Redo bimax or do genio?

[es5123]

I had bimax couple of years ago results were good, i went from subhuman to normie tier. Problem is my upper lip and philtrum. Not the worst but they look huge from the oblique view. Also i still have to jut my jaw forward 24/7 to minimize the issue. Had consultations with two surgeons.

Other one suggested genio, my only concern is that it wont bring the lower lip forward enough and will deepen the mentolabial fold and ends up looking funny.

Other one said that there was not enough decompensation before my surgery and wants so exctract two lower premolars and redo the surgey.

Linked some pictures. In those oblique and side profile pics, other one is relaxed and in other one i jut my jaw forward, bet you cant even tell a difference. What do you think about those plans and do you think the protrusion of my philtrum and upper lip should be fixed?

 

[Reformed]

U got bimax and still need to jutt? What a waste jfl

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

do you have class 1 occlusion now?

if your bite is good you could consider upper lip reduction since it seems a bit out of balance with your lower lip. chin is already good.

especially in the first pic you can see the upper lip has more volume than the lower lip when it should be the other way round or at least equal.

 

[es5123]

do you have class 1 occlusion now?

if your bite is good you could consider upper lip reduction since it seems a bit out of balance with your lower lip. chin is already good.

especially in the first pic you can see the upper lip has more volume than the lower lip when it should be the other way round or at least equal.

My bite is fine after the surgery.

Im not sure about upper lip reduction since it feels like the results are going to be really unpredictable. Also not sure if its a soft tissue probelm. When i jut my mandible forward my lower lip comes in line with the upper and it almost looks fine.

 

[es5123]

bumb

 

[Allornothing]

Other one said that there was not enough decompensation before my surgery and wants so exctract two lower premolars and redo the surgey.

This guy is correct.

Other one suggested genio,

This is a Jew.

Bimax is cope anyway though.

 

[es5123]

This guy is correct.

This is a Jew.

Bimax is cope anyway though.

Yea, not sure if another bimax will be worth the possible 0,10 psl increase.

here´s are pic of what i started with

 

[LoveSuckingFeet]

Bimax is cope anyway though.

why is this?

 

[Allornothing]

why is this?

It fixes the relative positions of your jaws but it will never create the good looks that forward growth creates.

 

[LoveSuckingFeet]

It fixes the relative positions of your jaws but it will never create the good looks that forward growth creates.

interesting. but is the fixing of the position of jaws not creating this forward growth?

I think you make a good point.

like.. this guy? he had jaw surgery but it just looks disgusting. I don't even know how you can create natural forward growth.

it literally looks like his forehead is recessed and now his skull looks to small in comparison? not sure

thoughts?

 

[Allornothing]

interesting. but is the fixing of the position of jaws not creating this forward growth?

I think you make a good point.

like.. this guy? he had jaw surgery but it just looks disgusting. I don't even know how you can create natural forward growth.

it literally looks like his forehead is recessed and now his skull looks to small in comparison? not sure

thoughts?

View attachment 2732786

He looks fucked because of his super thick upper lip and he is downgrown, as well as having a chin that is too tall. This isn't really to do with the jaw surgery.

My point was just that because of the natural limitations of jaw surgery, you can never give someone with a flat maxilla and poor forward growth, a good maxilla. You can only really fix their bite and try to correct downward growth.

 

[LoveSuckingFeet]

He looks fucked because of his super thick upper lip and he is downgrown, as well as having a chin that is too tall. This isn't really to do with the jaw surgery.

My point was just that because of the natural limitations of jaw surgery, you can never give someone with a flat maxilla and poor forward growth, a good maxilla. You can only really fix their bite and try to correct downward growth.

lmao, does this mean its just over if youre not genetically forward grown?

 

[Allornothing]

lmao, does this mean its just over if youre not genetically forward grown?

The gain in forward growth from jaw surgery will never be enough to significantly impact looks. If your bite is fucked then yes it's a good idea.

If you lack forward growth you should just try to compensate with other features.

 

[lowiqNormie]

The gain in forward growth from jaw surgery will never be enough to significantly impact looks. If your bite is fucked then yes it's a good idea.

If you lack forward growth you should just try to compensate with other features.

But what about ascensions you can find on surgeon pages like raffaini there are several cases where he created a pretty good forward growth or am i wrong

 

[Allornothing]

But what about ascensions you can find on surgeon pages like raffaini there are several cases where he created a pretty good forward growth or am i wrong

All those significant changes are from the relative positions of the jaws being fixed. An underbite looks bad because the mandible is too far forward, not because the maxilla is too far back if that makes sense.

Honestly to me it just alludes to the fact that forward growth is mostly cope because most people have it. In that way I was probably wrong to say forward growth creates good looks. It’s more that a flat maxilla creates bad looks and it’s quite rare.

 

[nobodyspecial369]

interesting. but is the fixing of the position of jaws not creating this forward growth?

I think you make a good point.

like.. this guy? he had jaw surgery but it just looks disgusting. I don't even know how you can create natural forward growth.

it literally looks like his forehead is recessed and now his skull looks to small in comparison? not sure

thoughts?

View attachment 2732786

his issue is i think he went for too much forward growth in relation to his neurocranium (hence it looks unnatural). also he has no ramus

“
Since brachycephalic people have short head length, their anterior craniums—where the maxilla is attached to the bottom of—are also shorter in sagittal length. So what's the consequence of this? The consequence is there's less room for forward growth of the maxilla and mandible. Think about it: if one's forehead isn't very far in front of their ears, how much forward maxillary growth can "fit" in the space under their anterior cranium? Not much.”
https://looksmax.org/threads/brachycephalic-cranium-is-the-biggest-death-sentence.302833/

 

[nobodyspecial369]

I had bimax couple of years ago results were good, i went from subhuman to normie tier. Problem is my upper lip and philtrum. Not the worst but they look huge from the oblique view. Also i still have to jut my jaw forward 24/7 to minimize the issue. Had consultations with two surgeons.

Other one suggested genio, my only concern is that it wont bring the lower lip forward enough and will deepen the mentolabial fold and ends up looking funny.

Other one said that there was not enough decompensation before my surgery and wants so exctract two lower premolars and redo the surgey.

Linked some pictures. In those oblique and side profile pics, other one is relaxed and in other one i jut my jaw forward, bet you cant even tell a difference. What do you think about those plans and do you think the protrusion of my philtrum and upper lip should be fixed?

OP i cannot see your pic on my phone so don’t take what i say at face value but i too have too thick and protruding philtrum.

i would go for genio in terms of aesthetic results, bimax is more for health/airway.

check out this thread for more
https://looksmax.org/threads/6-days...-still-looking-recessed.685061/#post-10842784



Btw, re the deep mental labial fold concern, i think a skilled surgeon can do it correctly such that it looks natural and does not significantly deepen it. for ex,
here’s a genio where it didn’t create an unnatural fold. When the chin bone moves forward it should generally pull the skin in btwn the bone and the lip forward as well so as not to deepen mentolabial

see here this guy says lip incompetence can be fixed with genio alone

Is a sliding genio necessary with bimax + ccw?

For fixing class III malocclusion, asymmetry, and lip incompetence. Or does the ccw do enough? Generally speaking, of course

looksmax.org

 

[mvp2v1]

thoughts?

Yeah because his ramus is still underdeveloped, his everything outside the lefort 1 area is recessed. The orbitals all the way down to the mandible are still verticaly elongated. If u fixed the vertical component, fixed the ramus he would be chad