, everything.

I'm done trying to warn people about finasteride tbh. It's pointless. So many paranoid, insecure, balding people take finasteride knowing it’s unnatural and that androgen deprivation could be dangerous, thinking if they scream that PFS is fake loud enough, maybe it actually will be.

At the end of the day, chances of PFS are low, less than 1%. It's your life so just do what you want.

Whtever u got unlucky and got a bad side effect ( I told u theirs something u cn take to fix it) most people dont. You can look at any drug and theirs the risk of a terrible side effect (usually low in prescription drugs). Just because u got unlucky it doesnt mean other men should go bald.

Also going bald will give u the same symptoms anyway u will be depressed and get no pusssy.

 

[Saint Casanova]

Never been on reddit. I just took finasteride by mistake (not even for baldness) and eviscerated my brain, dick, everything.

I'm done trying to warn people about finasteride tbh. It's pointless. So many paranoid, insecure, balding people take finasteride knowing it’s unnatural and that androgen deprivation could be dangerous, thinking if they scream that PFS is fake loud enough, maybe it actually will be.

At the end of the day, chances of PFS are low, less than 1%. It's your life so just do what you want.

How old are you when you took it ? I have a theory that the younger you take it, the worse it could impact you, especially genitalia and brain development. Should only really take it past 25.

 

[craven]

Me @wastedspermcel @MA_ascender and @Outerz14 brought DHT to the light again

Didnt tag me in the squad again faggot i will seriously molest you with e2 gel

 

[nuisance]

This is a mega discussion thread designed to clear some questions about DHT.

• What are the effects of DHT on the body after puberty? / Is DHT useless after puberty?
• Is the use of 5a reductase inhibitors a good idea and why not?
• Unresearched aspects of DHT on mental health and other aspects of the body?
• What does the use of 5a reductase inhibitors inhibit besides DHT? / Other (positive?) effects of 5a reductase?
• Other undiscussed aspects of DHT etc.?

Tagging users from the last thread that seemed to like/dislike the use of 5a reductase inhibitors:

Pro:
@Orc @Clavicular

Contra:
@ConfusedBolivian @cc_7373 @pumpeduppecs @nuisance @20/04/2008 @NZb6Air

Let's discuss this topic like real aristocrats, we are in the golden age of Looksmaxxing and shiet @enchanted_elixir
View attachment 3228232

Im neither pro or contra on the use of 5-AR inhibitors.

After researching 5-ar inhibitors for years the only conclusion I could logically come to is that finasteride is not a one-size-fits-all all drug there are factors you can control and factors you cannot control.

The reason people like @Orc and @Clavicular are not worried about side effects is because they inject themselves with supraphysiological levels of testosterone. This testosterone picks up the slack that is lost by reduction of dht. If you have a low testosterone baseline already before using finasteride you could run into problems with libido, ed, mental.

Another problem that could arise which I believe I have, is dht is a very good antagonizer of estrogen, even when some people have good bloodwork which I do (my test, e2, prolactin) is all in range they could still run into estrogen-related side effects such as gynecomastia, low libido, and ED. I seem to only deal with gynecomastia pains although taking action like lowering my bodyfat from 20% to now I'm nearing 10% helped tremendously.

In my opinion if your androgen profile is high and your body is not sensitive to estrogen you should not have any problems using fin.

You may have seen my post on me "quitting" finasteride but I regret making that post because the low libido was caused by other factors like university stress, I broke up with my girlfriend, i was eating 1300 calories a day. And the brain demasculation aspect I mentioned was caused by my not working out for a whole month rotting in my room 8 hours a day studying. After fixing these things my libido came back to normal.

Regardless of what people might say there is nothing healthy about taking finasteride there is always a trade off, it could be barely noticeable gym performance loss, less beard or chest hair and other small unnoticeable changes. Or it could be something more sinister.

Regarding DHT's role after puberty, I wouldn't say it's useless but I believe that testosterone picks up the slack. I don't see DHT developing anything in the body after the age of 20 in most men if testosterone levels are optimal.

These men were born with 5ar deficiency except the one in the middle of the group. Other than a micropenis there doesn't seem to be any other problems with them they even have erections and a libido.

"At birth, the affected males (46 XY) have a clitoral-like phallus, bifid scrotum and urogenital sinus. The testes are in the inguinal canals or labial-scrotal folds. The Wolffian structures are normally differentiated; there are no Mullerian structures. At puberty a muscular male habitus develops with growth of the phallus and scrotum, voice change and no gynecomastia. The subjects have erections, ejaculations and a libido directed towards females. They have decreased body hair, a scant to absent beard, no temporal hair line recession and a small prostate. Testicular biopsy reveals a normal testis. The mean plasma T levels in affected adults are significantly higher"

However I would never recommend the oral version of dutasteride or finasteride even at low doses I don't see the point at putting more risk to your body by making it go 100% systemic when we have topical finasteride.

