The truth about steroids and peptides affecting bones/height

 
cheekbonesforlife said:
how doe your skin look better on roids wth? Do you get fillers/botox or smth?
Click to expand...
i fixed my skin through autism skincare learned from being a user on here actually. retin-a carried my skin throughout teenage acne bullshit and honestly its been cured since then.
 
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ZyzzReincarnate said:
i fixed my skin through autism skincare learned from being a user on here actually. retin-a carried my skin throughout teenage acne bullshit and honestly its been cured since then.
Click to expand...
curious what was ur before/after bidelt (from roids)?
 
jeoyw9192 said:
curious what was ur before/after bidelt (from roids)?
Click to expand...
uhh i always had a good bideltoid. idk what it was pre-lifting but during the sarm era it was like 22 or 23, now mine is like 25.
 
ZyzzReincarnate said:
i fixed my skin through autism skincare learned from being a user on here actually. retin-a carried my skin throughout teenage acne bullshit and honestly its been cured since then.
Click to expand...
what product do you recomend?
 
SlayerJonas said:
Acromegaly is induced by an excess of GH obviously. Applying that concept onto lower dosages doesn't work in reality, however.
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so it changes bones just not the aesthetically pleasing way?

“it changes bones but it looks shit” and “it doesn’t change anything “ are two different things

btw not hating i’m just doing my research rn and curious about others opinion om this
 
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tit said:
F

Fuck man, I was writing a response and it got deleted, I will summarise now I guess



So true, I looked like a bloated monkey on roids and for nothing, since I lost pretty much all my gains due to being hospitalised

In terms of growth from peptides and roids, I am pretty certain I noticed some abnormal growth in the centre of my brow ridge when on mk-677 for a long period. I think I may have induced mild acrogmegaly and it really didn't look great, looked abnormal and like I was angry all the time but this seems to be less noticeable now. To be clear not saying the mk caused it but it seems like. I have pics of my brow region if you want in dm's it certainly changed but not for the best.
Click to expand...
can u send me
 
goatis literally proved that raw milk contains igf-1 and that it can grow bones
 
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arifon said:
so it changes bones just not the aesthetically pleasing way?

“it changes bones but it looks shit” and “it doesn’t change anything “ are two different things

btw not hating i’m just doing my research rn and curious about others opinion om this
Click to expand...
Acromegaly results from chronically elevated, non-pulsatile, and extreme supraphysiologic secretion. You‘d literally need to inject 50-60IU+ daily to achieve anything close to that.

Also, high systemic IGF-1 downregulates local IGF-1 production and GH receptor sensitivity, as a feedback brake.
But that shift actually pushes growth toward organs more sensitive to GH itself like heart, liver, kidneys asf, basically increasing the risk of organ hypertrophy even as muscle and bone growth plateaus.
Upregulation of some-IGF binding proteins like IGFB-1 is also common, reducing its bioactivity- a natural protection against excessive cell proliferation.
 
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SlayerJonas said:
View attachment 3987086
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This is finally the answer.

People who are highly sensitive to androgens may benefit from anabolics however if you aren't highly sensitive- taking anabolics wont do shit for you in terms of bone mass gain.

Finally something that make sense thankyou :aheago:
 
SlayerJonas said:
Just because a bone thickens marginally (referring to periosteal apposition) doesn't mean it's going to significantly increase in size where it could be aesthetically significant. Which is also very unrealistic considering all bones in your body would grow in size if that'd happen.
Click to expand...
Okay I agree with you mostly on this thread, don't get me wrong but THAT is what happens. All the bones in your body DO grow in size. I have seen many many anecdotals and examples of people who's hands, clavicles, face, all grew. Obviously you can't visibly view your inter anatomy and view changes in bone growth. But obviously they would slightly grow too. So you are right for the most case but from what I've seen its certainly possible depending on the persons genes, age, and androgen sensitivity.

@idkwhattoputhere tagged u so u could see my reply to OP
 
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william. said:
goatis literally proved that raw milk contains igf-1 and that it can grow bones
Click to expand...
1760024272396
 
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harmonytingfam said:
Okay I agree with you mostly on this thread, don't get me wrong but THAT is what happens. All the bones in your body DO grow in size. I have seen many many anecdotals and examples of people who's hands, clavicles, face, all grew. Obviously you can't visibly view your inter anatomy and view changes in bone growth. But obviously they would slightly grow too. So you are right for the most case but from what I've seen its certainly possible depending on the persons genes, age, and androgen sensitivity.

