The Cure For Hair Loss - The Truth About 5α-Reductase Inhibitors and Topical Anti-Androgens

[ThisCat]

Im not reading all of this can someone explain the drama?

 

[imightbewrong42]

just what i need, you saved my life

 

[Snicket]

That's literally what I mean. You did not do any research, just copied what you saw when you asked Chat GPT and called it a day. There is enough proof that topical dutasteride works, you just didn't dig deep enough:

Microneedling plus topical dutasteride solution for androgenetic alopecia: a randomized placebo-controlled study - PubMed

Microneedling plus topical dutasteride solution for androgenetic alopecia: a randomized placebo-controlled study

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

This is irrelevant. You're taking Dutasteride once a week and the drug has a half life of 4-5 weeks so you're getting systemic absorption anyway.

you also don't need RU58841 if you are on oral dut or fin you retard

They have separate mechanisms of action. One is a 5AR inhibitor the other is a topical anti andorgen that binds with androgen receptors. It's not a question of either or. They work better together.

Also, there is no clinical relevant data on RU58841, it's pure anecdotal, there are no public studies on this stuff, just because you saw Derek recommends it doesn't make it backed by science JFL

There is clinical data on manque monkeys - they have AGA just like humans.
RU58841 at a 5% concentration was found to be more effective than finasteride, leading to a 103% increase in hair growth compared to finasteride's 88%.
I can't link it now because it was taken down annoyingly but I will post when I find it.

I agree that having no human trial data is a sleight against the treatment though.

 

[imightbewrong42]

Recommending a non fda approved medicine is dangerous

you mean not approved by jews? of course it won't

 

[Snicket]

Yeah i already talked about it

If you are thinking about roiding read this thread.

Huh, when did i say this? Are you AGAIN making things up? On god you said this, you know it too. You are buying overpriced online pharmacy isotretinoin STFU. You brain is destroyed by all that steriods, i am not running rad140 > Claims steroids are the key to ascension > Claims they...

looksmax.org

Ru is garbage, dutasteride is 100x much more effective

It's not garbage, there is some compelling that it has even better efficacy than finasteride.
But the whole framing of one vs the other is wrong here.

Recommending a non fda approved medicine is dangerous

I agree that it's troubling we don't have any real long term data on human usage.
The implications of systemic absorption of a topical anti androgen in the long term are troubling.

 

[Graham]

However, Type 1 DHT is actually expressed in bones. This matters because the studies I have shown above, are actually only deficient in the type 2 isoenzyme, which is the one that is not present in bones. This is the reason they present with normal bone mineral density, bone structure etc. If they were also deficient in Type 1 DHT, this would likely not be the case at all.

"5α-Reductase type 1 inactivated male mice have reduced bone mass and forelimb muscle grip strength, which has been proposed to be due to lack of 5α-reductase type 1 expression in bone and muscle.[29] In 5 alpha reductase type 2 deficient males, the type 1 isoenzyme is thought to be responsible for their virilization at puberty.[6]"

This study concluded dutasteride (and finasteride) had no effect on bone health, so hopefully it won't have a negative effect on humans.

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1186/s12891-018-2076-9.pdf

 

[CopeTilliRope]

again this forum being a complete joke when it comes to hairloss don't listen to a bunch of 17 years old who never really experimented it you need solution that you will be able to stick with for a lifetime commitment namely dut/ fin and topical min ( oral if you're lucky enougt to handle the sides) and call it a day if you don't have a crazy agressive hairloss.

and advising to use RU long time is such a joke and absolute crazyness. in 2019 i went to le havre north of france to see dr guenole who was part of the prostrakan study ( RU former name) to talk to her about why the trial and ru didn't come to fruition and she told me we shouldn't even touch ru powder with our bare hand and that the suspicion of it being close to nilutamide chemical composition would lead to probable lung fibrosis with long term usage ( hence the report of chest / breathing pain with those susceptible to it ) . so enjoy dying of lung or heart fibrosing in some unbearable pain after 10 years of usage .

one day i will make some real post on this forum on how to stop hairloss and grow lashes/ brows as it's highly needed and everyworking solution come with sides we can't win that's it

 

[sigmamogger]

I don't understand shit going on in the replies what y'all talking about

 

[Snicket]

in 2019 i went to le havre north of france to see dr guenole who was part of the prostrakan study ( RU former name) to talk to her about why the trial and ru didn't come to fruition and she told me we shouldn't even touch ru powder with our bare hand and that the suspicion of it being close to nilutamide chemical composition would lead to probable lung fibrosis with long term usage ( hence the report of chest / breathing pain with those susceptible to it ) . so enjoy dying of lung or heart fibrosing in some unbearable pain after 10 years of usage .

Tell us about this. Interesting
Of course a woman shouldn’t just powdered anti androgen, especially if pregnant!

