Science-based gymcelling guide GTFIH if you still do 4x12

[Foreverbrad]

It’s extremely individual and you have to try all types of training until you find what works for you tbh. And even then it tends to need to be switched up periodically. Progressive overload is bullshit beyond maximising your CNS noob gains.

 

[19nor]

all these nerdy words like adduction and distal am I right?

It takes few seconds of google search to understand what they mean

 

[-=t3rm1n4t0r_2005=-]

Progressive overload is bullshit beyond maximising your CNS noob gains.

 

[Foreverbrad]

Enjoy your plateau and endless deloads greycel

 

[-=t3rm1n4t0r_2005=-]

Enjoy your plateau and endless deloads greycel

Deload and plateu should be good things in your universe where PO doesn't matter tho??

 

[-=t3rm1n4t0r_2005=-]

Enjoy your plateau and endless deloads greycel

Unc, just for lolz, tell me what was your bench press when you started training, and what is it now? Or whatever exercise you are doing for chest.
Did your bench increase or are you benching 135x12 for 5 years straight?

 

[Foreverbrad]

Deload and plateu should be good things in your universe where PO doesn't matter tho??

It does matter, it just only matters for CNS.

Unc, just for lolz, tell me what was your bench press when you started training, and what is it now? Or whatever exercise you are doing for chest.
Did your bench increase or are you benching 135x12 for 5 years straight?

Started at 15kg, got to 5x60 on progressive overload then stalled a lot, got to 3x95 after doing a lot of work in 20-30 range. My genetics are shit.

The whole thing is: max out your CNS gains, then do hypertrophy routine to build more, then max out CNS again, etc etc.

I’m gonna stab a teenager for calling me unc though. Not the one who called me unc, just a random teenager when I go ER. Fuck you all.

 

[-=t3rm1n4t0r_2005=-]

It does matter, it just only matters for CNS.

No.

The whole thing is: max out your CNS gains, then do hypertrophy routine to build more, then max out CNS again, etc etc.

You can not achieve meaningful hypertrophy if you do not increase the weight. Hypertrophy = more myofibrils, more myofibrils = more units to contract. More units to contract = you have to use more weight or reps in order to get close to failure = necessary PO in order to stay close to failure. Your example proves it. You built more muscle mass and therefore you can lift more weight.

Started at 15kg, got to 5x60 on progressive overload then stalled a lot, got to 3x95 after doing a lot of work in 20-30 range. My genetics are shit.

I don't judge the exact number bro, I'm just interested if you did or did not increase weight.
Good progress concidering genetics bro keep it up.

 

[yesimog420]

holy shit less than I do weekly, if u have less than 1.5 years of training all the shit will work
Be careful not to do this to ur shoulders.

Oh yeah I’ve been training for like 2 years now also why not shoulders

 

[kazama]

not one nigga can rep 3plates on bench in this pathetic thread lmao

yeah broooo just waste millions of hours on research and creating an 'optimal' training program rather than just lifting heavy shit for 15sets a week for a group of muscle tissue if you arent a complete subhuman than you already are you will pack on some size eventually

Enjoy ur stress peaks by doing 15 reps, while I get stronger and bigger by doing a set of 5 reps max.

not one nigga can rep 3plates on bench in this pathetic thread lmao

YOU can't, nigga I've progressed practically 1kg in lateral raise jfl that would be easier

4x12 nonsense started after Jay Retardler said that pump and volume is what grows muscle

yeah

It’s extremely individual

No it's not, u are probably not a biological rare case that goes against the norm for ur species. @copercel123 @jeff1234 Look at idiot gymcels who deal with their huge training sheets, u can just put a lot of weight and do 1 valid set jfl

beyond maximising your CNS noob gains.

Probably didn't read the jfl studies

Progressive overload is bullshit

JFL IS IT RIGHT TO ACONULATE FATIGUE?

