The Realitypill: easier said than done.

menas · Apr 23, 2025

The Realitypill
easier said than done.

You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction
Requirements
Sugeries
PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs)
Pros
Cons
Overall Reality Level (main part)
TL;DR

Introduction:

Jfl at all these normies spamming "just hardmaxx bro" like we're all trust fund babies with unlimited cash and free time.
The REAL blackpill nobody wants to admit? Surgery is just another form of brutal genetic determinism.

Chad gets his jaw fixed on daddy's dime while the rest of us are supposed to somehow save 100k on minimum wage.

I made this guide cuz I'm tired of seeing greycels getting fed fantasy bullshit. If ur sub5, surgery might bump you +1 PSL MAX

, and that's IF you can survive the recovery without roping and IF the surgeon doesn't botch it (and they often do).

Most of you guys don't have rich parents, supportive gfs/family, or jobs that let you vanish for months.

The surgerymaxx meme completely ignores that 99% of us don't have the genetics, money or social support to even start this journey.

Requirements:

Lurk moar if you think surgerymaxxing is something you can just jump into.
Here's the brutal truth about what you ACTUALLY need before you even think about getting on the surgery train:

Financial Requirements:
100k+ in savings or rich parents who don't ask questions
Insurance that won't immediately drop you when they find out
Stable job that won't fire you for disappearing 3+ months
Another 20-30k set aside for when complications inevitably happen

Physical Requirements:
Actually decent baseline frame (can't fix narrow shoulders with surgery)
Good overall health (surgeons won't touch you if you're high risk)No autoimmune issues (kiss healing goodbye if you have these)
Good skin elasticity (or you'll look like melted plastic after)
Age 21-35 (too young = still developing, too old = healing takes forever)

Mental Requirements:
Ability to lie to everyone about your disappearance
Pain tolerance beyond what normies can comprehend
Acceptance that results are a dice roll (you could end up WORSE)
Understanding that one surgery almost always leads to more
Realistic expectations (surgery won't make foids suddenly want you)

Social Requirements:
Someone to drive your helpless ass to/from appointments
Someone to care for you when you can't even wipe your own ass
Ability to isolate for months without raising suspicion
New social circle after (people WILL notice something's different)
Let's be real brocel - if you're reading this and don't meet at least 80% of these, you're coping hard thinking surgery is your ticket out.
Most greys can barely afford ramen while wagecucking, let alone six-figure medical procedures.
The biggest realitypill: most of you reading this will never have this procedure done. Accept it and focus on what you can actually change.

Surgeries:

Before we dive into the brutal details of each procedure, let's get some facts straight about cosmetic surgery overall.
This isn't your Instagram looksmaxing fantasy - this is the reality about what "surgerymaxxing" actually means.

The Reality About Cosmetic Surgery
Most greys think surgery is some magical transformation button. Just pay money, endure some pain, and come out looking like a different person. The reality? Surgerymaxxing is a high-risk, high-cost endeavor that most guys who recommend it have never actually experienced.
First off, surgeons aren't miracle workers. They're working with YOUR genetics, YOUR healing capacity, and YOUR bone structure. If you're expecting to go from a 4/10 to an 8/10, you're already setting yourself up for disappointment. Real talk: most successful surgical results give you +1-2 PSL MAX, and that's IF everything goes perfectly (which it rarely does).
Second, these procedures were developed for people with actual deformities and medical issues - not for looksmaxers trying to ascend. Your surgeon doesn't care about your PSL rating or how many Tinder matches you want. They care about not getting sued and making money.
Third, the recovery process is BRUTAL. We're not talking about a few days of discomfort - we're talking weeks or months of pain, swelling, numbness, and isolation. You'll look worse before you look better, and that "worse" phase lasts way longer than most guys realize.
Fourth, the costs are astronomical. We're talking house down payment levels of cash, and insurance won't touch most of this stuff unless you can prove severe medical necessity. Most surgerymaxx fantasizers don't even have a couple grand in savings, let alone $50k+ for a proper procedure and recovery.
What This Guide Is & Isn't
This guide isn't here to give you false hope or convince you that surgery is your ticket to ascension. It's here to give you the reality check that the "just surgerymaxx bro" crowd won't tell you.
For each procedure, I'm breaking down:

What the surgery actually involves (not the fantasy version)

Realistic costs (including hidden costs most clinics won't tell you about)

Actual pros (when the procedure makes sense)

Brutal cons (what the before/after posts never show)

Reality level (the harsh truth most greys won't admit)

If you're still reading and thinking "I can handle it," then let's get into the specific procedures. Just remember: for every surgerymaxx success story you see online, there are dozens of botched results, disappointed patients, and guys who went broke chasing a Chad face they were never genetically destined to have.

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):

A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.

Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):

A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.

Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon

Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons

Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants

Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
Improves orbital rim projection
Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
Extreme swelling that lasts months
Potential for horrible scarring
Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

looksmax.org

1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

looksmax.org

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

looksmax.org

Lefort 1,2 & 3:

A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country

Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement

Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)

Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof

Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
Potential for sinus issues for life
If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

looksmax.org

Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)

A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.

Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country

Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea

Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
Eating through a syringe for weeks
Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:

A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package

Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone

Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning

Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds

Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications
Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):

Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):

The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month

UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month

Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional

Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage
Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery
Reduces body fat when diet is in check
Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users
Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed
Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed
Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure
Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)
Legal issues in most countries without prescription
Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):

A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work

Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month

Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)

Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)

Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician
Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T
More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids
Medical supervision reduces health risks
May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone
Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal
Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms
Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off
Natural testosterone production shuts down completely
Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)
Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)
Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):

A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)

Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)

Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production
Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users
Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused
Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results
Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed
Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance
Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)
Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits
Daily injections required indefinitely
High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features
These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):

A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.

Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month

Proviron: $30-70/month

Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)

Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance
Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects
Reduced water retention compared to other compounds
Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle
Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye
Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)
Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds
Most require injectable testosterone base anyway
Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):

Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)
Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol
Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects
Fast-acting results visible within weeks
Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket
Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively
Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles
Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash
Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost
Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

looksmax.org

Trenbolone (Tren):

One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month

Additional Test base: $20-60/month

Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds
Extreme hardening effect on physique
Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)
Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase
Results visible much faster than most other compounds

Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons
Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"
Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares
Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression
Respiratory issues ("tren cough")
Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido
and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Reality of PEDs and Genetics:
The harsh truth about PEDs and "looksmax" that nobody wants to hear is that genetics dictate 70-80% of your results. Here's the comprehensive reality:

Genetic Response Varies Dramatically - Two guys taking identical cycles will get wildly different results.
Some will transform on minimal doses while others can blast massive amounts and barely change.

Androgenic Sensitivity Is Genetic Lottery - Your body's sensitivity to androgens is predetermined by:

Androgen receptor density (varies by tissue)

Receptor sensitivity and binding affinity

5-alpha reductase activity (DHT conversion rate)

Free vs. bound testosterone ratios

Genetic expression of secondary metabolic pathways

Bone Structure Is Largely Fixed After Puberty-

Despite what you see on tiktok, once your growth plates are fused (usually by 18-21), no amount of testosterone, HGH, or DHT derivatives will significantly alter your skeletal structure. The "face gains" people claim are primarily from:

Reduced facial water/fat

Increased muscle tone

Temporary glycogen loading

Confirmation bias and placebo effect

The Timing Window Is Everything - The only people who get genuine bone structure changes are those who use during their growth phase. Even then, results are unpredictable and potentially disfiguring.

The Genetic Multiplier Effect - PEDs amplify what you already have. If you have a weak chin genetically, testosterone won't give you a square jaw. If you have good facial structure genes, PEDs might enhance them slightly.