@idkwhattoputhere tagged u so u could see my reply to OP
Click to expand...
I think he’s saying that it won’t like widen ur skull because that would be disproportionate
 
So even at 14, it’s already over. holy ropefuel 😂✌️
 
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harmonytingfam said:
Okay I agree with you mostly on this thread, don't get me wrong but THAT is what happens. All the bones in your body DO grow in size. I have seen many many anecdotals and examples of people who's hands, clavicles, face, all grew. Obviously you can't visibly view your inter anatomy and view changes in bone growth. But obviously they would slightly grow too. So you are right for the most case but from what I've seen its certainly possible depending on the persons genes, age, and androgen sensitivity.

@idkwhattoputhere tagged u so u could see my reply to OP
Click to expand...

harmonytingfam said:
Okay I agree with you mostly on this thread, don't get me wrong but THAT is what happens. All the bones in your body DO grow in size. I have seen many many anecdotals and examples of people who's hands, clavicles, face, all grew. Obviously you can't visibly view your inter anatomy and view changes in bone growth. But obviously they would slightly grow too. So you are right for the most case but from what I've seen its certainly possible depending on the persons genes, age, and androgen sensitivity.

@idkwhattoputhere tagged u so u could see my reply to OP
Click to expand...
IMG 0522
IMG 0521
ignore the bloat, chin projection gains happened in only 12 days on 6 iu gh (mom found it and destroyed every vial 2 weeks in)
edit:
proof it’s not jutting
IMG 0523
 
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xombie said:
2 weeks hgh aint doing shit
Click to expand...
i genuinely have no other explanation though, my infras also look better from the side now. it’s weird, and i don’t know how or why, but i have a theory. osteoid deposition is very fast, and responds very quickly to spikes in igf-1. osteoid is the collagen matrix layered before calcification of the bone, so i think it had enough time to lay some collagen and it has been slowly calcifying since. also, IGF-1 can stay bound to bone for weeks at a time, so whatever i had when i stopped has been continuing the signal (stopped around 3 weeks ago)
 
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SlayerJonas said:
There are multiple flaws in the logic behind peptides and AAS remodelling and/or growing facial bones.

I covered some of these flaws in this thread already, consider this the complete overview.

To be specific, this isn't an anti-roiding thread. Roiding should be done if desiring a body halo provided you know what you are doing. This excludes 99% of people already.

JFL at normies. They cause problems everywhere and die because of anything. The prevalence of gore is enough proof of that. Just think of all the normies that have died because of supplements even if it sounds absurd. Expecting them to mess around with their hormones is just asking for the impossible.

To put it into perspective, stupid people do illogical things because they can't reason in a logical manner. They choose to harm their health to look "cool", cope in any way possible, can't think across a corner, we can keep going for eternity...
​

If done correctly, roiding can be useful for achieving a glorious body halo and even the mental drive is a nice feature. The latter is only secondary though and the real trade-off is the body halo in exchange for time, effort, money, health and sometimes the enjoyability of life.

The first three are self-explanatory, the negative impact on health can be reduced with tons of ancillaries but never fully avoided, the last point being another real problem. Having to bulk and being bloated on-cycle is a harsh reality, most get treated like subhumans by society, it's delayed gratification. This isn't a reason against roiding, it's to make people aware. If you decide to roid up, you'll feel like shit momentarily and that's okay. Roiding during your teenage years (provided almost consequent bulking) could rob you of many experiences including teenage love. Only proceed with roiding if you are mindful of your actions and their consequences.

The thesis that androgens and peptides grow facial bones is based on wishful thinking and utterly devoid of any evidence. We'll dissect each point within this thread.
​

1. There isn't a single molecule of evidence.

Besides theoretical concepts, there is no scientific evidence backing anything up. Not even anecdotal evidence, only cherrypicked angles in B/As feeding into delusions. Pointing fingers at influencers, consequently people who want to monetise in any form, be it selling a course, doesn't help.

