New Study: Finasteride damages more than 10,000 genes

[Deleted member 2658]

Go bald
Or damage genes

Life of a baldcel jfl

Get a hairtransplant jfl

 

[Deleted member 773]

Just do like me and take topical fin if you're too afraid of sides wtf but if you're going bald and not taking serious action (ie. the only 2 working drugs (minox and fin)) and you're still on a site called looksmax.me (ie hoping to becomme GL) you're utterly retarded

Also it's been said before in the thread but 1) indian study 2) on women. Enough said, just trust third world country researchers over countries like the USA or Japan JFL

The Indian study on women was the old study the new one is on people with post fin syndrome I think

 

[AH1882]

Thats what I did. Its a cuck medicine. DHT is what gaves you dick, balls, jaw anything manly. Jfl at how people who don't no basic science. You have androgen dependent tissue and bone (jawline) no DHT everything can/will recesse over years.

Thank god my instincts kicked in when i took finasteride, as soon as i lost morning wood and sperm became liquid i sensed that i was transforming into a eunuch no matter how small the dose i took, i quit cold turkey JFL at taking poison.

are these side effects reversible?

Short answer NO. No really. Very Very high chance of life time damage.

 

[AH1882]

No I'm off fin, while I was on it I felt like absolute shit and had no sex drive.

I'd rather be a bald horny incel who fucks hookers than a NW1 sexless robot. Your sex drive affects your passion and masculinity in all aspects of your personality, not just getting your dick hard.

And the fact of been absolutely crippled with depression and anxiety. There was a lad in the UK that roped. He couldn't leave the house, sleep, fuck, nothing. Full on Hellish life. No worth taking these kikepills

 

[AH1882]

in on fear-mongering thread. y'all can fall for the fear-mongering and be bald meanwhile I'll be finning and winning.

Meck payroll - 1000 shekels per calendar month.

 

[Deleted member 5912]

Thats what I did. Its a cuck medicine. DHT is what gaves you dick, balls, jaw anything manly. Jfl at how people who don't no basic science. You have androgen dependent tissue and bone (jawline) no DHT everything can/will recesse over years.


Short answer NO. No really. Very Very high chance of life time damage.

then what happens to the people that used it?
are they fucked forever?

 

[Deleted member 773]

then what happens to the people that used it?
are they fucked forever?

Some people recover. I have full blown PFS. Ask me anything you want.

 

[Baldingman1998]

Thanks for the info I'm 100x more suicidal I took finasteride and I'm bald fucking hell

 

[Baldingman1998]

Some people recover. I have full blown PFS. Ask me anything you want.

Please tell me the side effects all of them please bro I'm scared now

 

[Baldingman1998]

Some people recover. I have full blown PFS. Ask me anything you want.

I think finasteride gave me Alzheimers srs and also weak sexdrive it's over IL kill myself

 

[The Bleach Pill]

I think finasteride gave me Alzheimers srs and also weak sexdrive it's over IL kill myself

bro dont give into the shit fear mongering. If ur reading this shit with a negative mindset ur going to undoubtedly nocebo urself

 

[AH1882]

then what happens to the people that used it?
are they fucked forever?

I used it. I bounced back ok. The people that got very sick off it, say ten years ago are still unwell today. Some recover, some recover a bit. Have you used it?

 

[AH1882]

I think finasteride gave me Alzheimers srs and also weak sexdrive it's over IL kill myself

Many different medicines fuck you up in so many ways. I believe you 100%

 

[Deleted member 5912]

I used it. I bounced back ok. The people that got very sick off it, say ten years ago are still unwell today. Some recover, some recover a bit. Have you used it?

Some people recover. I have full blown PFS. Ask me anything you want.

damn
i havent used it yet but i had it in my mind for when im older to use it
now there is no solution

 

[Deleted member 5912]

Some people recover. I have full blown PFS. Ask me anything you want.

hows your day to day life?
kevin mann told me these are just nocebo effects

 

[AH1882]

damn
i havent used it yet but i had it in my mind for when im older to use it
now there is no solution

Its the same for everyone man. Am in same boat..its just not worth it tho. Am starting dermarollering with different oils, I know its nothing soild tho.

 

[Deleted member 5912]

Its the same for everyone man. Am in same boat..its just not worth it tho. Am starting dermarollering with different oils, I know its nothing soild tho.

fuck
what about using it topically?
would it reduce the damage?
also what about ru58841 and ither topicals?

