Possible cure for hair loss - why hormones do not matter

[Deleted member 5292]

Did you have MBP?

I did several studies with non conclusive results. I have sd for sure. But what i can assure you is that 10 years ago i was losing 400 hairs per day, balding fast as fuck. Now i have a thick nw0 hairline.

 

[Deleted member 5292]

the further downstream, the better. it's a rule of thumb. thaht's why an AR antagonist is better than a 5ARI, which is better than a 17B-HSD inhibitor

I remember you from the spanish hairloss forum. I am thebeast.

 

[Deleted member 5292]

"Iodine after dermapen" - Topical? You happen to know why?

Maybe share the thread that you referred to?

Yes, topical. It balances hormones and it is also an antiseptical.

 

[Mayorga]

I remember you from the spanish hairloss forum. I am thebeast.

i don't have an account on any other looksmaxxing-related boards, it wasn't me.

Do you really believe that reduced DNA MTase activity is the cause for local hypomethylation in hair follicles?

I don't "believe" anything, just pointing out details that should be further looked into in order to "complete" the puzzle.

Also, Idk which genes you‘re referring to

The DNA methyltransferase genes.

the condition still DEVELOPS at some point in one‘s life, often well after puberty is over

Gene expression changes over time. Could be the case here as well (DNA Mtase)

Imo, a progressive aging-related decline in overall DNA methylation is more likely to be the issue here

Could very well be, based on my limited knowledge on the topic. Mechanistically it makes sense, even though only 1 study is cited. Do we have more?

There‘s lots of anecdotal evidence of people who reported hair regrowth from bioactive folate alone even.

Mind sharing some if you have them at hand?

the finasteride copers are evidently against your information though, they'll do anything to convince themselves that partial castration is the definitive solution to hair loss.

everybody's gangsta till they NW3 at 25. The MOA of finasteride is very sub-par and lacks elegance, but it works and observational studies shows that most don't get drastic sides (inhibition of 5AR in the CNS worries me more than lower DHT levels tbh). I'm all for innovation and different approaches when it comes to MPB, just not at the expense of losing my hair by avoiding fin.

 

[DrunkenSailor]

good thread nonetheless, the finasteride copers are evidently against your information though, they'll do anything to convince themselves that partial castration is the definitive solution to hair loss.

You talk as if Finasteride is some addiction inducing drug and its users can’t stop taking it. I think me and most of the Fin patients would gladly switch to a sides effect free treatment based on vitamins and stuff like that if it’s proven to be working.

if some people find that it works then it must be because they aren’t really balding in the first place. But when you’re nw3 at 21 you don’t want to test and trial shit theories, trust me.

 

[Deleted member 2756]

everybody's gangsta till they NW3 at 25. The MOA of finasteride is very sub-par and lacks elegance, but it works and observational studies shows that most don't get drastic sides (inhibition of 5AR in the CNS worries me more than lower DHT levels tbh). I'm all for innovation and different approaches when it comes to MPB, just not at the expense of losing my hair by avoiding fin.

Well said, I'm coming from a perspective of naivety and ignorance to tell you the truth, both my grandparents and my father have full sets' of hair, I'm most likely never going to bald. Finasteride may work, but that doesn't mean it's definitively safe. Most people are under the impression 5ar only exists to metabolize testosterone into it's more potent counterpart, nothing could be further from the truth, I full-heartedly believe that it isn't the inhibition of DHT that causes the impotence and erectile dysfunction, rather the chronic downregulation of the neurosteroidal complex that majorly impacts the GABAergic system. Allopregnanolone and 3a-androstanediol to name a few, both of which are mediated directly & indirectly through 5ar.

 

[MewingJBP]

this is your future if you follow this retarded op's advice

 

[Deleted member 4946]

nice so my heightmaxxing stack should prevent mpb?

fk

 

[Bewusst]

I don't "believe" anything, just pointing out details that should be further looked into in order to "complete" the puzzle.

Gene expression changes over time. Could be the case here as well (DNA Mtase)

Could very well be, based on my limited knowledge on the topic. Mechanistically it makes sense, even though only 1 study is cited. Do we have more?

I agree with everything you said. That’s all possible. I’m going to look for more studies and share them with you if I find sth.

Edit: I just found this study:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9284093/

It makes sense to me to try to increase methylation in order to “silence” the AR gene and to make up for the increased production of 5AR and higher number of androgen receptors.

Mind sharing some if you have them at hand?

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/folinic-acid-stops-my-hair-loss.27605/
Ray Peat advocates are always to be taken with a grain of salt but there’s several members there who had success

 

[ProAcktiv]

Hair gains, bodybuilding forum was my source of info. I but the products on amazon

what dermapen you use? derminator or dr.pen. Can you link the product?