Enjoy your plateau and endless deloads greycel

There is no such thing as an animal plateau, the progression of reps or load alone shows that u are evolving.
Progression-results. ACONULAR volume is the worst possible method that should only be used in specific cases you idiot

Started at 15kg, got to 5x60 on progressive overload then stalled a lot, got to 3x95 after doing a lot of work in 20-30 range. My genetics are shit.

ur genetics are horrible and u still accumulate fatigue JFL @copercel123 @jeff1234 @CEO
Be a real man u retard and not a faggot who spends 10 hours training,learn the basics of biology before saying "it's extremely individual" sftu dumbass
Involuntary slowing: hypertrophy.

Oh yeah I’ve been training for like 2 years now also why not shoulders

Shoulders are not very receptive to large sets, do low sets. What is ur warm up?
And yes, 2 years of training doesn't make u an uncle in that

 

[keife]

if you already are on the sbl side of tiktok then this thread is going to be water mostly, havent seen really anything about it here though

INTRODUCTION
I think most of us can agree that muscles are a decent halo given you don't have subhuman skeleton and face, however for it you also need to... train properly. Obvious enough but that's where most people fail by indulging into broscience coprophagy, consuming mainstream fitness creators like jewster "Dr" Mike Israetel who doesn't know what happens in the stretch when we had studies on it for YEARS. I am not presenting myself as entirely truthful and professional, but I will share my tips based on my research and some experience.

FUNDAMENTALS
There are 3 key variables to training:

• Frequency: How many times you hit a muscle in a week. If you do 1x i.e Bro split JFL stop. The main reasons why frequency matters and why 1<2<3 (though the difference between 2x and 3x won't be as significant) is because protein synthesis naturally lasts only about few days. Afterwards atrophy begins, so doing bro split you will have your muscles do nothing but atrophy for about a week. Surely they won't visually shrink that fast but it still stunts your progress.
  Spoiler: Graphs

  View attachment 3760679View attachment 3760691View attachment 3760703
• Intensity: Train with 0 to 2 reps in reserve, nothing much to say here. 1-2 warm up sets prior to working ones. (i.e 1 warm up set 50% of working for 5, 2 set 75% for 3). Stay within 4-8 rep range for working sets, add 1-2kgs upon reaching upper end of the range.
• Volume: Ages old debate. However the simple answer is that it's a highly individual variable, everyone has different MRV (maximum recoverable volume), so experiment with it yourself: the maximum amount is around 3 sets 3x a week. Start with 1 set 3x a week or 2 sets 2x a week and adjust later if you think you can do more. Some muscle groups might have different recovery, so don't rush to increase volume everywhere. In my case, the quads recover very fast, and they are estimated to be one of the least damage-prone muscles on average, while chest and biceps are the opposite, but this isn't definitive.

PROGRAMMING
Now that we've figured out the fundamentals, let's dive deeper into programming and routines.
Routines
Most beginners don't understand what exactly should they be doing at the gym and hop between routines and never making proper progress. Here's some of the most popular variants:

• PPL (Push Pull Legs)
• Arnold
• Upper/Lower
• Hybrids like PPLxArnold
• Fullbody

While either could work if programmed correctly, most of them have a single, major caveat.
5-6 days routines like PPL can be great for growth but oftentimes it generates CNS fatigue that carries over to subsequent workouts, degrading perfomance and progress. Even though your other muscles at rest, your body also needs rest! Training more than 4 days as a natural is just unnecessary. Do what you like, but if you want max gains, then you should rethink your programming.

Better alternative would be Upper/Lower, Front/Back (basically PPL but legs are divided and merged to Push Pull days based on their motion) and Fullbody.
U/L and F/B have 2x frequency, while Fullbody is 3x (or 3.5x if you do EOD). Though as I have mentioned before, the difference between 2x and 3x frequency isn't that major, but for best gains more frequency will be, obviously, better.

Exercise selection
This is the part where many people end up making total mess, devoid of any understanding of programming.
The best exercise for a muscle group is the one that is:

• involves only single joint
• stable
• offers greater leverage for the joint action (though neuromechanical matching is still largely theoretical)
• not hard to load

TIP: If you want to bring up a muscle, start doing it first during the workout.