"B-but insert course seller says-" end your life, this world isn't for you.

2. The skull is done growing before the realization hits.

The earlier the better (closer to puberty) supposedly. In reality most of the growth and maturation of bone tissue happens before their balls even drop (pre-puberty).

View attachment 3971674


The take away from this chart is the closer to maturity, the harder supraphysiological growth gets. The age of maturity is individual though and there are outliers, those being a minority. Be realistic.

3. Bone growth after full skeletal maturity is asking for the impossible within the impossible.

I have good and bad news. Provided you're an adult, there is no need to travel back in time into your youth: Height is mostly, if not entirely determined by genetics. Even with environmental factors being completely disregarded in a child's development (e.g. because of malnutrition), the body reaches the predicted height nonetheless. The body sometimes works in our favour. The bad news is that this realisation doesn't change reality, surgery or LDAR.

The mandibular symphysis typically fuses around age 1.

View attachment 3971739

The other functional growth plate in the mandibular is the condylar process. The rest of the skull also has growth plates, but they close earlier than expected.

View attachment 3971746

4. The mechanism of action and nature of the changes present yet another problem.

Let's hypothesise it all works out, there is no way to induce symmetrical growth. There are asymmetries occuring naturally, there is no reason to think supraphysiological bone growth would be any different.

The safest bet to avoid growth errors would be systemic stimulation since local injections are unpredictable. However, that assumes they remain local. Even esterless androgens pass through the whole bloodstream of the body before being metabolised.

5. AAS and peptides cannot remodel your skull.

It's insane assuming they'll cause the skull to gain CCW rotation and realign bones just because someone projects it would. The theory is that it thickens bones, nothing more.
​

After acknowledging that abusing steroids and peptides for an absurd purpose (this being facial bone growth) is asking for failure, I'm offering a solution.

The truth always remains in front of our eyes. Surgery whether someone likes it or not is the only realistic solution. The only limiting factor for that outcome is money (thus time), so grind or it'll remain a dream.

@imontheloose @chadisbeingmade @Eltrē @Orc @DORIAN
​
Click to expand...
this is pretty water information, injecting a few hundred mg's of a shit compound like test or tren/gh would do shit to bones nor will they ever. Just try your luck on compounds directly shipped from labs theory.
 
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SlayerJonas said:
There are multiple flaws in the logic behind peptides and AAS remodelling and/or growing facial bones.

I covered some of these flaws in this thread already, consider this the complete overview.

To be specific, this isn't an anti-roiding thread. Roiding should be done if desiring a body halo provided you know what you are doing. This excludes 99% of people already.

JFL at normies. They cause problems everywhere and die because of anything. The prevalence of gore is enough proof of that. Just think of all the normies that have died because of supplements even if it sounds absurd. Expecting them to mess around with their hormones is just asking for the impossible.

To put it into perspective, stupid people do illogical things because they can't reason in a logical manner. They choose to harm their health to look "cool", cope in any way possible, can't think across a corner, we can keep going for eternity...
​

If done correctly, roiding can be useful for achieving a glorious body halo and even the mental drive is a nice feature. The latter is only secondary though and the real trade-off is the body halo in exchange for time, effort, money, health and sometimes the enjoyability of life.

The first three are self-explanatory, the negative impact on health can be reduced with tons of ancillaries but never fully avoided, the last point being another real problem. Having to bulk and being bloated on-cycle is a harsh reality, most get treated like subhumans by society, it's delayed gratification. This isn't a reason against roiding, it's to make people aware. If you decide to roid up, you'll feel like shit momentarily and that's okay. Roiding during your teenage years (provided almost consequent bulking) could rob you of many experiences including teenage love. Only proceed with roiding if you are mindful of your actions and their consequences.

The thesis that androgens and peptides grow facial bones is based on wishful thinking and utterly devoid of any evidence. We'll dissect each point within this thread.
​

1. There isn't a single molecule of evidence.

Besides theoretical concepts, there is no scientific evidence backing anything up. Not even anecdotal evidence, only cherrypicked angles in B/As feeding into delusions. Pointing fingers at influencers, consequently people who want to monetise in any form, be it selling a course, doesn't help.