 

[CopeTilliRope]

Tell us about this. Interesting
Of course a woman shouldn’t just powdered anti androgen, especially if pregnant!

you're missing the point this woman is a derm who was part of the clinical trial for ru in france and working with roussel labs . ru isn't a simple nonsteroidal antiandrogen with the classic nonlife threatening sides we knows but there is risk of cardiac/ lung fibrosis but as usual it's pushed by bunched of autist on forums who will use it a year then quit.

just pop your fin pill as a nw1 if you're lucky enough to have non agressive hairloss and enjoy your life and if not follow spain derms guideline and if that's still not enough you're cooked

right now i'm trialing with transdermal mesotherapy with bicalutamide and min + oral dut as topical are just non feasible long term and a hassle long term but i think that's the solution for those with agressive loss

 

[Snicket]

you're missing the point this woman is a derm who was part of the clinical trial for ru in france and working with roussel labs . ru isn't a simple nonsteroidal antiandrogen with the classic nonlife threatening sides we knows but there is risk of cardiac/ lung fibrosis but as usual it's pushed by bunched of autist on forums who will use it a year then quit.

just pop your fin pill as a nw1 if you're lucky enough to have non agressive hairloss and enjoy your life and if not follow spain derms guideline and if that's still not enough you're cooked

right now i'm trialing with transdermal mesotherapy with bicaluatamide and min + oral dut as topical are just non feasible long term and a hassle long term but i think that's the solution for those with agressive loss

I just wanted you to elaborate on the story.
Bicaltuamide is an anti androgen, right?
Thoughts on any other topical anti androgens?

 

[CopeTilliRope]

I just wanted you to elaborate on the story.
Bicaltuamide is an anti androgen, right?

yes the thing is that i have a very agressive hairloss for which oral dut isn't enough but for 90% of male population i don't understand why you just don't take fin or dut and enjoy life as it will be enough and start pouring research chemical instead of using a simple convenient pill. RU should be used by absolute desperate guys that are not willing to transition to keep their hair and willing to die within 5 years as an ultimate last resort as it works for sure.

bicalutamide is also a non steroidal antiandrogen that is used orally for those transitionning it has a long half life and can be used topically at the right dosage once per week and is also used in willpowers serum for cis men , it's a safer alternative to ru as it also target scalp T without the heart or lung concerns . the thing is to find your sweet spot as it will go systemic for sure and can lead to the usual antiandrogenetIc sides.

i get some vial from my doctor in spain and meso it with a pistor elliance as i hate topicals

 

[Snicket]

yes the thing is that i have a very agressive hairloss for which oral dut isn't enough but for 90% of male population i don't understand why you just don't take fin or dut and enjoy life as it will be enough and start pouring research chemical instead of using a simple convenient pill. RU should be used by absolute desperate guys that are not willing to transition to keep their hair and willing to die within 5 years as an ultimate last resort as it works for sure.

bicalutamide is also a non steroidal antiandrogen that is used orally for those transitionning it has a long half life and can be used topically at the right dosage once per week and is also used in willpowers serum for cis men , it's a safer alternative to ru as it also target scalp T without the heart or lung concerns . the thing is to find your sweet spot as it will go systemic for sure and can lead to the usual antiandrogenetIc sides.

i get some vial from my doctor in spain and meso it with a pistor elliance as i hate topicals

How aggressive is your loss?

 

[CopeTilliRope]

I just wanted you to elaborate on the story.
Bicaltuamide is an anti androgen, right?
Thoughts on any other topical anti androgens?

high dose RU are the best thing when it comes to topical antiandrogen , fluridil is shit , cb i steroidal and shit , pyrilutamide is garbage also so nothing works excepted minoxidil ru and dutasteride basically or other strong antiandrogen used for transitionning

 

[CopeTilliRope]

How aggressive is your loss?

started as a norwood 0.5 and dut didn't maitain my hairline i'm close to a nw2.5 now at 32 years old but the only thing working are high dose of topical min or tranny drugs .

 

[Snicket]

started as a norwood 0.5 and dut didn't maitain my hairline i'm close to a nw2.5 now at 32 years old but the only thing working are high dose of topical min or tranny drugs .

When did you start treatment and what are your thoughts on oral minoxidil?

 

[Snicket]

started as a norwood 0.5 and dut didn't maitain my hairline i'm close to a nw2.5 now at 32 years old but the only thing working are high dose of topical min or tranny drugs .

NW2.5 at 32 isn’t even that bad. Why not just get a transplant to fill in the temples?

 

[Jonasㅤㅤ⠀]

This study concluded dutasteride (and finasteride) had no effect on bone health, so hopefully it won't have a negative effect on humans.

https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/10.1186/s12891-018-2076-9.pdf

"One possible explanation for this discordance is that dutasteride mediated inhibition of osteoblast 5-alpha reductase activity is compensated for by higher levels of intracellular testosterone, which undergoes subsequent aromatization to estradiol"

This means high E2 > DHT, speaking of bone density.