 

[Deleted member 5292]

what dermapen you use? derminator or dr.pen. Can you link the product?

Mym, the cheapest crap on the market. Dont waste mobey on expensive derminators or dr pen

 

[Deleted member 6824]

I mentioned it already but I decided to make a thread about this. I hope you guys appreciate what I‘m about to share with you. I‘m tired of garbage threads.

Hair loss, androgenetic alopecia or male pattern baldness, is not caused by DHT. DHT triggers it but only under a certain circumstance. This circumstance being the loss of androgen receptor gene methylation in hair follicles (study).

What is AR gene methylation?
-> DNA methylation is a biological process of adding a methyl group to DNA.
In this case, adding a methyl group to the CpG island in the promoter region of the androgen receptor gene in hair follicles will reduce its expression. Think of it as an on/off switch and methylation turns gene expression off.

A common characteristic of MPB (male pattern baldness) is that it affects the top of the head (vertex) much more than the back of the head (occiput). This is because vertex hair follicles have much lower levels of methylation than occipital hair follicles and thus are a lot more sensitive to DHT. Occipital hair follicles have twice the amount of methylation, on average. Hence, the occiput is not affected as much from MPB.

If hormones really were to blame (they are not), you‘d see androgenetic alopecia begin in puberty and improve with the decline of men‘s T levels as they age and gain weight. But this isn‘t the case. It usually begins in one‘s mid- to late twenties or later in life and does not resolve on its own.
The real cause of AGA is a gradual decline in DNA methylation, which is also heavily involved in aging and the onset of diseases and cancer in general. So, instead of removing the signal (DHT) from the overactive androgen receptors, we should normalize their expression. If it works in puberty - lots of androgens but healthy levels of methylation = no hair loss - it‘ll work at any age. DHT does not matter. You need it for well-being. No more jewtasteride.

The solution?
-> Increase overall methylation in your body. The methylation cycle requires vitamin B2 (riboflavin), B6 (pyridoxine), B9 (folate) and B12 (cobalamin), methionine and choline. Deficiencies in dietary methyl donors can result in global hypomethylation and accelerate hair loss or the onset thereof.
Make sure to get plenty of all of the above every single day. If you already suffer from hair loss, take supplements. For B6, get pyridoxal-5-phosphate, for B9 L-5-methyltetrahydrofolate and for B12 methylcobalamin.
Make sure to eat enough protein as a source for methionine and to consume enough choline and minerals. Good mineral and trace element sources are unprocessed sugar cane syrup, fruits such as bananas and dates, leafy greens and whole grains.
You can add trimethylglycine (betaine) and S-Adenosylmethionine (SAMe) for a 100% guaranteed increase in methylation. Just make sure not to overdo the SAM, since hypermethylation isn’t your goal either.

Other things apart from methylation support you should be taking are vitamin C (read my guide) and D with its cofactors (A, K2, magnesium).


Tl;dr: If you want to keep your hair, increase methylation.
How? Take:

• riboflavin
• vitamin B6 as P-5-P
• vitamin B9 as L-5-MTHF
• vitamin B12 as methylcobalamin
• vitamin C
• vitamin A, D, K2 + magnesium
(• SAMe)
(• TMG (betaine))
• diet rich in (trace) minerals and with plenty of protein and choline.

you take the entire stack at once?
or is there a right time to take the a d k combo and a right time to take the b vitamins etc?

 

[Bewusst]

you take the entire stack at once?
or is there a right time to take the a d k combo and a right time to take the b vitamins etc?

There isn’t an ideal way to do it but I suggest that you take the B vitamins together, once daily with plenty of water.

For vitamin C, you need to read my guide, I already made a thread about that.

A, D, K2 together with fat. When you take cod liver oil, you don’t need any additional fat. If you take cod liver oil, get vitamin K2 separately and take them together. Another option is getting vitamin D+K2 drops (2 in 1) and buying vitamin A as retinyl palmitate extra.

SAMe and TMG together twice daily, first dose on empty stomach, second one also away from food (at least 2h before/after eating).

Magnesium once daily, whenever you want.

 

[Bewusst]

I thought oral B vitamins were a meme, especially B12 because your body just destroys it. Don't you need to inject it?

You can inject it or you can take methylcobalamin orally. You only need to inject if you lack intrinsic factor. You can easily find out whether you have B12 deficiency in a full blood count

 

[ProAcktiv]

Mym, the cheapest crap on the market. Dont waste mobey on expensive derminators or dr pen

yeah i guess i'll go for the cheaper option, it's just that I heard people were saying the cheaper ones don't penetrate nearly as well as the derminator which seems to be the public favorite. What would you attribute your hair growth to the most?