 

[AH1882]

fuck
what about using it topically?
would it reduce the damage?
also what about ru58841 and ither topicals?

Much better chance with ru58841
It can still enter your bloodstream. Buts more plates more dates youtube.com.
Users ru and roids. And he said no sides and kept his hair. I have been debating it recently.

 

[AH1882]

hows your day to day life?
kevin mann told me these are just nocebo effects

Kevin mann is shill

 

[Deleted member 5912]

Kevin mann is shill

what do you exactly mean?

 

[AH1882]

what do you exactly mean?

Paid to: , push a drug or an idea. There are many people, hair doctors, youtube people, Internet mods etc.. paid to say finastride is safe when they no it is not. Someone told me about 5 years ago that Kevin can't take fin because of sides. And gets money from some hair company.

 

[Deleted member 5912]

Paid to: , push a drug or an idea. There are many people, hair doctors, youtube people, Internet mods etc.. paid to say finastride is safe when they no it is not. Someone told me about 5 years ago that Kevin can't take fin because of sides. And gets money from some hair company.

wtf i trusted this faggot
he literally preaches it in his videos

 

[Lars2210]

Thats what I did. Its a cuck medicine. DHT is what gaves you dick, balls, jaw anything manly. Jfl at how people who don't no basic science. You have androgen dependent tissue and bone (jawline) no DHT everything can/will recesse over years.


Short answer NO. No really. Very Very high chance of life time damage.

This is bs
It’s not like a 5AR inhibitor is some magical drug with mysterious implications on your HPTA. It’s very clear how finasteride impacts the endocrine system.

Can you get sides while your on it? 100%

Are those side perment? 99.9% they’re not

It not like your dick requires 50 fukin things to operate

You stop taking fin, your DHT comes back. Your DHT doesn’t come back, take HCG, provirin, masteron or any of the 50 other steroidal DHT deriviatives.

Dick still not working? Try an aromatose inhibitor for whatever fukin reason

Like are there srsly ppl other there dealing with permenant fin sexual sides?!? Go get ur blood work done dummy

 

[Lars2210]

wtf i trusted this faggot
he literally preaches it in his videos

Don’t read too much into forum bs

Get ur blood work done & check all relevant parameters (DHT, total & free T, SHBG, E2, prolactin)

Take the drug, if u feel any of the sides stay on it for a month then get r blood work done again if there’s something wrong it will show up

Anecdotal evidence is bs with this drug. I’ve been researching this thing for the past 2 years & ended up no where from testimonials. Learn how ur endocrine system operates & the hormonal conditions that keeps u physiologically functional & try to come close to them if u wanna stay on it

 

[lasthope]

Don’t read too much into forum bs

Get ur blood work done & check all relevant parameters (DHT, total & free T, SHBG, E2, prolactin)

Take the drug, if u feel any of the sides stay on it for a month then get r blood work done again if there’s something wrong it will show up

Anecdotal evidence is bs with this drug. I’ve been researching this thing for the past 2 years & ended up no where from testimonials. Learn how ur endocrine system operates & the hormonal conditions that keeps u physiologically functional & try to come close to them if u wanna stay on it

are you on fin?

is bloodwork really necessary before you start fin?

 

[Lars2210]

One last thing. I already mentioned this before but whatevs

If ur getting sides with finasteride, whether they are estrogenic or DHT-related, take a mild DHT derivative (provirin)

Muh “but DHT kills hair ur stupid wats the point”

The point is finasteride is NOT dose dependent. Taking 0.2 mg is p much the same as taking 1 mg as far as 5AR inhibition. The geniuses on hairlosstalk spent a decade cutting their pills & taking the drug every other day when they could have just optimized their DHT levels exogenously. Almost all of the DHT deriviatives are dose dependendent. Provirin is DHT in a pill that has ZERO suppressive effects for your HPTA. There is no empirical data on how a standard provirin dose (25 mg) affects serum DHT, but that’s where ur job starts.

Take the pill at say 12.5 mg, no shedding? Great. You solved your fin sides most probably. You get shedding. Reduce the dose.

Your body doesn’t need 100% DHT to operate. You still have 30% even if u only take finasteride by itself. For some this 30% is not enough because their E2 & SHBG are spiked up.