So I wouldn't worry about Dut causing bone density loss tbh, just by looking at this study.

you need solution that you will be able to stick with for a lifetime commitment namely dut/ fin and topical min

> Easy solution for life time commitment
> Talks about topical min
> Shits on RU (also topical)

Sometimes atleast..

prostrakan study ( RU former name)

RU58841's other names are 3841 or HMR-3841, nothing else.

to talk to her about why the trial and ru didn't come to fruition and she told me we shouldn't even touch ru powder with our bare hand and that the suspicion of it being close to nilutamide chemical composition would lead to probable lung fibrosis with long term usage ( hence the report of chest / breathing pain with those susceptible to it ) . so enjoy dying of lung or heart fibrosing in some unbearable pain after 10 years of usage.

Since you are comparing it to Nilutamide without explaining what it is I'll do it for you.

RU58841 and Nilutamide are both structurally similar and both antiandrogens, Nilutamide is pretty selective.

Also who says RU58841 will go in large amounts systemic?

RU58841 was used in two good studies.

The values for the linear hair growth rates (LHGR) were significantly (P < 0.04) higher in the RU58841-treated group.

A controlled study of the effects of RU58841, a non-steroidal antiandrogen, on human hair production by balding scalp grafts maintained on testosterone-conditioned nude mice - PubMed

Human hair growth can be monitored for several months after the transplantation of scalp samples from men with androgen-dependent alopecia on to female nude mice. Hair production from balding sites has been shown to be inhibited in testosterone-conditioned nude mice. We used this recently...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In conclusion, because of its activation in the skin to a potent antiandrogen and the low systemic availability, RUM offers the chance for topical antiandrogen treatment of acne and androgenetic alopecia. Because of their targeting effect, SLN-based preparations should further be developed with respect to control unwanted effects.

https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/govi/pharmaz/2005/00000060/00000001/art00002#

it's pushed by bunched of autist on forums who will use it a year then quit.

It's also a great option to use RU58841 in combination with a 5ARI, most individuals don't need to use it for the rest of their life, it can simply be used to achieve regrowth.

In most cases a 5ARI alone is enough, RU58841 is just a nice add-on.

Also during a steroid cycle it acts as a good prevention to hair loss.

just pop your fin pill as a nw1 if you're lucky enough to have non agressive hairloss and enjoy your life and if not follow spain derms guideline and if that's still not enough you're cooked

right now i'm trialing with transdermal mesotherapy with bicalutamide and min + oral dut as topical are just non feasible long term and a hassle long term but i think that's the solution for those with agressive loss

Huh? So you still use an topical antiandrogen?

it's a safer alternative to ru as it also target scalp T without the heart or lung concerns . the thing is to find your sweet spot as it will go systemic for sure and can lead to the usual antiandrogenetIc sides.

How do you know that it's safer than RU? RU also targets scalp T dumbass, do you think it just blocks DHT or what?

i get some vial from my doctor in spain and meso it with a pistor elliance as i hate topicals

Oh you are injecting the antiandrogen, good luck with your transition bro!

Bud really recommends the use of a 3k applicator

@chadisbeingmade @Zagro @truthhurts

 

[Snicket]

"One possible explanation for this discordance is that dutasteride mediated inhibition of osteoblast 5-alpha reductase activity is compensated for by higher levels of intracellular testosterone, which undergoes subsequent aromatization to estradiol"

This means high E2 > DHT, speaking of bone density.

So I wouldn't worry about Dut causing bone density loss tbh, just by looking at this study.

> Easy solution for life time commitment
> Talks about topical min
> Shits on RU (also topical)

Sometimes atleast..
View attachment 3690323

RU58841's other names are 3841 or HMR-3841, nothing else.

Since you are comparing it to Nilutamide without explaining what it is I'll do it for you.

RU58841 and Nilutamide are both structurally similar and both antiandrogens, Nilutamide is pretty selective.

Also who says RU58841 will go in large amounts systemic?

RU58841 was used in two good studies.

The values for the linear hair growth rates (LHGR) were significantly (P < 0.04) higher in the RU58841-treated group.

A controlled study of the effects of RU58841, a non-steroidal antiandrogen, on human hair production by balding scalp grafts maintained on testosterone-conditioned nude mice - PubMed

Human hair growth can be monitored for several months after the transplantation of scalp samples from men with androgen-dependent alopecia on to female nude mice. Hair production from balding sites has been shown to be inhibited in testosterone-conditioned nude mice. We used this recently...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In conclusion, because of its activation in the skin to a potent antiandrogen and the low systemic availability, RUM offers the chance for topical antiandrogen treatment of acne and androgenetic alopecia. Because of their targeting effect, SLN-based preparations should further be developed with respect to control unwanted effects.

https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/govi/pharmaz/2005/00000060/00000001/art00002#

It's also a great option to use RU58841 in combination with a 5ARI, most individuals don't need to use it for the rest of their life, it can simply be used to achieve regrowth.

In most cases a 5ARI alone is enough, RU58841 is just a nice add-on.

Also during a steroid cycle it acts as a good prevention to hair loss.

Huh? So you still use an topical antiandrogen?

How do you know that it's safer than RU? RU also targets scalp T dumbass, do you think it just blocks DHT or what?

