Need help choosing a surgeon.

[Pumanator]

Hey guys after spending too much hours here and having too many private ratings and consults i decided to go for hard maxing. Unfortunately i can't post photos and x rays for some kind of reason. My current failo's are:

- Recessed jaw in terms of forward grown and bigonial width
- My chin that isn't aligned probably and tilted to the left.
- Deviated nose septum (nose is / instead of straight downwards). Nose itself does not got a bump from the side view.
- my upper palate is rotated causing my jaw to move to the left. My lower palette is perfect horizontal and my upper not, forcing my teeth to move sideways.
- Barely existing cheekbones causing midface recession.
In september I opt to go for surgery. However different surgeons have different approaches to fix the problem.
I already got the braces and are surgery ready. I only need to to book the operation date.
The following 2 surgeons i got in my mind:

Zarrinbal in Germany or Ramieri in Italy.
The approaches are:

Zarrinbal:
- Bimax + Rhinoplasty first
- Chin wing + ZSO second round.

Ramieri:
- Bimax + Genioplasty + rhinoplasty + Intraorbital implants (I think with saddle).
- At second round i can get a Jaw implant.

Both approaches cost the same.
This are the pros and cons of each:

Zarrinbal
Pros:
- he does a lot of cosmetic work and got good aesthetic view, some call him conservative.
- Got a few really good transformation

cons:
- Doesn't do implants
- No 3D planning. He does everything purely by the eye, but got a good aesthetic view.
- Members here told me that intraorbital implants are superior compared to ZSO. ZSO isn't done that often so i can't compare.

Ramieri:
Pros:
- Is good with 3D software
- Can do custom bimaxes, he told me that because of the rotation in my upper palate he probably needs custom plates and screws for the surgery.
- He told me he can put my chin perfectly symmetrical back, since it will probably be bad aligned.

Cons:
- In a consult he told me he is more a functional doctor then a Aesthetic one. Seems to be good at aesthetic also, but he may be more conversative.
- Way longer hospital stay due to multiple surgeries in 1 go.

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

I'd go with ramieri from everything I've heard about both of them. I've never really seen a good chin wing result and zarrinbal does them all the time.

 

[Pumanator]

I'd go with ramieri from everything I've heard about both of them. I've never really seen a good chin wing result and zarrinbal does them all the time.

yeah. At the before and afters Zarrinbal got really good bimax before and afters, i think he is more aggressive. I am just not impressed by the chin wing and the ZSO. Ramieri does intraorbital implants in the same surgery with seems goed. I just can't compare the Bimax before and afters from both of them. i head Ramieri does also some things more. Liks changes muscles or fats or something during the surgery.

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

yeah. At the before and afters Zarrinbal got really good bimax before and afters, i think he is more aggressive. I am just not impressed by the chin wing and the ZSO. Ramieri does intraorbital implants in the same surgery with seems goed. I just can't compare the Bimax before and afters from both of them. i head Ramieri does also some things more. Liks changes muscles or fats or something during the surgery.

I think both of these surgeries are either gonna give you negligible changes or even make you worse

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c7/41/a8/c741a8fadf97f6f1840af15c9cf520d7.jpg pic won't upload

 

[bossman]

zso and infraorbital implants give projection in two different planes. i don't think they're procedures for the same issue.

 

[Pumanator]

zso and infraorbital implants give projection in two different planes. i don't think they're procedures for the same issue.

What you mean?
When i asked doctor Z about ZSO he mentioned that ZSO is going to give forward and sideways cheekbones projections. Intraorbital does the same i think, but also under eye right?

 

[Deleted member 16834]

I think both of these surgeries are either gonna give you negligible changes or even make you worse

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c7/41/a8/c741a8fadf97f6f1840af15c9cf520d7.jpg pic won't upload

Wow this guy fucking sucks. Major descension

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Wow this guy fucking sucks. Major descension

its a decent result?

 

[valhalar]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c7/41/a8/c741a8fadf97f6f1840af15c9cf520d7.jpg pic won't upload

That ZSO result is terrible, she didn't need it.

I would go with implants over ZSO tbh. More customisable and natural contour. Just don't go overboard...

 

[lilhorizontal32]

That ZSO result is terrible, she didn't need it.

I would go with implants over ZSO tbh. More customisable and natural contour. Just don't go overboard...

it doesnt look terrible tbh, especially not on women

 

[bogii]

I'd choose ramieri, only because I heard Zarrinbal gained his hype by one user who may be paid or something and ramieri is here mentioned more often

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

What you mean?
When i asked doctor Z about ZSO he mentioned that ZSO is going to give forward and sideways cheekbones projections. Intraorbital does the same i think, but also under eye right?

idk according to eppley zso only gives you horizontal projection

 

[valhalar]

I would choose Ramieri for the 3D planning.