This is a very good double blind placebo study done recently on over 400 people comparing oral vs topical finasteride. Before this study It was believed that finasteride just builds up in the system over time and it does not matter how you take it.

I belive the oral dose was 1mg and the topical dose was 0.2ml of spray of a 0.2% concentration which would be 0.5mg of exposure however we know that that would not be fully absorbed.

The results are clear after 168 days topical finasteride lowered serum dht significantly less and new hair counts were very close to the oral version.

A 20% difference is huge it could be the difference between side effects or no side effects.

You could even use lower concentrations of topical finasteride such as 1ml of 0.025%, some people even see results or maintenance on 0.01%. Liposomal versions of finasteride are thought to be 18x less systemic although they are hard to acquire a customized dose.

I personally belive 5-ar inhibitors are worth taking as the social and mental impact of hairloss outweighs the minimal risk in most men.

 

[Jonas2k7]

Im neither pro or contra on the use of 5-AR inhibitors.

After researching 5-ar inhibitors for years the only conclusion I could logically come to is that finasteride is not a one-size-fits-all all drug there are factors you can control and factors you cannot control.

The reason people like @Orc and @Clavicular are not worried about side effects is because they inject themselves with supraphysiological levels of testosterone. This testosterone picks up the slack that is lost by reduction of dht. If you have a low testosterone baseline already before using finasteride you could run into problems with libido, ed, mental.

Another problem that could arise which I believe I have, is dht is a very good antagonizer of estrogen, even when some people have good bloodwork which I do (my test, e2, prolactin) is all in range they could still run into estrogen-related side effects such as gynecomastia, low libido, and ED. I seem to only deal with gynecomastia pains although taking action like lowering my bodyfat from 20% to now I'm nearing 10% helped tremendously.

In my opinion if your androgen profile is high and your body is not sensitive to estrogen you should not have any problems using fin.

You may have seen my post on me "quitting" finasteride but I regret making that post because the low libido was caused by other factors like university stress, I broke up with my girlfriend, i was eating 1300 calories a day. And the brain demasculation aspect I mentioned was caused by my not working out for a whole month rotting in my room 8 hours a day studying. After fixing these things my libido came back to normal.

Regardless of what people might say there is nothing healthy about taking finasteride there is always a trade off, it could be barely noticeable gym performance loss, less beard or chest hair and other small unnoticeable changes. Or it could be something more sinister.

Regarding DHT's role after puberty, I wouldn't say it's useless but I believe that testosterone picks up the slack. I don't see DHT developing anything in the body after the age of 20 in most men if testosterone levels are optimal.

These men were born with 5ar deficiency except the one in the middle of the group. Other than a micropenis there doesn't seem to be any other problems with them they even have erections and a libido.

"At birth, the affected males (46 XY) have a clitoral-like phallus, bifid scrotum and urogenital sinus. The testes are in the inguinal canals or labial-scrotal folds. The Wolffian structures are normally differentiated; there are no Mullerian structures. At puberty a muscular male habitus develops with growth of the phallus and scrotum, voice change and no gynecomastia. The subjects have erections, ejaculations and a libido directed towards females. They have decreased body hair, a scant to absent beard, no temporal hair line recession and a small prostate. Testicular biopsy reveals a normal testis. The mean plasma T levels in affected adults are significantly higher"
View attachment 3231018 View attachment 3231024

However I would never recommend the oral version of dutasteride or finasteride even at low doses I don't see the point at putting more risk to your body by making it go 100% systemic when we have topical finasteride.

This is a very good double blind placebo study done recently on over 400 people comparing oral vs topical finasteride. Before this study It was believed that finasteride just builds up in the system over time and it does not matter how you take it.

I belive the oral dose was 1mg and the topical dose was 0.2ml of spray of a 0.2% concentration which would be 0.5mg of exposure however we know that that would not be fully absorbed.

The results are clear after 168 days topical finasteride lowered serum dht significantly less and new hair counts were very close to the oral version.
View attachment 3231045View attachment 3231047
A 20% difference is huge it could be the difference between side effects or no side effects.

You could even use lower concentrations of topical finasteride such as 1ml of 0.025%, some people even see results or maintenance on 0.01%. Liposomal versions of finasteride are thought to be 18x less systemic although they are hard to acquire a customized dose.

I personally belive 5-ar inhibitors are worth taking as the social and mental impact of hairloss outweighs the minimal risk in most men.

mirin the high effort, bumperino

 

[Jonas2k7]

@Clavicular @Orc niggas respond to this shit it's important

progress of our research organisation (.org) or smth

 

[halloweed]

@Clavicular @Orc niggas respond to this shit it's important

progress of our research organisation (.org) or smth

Bruh clav is gonna say DHT is useless idk y u tagged him

 

[Jonas2k7]

Bruh clav is gonna say DHT is useless idk y u tagged him

I wanna see his arguments for this statement