Oh you are injecting the antiandrogen, good luck with your transition bro!

Bud really recommends the use of a 3k applicator
View attachment 3690363

@chadisbeingmade @Zagro @truthhurts

He claims to have spoken to one of the people who headed the trials in France back in the 90s.

Who claimed there’s long term risk of lung fibrosis

 

[Jonasㅤㅤ⠀]

He claims to have spoken to one of the people who headed the trials in France back in the 90s

I've read that part, I don't think it's of any relevance as different corporations that tested the compound came to different results.

If you are cautious with applying the RU, use a moderate dosage and a good vehicle you won't have any systemic side effects like in the study I cited.

Here two more studies about the topic.

From this result, topical application of RU58841, which is considered to be a potential therapy for skin diseases, may induce systemic side effects. However, RU58841, on topical application, revealed a potent increase in density, thickening, and length of hair in the macaque model of androgenetic alopecia, whereas no systemic effects were detected.

50:50 I guess.

Evaluation of RU58841 as an anti-androgen in prostate PC3 cells and a topical anti-alopecia agent in the bald scalp of stumptailed macaques - PubMed

The effect of androgen receptor transcriptional activation by RU58841, a nonsteroidal anti-androgen, was studied in the human prostate cancer PC3 cell line by cotransfection with wild-type androgen receptor (wt AR) and an androgen-responsive reporter (MMTV-ARE-CAT) construct. Anti-and rogens...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

No side effects were noted, though no real conclusion except that the treatment was effective even while on testosterone.

A controlled study of the effects of RU58841, a non-steroidal antiandrogen, on human hair production by balding scalp grafts maintained on testosterone-conditioned nude mice - PubMed

Human hair growth can be monitored for several months after the transplantation of scalp samples from men with androgen-dependent alopecia on to female nude mice. Hair production from balding sites has been shown to be inhibited in testosterone-conditioned nude mice. We used this recently...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Snicket]

I've read that part, I don't think it's of any relevance as different corporations that tested the compound came to different results.

If you are cautious with applying the RU, use a moderate dosage and a good vehicle you won't have any systemic side effects like in the study I cited.

Here two more studies about the topic.

From this result, topical application of RU58841, which is considered to be a potential therapy for skin diseases, may induce systemic side effects. However, RU58841, on topical application, revealed a potent increase in density, thickening, and length of hair in the macaque model of androgenetic alopecia, whereas no systemic effects were detected.

50:50 I guess.

Evaluation of RU58841 as an anti-androgen in prostate PC3 cells and a topical anti-alopecia agent in the bald scalp of stumptailed macaques - PubMed

The effect of androgen receptor transcriptional activation by RU58841, a nonsteroidal anti-androgen, was studied in the human prostate cancer PC3 cell line by cotransfection with wild-type androgen receptor (wt AR) and an androgen-responsive reporter (MMTV-ARE-CAT) construct. Anti-and rogens...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

No side effects were noted, though no real conclusion except that the treatment was effective even while on testosterone.

A controlled study of the effects of RU58841, a non-steroidal antiandrogen, on human hair production by balding scalp grafts maintained on testosterone-conditioned nude mice - PubMed

Human hair growth can be monitored for several months after the transplantation of scalp samples from men with androgen-dependent alopecia on to female nude mice. Hair production from balding sites has been shown to be inhibited in testosterone-conditioned nude mice. We used this recently...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I’m going to use it.
I just wanted to hear out what he had to say.

 

[Snicket]

I've read that part, I don't think it's of any relevance as different corporations that tested the compound came to different results.

If you are cautious with applying the RU, use a moderate dosage and a good vehicle you won't have any systemic side effects like in the study I cited.

Here two more studies about the topic.

From this result, topical application of RU58841, which is considered to be a potential therapy for skin diseases, may induce systemic side effects. However, RU58841, on topical application, revealed a potent increase in density, thickening, and length of hair in the macaque model of androgenetic alopecia, whereas no systemic effects were detected.

50:50 I guess.

Evaluation of RU58841 as an anti-androgen in prostate PC3 cells and a topical anti-alopecia agent in the bald scalp of stumptailed macaques - PubMed

The effect of androgen receptor transcriptional activation by RU58841, a nonsteroidal anti-androgen, was studied in the human prostate cancer PC3 cell line by cotransfection with wild-type androgen receptor (wt AR) and an androgen-responsive reporter (MMTV-ARE-CAT) construct. Anti-and rogens...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

No side effects were noted, though no real conclusion except that the treatment was effective even while on testosterone.

A controlled study of the effects of RU58841, a non-steroidal antiandrogen, on human hair production by balding scalp grafts maintained on testosterone-conditioned nude mice - PubMed

Human hair growth can be monitored for several months after the transplantation of scalp samples from men with androgen-dependent alopecia on to female nude mice. Hair production from balding sites has been shown to be inhibited in testosterone-conditioned nude mice. We used this recently...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I knew about this study and technically it doesn’t repudiate his claims about long term lung fibrosis.