Risk/Reward Reality - The guys with the most dramatic transformations are outliers with exceptional genetics. They would have looked good naturally too. Average and below-average responders risk permanent health damage for minimal aesthetic improvement.

The Real Formula:

70% genetics (bone structure, fat distribution, muscle insertions)

20% body composition (diet, training, body fat percentage)

10% drug effects (primarily water manipulation and facial muscle tone)

The Rich Guy's Game - Real pharmaceutical HGH at doses that might affect your face costs thousands monthly for years,

with risks of permanent disfigurement through acromegaly.

The realitypill: Most guys would get better facial aesthetics from lowering body fat, fixing posture, addressing sleep and breathing issues, and potentially considering strategic cosmetic procedures rather than playing Russian roulette with hormones for minimal and often temporary "gains."

The Overall Reality:

Jfl at all these tiktokcels coming here expecting magical transformations and instant ascension. After reading through all these surgeries and roids, you're probably wondering which hardmaxx is gonna finally turn you from incel to slayer. Let me drop the realitypill that everyone's coping to not admit.
Your base genetics determine everything, That's the brutal truth most guys don't want to face. The reason those "ascension" posts seem so incredible is because those dudes were already HTN or had god-tier foundations to work with. Their bone structure was solid, their androgen receptor sensitivity was already top-tier, and they just needed minor tweaks.
For most average greys, surgery might give you +1 PSL if everything goes perfectly. For actual truecels? Even +0.5 is a challenge. This isn't some doomer shit - it's just acknowledging reality. Surgeons can enhance what's there, but they can't rebuild you from scratch. That's why surgerymaxxing favors those who need it least.
Same shit with PEDs. How come some guy can run a basic test cycle and look like a Greek god while you've blasted tren and still look like shit? Genetics again. Your androgen receptor density, your T conversion rates, your muscle insertion points - all predetermined before you were born. The guys "ascending" from ROIDS already had the bone structure; the hormones just dried them out and exposed what was already there.
And let's talk money, because that's the realitypill within the realitypill. True transformation costs house-level money. We're talking $50k minimum for any serious surgical work, and that's assuming no complications or revisions. HGH "bonemass/height gains"? That's rich kid territory - $1000+ monthly for YEARS.
Most greys here are counting pennies for KFC while dreaming of procedures that cost more than they'll make in a year. The class divide is the ultimate blackpill that nobody discusses. Chad gets daddy's money for jaw surgery at 18; you're stuck wageslaving and praying you can afford a consultation by 30.
The hardest truth? Recovery is hell. Absolute, pure suffering. Months of swelling, bruising, numbness, pain, and looking like a monster. Most greys don't have the mental fortitude, the support system, or the job security to disappear for 3-6 months while their face heals. You think your boss is gonna hold your job while you recover from OBO? You think your roommates are gonna help you eat through a syringe for weeks after bimax?
The ones who actually undergo these procedures and succeed are outliers with money, support systems, and ideal recovery genetics. Most surgerymaxxing fantasies are exactly that - fantasies.
This isn't to say don't improve. But realitymaxx first. If you're a poorcel with average genetics, focus on the basics: cut to 12% bodyfat, That'll ascend you more than obsessing over orbital rims and jawline angles.
For the select few with money, time, support, and a legitimate need - sure, surgery can help. But be realistic about what it can achieve. Most ascensions you see online are cherry-picked best results, often with perfect lighting, fillers on top of surgery, and ideal healing genetics.
At the end of the day, even after all the surgerymaxxing and roidmaxxing in the world, you're still operating within your genetic potential. The sooner you accept this and work within your limitations, the sooner you can stop chasing fantasies and make actual progress.
Harsh? Maybe. But that's the reality.

