💀 The 3 Most Important Craniofacial Plane Angles for Aesthetics [3D Morphs]

Mandibular Plane Angle

Animation Range: 0º to 45º Below Horizon

Ideal Pitch: 12.5º Degrees Below Horizon

Spoiler: Examples of Good Mandibular Plane Angles

Spoiler: Subhuman Examples

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Orbitomaxillary Plane Angle

Animation Range: 2.5º Inward to 30º Outward

Ideal Yaw: 25º Outward

Spoiler: Examples of Good Orbitomaxillary Plane Angles

Spoiler: Subhuman Examples

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Temporal Plane Angle

Animation Range: 0º to 30º

Ideal Yaw: 10º

Spoiler: Examples of Good Temporal Plane Angles

Spoiler: Subhuman Examples

 

[Deleted member 96940]

We thought the look of high temporal plane angles were because of eye spacing. But there is a technical distinction you may refresh yourself about by reading these two threads.

Is IPD/bizygomatic (ESR) a bad ratio? A new ratio for eye spacing?

I feel like ICD is more important than ESR. The reason why I think this is that I see people with bad ESR due to a wide face but the eyes don't look close set. I was talking to @iblamemygenes yesterday and he made the point that Jordan Barrett doesn't look like he has close set eyes even...

looksmax.org

yeah i remember the 1st thread, i used to be correct back than about the reason why JB his eyes looked closer set due to the temporal plane angle. My explanations were just a mess with extra stuff which wasnt needed at all.

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I feel like we could do better with other stuff aswell like the jaw frontal angle.
sometimes i see narrow-faced people with still good jaw frontal angles due to the chin's horizontal length being shorter on some individuals.

so we should basicly start using the bigonial width : horizontal chin length more.

shorter horizontal chin length on narrow faces = more angularity due to the jaw having a wider angle to go to the gonions.

second person's jfa is worse due to him having a wider chin : bigonial

bad example but whatever.

so we should start using the chin more to measure.

 

[Deleted member 96940]

View attachment 4106851

try to lower his nasolabial angle
its gonna be really hard looking at his face but a good challenge!

 

[Deleted member 96940]

View attachment 4106871

try to lower his nasolabial angle
its gonna be really hard looking at his face but a good challenge!

@Lookologist003 why did you jfl was your plan to not morph him entirely?

 

[Lookologist003]

@Lookologist003 why did you jfl was your plan to not morph him entirely?

Not really jfl I just got home and was raging about good looking guys I saw on my commute

 

[Lookologist003]

sometimes i see narrow-faced people with still good jaw frontal angles due to the chin's horizontal length being shorter on some individuals.

so we should basicly start using the bigonial width : horizontal chin length more.

shorter horizontal chin length on narrow faces = more angularity due to the jaw having a wider angle to go to the gonions.

Yeah Djimo I have thought about this too. I visualize the jaws of the skull as like a trapezoidal prism extended downwards by its base and its base is cut by the MPA and the shorter of its parallel sides is the chin breadth. I think the shape of this contributes greatly to the fullness of a face. But that's a thread for another time. I am still evaluating the repercussions of this thread on my thought process, because little to say these ideas are profound.

Wait, a trapezoidal prism has two sets of parallel lines... Imagine that the top of the prism would touch the teeth or take the teeth's place when imposed onto the shape of the jaws as an abstract representation of the jaws.

 

[iblamemeee]

even got the gifs and stuff high effort

 

[cheeseisbased]

Mandibular Plane Angle

View attachment 4054612 View attachment 4054616

Animation Range: 0º to 45º Below Horizon

Ideal Pitch: 12.5º Degrees Below Horizon

Spoiler: Examples of Good Mandibular Plane Angles

View attachment 4054663View attachment 4054628View attachment 4054627

Spoiler: Subhuman Examples

View attachment 4054632View attachment 4054633View attachment 4054636View attachment 4054637

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Orbitomaxillary Plane Angle

View attachment 4054618 View attachment 4054620

Animation Range: 2.5º Inward to 30º Outward

Ideal Yaw: 25º Outward

Spoiler: Examples of Good Orbitomaxillary Plane Angles

View attachment 4054653View attachment 4054654View attachment 4054655

Spoiler: Subhuman Examples

View attachment 4054658View attachment 4054659

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Temporal Plane Angle

View attachment 4054621 View attachment 4054622

Animation Range: 0º to 30º

Ideal Yaw: 10º

Spoiler: Examples of Good Temporal Plane Angles

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Spoiler: Subhuman Examples

View attachment 4054642View attachment 4054643View attachment 4054645View attachment 4054646

Orbitomaxillary Plane Angle it's the biggest flaws for me lol

 

[justlurkingaround]

Really good thread, every single thread i see from you is very interesting, best poster on here definitely. I wish you didn't hide your posts though, I'd like to scroll through all the thread you've posted

 

[cheeseisbased]

Mandibular Plane Angle

View attachment 4054612 View attachment 4054616

Animation Range: 0º to 45º Below Horizon

Ideal Pitch: 12.5º Degrees Below Horizon

Spoiler: Examples of Good Mandibular Plane Angles

View attachment 4054663View attachment 4054628View attachment 4054627

Spoiler: Subhuman Examples

View attachment 4054632View attachment 4054633View attachment 4054636View attachment 4054637