I think it’s somewhat contradictory that he discourages it but applies another topical anti androgen but I’m happy to engage with the guy and understand where he’s coming from.

 

[CopeTilliRope]

"One possible explanation for this discordance is that dutasteride mediated inhibition of osteoblast 5-alpha reductase activity is compensated for by higher levels of intracellular testosterone, which undergoes subsequent aromatization to estradiol"

This means high E2 > DHT, speaking of bone density.

So I wouldn't worry about Dut causing bone density loss tbh, just by looking at this study.

> Easy solution for life time commitment
> Talks about topical min
> Shits on RU (also topical)

Sometimes atleast..
View attachment 3690323

RU58841's other names are 3841 or HMR-3841, nothing else.

Since you are comparing it to Nilutamide without explaining what it is I'll do it for you.

RU58841 and Nilutamide are both structurally similar and both antiandrogens, Nilutamide is pretty selective.

Also who says RU58841 will go in large amounts systemic?

RU58841 was used in two good studies.

The values for the linear hair growth rates (LHGR) were significantly (P < 0.04) higher in the RU58841-treated group.

A controlled study of the effects of RU58841, a non-steroidal antiandrogen, on human hair production by balding scalp grafts maintained on testosterone-conditioned nude mice - PubMed

Human hair growth can be monitored for several months after the transplantation of scalp samples from men with androgen-dependent alopecia on to female nude mice. Hair production from balding sites has been shown to be inhibited in testosterone-conditioned nude mice. We used this recently...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

In conclusion, because of its activation in the skin to a potent antiandrogen and the low systemic availability, RUM offers the chance for topical antiandrogen treatment of acne and androgenetic alopecia. Because of their targeting effect, SLN-based preparations should further be developed with respect to control unwanted effects.

https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/govi/pharmaz/2005/00000060/00000001/art00002#

It's also a great option to use RU58841 in combination with a 5ARI, most individuals don't need to use it for the rest of their life, it can simply be used to achieve regrowth.

In most cases a 5ARI alone is enough, RU58841 is just a nice add-on.

Also during a steroid cycle it acts as a good prevention to hair loss.

Huh? So you still use an topical antiandrogen?

How do you know that it's safer than RU? RU also targets scalp T dumbass, do you think it just blocks DHT or what?

Oh you are injecting the antiandrogen, good luck with your transition bro!

Bud really recommends the use of a 3k applicator
View attachment 3690363

@chadisbeingmade @Zagro @truthhurts

you're probably a kid who started balding a year ago so i'm gonna be nice first i never said RU wasn't targeting other androgen you misinterpreting my words of course it's usefull to target scalp T AND I'm even saying it's the best antiandrogen we got and i'm saying it fucking works just it's unsafe but up to you if you want to get REAL sides that will mess you up for life ( i was also reckless in my late 20's and used it )

second of all you clearly didn't reseach enough or just omitting on purpose to not look foolish as i'm quoting you " RU58841's other names are 3841 or HMR-3841, nothing else."

to correct you RU original name is PSK3841 not simply 3841 , psk is the diminutive of guess what you retard " PROSTRAKAN" . and btw i live litteraly 20 minutes away from where the trial took place in france and i went to see dr guenole who were part of it and another derm who litteraly ran the monkey trial from belgium when i was really set into using ru for myself back in 2018/2019 but whatever i been in this hairloss game since 2010 and my conclusion is that you need something you can use safely long term as hair are not worth your health


and for the mesotherapy with bicalutamide again you're not well versed enough i'm doing it under the supervizion of dr vano galvan who did it in hundred of guys it barely goes systemic and you can get a cheaper mesogun just i happen to get a medical grade one and i'm not advising anyone to do it it's just what i'm doing for myself alongside dut meso on top of oral.

guys just pop fin and be happy that's what i would do if i could

and the fact you said you can just use ru temporaly to get regrowth is laughable you think that you will be able to keep the regrowth with standard anti 5ar drug or what ? hairloss doesn't work like that

and how do i know it's safer than ru because it's litterly used orally by thousand of ppl without them dying of lung fibrosis unlike ru we got actual data on it used fucking orally and not black and white studies on monkey from the early 2000 but if you want to be a guinea pig and fund your own ru studies on yourself just do it .

 

[Jonasㅤㅤ⠀]

I knew about this study and technically it doesn’t repudiate his claims about long term lung fibrosis.

I think it’s somewhat contradictory that he discourages it but applies another topical anti androgen but I’m happy to engage with the guy and understand where he’s coming from.

Yeah I saw that you mentioned the study earlier.

I don't see how RU48841 would cause lung fibrosis, I could rather imagine heart-related side effects.