Solution. Boost ur DHT to 50% OR reduce ur SHBG, or inhibit aromatization. ALL of these routes will throw u back in an ANDROGEN DOMINANT STATE. THAT IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS. ANDROGENIC DOMINANCE

 

[Lars2210]

are you on fin?

is bloodwork really necessary before you start fin?

I personally think it 10000000% necessary

You can wing it but if u want to take the drug & avoid the side you have to play with ur hormones. Same way u do with any steroidals

 

[Deleted member 773]

hows your day to day life?
kevin mann told me these are just nocebo effects

First off I have severe anhedonia. I never get sad or happy anymore.

Fatigue was really bad for a while, I would sleep 8 hours then start falling asleep again at 11am. There were even some times where I was walking home from school in broad daylight, and start to get shuteyed while standing up. Getting rid of my anger problems helped with that a lot.

Dick doesn’t really work, no urge to fap ever.

Collagen is shit as you know.

Muscle growth is nonexistent, can’t even get a pump.

Notice I’m not even going over the cognitive effects, those are the ones people point fingers to the most when trying to frame PFS as a somatic disorder. But they’re the worst.

I have made improvements with St John’s Wort but nothing spectacular yet.

 

[Deleted member 5912]

First off I have severe anhedonia. I never get sad or happy anymore.

Fatigue was really bad for a while, I would sleep 8 hours then start falling asleep again at 11am. There were even some times where I was walking home from school in broad daylight, and start to get shuteyed while standing up. Getting rid of my anger problems helped with that a lot.

Dick doesn’t really work, no urge to fap ever.

Collagen is shit as you know.

Muscle growth is nonexistent, can’t even get a pump.

Notice I’m not even going over the cognitive effects, those are the ones people point fingers to the most when trying to frame PFS as a somatic disorder. But they’re the worst.

I have made improvements with St John’s Wort but nothing spectacular yet.

holy shit thats brutal
but how come some people claim not to get sides

 

[Deleted member 773]

holy shit thats brutal
but how come some people claim not to get sides

I think whether or not you get the sides is dependent on your androgen receptor genetics. The number of CAG repeats (genes) determines how expressed your androgen receptors are. I’m willing to bet mine weren’t that good, and now taking an anti androgen for 6 months has put me in the gutter for good.

 

[Deleted member 5912]

I think whether or not you get the sides is dependent on your androgen receptor genetics. The number of CAG repeats (genes) determines how expressed your androgen receptors are. I’m willing to bet mine weren’t that good, and now taking an anti androgen for 6 months has put me in the gutter for good.

damn bro
my condolences tbh
will this effect your children?
like your sperm quality?

 

[Deleted member 773]

This is bs
It’s not like a 5AR inhibitor is some magical drug with mysterious implications on your HPTA. It’s very clear how finasteride impacts the endocrine system.

Can you get sides while your on it? 100%

Are those side perment? 99.9% they’re not

It not like your dick requires 50 fukin things to operate

You stop taking fin, your DHT comes back. Your DHT doesn’t come back, take HCG, provirin, masteron or any of the 50 other steroidal DHT deriviatives.

Dick still not working? Try an aromatose inhibitor for whatever fukin reason

Like are there srsly ppl other there dealing with permenant fin sexual sides?!? Go get ur blood work done dummy

I have PFS, my testosterone in December was 895ng/dl, Dht 45ng/dl

The main problem with PFS is that it is a malfunction in the androgen receptors. Studies have shown that PFS patients have 2.5x the number of androgen receptors. Other, unrelated studies have found a bell-like function when it comes to androgen receptors, with too little having little growth, too much leading to a cessation of growth.

Most PFS people recover with anti androgens, mostly herbs that contain beta sitoristal. But sometimes it’s an anti-androgenic lifestyle, like long-term keto dieting or fasting. Then, once the receptors are downregulated and AR protein synthesis starts happening again (I can tell based on how much collagen is in my skin and hair, the texture gets softer) then you go in with pro-androgenic substances like Creatine, caffeine, maybe even steroids.

None of this is scientifically confirmed, but I’ve seen about 150 PFS recoveries on the Propeciahelp forum, and they all follow that outline. It’s easier said than done though. Sometimes I take St John’s Wort (my anti-androgenic herb of choice) and it doesn’t “open” my receptors and I feel no different. Nothing’s consistent enough for me to recover yet.