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Orbitomaxillary Plane Angle

View attachment 4054618 View attachment 4054620

Animation Range: 2.5º Inward to 30º Outward

Ideal Yaw: 25º Outward

Spoiler: Examples of Good Orbitomaxillary Plane Angles

View attachment 4054653View attachment 4054654View attachment 4054655

Spoiler: Subhuman Examples

View attachment 4054658View attachment 4054659

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Temporal Plane Angle

View attachment 4054621 View attachment 4054622

Animation Range: 0º to 30º

Ideal Yaw: 10º

Spoiler: Examples of Good Temporal Plane Angles

View attachment 4054651View attachment 4054649View attachment 4054652

Spoiler: Subhuman Examples

View attachment 4054642View attachment 4054643View attachment 4054645View attachment 4054646

my Orbitomaxillary Plane Angle it's bad but my nose is just sticking out instead like no smooth transition between the nose side, what does that even mean?

 

[Debetro]

yea I’m gonna get a forehead implant to Caucasoid prominent forehead maxx

View attachment 4064036

What's insane about her profile is not the forehead.

 

[Lookologist003]

Estimating the temporal plane angle
These estimations are possible due to the principles of projective geometry and the proportions of difference.

The prerequisites are a photograph of the face in a frontal profile. The estimation will be more accurate if the photo isn't a selfie and the guy is looking dead-on at the camera. It doesn't work with women who have long hair that falls over their temples, unless you ask them to tie their hair back before taking the photo. And it will be more accurate if the hair around the face is a buzzcut or bald. The further the focal distance is the more accurate the estimation will be.

This estimation is the arc tangent of the ratio of the difference of the picture's interfrontale breadth and the biporon.

My examples are Jack Ma, who is the exemplary subhuman (a male 2/10) and Jerma985, who is the exemplary Chad (a male 7.5/10). If you follow my workings, you'll see that the values that Thecel chose for exposition in his animations of this thread are in fact representative of anthropromorphic ideals.

I mark their interfrontale breadth in a green line as is estimated by their eyebrows. Men's eyebrows usually rest and cover their supras (the fact is in the section titled 'Brow Lift') and the distance between supras is virtually the interfrontale breadth (@thecel this is an important soft sex indicator if you will read the FFS literature review I linked). I mark their biporon in a blue line. Measuring the biporon can be challenging, because there is hair that obscures that facial landmark. So I chose to example two men as they exited the barber who did them with a 4 or 5 millimeter guard on their razor. Men usually have haircuts with short sides, so it's not such a problem, but I do make note of it.

Jack Ma

1) Between hair of head (biporon) = 413px
2) Between eyebrows (interfrontale breadth) = 216px
3) Difference is 197px
4) Ratio is 197px:413px is 197:413 is 0.48 to 2 decimal places
5) Arc tangent ('atan()' on Windows calculator) of 0.48 is 26 degrees
Estimation Jack Ma's temporal plane angle is 26 degrees, 16 off ideal.

Jerma985

1) Between hair of head = 398px
2) Between eyebrows = 308px
3) Difference is 90px
4) Ratio is 90px:398px is 90:398 is 0.23 to 2 decimal places
5) Arc tangent of 0.23 is 13 degrees
Estimation of Jerma985's temporal plane angle is 13 degrees, 3 off ideal.

(Jack Ma is not quite as subhuman as when I made an incorrect calculation earlier in this thread, but he still is subhuman. Trigonometry is about the limits of my IQ. My brain got overheated, sorry about that.)

@AscendingHero you wanted a method of estimating temporal plane angles? This is one. There's a similar method but with more steps for estimating orbitomaxillary plane angles. I will make another post if you're so interested. But it might take me a while to regrow the braincels that suicided in the process of me writing this post.

@thecel
@NuclearGeo20
@mandiblade

 

[Chudmann]

I am seeing a recurrence in the ethnicities of the examples.

 

[VampyrMaxx]

Estimating the temporal plane angle
These estimations are possible due to the principles of projective geometry and the proportions of difference.

The prerequisites are a photograph of the face in a frontal profile. The estimation will be more accurate if the photo isn't a selfie and the guy is looking dead-on at the camera. It doesn't work with women who have long hair that falls over their temples, unless you ask them to tie their hair back before taking the photo. And it will be more accurate if the hair around the face is a buzzcut or bald. The further the focal distance is the more accurate the estimation will be.

This estimation is the arc tangent of the ratio of the difference of the picture's interfrontale breadth and the biporon.

My examples are Jack Ma, who is the exemplary subhuman (a male 2/10) and Jerma985, who is the exemplary Chad (a male 7.5/10). If you follow my workings, you'll see that the values that Thecel chose for exposition in his animations of this thread are in fact representative of anthropromorphic ideals.

I mark their interfrontale breadth in a green line as is estimated by their eyebrows. Men's eyebrows usually rest and cover their supras (the fact is in the section titled 'Brow Lift') and the distance between supras is virtually the interfrontale breadth (@thecel this is an important soft sex indicator if you will read the FFS literature review I linked). I mark their biporon in a blue line. Measuring the biporon can be challenging, because there is hair that obscures that facial landmark. So I chose to example two men as they exited the barber who did them with a 4 or 5 millimeter guard on their razor. Men usually have haircuts with short sides, so it's not such a problem, but I do make note of it.