I will briefly go on about how to target major muscles groups properly, but I will keep it short and simple so this doesn't become a entire lesson:

Spoiler: Chest

Functions:

• Shoulder flexion (Clavicular i.e upper region)
• Horizontal abduction (Mid-to-lower region)

MYTH: Incline targets upper chest
Incline doesn't actually matter and doesn't shift bias. What matters is your armpath, so when your arms are more tucked in, you are performing shoulder flexion which is the function of upper chest. When they're more wide to the sides, that is horizontal abduction.
The best for upper chest would be something like clavicular fly (look it up on TT) or, in a compound - chest press with tucked arm path. Pec deck for mid-to-lower. You don't have to bias every region separately, you will be alright with a single chest exercise. Locking out on presses isn't absolutely necessary because your triceps take over there

Spoiler: Biceps, Brachioradialias (BRD)

Functions:

• Elbow flexion
• Forearm supination

Biceps is quite simple to train yet many people overcomplicate it, thinking you can isolate the two heads (you can't). A supinated curl with descending resistance profile i.e hardest at the bottom will work the best (freeweight or machine preacher curl with descending resistance). You can also load supinations to target additional fibers of biceps, though this is very optional but beneficial if you REALLY want to milk your biceps.

BRD has the best leverage above 90 degrees of flexion, reverse curl will hit it well.

Spoiler: Back

Back has 3 main muscles: Lats (width), trapezius (thickness, mainly lower and middle fibers) and erector spinae.

Lats perform shoulder extension (i.e a Sagittal plane row) and shoulder adduction (i.e pulldowns). There are currently debate going on whether you can bias upper and lower lats, so depends on who you believe, load both actions or just pick one.

Trapezius perform scapular retraction, so a upper back row or Kelso shrug will hit them. IMO I would recommend Kelsos because sometimes rows can be limited by rear delts, and a shrug is pure scapular retraction, which has a tiny range of motion.

Erectors extend and laterally flex your spine. Hyperextensions isolate them.

Spoiler: Shoulders

Shoulders primarily consist of 3 heads: Front, lateral and rear.
Front performs shoulder flexion at higher degrees, so a overhead press variation or front raise will hit them the best.
Lateral performs shoulder abduction, so a lateral raise variation will directly hit it. (YES YOU CAN ALSO GO HEAVY ON THOSE)
Rear performs shoulder extension, so a rear delt fly will directly hit it.

Spoiler: Triceps

Extends elbow. Long head also assists in shoulder extension. A pushdown will hit all heads (just dont do rope pls) but bias long head (that shit hanging from your arm when you do a front biceps) since the humerus is fixed.
Lateral and medial heads are biased in movements where the humerus moves (Close-grip bench press, JM press). If you already do chest and shoulder pressing you may just do a pushdown.

Spoiler: Forearms

Forearms are a great halo and yes, they are genetic.. just like every other muscle.
Forearms have a lot of functions but the "main" ones are wrist/finger flexion/extension. Reverse and regular wrist curls will do (plus normal reverse curls as brachioradialias is the largest forearm muscle. Static holds like weighted deadhangs or farmer carries can also work.

Spoiler: Quadriceps

Primarily performs knee flexion but one of it's heads (rectus femoris) crosses both hip and knee joints and does hip flexion as well. Squat pattern hits quads well BUT recfem suffers from active insufficiency (knees and hips flex on descension, recfem lengthens at the knee but shortens at hip, on ascension it's the opposite. Due to that it remains at a relatively constant length, reducing it's ability to produce force. Leg extensions hit ALL heads, including recfem since the hip is fixed. Squat pattern still can be included for maximalism (like, additional stretch-mediated adaptations) and vastus bias.