 

[Deleted member 773]

damn bro
my condolences tbh
will this effect your children?
like your sperm quality?

I don’t even think I would be able to have children, #1 because I have no sexual attraction, both my desire towards women and their desire towards me. #2 because of ED.

There was that one celebrity who said something along the line of “I inject Finasteride straight into my bloodstream” and both of his kids are shorter than him, and look androgynous.

 

[Deleted member 5912]

I don’t even think I would be able to have children, #1 because I have no sexual attraction, both my desire towards women and their desire towards me. #2 because of ED.

There was that one celebrity who said something along the line of “I inject Finasteride straight into my bloodstream” and both of his kids are shorter than him, and look androgynous.

fuck tbh
ill only be able to take after getting children and by that timr it wouldnt matter smh

 

[Lars2210]

I have PFS, my testosterone in December was 895ng/dl, Dht 45ng/dl

The main problem with PFS is that it is a malfunction in the androgen receptors. Studies have shown that PFS patients have 2.5x the number of androgen receptors. Other, unrelated studies have found a bell-like function when it comes to androgen receptors, with too little having little growth, too much leading to a cessation of growth.

Most PFS people recover with anti androgens, mostly herbs that contain beta sitoristal. But sometimes it’s an anti-androgenic lifestyle, like long-term keto dieting or fasting. Then, once the receptors are downregulated and AR protein synthesis starts happening again (I can tell based on how much collagen is in my skin and hair, the texture gets softer) then you go in with pro-androgenic substances like Creatine, caffeine, maybe even steroids.

None of this is scientifically confirmed, but I’ve seen about 150 PFS recoveries on the Propeciahelp forum, and they all follow that outline. It’s easier said than done though. Sometimes I take St John’s Wort (my anti-androgenic herb of choice) and it doesn’t “open” my receptors and I feel no different. Nothing’s consistent enough for me to recover yet.

No offense bro not tryna discredit ur case but how in the world is the androgen receptor damages thru fin

The whole premise of a receptor is that it has a hormone binding to it. A 5AR inhibitor binds yo the enzyme that creates DHT which later binds to the receptor. The only possible way I see this if I folllow ur logic is that the lack of activity in the receptor deems it obsolete over time, which is very very unlikely. Otherwise you’d have as many cases of heart failure & muscle degeneration from Finasteride as sexual sides.

Keep in mind ur entire body has “receptors”. & u already know fin is non-selective. So if what you are saying is correct then you should be dead by now cause there is no reason what so ever that it selectively damages the receptors in the brain & penile tissues & not the heart.

My advice is A) speak with an endo
B) run a comprehensive hormone profile. Knowing your total T doesn’t mean shit & knowing your DHT is not enough. You need a conprehensive outlook on your FSH, LH, E2, SHBG, Free T. Then u compare it to your profile before the fin & you can have a general outlook on your overall androgenicity.

I really don’t understand how anti androgens can help “PFS Sufferers” with their rehabilitation. Again not trying to discredit u but it’s too coincidental that most finasteride sides are estrogenic side effects. Ask any bodybuilder his experience post-cycle with no proper PCT & he’ll give u a rundown of generic PFS symptoms. Not to mention herbals don’t do jack shit when it comes to hormone-altering drugs. Maybe in the longterm but I’m skeptical

Anyways, the fact that the primary mechanism of fin is DHT conversion inhibitstion elicits a hormonal imbalance that in most ppl needs to be managed. The only reason that many ppl may not get sides is because they are still in that androgen dominant space.

 

[Diremeyer]

it damages more than 10,000 genes related to the secretion and utilization of male androgens

We have tops 25.000 genes, which is everything you need to build a human, and finasteride damanges almost half?

I can guarantee there doesn't exist 10.000 genes related to the secretion of utilization of male androgens.

 

[Deleted member 6963]

I don’t even think I would be able to have children, #1 because I have no sexual attraction, both my desire towards women and their desire towards me. #2 because of ED.

There was that one celebrity who said something along the line of “I inject Finasteride straight into my bloodstream” and both of his kids are shorter than him, and look androgynous.

How do you think are your receptors "damaged"?