Jack Ma
View attachment 4124760

1) Between hair of head (biporon) = 413px
2) Between eyebrows (interfrontale breadth) = 216px
3) Difference is 197px
4) Ratio is 197px:413px is 197:413 is 0.48 to 2 decimal places
5) Arc tangent ('atan()' on Windows calculator) of 0.48 is 26 degrees
Estimation Jack Ma's temporal plane angle is 26 degrees, 16 off ideal.

Jerma985
View attachment 4124790

1) Between hair of head = 398px
2) Between eyebrows = 308px
3) Difference is 90px
4) Ratio is 90px:398px is 90:398 is 0.23 to 2 decimal places
5) Arc tangent of 0.23 is 13 degrees
Estimation of Jerma985's temporal plane angle is 13 degrees, 3 off ideal.

(Jack Ma is not quite as subhuman as when I made an incorrect calculation earlier in this thread, but he still is subhuman. Trigonometry is about the limits of my IQ. My brain got overheated, sorry about that.)

@AscendingHero you wanted a method of estimating temporal plane angles? This is one. There's a similar method but with more steps for estimating orbitomaxillary plane angles. I will make another post if you're so interested. But it might take me a while to regrow the braincels that suicided in the process of me writing this post.

@thecel
@NuclearGeo20
@mandiblade

Damn, were out here doing trig.

Your method is the best way to measure the angle accurately (other than getting a CT scan). The only thing id really say is I think it would be better to use the Bitemporal Width instead of the width of the eyebrows for a little bit more accuracy.

Mirin pattern recognition, I definitely want to see a post on orbitomaxillary.

 

[VampyrMaxx]

In terms of the orbitomaxillary angle, do the lateral orbital rims have to recess or protrude in harmony with the paranasal region.

For example couldn't a person have a forward grown upper maxilla and also a forward LOR. Or couldn't a person also have recessed LOR with recessed upper maxilla.

 

[VampyrMaxx]

Please make a thread on ideal skull length/wide/height including raw measurements (inches, cm/mms) in the 3d planes

As well as the importance of the brain case/volume -> and the subsequent raw length measurements of succeeding cranial features (mandible, orbits, cheekbones, dry bone, excluding soft tissue and then including it, etc etc

Would yall agree on these measurements for the front profile?

Ideal measurements from the front profile

IPD- 65mm
Nasal Height (Vertical distance from pupil to subnasal) - 54mm
Philtrum Height- 15mm
Bizygomatic Width- 143mm
Mouth Width- 54mm
Vertical Chin Height- 40mm
Skull Height (Pogonion to Vertex)- 236mm
Biporon Width- 159mm
Top lip Height- 6mm
Bottom Lip Height- 10mm
Forehead Width (Bi-temporal)- 127mm
Bigonial Width- 132mm
Ear Height- 58mm
Intercanthal Distance- 33mm
Jaw frontal angle- 106 degrees
PFL- Whatever Atesh Salih has

I think the biporon width, bitemporal width, bizygomatic width, bigonial width should all harmonize to maintain frontal harmony and to maintain the temporal plane angle, as seen in cases like Jordan Barrett where his features have to compensate for his wide skull. This is just a general insight into the ideal skull.

From the side the skulls depth should be similar to this guy. In terms of measurements, I wouldn't know.

Basically, your skull should look similar to OmniMan.

In terms of features such as the height and vertical distance of the cheekbones, midface, lower maxilla (subnasal to bottom of teeth) and angles of the midface, I'm also quite unfamiliar.

Thoughts? @mandiblade @Lookologist003

*Also there are slight deviations to account for race*

Ideal or almost ideal Caucasian face

 

[mandiblade]

Estimating the temporal plane angle
These estimations are possible due to the principles of projective geometry and the proportions of difference.

The prerequisites are a photograph of the face in a frontal profile. The estimation will be more accurate if the photo isn't a selfie and the guy is looking dead-on at the camera. It doesn't work with women who have long hair that falls over their temples, unless you ask them to tie their hair back before taking the photo. And it will be more accurate if the hair around the face is a buzzcut or bald. The further the focal distance is the more accurate the estimation will be.

This estimation is the arc tangent of the ratio of the difference of the picture's interfrontale breadth and the biporon.

My examples are Jack Ma, who is the exemplary subhuman (a male 2/10) and Jerma985, who is the exemplary Chad (a male 7.5/10). If you follow my workings, you'll see that the values that Thecel chose for exposition in his animations of this thread are in fact representative of anthropromorphic ideals.

I mark their interfrontale breadth in a green line as is estimated by their eyebrows. Men's eyebrows usually rest and cover their supras (the fact is in the section titled 'Brow Lift') and the distance between supras is virtually the interfrontale breadth (@thecel this is an important soft sex indicator if you will read the FFS literature review I linked). I mark their biporon in a blue line. Measuring the biporon can be challenging, because there is hair that obscures that facial landmark. So I chose to example two men as they exited the barber who did them with a 4 or 5 millimeter guard on their razor. Men usually have haircuts with short sides, so it's not such a problem, but I do make note of it.