When he says he’s ‘functional’ he is trying to say he isn’t a plastic surgeon doing camouflage procedures. Italian doctors (because they are Italian) have a reputation for better aesthetics. It is the Germans who are actually ‘functional’ about it with less care for aesthetic. The two cultures inform the methods of their respective surgeons.

 

[Deleted member 16834]

its a decent result?

She looks horrible and blocky. Her mid mandible looks broken, cheeks look deformed and broken (and put together like a puzzle piece)

Good natural cheekbones look nothing like this.

You guys have zero eye for aesthetic. Zarnibal is beyond trash

 

[Deleted member 2729]

Ramieri all the way tbh

 

[eduardkoopman]

He does everything purely by the eye, but got a good aesthetic view.

This is something, that would make me a bit anxious. Because, what if the dude is having a bad day.
In that sense, a more pre-planned approach sounds like more constency, in results.

But than, When they are doing a srugery, and are actually working on it. I think usually things still will end up with a bit of improvisation, even when fully planned and so on. Because, things almost never goes 100% smooth and on, there always stuff comming up that they need to improvose a bit. It's a messy job, anyways, plastic surgery. It's not that easy of an invironment, to work away in.

So yeah.
it's giga important. the octor has a good sense of aestetics, proportions, and dhymorpism. Since they mostly work on women, they are more trained to be more close to what is ideal for women. and not men.

 

[poopmaster22]

How much is zarrinbal? I assumed he was like 100k

 

[needjawsurgery]

sounds like you should get exactly what gaia got from Ramieri, trimax + rhino + infras. skip the jaw implants imo they are risky and bsso should increase your bigonial width a little bit. You'll probably be happy enough after the bimax. I need the same thing bro.

 

[bogii]

sounds like you should get exactly what gaia got from Ramieri, trimax + rhino + infras. skip the jaw implants imo they are risky and bsso should increase your bigonial width a little bit. You'll probably be happy enough after the bimax. I need the same thing bro.

why are jaw implants risky? (I have rounded jaw and none projecting chin)

 

[eduardkoopman]

none projecting chin)

brutals

 

[bogii]

brutals

nah not so bad just not covering my big lips I'm beard frauding atm but don't want to fraud no more, is it worth it to go for surgery or just short beard fraud forever?

 

[Pumanator]

How much is zarrinbal? I assumed he was like 100k

Well I don't want to discuss prices here. But both costs around the same. Normal prices for the higher end surgeons, so 10k+ for bimax. O lying eu surgeon that costs more are Dr sailer and another Austrian surgeon.

 

[needjawsurgery]

why are jaw implants risky? (I have rounded jaw and none projecting chin)

They often look retarded, from what I've seen gonial angle implants struggle to replicate the sharp angular bone that should be there naturally, infraorbital implants don't have this problem as the bone is flat anyway. There's also a chance the muscle could detach and cause a lump on the side of your face.
This is a gonial angle implant done by Ramieri, in Ramieris defence he apparently didn't want to fit this implant but the patient really wanted it.

 

[bogii]

They often look retarded, from what I've seen gonial angle implants struggle to replicate the sharp angular bone that should be there naturally, infraorbital implants don't have this problem as the bone is flat anyway. There's also a chance the muscle could detach and cause a lump on the side of your face.
This is a gonial angle implant done by Ramieri, in Ramieris defence he apparently didn't want to fit this implant but the patient really wanted it.

so just cope with what you have?

 

[Pumanator]

so just cope with what you have?

I guess fillers is than the way to go. Sad the migrate and you have to reinject from time to time.

 

[needjawsurgery]

so just cope with what you have?

no, jaw implants can look really good and if you aren't happy its worth the risk in my opinion.

 

[bogii]

I guess fillers is than the way to go. Sad the migrate and you have to reinject from time to time.

should I cancel my cbct then and invest directly in fillers?

 

[bogii]

no, jaw implants can look really good and if you aren't happy its worth the risk in my opinion.

even if you could beardfraud your lower third?

 

[Pumanator]

should I cancel my cbct then and invest directly in fillers?

Depends I think. If you just need some contouring then fillers is the way to go. If you need more mass or got recession then surgery / implants.

 

[bogii]

Depends I think. If you just need some contouring then fillers is the way to go. If you need more mass or got recession then surgery / implants.

yea just contouring is what was told to me but I look like a fr subhuman without beard and my round jaw, can't go clean shaven ever in my life


good luck to you @Pumanator mirin your dedication bro

 

[lilhorizontal32]

She looks horrible and blocky. Her mid mandible looks broken, cheeks look deformed and broken (and put together like a puzzle piece)

Good natural cheekbones look nothing like this.