 

[Deleted member 773]

No offense bro not tryna discredit ur case but how in the world is the androgen receptor damages thru fin

The whole premise of a receptor is that it has a hormone binding to it. A 5AR inhibitor binds yo the enzyme that creates DHT which later binds to the receptor. The only possible way I see this if I folllow ur logic is that the lack of activity in the receptor deems it obsolete over time, which is very very unlikely. Otherwise you’d have as many cases of heart failure & muscle degeneration from Finasteride as sexual sides.

Keep in mind ur entire body has “receptors”. & u already know fin is non-selective. So if what you are saying is correct then you should be dead by now cause there is no reason what so ever that it selectively damages the receptors in the brain & penile tissues & not the heart.

My advice is A) speak with an endo
B) run a comprehensive hormone profile. Knowing your total T doesn’t mean shit & knowing your DHT is not enough. You need a conprehensive outlook on your FSH, LH, E2, SHBG, Free T. Then u compare it to your profile before the fin & you can have a general outlook on your overall androgenicity.

I really don’t understand how anti androgens can help “PFS Sufferers” with their rehabilitation. Again not trying to discredit u but it’s too coincidental that most finasteride sides are estrogenic side effects. Ask any bodybuilder his experience post-cycle with no proper PCT & he’ll give u a rundown of generic PFS symptoms. Not to mention herbals don’t do jack shit when it comes to hormone-altering drugs. Maybe in the longterm but I’m skeptical

Anyways, the fact that the primary mechanism of fin is DHT conversion inhibitstion elicits a hormonal imbalance that in most ppl needs to be managed. The only reason that many ppl may not get sides is because they are still in that androgen dominant space.

There are no studies done on Finasteride and androgen receptors. I don’t know why. One study showed androgen receptors are less active on Fin but nothing on the transcriptional level was studied.

Minoxidil, an anti androgen that alone can cause PFS, has been shown to bind directly to the androgen receptor.

Minoxidil may suppress androgen receptor-related functions

Although minoxidil has been used for more than two decades to treat androgenetic alopecia (AGA), an androgen-androgen receptor (AR) pathway-dominant disease, its precise mechanism of action remains elusive. We hypothesized that minoxidil may influence ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Some anti-depressants which cause PSSD have been shown to inhibit androgen receptors as well. PSSD is essentially the same thing as PFS and Propeciahelp has tons of PSSD sufferers. PSSD is officially recognized in Europe.

The steroid mentality cannot be applied to PFS. What makes PFS so perplexing is that we DIDNT cause vast changes to our hormonal system as steroid abusers did. Sure, our sides are similar to “high E” sides, except we don’t have high E. That’s what makes it so perplexing, and all of the signs point to it being a dysfunction in the androgen receptor.

Why should I “be dead” because my androgen receptors arent functioning? Not every receptor is damaged. Just the androgen receptor as far as we know, because we took an anti androgenic drug. My dick is dead. That’s the only organ that predominately relies on the androgen receptor above everything else.

I visited an Endo in December, I don’t have all of my exact values but I know my SHBG, FSH, and LH were in range. My E2 was around 35pg/ml, my free T was above typical range at 41ng/dl. Believe me, that was my first shock with PFS as well, realizing it wasn’t a hormonal problem. The first thing I tried was topical DHT, then proviron, then Mk-677, and none of them got anywhere close to getting me out of this state.

 

[Deleted member 773]

How do you think are your receptors "damaged"?

Because all androgenic activity has ceased in me. I don’t have any muscle growth. My skin is bone dry. I don’t have any collagen and in general look and behave about 10 years older than 17. On top of that, the king of PFS sides, the ultimate punch to the gut, erectile dysfunction.

 

[Deleted member 6963]

Because all androgenic activity has ceased in me. I don’t have any muscle growth. My skin is bone dry. I don’t have any collagen and in general look and behave about 10 years older than 17. On top of that, the king of PFS sides, the ultimate punch to the gut, erectile dysfunction.

On what level would those receptors be damaged? Gene expression?
I think the first step would be to determine the underlying cause. Get extensive bloodwork done to see if the reason for your problem lies there. You could watch MPMD video on that.

Common symptoms of high estrogen include:

• Acne, oily skin
• Erectile dysfunction
• Low libido
• Lethargy
• Gynecomastia (man boobs)
• Aggression and bitchiness
• Depression
• Water retention
• High blood pressure
• Enlarged prostate
• Shrunken testicles
• Sugar cravings

Common symptoms of low estrogen include:

• Dull weak orgasms
• Dry skin and lips
• Dehydration
• Low libido
• Irritability
• Mood swings
• Loss of appetite
• Fatigue
• Lethargy

Be aware that the ratio of "male/female" hormones is more important than just T or E numbers on its own.