Jack Ma
View attachment 4124760

1) Between hair of head (biporon) = 413px
2) Between eyebrows (interfrontale breadth) = 216px
3) Difference is 197px
4) Ratio is 197px:413px is 197:413 is 0.48 to 2 decimal places
5) Arc tangent ('atan()' on Windows calculator) of 0.48 is 26 degrees
Estimation Jack Ma's temporal plane angle is 26 degrees, 16 off ideal.

Jerma985
View attachment 4124790

1) Between hair of head = 398px
2) Between eyebrows = 308px
3) Difference is 90px
4) Ratio is 90px:398px is 90:398 is 0.23 to 2 decimal places
5) Arc tangent of 0.23 is 13 degrees
Estimation of Jerma985's temporal plane angle is 13 degrees, 3 off ideal.

(Jack Ma is not quite as subhuman as when I made an incorrect calculation earlier in this thread, but he still is subhuman. Trigonometry is about the limits of my IQ. My brain got overheated, sorry about that.)

@AscendingHero you wanted a method of estimating temporal plane angles? This is one. There's a similar method but with more steps for estimating orbitomaxillary plane angles. I will make another post if you're so interested. But it might take me a while to regrow the braincels that suicided in the process of me writing this post.

@thecel
@NuclearGeo20
@mandiblade

This is brilliant. Mirin hard. I would have never thought of this in a thousand years. You just inspired me to write my .org essay that I promised you a couple weeks back.
I do not want to try to put you down by any means as this was an amazing discovery, but for future readers autists:

• When he references "interfrontale breadth," I think the term he was referencing was the distance between the two frontotemporale or frontomalare points. For any autists that want a source:
  • https://www.researchgate.net/figure...emporale-n-Nasion-d-Dacryon-ec_fig1_348609377
  • https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Anatomic-landmarks-in-the-anterior-view_fig1_44617859
  • https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00414-024-03305-0/figures/1
    • Explanation: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00414-024-03305-0/tables/1
• By "porion," he means "eurion."
• If you are getting around 0.45 when you try to calculate the arctan of 0.48, you are getting the result in radians. Convert it to degrees to get ~26°.
  • Example using libqalculate cli tool(qalc)
    • 

To anyone reading this, no, I am not as knowledgeable as I may seem.

In terms of the orbitomaxillary angle, do the lateral orbital rims have to recess or protrude in harmony with the paranasal region.

For example couldn't a person have a forward grown upper maxilla and also a forward LOR. Or couldn't a person also have recessed LOR with recessed upper maxilla.

I'm not sure. At least to me, moving forward one's LORs doesn't really seem to make the nasal aperture look less projected.

Thoughts?

Will hopefully make a thread on this soon

 

[thecel]

I'm not sure. At least to me, moving forward one's LORs doesn't really seem to make the nasal aperture look less projected.

That didn’t move his LOR forward lol. You left his LOR behind, and you made his eyeball forward-protruded and both his PFL and IPD look lower.

This is forward LOR morph:

 

[mogmypsl999]

putting kirk as a subhuman example wasn't neccesary...

 

[Lookologist003]

In terms of the orbitomaxillary angle, do the lateral orbital rims have to recess or protrude in harmony with the paranasal region.

For example couldn't a person have a forward grown upper maxilla and also a forward LOR. Or couldn't a person also have recessed LOR with recessed upper maxilla.

I think what matters in the side profile is the total distance from the most setback point of the LOR to the most extruded part of the uppermaxilla. It is a good question. I have asked myself it before.

---

@thecel you created something very useful here in this thread. It's linked to the orbitomaxillary plane angle and upper maxillary projection. Don't forget about it! People who know nothing about looks theory can become blackpilled by magic lines.

Is Your Side Profile Aesthetic? The Profile Cross

Attractive side profiles have something in common: they pass the crisscross test. To administer the crisscross test on a facial profile, draw 3 lines: Draw a line from the forehead right above of the brow bone (frontal sinus) to the front of the chin. Draw a line from the eye’s pupil to the...

looksmax.org

 

[Lookologist003]

Estimating the temporal plane angle

Final correction to make, because this method is missing one bit of information that can make it more accurate: the cephalic index or the anterior cephalic index / temporal dominance ratio

The difference ought to be divided by (based on) the person's cephalic index so the estimation ends up closer to the mark.

Let's assume Jack Ma has a cephalic index of 0.8, if you've seen other photos of him, yeah... not good.

3) Difference is 197px
4) Ratio is 197px:413px is 197:413 is 0.48 to 2 decimal places

3) Difference is 197
4) 197px divided by 0.8 is 246px
5) Ratio is 246px:413px is 246:413 is 0.60 to 2 decmial places
6) Arc tangent of 0.60 is 31 degrees
7) Estimation of Jack Ma's temporal plane angle is 31 degrees

If you don't know what their cephalic index is, you can take a guess. The range of known human cephalic indexes are like 0.8-1.4, which is the margins of error of this estimation if you don't supply a cephalic index. If you know the average cephalic index for their race (and that information is widely available because it is used in anthropology), that might help.