"B-but insert course seller says-" end your life, this world isn't for you.

2. The skull is done growing before the realization hits.

The earlier the better (closer to puberty) supposedly. In reality most of the growth and maturation of bone tissue happens before their balls even drop (pre-puberty).

View attachment 3971674


The take away from this chart is the closer to maturity, the harder supraphysiological growth gets. The age of maturity is individual though and there are outliers, those being a minority. Be realistic.

3. Bone growth after full skeletal maturity is asking for the impossible within the impossible.

I have good and bad news. Provided you're an adult, there is no need to travel back in time into your youth: Height is mostly, if not entirely determined by genetics. Even with environmental factors being completely disregarded in a child's development (e.g. because of malnutrition), the body reaches the predicted height nonetheless. The body sometimes works in our favour. The bad news is that this realisation doesn't change reality, surgery or LDAR.

The mandibular symphysis typically fuses around age 1.

View attachment 3971739

The other functional growth plate in the mandibular is the condylar process. The rest of the skull also has growth plates, but they close earlier than expected.

View attachment 3971746

4. The mechanism of action and nature of the changes present yet another problem.

Let's hypothesise it all works out, there is no way to induce symmetrical growth. There are asymmetries occuring naturally, there is no reason to think supraphysiological bone growth would be any different.

The safest bet to avoid growth errors would be systemic stimulation since local injections are unpredictable. However, that assumes they remain local. Even esterless androgens pass through the whole bloodstream of the body before being metabolised.

5. AAS and peptides cannot remodel your skull.

It's insane assuming they'll cause the skull to gain CCW rotation and realign bones just because someone projects it would. The theory is that it thickens bones, nothing more.
​

After acknowledging that abusing steroids and peptides for an absurd purpose (this being facial bone growth) is asking for failure, I'm offering a solution.

The truth always remains in front of our eyes. Surgery whether someone likes it or not is the only realistic solution. The only limiting factor for that outcome is money (thus time), so grind or it'll remain a dream.

@imontheloose @chadisbeingmade @Eltrē @Orc @DORIAN
​
Click to expand...
Looxmakser49 disagrees
There's a reason he deleted all his posts once he ascended
3344753 FD3817F7 E7B5 42E0 857D A9E02FAC9118
 
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SlayerJonas said:
There are multiple flaws in the logic behind peptides and AAS remodelling and/or growing facial bones.

I covered some of these flaws in this thread already, consider this the complete overview.

To be specific, this isn't an anti-roiding thread. Roiding should be done if desiring a body halo provided you know what you are doing. This excludes 99% of people already.

JFL at normies. They cause problems everywhere and die because of anything. The prevalence of gore is enough proof of that. Just think of all the normies that have died because of supplements even if it sounds absurd. Expecting them to mess around with their hormones is just asking for the impossible.

To put it into perspective, stupid people do illogical things because they can't reason in a logical manner. They choose to harm their health to look "cool", cope in any way possible, can't think across a corner, we can keep going for eternity...
​

If done correctly, roiding can be useful for achieving a glorious body halo and even the mental drive is a nice feature. The latter is only secondary though and the real trade-off is the body halo in exchange for time, effort, money, health and sometimes the enjoyability of life.

The first three are self-explanatory, the negative impact on health can be reduced with tons of ancillaries but never fully avoided, the last point being another real problem. Having to bulk and being bloated on-cycle is a harsh reality, most get treated like subhumans by society, it's delayed gratification. This isn't a reason against roiding, it's to make people aware. If you decide to roid up, you'll feel like shit momentarily and that's okay. Roiding during your teenage years (provided almost consequent bulking) could rob you of many experiences including teenage love. Only proceed with roiding if you are mindful of your actions and their consequences.

The thesis that androgens and peptides grow facial bones is based on wishful thinking and utterly devoid of any evidence. We'll dissect each point within this thread.
​

1. There isn't a single molecule of evidence.

Besides theoretical concepts, there is no scientific evidence backing anything up. Not even anecdotal evidence, only cherrypicked angles in B/As feeding into delusions. Pointing fingers at influencers, consequently people who want to monetise in any form, be it selling a course, doesn't help.