If the problem isn't caused by the hormones the problem might be:

A) caused by the receptors

B) psychosomatic

 

[Lars2210]

There are no studies done on Finasteride and androgen receptors. I don’t know why. One study showed androgen receptors are less active on Fin but nothing on the transcriptional level was studied.

Minoxidil, an anti androgen that alone can cause PFS, has been shown to bind directly to the androgen receptor.

Minoxidil may suppress androgen receptor-related functions

Although minoxidil has been used for more than two decades to treat androgenetic alopecia (AGA), an androgen-androgen receptor (AR) pathway-dominant disease, its precise mechanism of action remains elusive. We hypothesized that minoxidil may influence ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Some anti-depressants which cause PSSD have been shown to inhibit androgen receptors as well. PSSD is essentially the same thing as PFS and Propeciahelp has tons of PSSD sufferers. PSSD is officially recognized in Europe.

The steroid mentality cannot be applied to PFS. What makes PFS so perplexing is that we DIDNT cause vast changes to our hormonal system as steroid abusers did. Sure, our sides are similar to “high E” sides, except we don’t have high E. That’s what makes it so perplexing, and all of the signs point to it being a dysfunction in the androgen receptor.

Why should I “be dead” because my androgen receptors arent functioning? Not every receptor is damaged. Just the androgen receptor as far as we know, because we took an anti androgenic drug. My dick is dead. That’s the only organ that predominately relies on the androgen receptor above everything else.

I visited an Endo in December, I don’t have all of my exact values but I know my SHBG, FSH, and LH were in range. My E2 was around 35pg/ml, my free T was above typical range at 41ng/dl. Believe me, that was my first shock with PFS as well, realizing it wasn’t a hormonal problem. The first thing I tried was topical DHT, then proviron, then Mk-677, and none of them got anywhere close to getting me out of this state.

Your situation is odd tbh

As far as the content of the post. There is some misinformation. ANDROGEN RECEPTORS ARE EVERYWHERE INCLUDING THE HEART. It’s not any receptors, but androgen receptors in specific. That’s why it’s very unlikely that a drug like fin would do anything to androgen receptors

RU, which is an anti androgen, is stigmatized for this exact reason. That it can cause heart failure cause it’s mechanism of action involves direct binding to the androgen receptor. Finasteride doesn’t do that. It can’t bind to androgen receptors. It just stops DHT from binding

Minox isn’t an anti-androgen. Not in the slightest. It activates the potassium channel thus inducing hair growth. Doesn’t do much as far as stopping the shedding, it’s more of a regrowth drug. Am sure u know all tho

You shouldn’t expect a HGH secretegoige like mk677 to do anything. I have no idea how provirin had no effect on you. Have u tried cialis or U-Prima?? ICarrin?? Caber??

 

[jackieboy21]

No offense bro not tryna discredit ur case but how in the world is the androgen receptor damages thru fin

The whole premise of a receptor is that it has a hormone binding to it. A 5AR inhibitor binds yo the enzyme that creates DHT which later binds to the receptor. The only possible way I see this if I folllow ur logic is that the lack of activity in the receptor deems it obsolete over time, which is very very unlikely. Otherwise you’d have as many cases of heart failure & muscle degeneration from Finasteride as sexual sides.

Keep in mind ur entire body has “receptors”. & u already know fin is non-selective. So if what you are saying is correct then you should be dead by now cause there is no reason what so ever that it selectively damages the receptors in the brain & penile tissues & not the heart.

My advice is A) speak with an endo
B) run a comprehensive hormone profile. Knowing your total T doesn’t mean shit & knowing your DHT is not enough. You need a conprehensive outlook on your FSH, LH, E2, SHBG, Free T. Then u compare it to your profile before the fin & you can have a general outlook on your overall androgenicity.