Spoiler: Hamstrings

Consists of 3 heads, all are biarticular meaning they cross both hip and knee, performing knee flexion and hip extensions.
Hamstring curls load knee flexion, working mainly distal hamstrings (closer to knee), a hip hinge (SLDL, 45 extensions with hamstring bias) work mainly proximal (closer to the hip since it's hip extension). Both should be done for complete hamstring development

Spoiler: Abs

MUHH ABS ARE MADE IN THE KITCHEN!!!! - they are revealed there, developed abs show up at higher bf% and look even better at lower. Mainly does spinal flexion (bending spine forward), so a crunch will hit them entirely. Use either a machine or cable, or hold plates/ a dumbbell on a decline bench.

Spoiler: Calves

Calves have two heads (soleus and gastrocnemius), but the soleus is more distal and deeper, so it doesn't give much aesthetical benefit, Gastrocnemius is more shallow, so just do a straight-leg (NOT SEATED AS SOLEUS TAKES OVER THERE) calf raise/or a press.

DIET
Fortunately unless you are borderline anorexic at a extremely low body fat, a surplus is unnecessary, simply because hypertrophy is signal-induced, not from energy. As long as you eat enough to support your hormones and energy (especially pre-workout, get some carbs in before) and 1.6 to 2.2 kg of protein per kg of bodyweight, you are good. Deficit doesn't entirely kill progress as well (unless you are just starving yourself)

ENDING
I spent hours writing this so don't DNR me or I will kill myself. JK I actually enjoyed it so whatever.
TL;DR: do fullbody/upperlower, start with 1-2 sets per exercise and increase based on recovery, 4-8 rep range 0-2rir, prioritise stable and single joint exercises, eat enough carbs and protein

Just put the hypertrophy in the bag bro, great thread do u follow yotalks or Keenan? (if u know them) I get most my info off them or do u js research everything yourself

 

[keife]

if you already are on the sbl side of tiktok then this thread is going to be water mostly, havent seen really anything about it here though

INTRODUCTION
I think most of us can agree that muscles are a decent halo given you don't have subhuman skeleton and face, however for it you also need to... train properly. Obvious enough but that's where most people fail by indulging into broscience coprophagy, consuming mainstream fitness creators like jewster "Dr" Mike Israetel who doesn't know what happens in the stretch when we had studies on it for YEARS. I am not presenting myself as entirely truthful and professional, but I will share my tips based on my research and some experience.

FUNDAMENTALS
There are 3 key variables to training:

• Frequency: How many times you hit a muscle in a week. If you do 1x i.e Bro split JFL stop. The main reasons why frequency matters and why 1<2<3 (though the difference between 2x and 3x won't be as significant) is because protein synthesis naturally lasts only about few days. Afterwards atrophy begins, so doing bro split you will have your muscles do nothing but atrophy for about a week. Surely they won't visually shrink that fast but it still stunts your progress.
  Spoiler: Graphs

  View attachment 3760679View attachment 3760691View attachment 3760703
• Intensity: Train with 0 to 2 reps in reserve, nothing much to say here. 1-2 warm up sets prior to working ones. (i.e 1 warm up set 50% of working for 5, 2 set 75% for 3). Stay within 4-8 rep range for working sets, add 1-2kgs upon reaching upper end of the range.
• Volume: Ages old debate. However the simple answer is that it's a highly individual variable, everyone has different MRV (maximum recoverable volume), so experiment with it yourself: the maximum amount is around 3 sets 3x a week. Start with 1 set 3x a week or 2 sets 2x a week and adjust later if you think you can do more. Some muscle groups might have different recovery, so don't rush to increase volume everywhere. In my case, the quads recover very fast, and they are estimated to be one of the least damage-prone muscles on average, while chest and biceps are the opposite, but this isn't definitive.