TL;DR:

you still need to have a good genetic base to even hardmaxx and obviously either a good job that won't fire you for dissappearing for 3+ months JFL

or you need to have rich parents that will allow you to spend 100k on surgeries also you will need friends or family members that will take care of you in the process and also you need to be ready for your social and daily life getting fucked up for atleast a month.

even if manage to get all of these things it still isn't %100 that you'll ascend
you still need decent genetics especially for roids and stuff for roids you will need good genetics for androgen sensitivity and more

so basically:the reality is harsh and you can't escape it stop fucking coping by saying shit like "just get surgery BRO!" you are fucking disgusting and you don't even have a single idea how reality works.

but still... doing something is better than nothing my point here
is dont cope about shit you won't do also.

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.

menas · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

looksmax.org

1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

looksmax.org

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

looksmax.org

Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

looksmax.org

Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640

A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month

Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month

Dianabol: $30-60/month

Winstrol: $40-80/month

Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

looksmax.org

Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

@Alexanderr @TechnoBoss @Gengar @Quncho @Ron.Belgrade BOTB worthy?

Cats · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

looksmax.org

1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

looksmax.org

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

looksmax.org

Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

looksmax.org

Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640

A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month

Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month

Dianabol: $30-60/month

Winstrol: $40-80/month

Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

looksmax.org

Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

Mirin High IQ High Effort Thread Tho

Gengar · Apr 23, 2025

Mirin high effort thread, I want to sticky this.

PeakIncels · Apr 23, 2025

good thread, love the rainbow

trench · Apr 23, 2025

Crowsmagnon · Apr 23, 2025

bro really wants to be put in botb (mirin)

menas · Apr 23, 2025

@sigmamogger @whitebitchslayer @Volksstaffel @Greypiller @NumbThePain

menas · Apr 23, 2025

Crowsmagnon said:
bro really wants to be put in botb (mirin)

i already have a botb thread i wanted the 2nd one

Daddy's Home · Apr 23, 2025

Here before BOTB

loyolaxavvierretard · Apr 23, 2025

This nigga is hellbent on getting a checkmark. W
Couldnt get verified so now will get it through high IQ shit

Crowsmagnon · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
i already have a botb thread i wanted the 2nd one

whats the title?

playxiing · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

looksmax.org

1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

looksmax.org

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

looksmax.org

Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

looksmax.org

Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640

A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month

Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month

Dianabol: $30-60/month

Winstrol: $40-80/month

Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

looksmax.org

Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

GOOD THREAD ,BOTB WORTHY !!!

Iblamehyo · Apr 23, 2025

Mirin W thread

menas · Apr 23, 2025

Crowsmagnon said:
whats the title?

Frauding: Fake It Until You Make It

FRAUDING: FAKE IT TILL YOU MAKE IT first of all we know that skin is their biggest insecurity for many people and it is understandable so: 1) Acne/Acne scars: acne and acne scars can be pain in the ass especially if you are obsessed with your looks, but dw there are ways to fraud them...

looksmax.org

btw tagging some niggas
@Jason Voorhees @Gaygymmaxx @R@m@ @staton @Vermilioncore

mrnut · Apr 23, 2025

here b4 BOTB
fucking mirin

Zagro · Apr 23, 2025

Damnn fuckin detailed thread bhai nice job

staton · Apr 23, 2025

mirin the high effort brah, DNR tho

shia.jihadist · Apr 23, 2025

high iq BOTB level thread, give this nigga contributor @Gengar

ShowerCelling · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

looksmax.org

1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

looksmax.org

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

looksmax.org

Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

looksmax.org

Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

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Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

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CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

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PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640

A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month

Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month

Dianabol: $30-60/month

Winstrol: $40-80/month

Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

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Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

Bl0odKn1ght · Apr 23, 2025

Repped and bumped

mrnut · Apr 23, 2025

implants?