I really don’t understand how anti androgens can help “PFS Sufferers” with their rehabilitation. Again not trying to discredit u but it’s too coincidental that most finasteride sides are estrogenic side effects. Ask any bodybuilder his experience post-cycle with no proper PCT & he’ll give u a rundown of generic PFS symptoms. Not to mention herbals don’t do jack shit when it comes to hormone-altering drugs. Maybe in the longterm but I’m skeptical

Anyways, the fact that the primary mechanism of fin is DHT conversion inhibitstion elicits a hormonal imbalance that in most ppl needs to be managed. The only reason that many ppl may not get sides is because they are still in that androgen dominant space.

So what are you saying? If you hop on fin and get sides, lower the dose or try and take DHT derivative meds? I dont fully understand? I took a 1mg of finasteride and got sides, but ive had a few months rest and was thinking of coming back and taking 0.25mg daily, is this a bad idea?

 

[Lars2210]

So what are you saying? If you hop on fin and get sides, lower the dose or try and take DHT derivative meds? I dont fully understand? I took a 1mg of finasteride and got sides, but ive had a few months rest and was thinking of coming back and taking 0.25mg daily, is this a bad idea?

Finasteride is not very dose dependent. I think 0.25 mg will have almost the same effect as 1 mg. You can try tho it might work. Some ppl do the every other day dosage instead of daily as well.

What I was proposing was, since it’s much harder to optimize DHT level by microdosing finasteride, micro dose something that is more dose dependent such as provirin.

Provirin is synthetic DHT. If u are prone to MPB & take provirin u will probably start shedding. But there are some things to take into consideration

1. Your DHT is already low because you are on fin. So provirin May not have the same detrimental effect on hair.

2. Microdosing provirin can increase your serum DHT level to a degree that will satisfy physiological functional (libido, erections, etc) but won’t induce too much shedding if not at all. Why? Because it’s a low dose. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, it’s synthetic DHT with a much greater binding affinity to SHBG. This means that rather than binding to the receptors in the hair follocoles it will bind to the SHBG thus freeing to more testosterone

3. So what does provirin do? It will lower your estrogen, it will increase your free test, it will increase your DHT & it won’t supress your endocrine system. It’s bad because low estrogen & high free T & DHT will take your hair. But if your on finasteride & if u take a low enough dose it shouldn’t have that effect but it can POTENTIALLY clear out your sides.



Side note: if ur gonna go the hormone optimization route, please consult an endo & thoroughly explain to him your case. Also start with a natural aromatose inhibitor. The only one potent enough is Alchemy From Pharmalabs or something. It can be very potent so be careful. You can add boron to your supplementation because it’s been proven to lower SHBG. If u lower SHBG & E2, you might succed in counteracting the estrogenic side effects of finasteride

 

[jackieboy21]

Finasteride is not very dose dependent. I think 0.25 mg will have almost the same effect as 1 mg. You can try tho it might work. Some ppl do the every other day dosage instead of daily as well.

What I was proposing was, since it’s much harder to optimize DHT level by microdosing finasteride, micro dose something that is more dose dependent such as provirin.

Provirin is synthetic DHT. If u are prone to MPB & take provirin u will probably start shedding. But there are some things to take into consideration

1. Your DHT is already low because you are on fin. So provirin May not have the same detrimental effect on hair.

2. Microdosing provirin can increase your serum DHT level to a degree that will satisfy physiological functional (libido, erections, etc) but won’t induce too much shedding if not at all. Why? Because it’s a low dose. AND MORE IMPORTANTLY, it’s synthetic DHT with a much greater binding affinity to SHBG. This means that rather than binding to the receptors in the hair follocoles it will bind to the SHBG thus freeing to more testosterone

3. So what does provirin do? It will lower your estrogen, it will increase your free test, it will increase your DHT & it won’t supress your endocrine system. It’s bad because low estrogen & high free T & DHT will take your hair. But if your on finasteride & if u take a low enough dose it shouldn’t have that effect but it can POTENTIALLY clear out your sides.



Side note: if ur gonna go the hormone optimization route, please consult an endo & thoroughly explain to him your case. Also start with a natural aromatose inhibitor. The only one potent enough is Alchemy From Pharmalabs or something. It can be very potent so be careful. You can add boron to your supplementation because it’s been proven to lower SHBG. If u lower SHBG & E2, you might succed in counteracting the estrogenic side effects of finasteride

Ahhh cheers for clearing that up, although my sides were almost estrogenic, i dont know if youve heard of the reflex hyperandrogenetic theory or known as upregulation. Basically when i took 1mg of fin after like 6months i was sweating loads and started to loose alot of ground with hair due to upregulation of the receptors (this is all a theory mainly spoken about on the hairlosstalk forums). But anyways i was wondering if you had heard of this before and whether maybe 0.25mg of fin daily could mitigate the effects. When i was on 1mg i was fine for ED and everything, maybe slightly more weak erections but only when masturbating or whatever, if i was actually horny or having sex they would be fine.