PROGRAMMING
Now that we've figured out the fundamentals, let's dive deeper into programming and routines.
Routines
Most beginners don't understand what exactly should they be doing at the gym and hop between routines and never making proper progress. Here's some of the most popular variants:

• PPL (Push Pull Legs)
• Arnold
• Upper/Lower
• Hybrids like PPLxArnold
• Fullbody

While either could work if programmed correctly, most of them have a single, major caveat.
5-6 days routines like PPL can be great for growth but oftentimes it generates CNS fatigue that carries over to subsequent workouts, degrading perfomance and progress. Even though your other muscles at rest, your body also needs rest! Training more than 4 days as a natural is just unnecessary. Do what you like, but if you want max gains, then you should rethink your programming.

Better alternative would be Upper/Lower, Front/Back (basically PPL but legs are divided and merged to Push Pull days based on their motion) and Fullbody.
U/L and F/B have 2x frequency, while Fullbody is 3x (or 3.5x if you do EOD). Though as I have mentioned before, the difference between 2x and 3x frequency isn't that major, but for best gains more frequency will be, obviously, better.

Exercise selection
This is the part where many people end up making total mess, devoid of any understanding of programming.
The best exercise for a muscle group is the one that is:

• involves only single joint
• stable
• offers greater leverage for the joint action (though neuromechanical matching is still largely theoretical)
• not hard to load

TIP: If you want to bring up a muscle, start doing it first during the workout.

I will briefly go on about how to target major muscles groups properly, but I will keep it short and simple so this doesn't become a entire lesson:

Spoiler: Chest

Functions:

• Shoulder flexion (Clavicular i.e upper region)
• Horizontal abduction (Mid-to-lower region)

MYTH: Incline targets upper chest
Incline doesn't actually matter and doesn't shift bias. What matters is your armpath, so when your arms are more tucked in, you are performing shoulder flexion which is the function of upper chest. When they're more wide to the sides, that is horizontal abduction.
The best for upper chest would be something like clavicular fly (look it up on TT) or, in a compound - chest press with tucked arm path. Pec deck for mid-to-lower. You don't have to bias every region separately, you will be alright with a single chest exercise. Locking out on presses isn't absolutely necessary because your triceps take over there

Spoiler: Biceps, Brachioradialias (BRD)

Functions:

• Elbow flexion
• Forearm supination

Biceps is quite simple to train yet many people overcomplicate it, thinking you can isolate the two heads (you can't). A supinated curl with descending resistance profile i.e hardest at the bottom will work the best (freeweight or machine preacher curl with descending resistance). You can also load supinations to target additional fibers of biceps, though this is very optional but beneficial if you REALLY want to milk your biceps.

BRD has the best leverage above 90 degrees of flexion, reverse curl will hit it well.

Spoiler: Back

Back has 3 main muscles: Lats (width), trapezius (thickness, mainly lower and middle fibers) and erector spinae.

Lats perform shoulder extension (i.e a Sagittal plane row) and shoulder adduction (i.e pulldowns). There are currently debate going on whether you can bias upper and lower lats, so depends on who you believe, load both actions or just pick one.

Trapezius perform scapular retraction, so a upper back row or Kelso shrug will hit them. IMO I would recommend Kelsos because sometimes rows can be limited by rear delts, and a shrug is pure scapular retraction, which has a tiny range of motion.

Erectors extend and laterally flex your spine. Hyperextensions isolate them.

Spoiler: Shoulders

Shoulders primarily consist of 3 heads: Front, lateral and rear.
Front performs shoulder flexion at higher degrees, so a overhead press variation or front raise will hit them the best.
Lateral performs shoulder abduction, so a lateral raise variation will directly hit it. (YES YOU CAN ALSO GO HEAVY ON THOSE)
Rear performs shoulder extension, so a rear delt fly will directly hit it.

Spoiler: Triceps

Extends elbow. Long head also assists in shoulder extension. A pushdown will hit all heads (just dont do rope pls) but bias long head (that shit hanging from your arm when you do a front biceps) since the humerus is fixed.
Lateral and medial heads are biased in movements where the humerus moves (Close-grip bench press, JM press). If you already do chest and shoulder pressing you may just do a pushdown.