Going to revisit Jerma985's estimation using a cool Caucasian cephalic index of 1.2

3) Difference is 90px
4) Ratio is 90px:398px is 90:398 is 0.23 to 2 decimal places
5) Arc tangent of 0.23 is 13 degrees
Estimation of Jerma985's temporal plane angle is 13 degrees, 3 off ideal.

3) Difference is 90px
4) 90px divided by 1.2 is 75px
5) 75px:398px is 75:398 is 0.19 to 2 decimal places
6) Arc tangent of 0.19 is 11 degrees
7) Estimation of Jerma985's temporal plane angle is 11 degrees.

@thecel @mandiblade
Please note that wherever I have written cephalic index in this post, the estimation is even better if it is replaced by anterior cephalic index / temporal dominance ratio, because part of the head behind the widest part of the head is not important.

the distance from the nasion (where the nose bridge goes inwards) to the tragus (a part of the ear) in profile view / the head’s width

I call it the anterior cephalic index. Cus fuck posterior. Including the posterior is a cope for dolicho subhumans

 

[chitarine]

Is there any way to improve flat temporal plane angle or just temple augmentation?

 

[futureashtray]

Do you get a lot of this info from cephalometry or is it from a different field of study that ties into aesthetics?

my nigga these are basic animations from https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/human-skull-b0251e48e906418ebae34b7f811ca065

“cephalometry” “different field of study that tied into aesthetics?”

this isn’t a fucking study or anything. he just looked at a bunch of images, divided between chad and subhuman and looked for the best ratio, degrees, whatever the fuck and made it up, then made some animations

holyshit man

i lose more of my sanity each time i browse this forum…

 

[Deleted member 110192]

@Netanyahu learn

 

[slaters]

@Netanyahu learn

Guy got the prime minister of Israel on looksmax.org

 

[natelma0]

my nigga these are basic animations from https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/human-skull-b0251e48e906418ebae34b7f811ca065

“cephalometry” “different field of study that tied into aesthetics?”

this isn’t a fucking study or anything. he just looked at a bunch of images, divided between chad and subhuman and looked for the best ratio, degrees, whatever the fuck and made it up, then made some animations

holyshit man

i lose more of my sanity each time i browse this forum…

You’re fucking stupid lmfao, I might not be the smartest but the mandibular plane angle, is something that is discussed in cephalometry, literally just facial landmarks and facial planes, which this could easily be tied to cephalometry from, stop trying to be a fucking know it all because I was simply asking a question, and even then the temporal angle or plane or whatever could literally just be brachycephaly or dolichocephaly, so I was just asking if that is what he used because facial aesthetics in of itself is very closely linked with cephalometric facial landmarks and planes

 

[natelma0]

my nigga these are basic animations from https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/human-skull-b0251e48e906418ebae34b7f811ca065

“cephalometry” “different field of study that tied into aesthetics?”

this isn’t a fucking study or anything. he just looked at a bunch of images, divided between chad and subhuman and looked for the best ratio, degrees, whatever the fuck and made it up, then made some animations

holyshit man

i lose more of my sanity each time i browse this forum…

Dudes been on this forum for 2 years and has to get all his info from ts to learn a smidgen of facial aesthetics when you can look it up, which is why I asked if what he is doing has any ties to cephalometry or any cephalic index because I noticed they look quite the same

 

[natelma0]

my nigga these are basic animations from https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/human-skull-b0251e48e906418ebae34b7f811ca065

“cephalometry” “different field of study that tied into aesthetics?”

this isn’t a fucking study or anything. he just looked at a bunch of images, divided between chad and subhuman and looked for the best ratio, degrees, whatever the fuck and made it up, then made some animations

holyshit man

i lose more of my sanity each time i browse this forum…

Also I don’t use 3d software since I type mostly on nothing but a phone, so I wouldn’t know either way, and how much of a fucking tard do you have to be to make fun of someone for asking a question?

 

[futureashtray]

You’re fucking stupid lmfao, I might not be the smartest but the mandibular plane angle, is something that is discussed in cephalometry, literally just facial landmarks and facial planes, which this could easily be tied to cephalometry from, stop trying to be a fucking know it all because I was simply asking a question, and even then the temporal angle or plane or whatever could literally just be brachycephaly or dolichocephaly, so I was just asking if that is what he used because facial aesthetics in of itself is very closely linked with cephalometric facial landmarks and planes

blahblahblah

this whole thread is pissing me off

and

my point still stands

and

unless you’re some maxfac, ratios, angles, degrees, etc are a waste of fucking time. Actually, I don’t even think they care about them all that much either lol

ehh they do, but not the way you look at it.

The way you look at it, the study of whatever called (cephaloFuckYou) is a waste of time.

“oooh yeahhh broo, the ideal degrees for the maxillofrontal suture and vas deferens is 47.49572 so ideal bro, omfg bro look at (random fucking model) his maxillofrontalsuturevasdeferens degreesratioanglelooksmax is so perfect broooo fuckkk ughhh”

 

[natelma0]

blahblahblah

this whole thread is pissing me off

and

my point still stands

and

unless you’re some maxfac, ratios, angles, degrees, etc are a waste of fucking time. Actually, I don’t even think they care about them all that much either lol

ehh they do, but not the way you look at it.

The way you look at it, the study of whatever called (cephaloFuckYou) is a waste of time.