Exactly, applying another anti androgen is a bit contradictory.

you're probably a kid who started balding a year ago so i'm gonna be nice first i never said RU wasn't targeting other androgen you misinterpreting my words of course it's usefull to target scalp T AND I'm even saying it's the best antiandrogen we got and i'm saying it fucking works just it's unsafe but up to you if you want to get REAL sides that will mess you up for life ( i was also reckless in my 20's and used it )

Funny way to start a reply.

second of all you clearly didn't reseach enough or just omitting on purpose to not look foolish as i'm quoting you " RU58841's other names are 3841 or HMR-3841, nothing else."

to correct you RU original name is PSK3841 not simply 3841 , psk is the diminutive of gues what you retard " PROSTRAKAN" . and btw i live litteraly 20 minutes away from where the trial took place in france and i went to see dr guenole who were part of it and another derm who litteraly ran the monkey trial from belgium but whatever i been in this hairloss game since 2010 and my conclusion is that you need something you can use safely long term as hair are not worth your health

If you lived near the trial or not doesn't contribute anything, this discussion is about the treatments effectiveness and safety.

and for the mesotherapy with bicalutamide again you're not well versed enough i'm doing it under the supervizion of dr vano galvan who did it in hundred of guys it barely goes systemic and you can get a cheaper mesogun just i happen to get a medical grade one and i'm not advising anyone to do it it's just what i'm doing for myself alongside dut meso on top of oral.

guys just pop fin and be happy that's what i would do if i could

and the fact you said you can just use ru temporaly to get regrowth is laughable you think that you will be able to keep the regrowth with standard anti 5ar drug or what ? hairloss doesn't work like that

I didn't say anything else, most people just need to run a 5ARI and that's it.

And yes, RU58841 can be ran temporarily. Hair loss is an AR-mediated pathway, since we are applying another factor that reduces androgenecity in the scalp beside the 5ARI even further results will be speeded up and can be maintained afterwards.

Also RU58841 acts like a guard when running a steroid cycle.

and how do i know it's safer than ru because it's litterly used orally by thousand of ppl without them dying of lung fibrosis unlike ru we got actual data on it used fucking orally and not black and white studies on monkey from the early 2000 but if you want to be a guinea pig and fund your own ru studies on yourself just do it .

Now you are comparing the oral treatment with the topical treatment, still no source that RU58841 goes systemic to a significant amount.

 

[Snicket]

you're probably a kid who started balding a year ago so i'm gonna be nice first i never said RU wasn't targeting other androgen you misinterpreting my words of course it's usefull to target scalp T AND I'm even saying it's the best antiandrogen we got and i'm saying it fucking works just it's unsafe but up to you if you want to get REAL sides that will mess you up for life ( i was also reckless in my late 20's and used it )

second of all you clearly didn't reseach enough or just omitting on purpose to not look foolish as i'm quoting you " RU58841's other names are 3841 or HMR-3841, nothing else."

to correct you RU original name is PSK3841 not simply 3841 , psk is the diminutive of guess what you retard " PROSTRAKAN" . and btw i live litteraly 20 minutes away from where the trial took place in france and i went to see dr guenole who were part of it and another derm who litteraly ran the monkey trial from belgium when i was really set into using ru for myself back in 2018/2019 but whatever i been in this hairloss game since 2010 and my conclusion is that you need something you can use safely long term as hair are not worth your health


and for the mesotherapy with bicalutamide again you're not well versed enough i'm doing it under the supervizion of dr vano galvan who did it in hundred of guys it barely goes systemic and you can get a cheaper mesogun just i happen to get a medical grade one and i'm not advising anyone to do it it's just what i'm doing for myself alongside dut meso on top of oral.

guys just pop fin and be happy that's what i would do if i could

and the fact you said you can just use ru temporaly to get regrowth is laughable you think that you will be able to keep the regrowth with standard anti 5ar drug or what ? hairloss doesn't work like that

and how do i know it's safer than ru because it's litterly used orally by thousand of ppl without them dying of lung fibrosis unlike ru we got actual data on it used fucking orally and not black and white studies on monkey from the early 2000 but if you want to be a guinea pig and fund your own ru studies on yourself just do it .

The allure of a topical anti androgen is a very strong one for hair loss sufferers.

The lack of long term data on humans is annoying.

What’s your current protocol and why can’t you just transplant from NW 2.5?

 

[CopeTilliRope]

Yeah I saw that you mentioned the study earlier.

I don't see how RU48841 would cause lung fibrosis, I could rather imagine heart-related side effects.

Exactly, applying another anti androgen is a bit contradictory.

Funny way to start a reply.

If you lived near the trial or not doesn't contribute anything, this discussion is about the treatments effectiveness and safety.

I didn't say anything else, most people just need to run a 5ARI and that's it.

And yes, RU58841 can be ran temporarily. Hair loss is an AR-mediated pathway, since we are applying another factor that reduces androgenecity in the scalp beside the 5ARI even further results will be speeded up and can be maintained afterwards.

Also RU58841 acts like a guard when running a steroid cycle.