Spoiler: Forearms

Forearms are a great halo and yes, they are genetic.. just like every other muscle.
Forearms have a lot of functions but the "main" ones are wrist/finger flexion/extension. Reverse and regular wrist curls will do (plus normal reverse curls as brachioradialias is the largest forearm muscle. Static holds like weighted deadhangs or farmer carries can also work.

Spoiler: Quadriceps

Primarily performs knee flexion but one of it's heads (rectus femoris) crosses both hip and knee joints and does hip flexion as well. Squat pattern hits quads well BUT recfem suffers from active insufficiency (knees and hips flex on descension, recfem lengthens at the knee but shortens at hip, on ascension it's the opposite. Due to that it remains at a relatively constant length, reducing it's ability to produce force. Leg extensions hit ALL heads, including recfem since the hip is fixed. Squat pattern still can be included for maximalism (like, additional stretch-mediated adaptations) and vastus bias.

Spoiler: Hamstrings

Consists of 3 heads, all are biarticular meaning they cross both hip and knee, performing knee flexion and hip extensions.
Hamstring curls load knee flexion, working mainly distal hamstrings (closer to knee), a hip hinge (SLDL, 45 extensions with hamstring bias) work mainly proximal (closer to the hip since it's hip extension). Both should be done for complete hamstring development

Spoiler: Abs

MUHH ABS ARE MADE IN THE KITCHEN!!!! - they are revealed there, developed abs show up at higher bf% and look even better at lower. Mainly does spinal flexion (bending spine forward), so a crunch will hit them entirely. Use either a machine or cable, or hold plates/ a dumbbell on a decline bench.

Spoiler: Calves

Calves have two heads (soleus and gastrocnemius), but the soleus is more distal and deeper, so it doesn't give much aesthetical benefit, Gastrocnemius is more shallow, so just do a straight-leg (NOT SEATED AS SOLEUS TAKES OVER THERE) calf raise/or a press.

DIET
Fortunately unless you are borderline anorexic at a extremely low body fat, a surplus is unnecessary, simply because hypertrophy is signal-induced, not from energy. As long as you eat enough to support your hormones and energy (especially pre-workout, get some carbs in before) and 1.6 to 2.2 kg of protein per kg of bodyweight, you are good. Deficit doesn't entirely kill progress as well (unless you are just starving yourself)

ENDING
I spent hours writing this so don't DNR me or I will kill myself. JK I actually enjoyed it so whatever.
TL;DR: do fullbody/upperlower, start with 1-2 sets per exercise and increase based on recovery, 4-8 rep range 0-2rir, prioritise stable and single joint exercises, eat enough carbs and protein

Do you think science based training is worth if ur on roids? Most people I’ve asked said no

 

[yesimog420]

Enjoy ur stress peaks by doing 15 reps, while I get stronger and bigger by doing a set of 5 reps max.

YOU can't, nigga I've progressed practically 1kg in lateral raise jfl that would be easier

yeah

No it's not, u are probably not a biological rare case that goes against the norm for ur species. @copercel123 @jeff1234 Look at idiot gymcels who deal with their huge training sheets, u can just put a lot of weight and do 1 valid set jfl

Probably didn't read the jfl studies

JFL IS IT RIGHT TO ACONULATE FATIGUE?

There is no such thing as an animal plateau, the progression of reps or load alone shows that u are evolving.
Progression-results. ACONULAR volume is the worst possible method that should only be used in specific cases you idiot


ur genetics are horrible and u still accumulate fatigue JFL @copercel123 @jeff1234 @CEO
Be a real man u retard and not a faggot who spends 10 hours training,learn the basics of biology before saying "it's extremely individual" sftu dumbass
Involuntary slowing: hypertrophy.

Shoulders are not very receptive to large sets, do low sets. What is ur warm up?
And yes, 2 years of training doesn't make u an uncle in that

Oh I see well my warmup is just 1 set of 10 reps and it’s included in the 4 sets I do so 1 warming set then 3 workings sets

 

[temurosetoy7]

congrats first person ive seen on org that knows what they r talking about for gym shit