You guys have zero eye for aesthetic. Zarnibal is beyond trash

dont care about her mandible, was only talking about her cheeks

its not a great result by any means, but I don't think it would be a terrible result on a woman, IN MOTION. it still mogs her cheeks in the before

 

[Pumanator]

dont care about her mandible, was only talking about her cheeks

its not a great result by any means, but I don't think it would be a terrible result on a woman, IN MOTION. it still mogs her cheeks in the before

This is something, that would make me a bit anxious. Because, what if the dude is having a bad day.
In that sense, a more pre-planned approach sounds like more constency, in results.

But than, When they are doing a srugery, and are actually working on it. I think usually things still will end up with a bit of improvisation, even when fully planned and so on. Because, things almost never goes 100% smooth and on, there always stuff comming up that they need to improvose a bit. It's a messy job, anyways, plastic surgery. It's not that easy of an invironment, to work away in.

So yeah.
it's giga important. the octor has a good sense of aestetics, proportions, and dhymorpism. Since they mostly work on women, they are more trained to be more close to what is ideal for women. and not men.

Zarrinbal got some great before and afters.
Since i can't share photos here the link.

Chin wing + zygomatic osteotomy with DR Z. in October

Chin wing + zygomatic osteotomy with DR Z. in October

jawsurgeryforums.com

And from a user here:

Is Dr. Zarrinbal really that good?

Since he is considered a very skilled surgeon I need to ask if he really is that good. the only good transformation done by him is the transformation of "getlooksordietrying." the example on his website look like trash (in most cases). Is ramieri, raffaini or simonas grybauskas not better? can...

looksmax.org

There you can also see another user from lookism who visited him.

I'd choose ramieri, only because I heard Zarrinbal gained his hype by one user who may be paid or something and ramieri is here mentioned more often

 

[bogii]

Zarrinbal got some great before and afters.
Since i can't share photos here the link.

Chin wing + zygomatic osteotomy with DR Z. in October

Chin wing + zygomatic osteotomy with DR Z. in October

jawsurgeryforums.com

And from a user here:

Is Dr. Zarrinbal really that good?

Since he is considered a very skilled surgeon I need to ask if he really is that good. the only good transformation done by him is the transformation of "getlooksordietrying." the example on his website look like trash (in most cases). Is ramieri, raffaini or simonas grybauskas not better? can...

looksmax.org

There you can also see another user from lookism who visited him.

can't see the pics from second but first looks impressive, thought he doesn't use implants or was this something different?

 

[Pumanator]

can't see the pics from second but first looks impressive, thought he doesn't use implants or was this something different?

He doesn't do implant. Everything is done by cutting bone. There are not a lot of surgeons who do chin wings and ZSO. I was just reading other forums and they mentioned that ZSO isn't that good for males. Males want high cheekbones. They mentioned lamellar split osteotomy is better for males. I just cant find any info about it or what it exactly means.

 

[bogii]

He doesn't do implant. Everything is done by cutting bone. There are not a lot of surgeons who do chin wings and ZSO. I was just reading other forums and they mentioned that ZSO isn't that good for males. Males want high cheekbones. They mentioned lamellar split osteotomy is better for males. I just cant find any info about it or what it exactly means.

the same with chin shield, z seems to be one of the only ones who does it can't find much info about chin shield, but it's superior because it doesn't increase mentolabial fold

 

[Deleted member 18361]

I couldn’t imagine a life where I wasn’t an IMDO candidate and I had to choose between low grade surgeons

 

[Tobias Fünke]

Zarrinbal doesn't do CCW (or at least is hesitant to do it) and has allegedly botched it when he has tried. He seems fantastic for linear movements and osteometies though. Were it not for the fact that I desperately need CCW (longish midface and gummy smile) I would probably be choosing Zarrinbal myself.

 

[Pumanator]

Zarrinbal doesn't do CCW (or at least is hesitant to do it) and has allegedly botched it when he has tried. He seems fantastic for linear movements and osteometies though. Were it not for the fact that I desperately need CCW (longish midface and gummy smile) I would probably be choosing Zarrinbal myself.

yeah in my case i don't need ccw rotation. Even Ramieri said it. I am hesitant is that ramieri told me i probably need a custom bimax, since my upper palette needs to be rotated to fix it. My upper palette isn't symmetrical. Ramieri uses 3D software so he can just custom make the plates. Also with the genioplasty he can put my chin back perfect symmetrically. Zarrinbal does rhinoplasty himself. Ramieri needs to ask a colleague. Zarrinbal told be the BSSO cut will make my nose too big. Ramieri didn't mention anything about that.