“oooh yeahhh broo, the ideal degrees for the maxillofrontal suture and vas deferens is 47.49572 so ideal bro, omfg bro look at (random fucking model) his maxillofrontalsuturevasdeferens degreesratioanglelooksmax is so perfect broooo fuckkk ughhh”

Dude was hating for no fucking reason and now you can’t even construct an actual good argument

 

[futureashtray]

Dude was hating for no fucking reason and now you can’t even construct an actual good argument

well yeah if you ignore my point then of course there won’t be “an actual good argument”

and there wasn’t really any hating until

he way you look at it, the study of whatever called (cephaloFuckYou) is a waste of time.

“oooh yeahhh broo, the ideal degrees for the maxillofrontal suture and vas deferens is 47.49572 so ideal bro, omfg bro look at (random fucking model) his maxillofrontalsuturevasdeferens degreesratioanglelooksmax is so perfect broooo fuckkk ughhh”

 

[AscendingHero]

@AscendingHero you wanted a method of estimating temporal plane angles? This is one. There's a similar method but with more steps for estimating orbitomaxillary plane angles. I will make another post if you're so interested. But it might take me a while to regrow the braincels that suicided in the process of me writing this post.

Fantastic post, will test it out soon, what application did you use to pixel scale/measure here?

Never seen anything on the "biporon" before, got a diagram/depiction on it?

And Yes I'd love a similar method for orbitomaxillary angles and other other ratios/angles you're fond it

 

[AscendingHero]

Would yall agree on these measurements for the front profile?

Ideal measurements from the front profile

IPD- 65mm
Nasal Height (Vertical distance from pupil to subnasal) - 54mm
Philtrum Height- 15mm
Bizygomatic Width- 143mm
Mouth Width- 54mm
Vertical Chin Height- 40mm
Skull Height (Pogonion to Vertex)- 236mm
Biporon Width- 159mm
Top lip Height- 6mm
Bottom Lip Height- 10mm
Forehead Width (Bi-temporal)- 127mm
Bigonial Width- 132mm
Ear Height- 58mm
Intercanthal Distance- 33mm
Jaw frontal angle- 106 degrees
PFL- Whatever Atesh Salih has

I think the biporon width, bitemporal width, bizygomatic width, bigonial width should all harmonize to maintain frontal harmony and to maintain the temporal plane angle, as seen in cases like Jordan Barrett where his features have to compensate for his wide skull. This is just a general insight into the ideal skull.

From the side the skulls depth should be similar to this guy. In terms of measurements, I wouldn't know.

View attachment 4126256

Basically, your skull should look similar to OmniMan.

View attachment 4126257
View attachment 4126259

In terms of features such as the height and vertical distance of the cheekbones, midface, lower maxilla (subnasal to bottom of teeth) and angles of the midface, I'm also quite unfamiliar.

Thoughts? @mandiblade @Lookologist003

*Also there are slight deviations to account for race*

Ideal or almost ideal Caucasian face

View attachment 4126267

A lot of these numbers are far too low, this is a low level chad heavily caucasoid face at best

 

[AscendingHero]

That didn’t move his LOR forward lol. You left his LOR behind, and you made his eyeball forward-protruded and both his PFL and IPD look lower.

This is forward LOR morph:

View attachment 4134236 View attachment 4134247

Looks like shit (the LOR advanced one) but then it's like how much relative "recession" is ideal, do you want your LORs to be projected yet still have a projected orbitomaxillary area or actually have them recessed with plenty of peripheral orbital globe exposure?

How much independent LOR recession is too much though and how much is perfect, I always cite Lenny Kravitz's eyes "melting" at the side (negative example)

 

[Daddy's Home]

Looks like shit (the LOR advanced one) but then it's like how much relative "recession" is ideal, do you want your LORs to be projected yet still have a projected orbitomaxillary area or actually have them recessed with plenty of peripheral orbital globe exposure?

How much independent LOR recession is too much though and how much is perfect, I always cite Lenny Kravitz's eyes "melting" at the side (negative example)
View attachment 4157982View attachment 4157983View attachment 4157988View attachment 4157989View attachment 4157992

That's ideal (at least as a girl)

 

[AscendingHero]

That's ideal (at least as a girl)

What is ideal specifically?


Woman in the vid is kinda hot but his torso/hips are trash, flactuates between low stacy/high lite to becky tier depending on the shot

Who is she?

Video is not playing well, mind screenshotting an example of her profile anyone?

Who is the woman in your sig btw?

 

[Daddy's Home]

but his torso/hips are trash

I was talking about the face/skull, not the body, wtf

Video is not playing well, mind screenshotting an example of her profile anyone?

Who is the woman in your sig btw?

🦋⠍⠁⠇⠮⠱⠅⠁ ⠁⠝⠝⠁🦋 (@annababelll) • Instagram photos and videos

29K Followers, 1,209 Following, 275 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from 🦋⠍⠁⠇⠮⠱⠅⠁ ⠁⠝⠝⠁🦋 (@annababelll)

www.instagram.com

 

[AscendingHero]

I was talking about the face/skull, not the body, wtf

Everything matters, it's a total package, everything, it's aesthetics, human judge by the sum of its parts

Appreciate it, her LORs look normal more so the illusion stems from just a forward grown frontonasal process and nasal aperture, good anterior depth

Beautiful asf forehead contours and hairlines, would love to measure her convexity angles (or someone can do them for me haha)

What's her name?