Greypiller · Apr 23, 2025

@Master @NumbThePain @Alexanderr put this in botb

flippasav · Apr 23, 2025

Actions speak louder than words

chadhamed · Apr 23, 2025

i dont like working out cus it hurts ahhh

ShowerCelling · Apr 23, 2025

nigga forgot implants and eye surgeries

ShowerCelling · Apr 23, 2025

someone should make a unfixable failos/good base thread or smth

menas · Apr 23, 2025

ShowerCelling said:
nigga forgot implants and eye surgeries

i didn't include them i was talking about the popular risky surgeries

ShowerCelling said:
someone should make a unfixable failos/good base thread or smth

there is one in botb

flatcheck213 · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
most successful surgical results give you +1-2 PSL MAX, and that's IF everything goes perfectly (which it rarely does).

1-2 psl is enough is you are already average-above average

flatcheck213 · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
i didn't include them i was talking about the popular risky surgeries

ive barely seen any good result from those high risky surgeries on normies, but seen great ones with eyelid surgeries, rhino and so on

ShowerCelling · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
i didn't include them i was talking about the popular risky surgeries

there is one in botb

the only unfixable failo i think i might have is pfl

ShowerCelling · Apr 23, 2025

anyways good thread, repping it now

flatcheck213 · Apr 23, 2025

@menas pm me please

menas · Apr 23, 2025

flatcheck213 said:
1-2 psl is enough is you are already average-above average

well, that is the point.

flatcheck213 said:
ive barely seen any good result from those high risky surgeries on normies, but seen great ones with eyelid surgeries, rhino and so on

yeah since they are harder to botch.

ShowerCelling said:
the only unfixable failo i think i might have is pfl

OBO maybe?

flatcheck213 · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
yeah since they are harder to botch.

Not just that, I’ve seen many botches from those small surgeries. It’s just easier to manipulate harmony, rather than get bunch of implant and end up like that Brazilian kid

xnj · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

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1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

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Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

looksmax.org

Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

looksmax.org

Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month

Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month

Dianabol: $30-60/month

Winstrol: $40-80/month

Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

looksmax.org

Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.

botb rn

p.s. mirin gradients

ShowerCelling · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
well, that is the point.

yeah since they are harder to botch.

OBO maybe?

i heard tripod osteotomy can make your pfl bigger, but i dont see how you would make the eyeball wider tbh

realshit · Apr 23, 2025

mirin the thread

Jason Voorhees · Apr 23, 2025

. Haven't read the full thread but from the few few paragraphs. Great format, engaging and concise writing, well researched information and good use of pics to keep it interesting. BOTB indeed

menas · Apr 23, 2025

Jason Voorhees said:
. Haven't read the full thread but from the few few paragraphs. Great format, engaging and concise writing, well researched information and good use of pics to keep it interesting. BOTB indeed

bhai can you post blonde porn on offtopic plz

Jason Voorhees said:
. Haven't read the full thread but from the few few paragraphs. Great format, engaging and concise writing, well researched information and good use of pics to keep it interesting. BOTB indeed

@NumbThePain please forgive me mami i love you

menas · Apr 23, 2025

@Orc @SecularIslamist @The Homelander @Kaari @They_are_all_whores

thoughts on the thread?

Orc · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
@Orc @SecularIslamist @The Homelander @Kaari @They_are_all_whores

thoughts on the thread?

trt prices are off, it's like 3 bucks a month if you diy, like 3.50 if you include needles.

menas · Apr 23, 2025

Orc said:
trt prices are off, it's like 3 bucks a month if you diy, like 3.50 if you include needles.

jfl i didn't really know about it so i researched it... could you edit it for me bhai?

Zagro · Apr 23, 2025

Orc said:
trt prices are off, it's like 3 bucks a month if you diy, like 3.50 if you include needles.

Like raw powder test and shit?

copercel123 · Apr 23, 2025

I

menas said:
The Realitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.

take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105

@superpsycho my truecel brotha

Table Of Contents:

Introduction:

Requirements:

Surgeries:

LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.
View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.

Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.

Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.

If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.

You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.

Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.

Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.

It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.

If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.

Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.

Reality Level:

You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.

Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World

Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons

thec4llective.com

thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.

Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery

You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...

looksmax.org

OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315 View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeon
Often requires international travel to find qualified surgeons
Additional $10k-20k for planning and custom implants
Hidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes

Improves orbital rim projection

Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly

One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)

Extreme swelling that lasts months

Potential for horrible scarring

Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons

Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function

Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery

Reality Level:

This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.

I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA

Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...

looksmax.org

1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)

On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...

looksmax.org

Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...

looksmax.org

Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and country
Lefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancement
Lefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)
Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proof
Hidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)

Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces

Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake

Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Risk of asymmetry is extremely high

Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)

Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"

Potential for sinus issues for life

If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look

Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"

Reality Level:

Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.

Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world

On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...

looksmax.org

Le Fort III Osteotomy

Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...

looksmax.org

Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and country
Health insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apnea
Hidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws

Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw

Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems

Results are permanent (unless you get botched)

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag

Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients

Eating through a syringe for weeks

Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months

If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever

Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor

Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time

Reality Level:

If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

Failed bimax by Italian surgeon

Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...

looksmax.org

CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery package
Usually combined with other procedures, rarely done alone
Most surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planning
Hidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision funds
View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile

Changes the entire lower third angle of your face

Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants

Creates more masculine angles in facial structure

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely complex, high risk of complications

Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive

Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"

Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth

Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before

Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position

Reality Level:

If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.

Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA

Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.

looksmax.org

PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547 View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.

Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/month
UGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/month
Ancillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additional
Hidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

The most researched PED with decades of medical usage

Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery

Reduces body fat when diet is in check

Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users

Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed

Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed

Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure

Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)

Legal issues in most countries without prescription

Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage

Reality Level:

Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):
View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood work
Online TRT clinic: $100-200/month
Insurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)
Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)
Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Legal when prescribed by a physician

Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T

More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids

Medical supervision reduces health risks

May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone

Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal

Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms

Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off

Natural testosterone production shuts down completely

Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)

Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)

Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects

Reality Level:

Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.

The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.

The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.

Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)
Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)
Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Improved skin quality and collagen production

Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users

Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused

Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely expensive for real results

Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed

Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance

Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)

Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits

Daily injections required indefinitely

High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features

These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic

Reality Level:

The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.

The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.

Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.

The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.

The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.

Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...

looksmax.org

Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)

Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...

looksmax.org

DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
View attachment 3658646 Price:

Masteron: $50-120/month
Proviron: $30-70/month
Primobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)
Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplements

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Muscle hardening and dry appearance

Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects

Reduced water retention compared to other compounds

Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle

Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye

Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)

Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds

Most require injectable testosterone base anyway

Often faked due to their popularity and price

Reality Level:

DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.

Exposing DHT

Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...

looksmax.org

[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)

Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...

looksmax.org

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):
View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).

View attachment 3658646 Price:

Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Convenience of oral administration (no injections)

Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol

Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects

Fast-acting results visible within weeks

Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket

Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively

Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles

Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash

Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost

Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)

Reality Level:

Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.

The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar

Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...

looksmax.org

Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.

View attachment 3658646 Price:

UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/month
Additional Test base: $20-60/month
Hidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids

View attachment 3658646 Pros:

Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds

Extreme hardening effect on physique

Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)

Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase

Results visible much faster than most other compounds

View attachment 3658646 Cons:

Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons

Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"

Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares

Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression

Respiratory issues ("tren cough")

Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido

and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.

Reality Level:

If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.

The Reality of PEDs:

The Overall Reality:

TL;DR:

shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.

Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.

btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.

smell a BOTB here

Orc · Apr 23, 2025

Zagro said:
Like raw powder test and shit?

nah a 10 ml bottle of 250 mg/ml test is like 25 euros, you only use about 0.5 ml per week for trt which is 125mg, 20 / 25 is 80 cents so 4x that for the entire month is like three euros.