 

[Deleted member 5292]

No

Is it worth getting an electric one? I buy $10 manual Chinese ones, stab the fk out of my head til its bleeding, then throw it out after about 5 uses. I've got 3 sitting in my drawer right now.
Wondering if I should switch to electric.

No, its not.

 

[Deleted member 5292]

yeah i guess i'll go for the cheaper option, it's just that I heard people were saying the cheaper ones don't penetrate nearly as well as the derminator which seems to be the public favorite. What would you attribute your hair growth to the most?

Dermapen

 

[Chintuck22]

I have no idea tbh

It does

Check out my DHTmaxing thread

 

[Bewusst]

It does
View attachment 570635

Check out my DHTmaxing thread

That’s all nice and interesting and IGF-1 vs DHT plays indeed a role in hair loss but I don’t think that injecting IGF-1/HGH is safe in the long term

 

[bruh3610]

Yea but for some people with MTHFR polymorphism this will redistribute mercury to their brain

 

[bruh3610]

why is every nigga here obsessed with methylation?

good thread nonetheless, the finasteride copers are evidently against your information though, they'll do anything to convince themselves that partial castration is the definitive solution to hair loss.

@rax1337 got mercury poisoning from strikes. DNA methylation stack

 

[Bewusst]

Yea but for some people with MTHFR polymorphism this will redistribute mercury to their brain

I think this subject is being massively overblown. As long as you didn’t get your amalgam fillings removed recently without a cofferdam, you should be fine. I’m not recommending to induce HYPERmethylation here, like Strike does for heightmaxxing purposes, but just to get methylation back to healthy levels. Anything in excess is unhealthy.

There’s several types of MTHFR polymorphisms, some impair folic acid metabolism more than others. To make this stack equally efficient for everyone, I recommend using folate as L-5-MTHF instead of folic acid. High doses of riboflavin also help saturating the mutated MTHFR enzyme with flavin adenine dinucleotide to make up for its reduced ability to bind to FAD and to make the enzyme work properly in C667T affected people.

Saying that everyone with some kind of MTHFR gene polymorphism will get mercury poisoning is just wrong.

 

[Bewusst]

I haven’t even been taking the full stack yet (only A, B2, P-5-P, 5-MTHF, C, D, K2 and magnesium) and my hair loss has improved dramatically in about four weeks. I used to lose heaps of hair when I combed through it and now it’s barely anything. I need to get the other things too and will report back in a month or so. I believe that taking SAMe won’t even be necessary in my case. It’s just for the hardcore cases.

 

[Deleted member 6400]

reped,high iq
retarded fincopers on suicidewatch

 

[Cope]

@Bewusst Is your diet rich in B12s? Methylationcels also need a choline source, I use CDP-Choline since I’m going to do the Mr. Happy Stack, but Alpha GPC may be better or just TMG. Also you need Glycine from a hydrolyzed collagen source (Vital Proteins or Great Lakes).

 

[OCDMaxxing]

I have hair loss. I haven’t bothered enough yet to follow my own advice 100% since it isn’t that bad but I’ve started taking only B2+6+9 and instead of losing several handfuls of hair when I shower, I now only lose about one. It has definitely improved already.

Broscience bullshit and you have no proof that it even works.

 

[Deleted member 3902]

Wo kann ich das kaufen

 

[Bewusst]

@Bewusst Is your diet rich in B12s? Methylationcels also need a choline source, I use CDP-Choline since I’m going to do the Mr. Happy Stack, but Alpha GPC may be better or just TMG. Also you need Glycine from a hydrolyzed collagen source (Vital Proteins or Great Lakes).

I know exactly what I need and it’s all included in the stack and diet advice in my op. I eat a fuckton of gelatin already, so glycine isn’t an issue for me

 

[Bewusst]

Wo kann ich das kaufen

Beim Kokaindealer deines Vertrauens

 

[Atem Rah]

@rax1337 got mercury poisoning from strikes. DNA methylation stack

You srs ? How's he doing now ?

 

[bruh3610]

You srs ? How's he doing now ?

I found him on Reddit and talked to him
Tbh idk if he was shilling for strike and getting ppl to fuck off or not but I trust hin
He said last week he couldn’t feel his face but now he’s better

 

[Cope]

I know exactly what I need and it’s all included in the stack and diet advice in my op. I eat a fuckton of gelatin already, so glycine isn’t an issue for me

Obviously, I was just offfering a better source for choline and Glycine since you failed to mentioned it.

 

[Deleted member 5292]

I know exactly what I need and it’s all included in the stack and diet advice in my op. I eat a fuckton of gelatin already, so glycine isn’t an issue for me

What is the most important vitamin of your stack in ypur opinion?