Now you are comparing the oral treatment with the topical treatment, still no source that RU58841 goes systemic to a significant amount.

you were the one trying to get smart about ru name man not me when you were clearly wrong but whatever we both agree on the fact fin or dut are enough for 90% of hairloss sufferer i'm just trying to warn people about RU potential sides .

and again i'm just saying topical bicalutamide is safer than RU for sure and a powerfull antiandrogen without RU life threathening sides and could be a decent alternative for those who want to get on a strong potent antiandrogen that target T instead of trying RU .

and you're saying we don't know know if ru goes systemic at all but even if there is 0,000001% systemic absorption of RU in the bloodstream that could lead to the tiniest amount of fibrosis overtime that something i personnaly wouldn't want to experiment as i dealt with cardiac sides from high dose oral min that lasted and trust me the last thing i was worried about was my hair when i wasn't able to even breath properly.

 

[CopeTilliRope]

The allure of a topical anti androgen is a very strong one for hair loss sufferers.

There lack of long term data on humans is annoying.

What’s your current protocol and why can’t you just transplant from NW 2.5?

right now oral dut + bica meso + meso dut + meso min and some other useles stuff

and tbh most hairtransplant looks like shit that's why i don't do it rn but considering it in the future for sure

 

[Snicket]

right now oral dut + bica meso + meso dut + meso min and some other useles stuff

and tbh most hairtransplant looks like shit that's why i don't do it rn but considering it in the future for sure

Why meso + oral dut.
Are there any additive benefits to oral at that point?

Do you have vertex thinning?

 

[CopeTilliRope]

Why meso + oral dut.
Are there any additive benefits to oral at that point?

Do you have vertex thinning?

oral is way stronger than meso i meso it on top of it for extra help as it's part of a standard protocol but my case is very agressive

that's what they do in spain mostly for agressive hairloss on top of oral min 5mg

 

[Snicket]

oral is way stronger than meso i meso it on top of it for extra help as it's part of a standard protocol but my case is very agressive

that's what they do in spain mostly for agressive hairloss on top of oral min 5mgView attachment 3690533

Thoughts on oral min? I know it was originally used as heart medication to treat hypertension.
You mentioned issues.

 

[CopeTilliRope]

Thoughts on oral min? I know it was originally as heart medication to treat hypertension.
You mentioned issues.

just my personal feedback on it in my case i used it ranging from 0.625 to 5mg ( stayed on 5mg for a year ) .

in my case it was not as powerfull even at 5mg as a simple topical min but i'm a great responder to topical . and for a lot of guys actually topical min is better for holding up the hairline. in terms of sides oral min gave me zero bloating of the face just huges pores and an overall aged skin but less than what topical is giving me .

and i had a constant feeling of chest pressure EVEN on the tiniest amount of oral min , actually even when i stopped it lasted for like 3 weeks then i was back to 100% normal but it was a very scary sensation not to be able to breath properly.

i was doing it for the lashes and brows gains , oral min gave me great lashes and barely no brows gains but unfortunnately the lashes gains disappearead after 2 weeks.

but if you tolerate it without cardiac sides i think it's a great med and very convenient

 

[Snicket]

just my personal feedback on it in my case i used it ranging from 0.625 to 5mg ( stayed on 5mg for a year ) .

in my case it was not as powerfull even at 5mg as a simple topical min but i'm a great responder to topical . and for a lot of guys actually topical min is better for holding up the hairline. in terms of sides oral min gave me zero bloating of the face just huges pores and an overall aged skin but less than what topical is giving me .

and i had a constant feeling of chest pressure EVEN on the tiniest amount of oral min , actually even when i stopped it lasted for like 3 weeks then i was back to 100% normal but it was a very scary sensation not to be able to breath properly.

i was doing it for the lashes and brows gains , oral min gave me great lashes and barely no brows gains but unfortunnately the lashes gains disappearead after 2 weeks.

but if you tolerate it without cardiac sides i think it's a great med and very convenient

Thanks for your input.
You've got a lot of shit on here for criticising RU but what's the point of this forum if we can't discuss and engage on the points - and respectfully disagree afterwards.

 

[gabbeascend]

Im not reading all of this can someone explain the drama?

Just take fin bro

 

[ThisCat]

Just take fin bro

Im not balding

 

[gabbeascend]

Im not balding

Yeah but thats the main point is of this thread. Apparently it doesnt negatively impact bone growth and is safe if your 18+

 

[ThisCat]

Yeah but thats the main point is of this thread. Apparently it doesnt negatively impact bone growth and is safe if your 18+

I was talking about the drama between the people under this post

 

[gabbeascend]

I was talking about the drama between the people under this post

Haha jfl

 

[mattmaial]

read every word, op what do you think about dutasteride mesotherapy @chadisbeingmade

 

[Leopold_]

everyone-- though I agree that DHT is much less important after puberty, please remember that DHT is CRITICAL during puberty. It's not necessarily for raw bone mass, but DHT is the main driver of male secondary sexual characteristics, basically what makes you look masculine. Jaw, cheekbones, brow ridge, even deeper voice... it's all DHT. So DO NOT suppress it before puberty.


about the study that was referenced:

The 5AR-deficient cases in the study support this. These guys typically have less masculinized facial features, underdeveloped genitalia, and very little body hair—unless they receive DHT or DHT analog treatment. You can instantly see that guy with DHT on the right has a way more masculine face, while the one on the left has a subhuman baby face.