Orc · Apr 23, 2025

menas said:
jfl i didn't really know about it so i researched it... could you edit it for me bhai?

most of your prices are way off, too lazy to fix them all, roids are way cheaper than you think.

menas · Apr 23, 2025

Orc said:
most of your prices are way off, too lazy to fix them all, roids are way cheaper than you think.

damn... over but atleast we have inflation so it will become normal after like 5 months

Foreverbrad · Apr 23, 2025

It’s what you’d expect from a forum full of teenagers.
I’m fully cognizant that I’m spending my house deposit on Trimax and of what steroid use is doing to my long term health. It just is what it is. The other reality pill is:

Unless you make a drastic change you will be living the same shit, incel life until you die and you will be forever tortured by regret.

menas · Apr 23, 2025

Foreverbrad said:
It’s what you’d expect from a forum full of teenagers.
I’m fully cognizant that I’m spending my house deposit on Trimax and of what steroid use is doing to my long term health. It just is what it is. The other reality pill is:

Unless you make a drastic change you will be living the same shit, incel life until you die and you will be forever tortured by regret.

look at the end of the tl;dr part i literally said the same thing..
doing something is always better than doing nothing.

The Realitypill: easier said than done.

menas

𝕯𝖝𝕯 𝖈𝖗𝖊𝖜 𝕸𝖆𝖘𝖙𝖊𝖗

The Reality About Cosmetic Surgery​

What This Guide Is & Isn't​

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):​

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):​

The Reality of PEDs and Genetics:​

menas

𝕯𝖝𝕯 𝖈𝖗𝖊𝖜 𝕸𝖆𝖘𝖙𝖊𝖗

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):​

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):​

Cats

𝕯𝖝𝕯 𝖈𝖗𝖊𝖜 "𝕯𝖔 𝖎𝖙, 𝖔𝖗 𝕯𝖔𝖓'𝖙"

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):​

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):​

Gengar

sub-administrator

PeakIncels

i just don't see the point - 13,9 bmi

trench

‎?

Crowsmagnon

Veritas

menas

𝕯𝖝𝕯 𝖈𝖗𝖊𝖜 𝕸𝖆𝖘𝖙𝖊𝖗

menas

𝕯𝖝𝕯 𝖈𝖗𝖊𝖜 𝕸𝖆𝖘𝖙𝖊𝖗

Daddy's Home

I Witness The Most Obscure Corners Of The Internet

loyolaxavvierretard

𝕯𝖝𝕯 𝖈𝖗𝖊𝖜 . Alonso

Crowsmagnon

Veritas

playxiing

Banned

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):​

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):​

Iblamehyo

Inquisitor

menas

𝕯𝖝𝕯 𝖈𝖗𝖊𝖜 𝕸𝖆𝖘𝖙𝖊𝖗

mrnut

𝕯𝖝𝕯 𝖈𝖗𝖊𝖜

Zagro

𝕯𝖝𝕯 𝖈𝖗𝖊𝖜 𝕸𝖔𝖉𝖊𝖗𝖆𝖙𝖔𝖗 - 🇳🇱🇹🇷

staton

𝔇𝔵𝔇 𝔠𝔯𝔢𝔴 𝔬𝔭𝔭 𝔬𝔟𝔩𝔦𝔱𝔢𝔯𝔞𝔱𝔬𝔯

shia.jihadist

Hezbollah Executioner

ShowerCelling

💢

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):​

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):​

Bl0odKn1ght

𝓒𝓾𝓻𝓻𝓮𝓷𝓽𝓵𝔂 𝓐𝓼𝓬𝓮𝓷𝓭𝓲𝓷𝓰 𝕯𝖝𝕯

mrnut

𝕯𝖝𝕯 𝖈𝖗𝖊𝖜

Greypiller

Subhuman Aspie

flippasav

𝕯𝖝𝕯 𝖈𝖗𝖊𝖜 • Charisma

chadhamed

golden brown

ShowerCelling

💢

ShowerCelling

The Reality About Cosmetic Surgery

What This Guide Is & Isn't

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):

The Reality of PEDs and Genetics:

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):

TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):

Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):