 

[Bewusst]

What is the most important vitamin of your stack in ypur opinion?

All of them but the B vitamins are especially important for methylation

 

[Bewusst]

Here the dosages and everything else you need to know: link

 

[karbo]

fuckin great thread bro.


Now i can keep pumping proviron and not feel guilty about it

why are you taking that?

 

[karbo]

Very high iq post. I am a long time member of hlt (more than 10 years of research in forums). I keep all my hair thanks to dermarrolling and iodine. I did the hair gains approach which includes this protocol and my hair improved a lot. This is legit.

what exactly are you taking? i suppose not all of these vitamins
did you notice more healthier hair aswell?

 

[Deleted member 5292]

what exactly are you taking? i suppose not all of these vitamins
did you notice more healthier hair aswell?

Look at my posts in this thread. I noticed much better hair quality.

 

[Deleted member 4410]

Ive actually started blasting large doses of niacinamide b1 and thiamine HCL (proper glucose oxidation), b6 (piroxidine form, they didnt have p5p powder, anti prolactin), riboflavin b2. Also my new electric demapen came. I have a mix of minoxidil/sandalore/retin-a, but what else should I add. Maybe vitamins to the mix?

 

[MewingJBP]

Ive actually started blasting large doses of niacinamide b1 and thiamine HCL (proper glucose oxidation), b6 (piroxidine form, they didnt have p5p powder, anti prolactin), riboflavin b2. Also my new electric demapen came. I have a mix of minoxidil/sandalore/retin-a, but what else should I add. Maybe vitamins to the mix?

add finasteride

 

[The Bleach Pill]

is the vitamin C and vitamin A, D, K2 + magnesium necessary. Wouldn't the b complex+ sam-e and TMG suffice?

 

[Bewusst]

Ive actually started blasting large doses of niacinamide b1 and thiamine HCL (proper glucose oxidation), b6 (piroxidine form, they didnt have p5p powder, anti prolactin), riboflavin b2. Also my new electric demapen came. I have a mix of minoxidil/sandalore/retin-a, but what else should I add. Maybe vitamins to the mix?

I already mentioned it but stop taking nicotinamide

 

[Bewusst]

is the vitamin C and vitamin A, D, K2 + magnesium necessary. Wouldn't the b complex+ sam-e and TMG suffice?

Vitamin C definitely. I added vitamin D to the list because deficiency can lead to hair loss as well. A, K2 and magnesium are cofactors needed to prevent vitamin D toxicity and to aid in its metabolism

 

[THEMOGEE]

I wanna take iodine for multiple reasons

What dose and what form do I get it?

 

[THEMOGEE]

So basically monster makes me keep my hair
100% DV of b12 and b6

 

[Deleted member 6824]

The dosages are still quite low for this purpose. It would be much cheaper to buy them separately. I’d also avoid nicotinamide in supplements, since there are assumptions that high doses of it can deplete methyl donors (especially betaine) and raise homocysteine levels.

What are the "high dosages" of nocotinamide?
What if his b complex has low levels?

 

[balding17yomanletcel]

Sounds high iq, saving. But had not sam e low oral bioavability?

@Dyorotic2 gtfih

 

[Seth Walsh]

Nice thread. Unfortunately it's not an issue of a loss of DNA methylation. In the WNT pathway there's proteases that breakdown and pretty much destroy Beta Catenin before it can reach the TCF/LEF factors which guide it to the target genes. So the proteases are the problem. If there was no proteasomal degredation of B Catenin then that specific action of TCF+B Catenin binding should (and does) carry out normally.

Afaik the lack of activity at the Frizzled and LRP receptors in the Wnt pathway causes the proteases to destroy the B Catenin rather than letting the transciption factors help it target the movo1 and KRT81 genes.

 

[Deleted member 5292]

So basically monster makes me keep my hair
100% DV of b12 and b6
View attachment 575646

Chads recipe to have insane hair.

 

[Deleted member 5292]

Nice thread. Unfortunately it's not an issue of a loss of DNA methylation. In the WNT pathway there's proteases that breakdown and pretty much destroy Beta Catenin before it can reach the TCF/LEF factors which guide it to the target genes. So the proteases are the problem. If there was no proteasomal degredation of B Catenin then that specific action of TCF+B Catenin binding should (and does) carry out normally.

Afaik the lack of activity at the Frizzled and LRP receptors in the Wnt pathway causes the proteases to destroy the B Catenin rather than letting the transciption factors help it target the movo1 and KRT81 genes.

Wnt pathway is not the main factor in aga. Maybe 2nd or 3rd.