29K Followers, 1,209 Following, 275 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from ⠍⠁⠇⠮⠱⠅⠁ ⠁⠝⠝⠁ (@annababelll)

Appreciate it

 

[Daddy's Home]

What's her name?

Nora Kubiliute

Instagram

Create an account or log in to Instagram - Share what you're into with the people who get you.

www.instagram.com

 

[Daddy's Home]

What's her name?

She also has this image that is unmoggable by any girl ever..

 

[AscendingHero]

She also has this image that is unmoggable by any girl ever..

View attachment 4158045

LOL

Looks like a slightly (if that) upgraded Khloe Khardashian, like the sultry looks and makeup here though

 

[Daddy's Home]

LOL

Looks like a slightly (if that) upgraded Khloe Khardashian, like the sultry looks and makeup here though

Neh, she looks like Lima, but the version on steroids (without that ugly big ethnic nose and with better hunter eyes)

 

[AscendingHero]

Neh, she looks like Lima, but the version on steroids (without that ugly big ethnic nose and with better hunter eyes)

View attachment 4158054View attachment 4158057

Slightly better nose (more nasal projected bones and refined cartilage/less soft tissure) and better hairline and chin but everything else is much worse

Brutal orbital/PFL and cheekbone fog, transverse facial width and wide features in general are worse which is massive, apparent midface fog as well (life or death for feamles)

Be serious, ik u like her but come on, been years since I got into these types of debates though haha

 

[AscendingHero]

my nigga these are basic animations from https://sketchfab.com/3d-models/human-skull-b0251e48e906418ebae34b7f811ca065

“cephalometry” “different field of study that tied into aesthetics?”

this isn’t a fucking study or anything. he just looked at a bunch of images, divided between chad and subhuman and looked for the best ratio, degrees, whatever the fuck and made it up, then made some animations

holyshit man

i lose more of my sanity each time i browse this forum…

But he's intelligent enough to make it stick and bring it all together? Isn't that's what this is all about? Aesthetics is just conscious observations and verbalizing beauty, identifying patterns, what looks good to relative degrees always was, he's just shedding further light on it

 

[VampyrMaxx]

A lot of these numbers are far too low, this is a low level chad heavily caucasoid face at best

Really? What measurements would you change?

 

[AscendingHero]

Really? What measurements would you change?

Not striking enough

IPD- 65mm
Nasal Height (Vertical distance from pupil to subnasal) - 54mm
Philtrum Height- 15mm
Bizygomatic Width- 143mm
Mouth Width- 54mm
Vertical Chin Height- 40mm
Skull Height (Pogonion to Vertex)- 236mm
Biporon Width- 159mm
Top lip Height- 6mm
Bottom Lip Height- 10mm
Forehead Width (Bi-temporal)- 127mm
Bigonial Width- 132mm
Ear Height- 58mm
Intercanthal Distance- 33mm
Jaw frontal angle- 106 degrees
PFL- Whatever Atesh Salih has

IPD higher

Stuff like lip, philtrum and forehead height I'd need some references to go off, proportions>sheer size, you should have a big skull so it's hard to solely go off stuff like this

Biporon is Eurion width right?

By vertex you mean top of the cranium right?

Need to verify on ear height but medium size is ideal

Jaw frontal angle 106 degrees?! Post an example/depiction

Nah, far greater PFL moggers than Salih, African Orbit size>>> 40+ mm on way higher ipd/ocd/icd to harmonize is ideal with ideal angles/contours of course but if you can't get perfect go for normie averageness and get striking traits in the eye area elsewhere, if it all comes together it's higher human aesthetics altogether tho

Philtrum height 15mm is too long imo for peak aesthetics, 10-13 mogs>>>

most people do not have a short philtrum

reserved for terrachads observe the short (10-13mm), fully concave philtrum and what it does to a mouth area aesthetic as fuarkk brahhh 🔱🔱 vs. flat/semi concave & long philtrum oldcel trait my condolences for the philtrumcels reading this, over unless gandy or kater tier harmony

looksmax.org

Could go higher on bizygo and bizygomatic width

Ideal chin width?

Would go slightly higher on chin height too but it's not a big deal sticking at where you're at, I liked the slightly more masculine fuller lower thirds

Really curious to see what that 106 jaw frontal agree degree thing you quoted is

 

[avenox]

Mandibular Plane Angle

View attachment 4054612 View attachment 4054616

Animation Range: 0º to 45º Below Horizon

Ideal Pitch: 12.5º Degrees Below Horizon

Spoiler: Examples of Good Mandibular Plane Angles

View attachment 4054663View attachment 4054628View attachment 4054627

Spoiler: Subhuman Examples

View attachment 4054632View attachment 4054633View attachment 4054636View attachment 4054637

---

Orbitomaxillary Plane Angle

View attachment 4054618 View attachment 4054620

Animation Range: 2.5º Inward to 30º Outward

Ideal Yaw: 25º Outward

Spoiler: Examples of Good Orbitomaxillary Plane Angles

View attachment 4054653View attachment 4054654View attachment 4054655

Spoiler: Subhuman Examples

View attachment 4054658View attachment 4054659

---

Temporal Plane Angle

View attachment 4054621 View attachment 4054622

Animation Range: 0º to 30º

Ideal Yaw: 10º

Spoiler: Examples of Good Temporal Plane Angles

View attachment 4054651View attachment 4054649View attachment 4054652

Spoiler: Subhuman Examples

View attachment 4054642View attachment 4054643View attachment 4054645View attachment 4054646

Is there any way to reduce temporal plane angle?