 

[bogii]

yeah in my case i don't need ccw rotation. Even Ramieri said it. I am hesitant is that ramieri told me i probably need a custom bimax, since my upper palette needs to be rotated to fix it. My upper palette isn't symmetrical. Ramieri uses 3D software so he can just custom make the plates. Also with the genioplasty he can put my chin back perfect symmetrically. Zarrinbal does rhinoplasty himself. Ramieri needs to ask a colleague. Zarrinbal told be the BSSO cut will make my nose too big. Ramieri didn't mention anything about that.

fuark does z have good rhinoplasty results? and does he do online consultations?

 

[Pumanator]

fuark does z have good rhinoplasty results? and does he do online consultations?

No only in person. It are really good consultations. Best i had. Minaly cause he talk about details and the consult is 1h. You need to make scans in advance. If you wanna discuss details pm me.

 

[Deleted member 16834]

dont care about her mandible, was only talking about her cheeks

its not a great result by any means, but I don't think it would be a terrible result on a woman, IN MOTION. it still mogs her cheeks in the before

Her lower lids have less support now and her ogee curve looked like a awkwardly bitten apple.

Bigger so must be better than before

Again you have no eye for aesthetics. She looks like complete shit. You’re only arguing bc you wanted to get ZSO yourself and I’m destroying your cope

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Her lower lids have less support now and her ogee curve looked like a awkwardly bitten apple.

Bigger so must be better than before

Again you have no eye for aesthetics. She looks like shit. You’re only arguing bc you wanted to get ZSO yourself and I’m destroying your cope

Jfl I’m not getting ZSO

And like I said it doesn’t look great, but it still mogs her before where her cheekbones looked flat as hell which looks horrible on women

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Again you have no eye for aesthetics

Cope, I’ve literally known about facial aesthetics for more than a year longer than you

 

[Deleted member 16834]

Jfl I’m not getting ZSO

And like I said it doesn’t look great, but it still mogs her before where her cheekbones looked flat as hell which looks horrible on women imo

False again.

No amount of coping will make this look like normal cheekbones. It looks like a botched implant or a bonesmashing gone wrong result

ZSO is a unnatural cut. Natural cheekbones don’t have the irregular contouring that she has from the 3/4th. Not to mention the cut completely wrecked her infra/lateral undereye support that she barely had to begin with.

She descended hard. In her before she was closer to the facial averageness of her pheno.

 

[Deleted member 16834]

Cope, I’ve literally known about facial aesthetics for more than a year longer than you

I’m a second year dental student now stop yapping at me

 

[lilhorizontal32]

False again.

View attachment 1633569

No amount of coping will make this look like normal cheekbones. It looks like a botched implant or a bonesmashing gone wrong result

ZSO is a unnatural cut. Natural cheekbones don’t have the irregular contouring that she has from the 3/4th. Not to mention the cut completely wrecked her infra/lateral undereye support that she barely had to begin with.

She descended hard. In her before she was closer to the facial averageness of her pheno.

I’d prefer that than a face with upper maxillary hypoplasia. Obviously it’s not perfect but it would be less of a deal in motion, and with soft tissue stretching would mog her before

 

[lilhorizontal32]

I’m a second year dental student now stop yapping at me

What does that have to do with anything?

 

[Deleted member 16834]

I’d prefer that than a face with upper maxillary hypoplasia. Obviously it’s not perfect but it would be less of a deal in motion, and with soft tissue stretching would mog her before

Ofcourse you would. Bc you’re beyond retarded and born to botch your face.

Let’s look like a fag with irregular contured cheekbones while simultaneously nuking any undereye/lateral support

Let’s walk around with my new cheekbones that look worst than cheek implants and way more unnatural but but but they’re my bone so atleast I can sleep at night even though anyone with a eye can see that I look like a botched animal.

Nuance incel. They’re better way of fixing flat cheekbones than ZSO.

 

[Deleted member 16834]

What does that have to do with anything?

Stern reminder than being on this incel forum doesn’t mean that you know shit without credentials

Just bc you’ve read more autistic bs a year longer than me doesn’t justify than you know more than a person with actual credentials

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Ofcourse you would. Bc you’re beyond retarded and born to botch your face.

Let’s look like a fag with irregular contured cheekbones while simultaneously nuking any undereye/lateral support

Let’s walk around with my new cheekbones that look worst than cheek implants and way more unnatural but but but they’re my bone so atleast I can sleep at night even though anyone with a eye can see that I look like a botched animal.

Nuance incel. They’re better way of fixing flat cheekbones than ZSO.

I never said there wasn’t, obviously implants are the best fix. But to say that she looks WORSE in the after, I do disagree with that, she clearly looks better than her flat, hypoplastic before face that she had earlier, and wouldn’t be surprised if she had some facial swelling in that picture

And not gonna argue with someone who calls me an “incel” every time they have to argue jfl