The patients in these studies usually show a consistent pattern:
- Normal height
- Normal bone density
- Micropenis
- Minimal facial/body hair
- Reduced facial dimorphism
- Higher-pitched voices


@chadisbeingmade @Jonas2k7

 

[Jonasㅤㅤ⠀]

everyone-- though I agree that DHT is much less important after puberty, please remember that DHT is CRITICAL during puberty.

No shit.

It's not necessarily for raw bone mass, but DHT is the main driver of male secondary sexual characteristics

Male secondary sexual characteristics. You were just a google search away from debunking all your own bullshit claims.

"For males, secondary characteristics include facial and chest hair, increased body hair, pelvic build (lack of rounded hips), upper body muscular build, and the ability to generate muscle mass at a faster rate than the female. "

Take the muscle mass and pelvic build aspect away and you basically have what DHT does to your body.

Secondary Sex Characteristic - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

basically what makes you look masculine. Jaw, cheekbones, brow ridge, even deeper voice... it's all DHT.

Testosterone mediates these changes, not DHT. The enzyme that converts T into DHT is not in bone tissue in the first place, you just describe what is part of your mental masturbation like most users here do.

"Jaw, cheekbones, browridge", only these? You really think you can spot-grow bones on your face? No.

So DO NOT suppress it before puberty.

Where the fuck did this thread even mention to block DHT during puberty or BEFORE puberty?

about the study that was referenced:

The 5AR-deficient cases in the study support this. These guys typically have less masculinized facial features, underdeveloped genitalia, and very little body hair—unless they receive DHT or DHT analog treatment. You can instantly see that guy with DHT on the right has a way more masculine face, while the one on the left has a subhuman baby face.

Less masculinized face refers to facial hair. Also exogenous DHT obviously is better than endogenous DHT what the fuck is your point. Endogenous DHT is cucked by the fact that it isn't in most tissues in the first place meanwhile exo. DHT can access all types of tissues.

@chadisbeingmade

 

[Leopold_]

No shit.

Male secondary sexual characteristics. You were just a google search away from debunking all your own bullshit claims.

"For males, secondary characteristics include facial and chest hair, increased body hair, pelvic build (lack of rounded hips), upper body muscular build, and the ability to generate muscle mass at a faster rate than the female. "

Take the muscle mass and pelvic build aspect away and you basically have what DHT does to your body.

Secondary Sex Characteristic - an overview | ScienceDirect Topics

www.sciencedirect.com

Testosterone mediates these changes, not DHT. The enzyme that converts T into DHT is not in bone tissue in the first place, you just describe what is part of your mental masturbation like most users here do.

"Jaw, cheekbones, browridge", only these? You really think you can spot-grow bones on your face? No.

Where the fuck did this thread even mention to block DHT during puberty or BEFORE puberty?

Less masculinized face refers to facial hair. Also exogenous DHT obviously is better than endogenous DHT what the fuck is your point. Endogenous DHT is cucked by the fact that it isn't in most tissues in the first place meanwhile exo. DHT can access all types of tissues.

@chadisbeingmade

good response, I agree.

 

[cbx47]

Srsly asking, finasteride everyday +25mg Viagra when I have sex just in case I need it, is it ok?

 

[chadisbeingmade]

Srsly asking, finasteride everyday +25mg Viagra when I have sex just in case I need it, is it ok?

Perfectly fine

 

[RapeAllFemales]

Srsly asking, finasteride everyday +25mg Viagra when I have sex just in case I need it, is it ok?

Take minox and do scalp massages dont take toxic shit you will regret when you turn intro a women

 

[RapeAllFemales]

Igf-1 and gh optimization should be your priority if you want to keep your hair

 

[chadisbeingmade]

Take minox and do scalp massages dont take toxic shit you will regret when you turn intro a women

Taking minox doesn’t stop you from losing hair retard. Give it 2 years and your Minoxidil gains will go to shit because you did not fix the root cause and take a 5ARi.

You in 2 years:

Igf-1 and gh optimization should be your priority if you want to keep your hair

Not a molecule.

 

[RapeAllFemales]

Taking minox doesn’t stop you from losing hair retard. Give it 2 years and your Minoxidil gains will go to shit because you did not fix the root cause and take a 5ARi.

You in 2 years:

View attachment 3693251


Not a molecule.

Water basic knowledge dnrd nigga

 

[Avirochad]

so low IQ. DHT is essential for many aspects of pubertal and post-pubertal development including penis. You probably created multiple lifelong dickcels with this post. any male intentionally reducing his DHT systemically before like 25 is permanently reducing his dimorphism.

 

[Avirochad]

how about try something that doesn't tank your masculinity for life, like red light therapy, or microneedling + minoxidil.

 

[Sceriff06]

how about try something that doesn't tank your masculinity for life, like red light therapy, or microneedling + minoxidil.

Natural anti DHT such as serenoa or pumpkin seeds.