 

[iblameice]

didnt work
View attachment 4054675

why does ts happen it's annoying as fuck

 

[Lookologist003]

much of a fucking tard do you have to be to make fun of someone for asking a question?

Not much of one apparently.

I'm subhuman, I know I'm a loser because of it. I come to Looksmax to learn what it is that makes somebody subhuman or sculpted in the image of God. Threads like these are the big claim of the website. It's hard to know how to improve our looks when we haven't discovered concretely those things that make us Chad or subhuman. So, yea, that guy needs to return to Offtopic. Any intelligent discussion is valued in the furthering of looks theory.

---

what application did you use to pixel scale/measure here?

GIMP. Although, because it is one image and not two images that measurement is attained by, it's possible to use Window's photo viewer and a ruler to get the measurements which have no dimensions. If you do use a ruler against your computer monitor to measure, make sure that your monitor is not curved and that you do not zoom into the image between taking one of the measurements and the other.
...Probably easier to use GIMP. If you're doing any morphing I know you have it or Photoshop on your computer.

Fantastic post, will test it out soon, what application did you use to pixel scale/measure here?

Never seen anything on the "biporon" before, got a diagram/depiction on it?

And Yes I'd love a similar method for orbitomaxillary angles and other other ratios/angles you're fond it

By biporon, really I just mean the widest point of the cranial vault in frontal profile. I was only using that word because @mandiblade had influenced me in threads prior to this one. I should have made my post clearer.

 

[futureashtray]

But he's intelligent enough to make it stick and bring it all together? Isn't that's what this is all about? Aesthetics is just conscious observations and verbalizing beauty, identifying patterns, what looks good to relative degrees always was, he's just shedding further light on it

yeah I guess so man.

whatever, I just think it’s a waste of time. cuz you can automatically tell when someone is “attractive” “chad” etc

sometimes man I just let my eyes talk and let it be,

also i hate the “yeah that’s the ideal ____ man” I care more about the “yeah to get ___ you need to ___ bro, because ____ and ___ make it ideal and ____ is the only way to ____”

and ratios and whatnot are very generalized so I just don’t believe in them

 

[VampyrMaxx]

Not striking enough

IPD higher

Stuff like lip, philtrum and forehead height I'd need some references to go off, proportions>sheer size, you should have a big skull so it's hard to solely go off stuff like this

Biporon is Eurion width right?

By vertex you mean top of the cranium right?
View attachment 4158292

Need to verify on ear height but medium size is ideal
View attachment 4158342View attachment 4158346

Jaw frontal angle 106 degrees?! Post an example/depiction

Nah, far greater PFL moggers than Salih, African Orbit size>>> 40+ mm on way higher ipd/ocd/icd to harmonize is ideal with ideal angles/contours of course but if you can't get perfect go for normie averageness and get striking traits in the eye area elsewhere, if it all comes together it's higher human aesthetics altogether tho
View attachment 4158393

Philtrum height 15mm is too long imo for peak aesthetics, 10-13 mogs>>>

most people do not have a short philtrum

reserved for terrachads observe the short (10-13mm), fully concave philtrum and what it does to a mouth area aesthetic as fuarkk brahhh 🔱🔱 vs. flat/semi concave & long philtrum oldcel trait my condolences for the philtrumcels reading this, over unless gandy or kater tier harmony

looksmax.org

Could go higher on bizygo and bizygomatic width

Ideal chin width?

Would go slightly higher on chin height too but it's not a big deal sticking at where you're at, I liked the slightly more masculine fuller lower thirds

Really curious to see what that 106 jaw frontal agree degree thing you quoted is

Contrary to what this forum thinks, striking features are not good to have.

IPD higher? Slight hypertelorism can be aesthetic, but 65mm IPD will always mog aesthetic hypertelorism.

By biporon I meant skull width, myb. Vertex is the top, correct

Super high PFL doesn't really matter as much as other things like 0 scleral show, prominent infraorbital, canthal tilt and low set brows imo. But it can definitely increase appeal, I see what you mean.

10mm philtrum? You will need african lips to compensate. If you have a 10mm philtrum with thinner caucasian lips you will look retarded.

Short philtrum big lips

Longer philtrum full lips

Short philtrum without the whole mouth area compensating doesn't mog

Higher bizygomatic width is not aesthetic honestly. Maybe slightly higher but not super high. For example this bizygomatic width is 15.3cm. It not as aesthetic as bzw closer to 14.3 cm.

15.3cm bzw; wide skull

sleeker cranium

Sleek cranium mogs

I got the JFA from this photo. This angle is kind of stupid because getting a perfect front profile photo is almost impossible. As long as the ramus is long and the chin is good, then I wouldn't worry about the angle itself.