 

[Deleted member 773]

Your situation is odd tbh

As far as the content of the post. There is some misinformation. ANDROGEN RECEPTORS ARE EVERYWHERE INCLUDING THE HEART. It’s not any receptors, but androgen receptors in specific. That’s why it’s very unlikely that a drug like fin would do anything to androgen receptors

RU, which is an anti androgen, is stigmatized for this exact reason. That it can cause heart failure cause it’s mechanism of action involves direct binding to the androgen receptor. Finasteride doesn’t do that. It can’t bind to androgen receptors. It just stops DHT from binding

Minox isn’t an anti-androgen. Not in the slightest. It activates the potassium channel thus inducing hair growth. Doesn’t do much as far as stopping the shedding, it’s more of a regrowth drug. Am sure u know all tho

You shouldn’t expect a HGH secretegoige like mk677 to do anything. I have no idea how provirin had no effect on you. Have u tried cialis or U-Prima?? ICarrin?? Caber??

This study suggests Fin might attach to the androgen receptor

The antiandrogenic effect of finasteride against a mutant androgen receptor

Finasteride is known to inhibit Type 2 5α-reductase and thus block the conversion of testosterone to dihydrotestosterone (DHT). The structural similarity of finasteride to DHT raises the possibility that finasteride may also interfere with the ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Minoxidil is an anti androgen

Minoxidil may suppress androgen receptor-related functions

Although minoxidil has been used for more than two decades to treat androgenetic alopecia (AGA), an androgen-androgen receptor (AR) pathway-dominant disease, its precise mechanism of action remains elusive. We hypothesized that minoxidil may influence ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Minoxidil Acts as an Antiandrogen: A Study of 5α-reductase Type 2 Gene Expression in a Human Keratinocyte Cell Line - PubMed

Although more than three decades have passed since the first use of minoxidil in androgenetic alopecia (AGA), its mechanisms of action have still not been comprehensively understood. 5α-reductase (5α-R) has an active role as the predominant enzyme in both AGA and female pattern hair loss (FPHL)...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

IGF-1 can stimulate androgen receptors, hence why I tried MK-677.

Modification of androgen receptor function by IGF-1 signaling implications in the mechanism of refractory prostate carcinoma - PubMed

The androgen-androgen receptor (AR) system plays important roles in a variety of biological processes, including prostate cancer (PC) development and progression. Insulin and Insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) signaling negatively regulate a member of the forkhead box-containing protein O...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I’ve never tried Cialis, but last I heard that was just an erection achiever like viagra? I’ve tried L-carnitine, l-arginine, Creatine, caffeine, dht gel, proviron, getting back on the drug (actually cured me 50% for like 3 days then stopped working), St John’s Wort (helps me semi-consistently)

Sorry for lots of links and not a lot of dialogue. I’m not trying to be felicitous or anything, I wrote out a whole post and it got deleted for some reason.

 

[sytyl]

This is bs
It’s not like a 5AR inhibitor is some magical drug with mysterious implications on your HPTA. It’s very clear how finasteride impacts the endocrine system.

Can you get sides while your on it? 100%

Are those side perment? 99.9% they’re not

It not like your dick requires 50 fukin things to operate

You stop taking fin, your DHT comes back. Your DHT doesn’t come back, take HCG, provirin, masteron or any of the 50 other steroidal DHT deriviatives.

Dick still not working? Try an aromatose inhibitor for whatever fukin reason

Like are there srsly ppl other there dealing with permenant fin sexual sides?!? Go get ur blood work done dummy

sane advice

people like to blame things and said people will be a loud minority

 

[Deleted member 7173]

Fuck finasteride and fuck accutane

 

[LooksJourney]

I already fucking have gene damage that’s why I’m on this forum, who cares JFL

 

[Dogs]

Imagine not taking fin at 16 years old

 

[Deleted member 2587]

Reminder @Lifeisgood72 never took fin.