"B-but insert course seller says-" end your life, this world isn't for you.

2. The skull is done growing before the realization hits.

The earlier the better (closer to puberty) supposedly. In reality most of the growth and maturation of bone tissue happens before their balls even drop (pre-puberty).

View attachment 3971674


The take away from this chart is the closer to maturity, the harder supraphysiological growth gets. The age of maturity is individual though and there are outliers, those being a minority. Be realistic.

3. Bone growth after full skeletal maturity is asking for the impossible within the impossible.

I have good and bad news. Provided you're an adult, there is no need to travel back in time into your youth: Height is mostly, if not entirely determined by genetics. Even with environmental factors being completely disregarded in a child's development (e.g. because of malnutrition), the body reaches the predicted height nonetheless. The body sometimes works in our favour. The bad news is that this realisation doesn't change reality, surgery or LDAR.

The mandibular symphysis typically fuses around age 1.

View attachment 3971739

The other functional growth plate in the mandibular is the condylar process. The rest of the skull also has growth plates, but they close earlier than expected.

View attachment 3971746

4. The mechanism of action and nature of the changes present yet another problem.

Let's hypothesise it all works out, there is no way to induce symmetrical growth. There are asymmetries occuring naturally, there is no reason to think supraphysiological bone growth would be any different.

The safest bet to avoid growth errors would be systemic stimulation since local injections are unpredictable. However, that assumes they remain local. Even esterless androgens pass through the whole bloodstream of the body before being metabolised.

5. AAS and peptides cannot remodel your skull.

It's insane assuming they'll cause the skull to gain CCW rotation and realign bones just because someone projects it would. The theory is that it thickens bones, nothing more.
​

After acknowledging that abusing steroids and peptides for an absurd purpose (this being facial bone growth) is asking for failure, I'm offering a solution.

The truth always remains in front of our eyes. Surgery whether someone likes it or not is the only realistic solution. The only limiting factor for that outcome is money (thus time), so grind or it'll remain a dream.

@imontheloose @chadisbeingmade @Eltrē @Orc @DORIAN
​
Click to expand...
Just asking. Is it not proven that for example testosterone changes your face? Or course it wont fix your recession but micro changes that are noticable.
I’m thinking of for example trangenders hopping on test, their face is proven to change alot. And obviously change their entire dismorphism.
I personally grew a whole brow ridge. But started in late puberty and I’m a late bloomer. Might be wishful thinking but I’ve been hearing alot about my facial changes.
Although I get your point you wont become chad from roids. But would love it if you could adress facial masculinization and what actually changes.
 
Linus1888 said:
" Acromegaly is a rare condition in adults that causes some bones, organs and other tissue to grow bigger." - https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/acromegaly/symptoms-causes/syc-20351222

I'm not sure if I understand this fully, but that would still prove that you could grow your bones, while it would not be beneficial at all certainly but still be possible in some cases.

cut the primo just the test. (I wouldnt count roiding as a term for using just steroids exclusively even though it is litterally in the name but more so for PEDs that drastically improve muscle mass). Just a simple sarm cycle with test and isotretinoin would be defo benifical for appealing to women

View attachment 3972505
Me soon:
Click to expand...
Sarms while growing:feelsuhh:
 
SlayerJonas said:
There are multiple flaws in the logic behind peptides and AAS remodelling and/or growing facial bones.

I covered some of these flaws in this thread already, consider this the complete overview.

To be specific, this isn't an anti-roiding thread. Roiding should be done if desiring a body halo provided you know what you are doing. This excludes 99% of people already.

JFL at normies. They cause problems everywhere and die because of anything. The prevalence of gore is enough proof of that. Just think of all the normies that have died because of supplements even if it sounds absurd. Expecting them to mess around with their hormones is just asking for the impossible.

To put it into perspective, stupid people do illogical things because they can't reason in a logical manner. They choose to harm their health to look "cool", cope in any way possible, can't think across a corner, we can keep going for eternity...
​

If done correctly, roiding can be useful for achieving a glorious body halo and even the mental drive is a nice feature. The latter is only secondary though and the real trade-off is the body halo in exchange for time, effort, money, health and sometimes the enjoyability of life.

The first three are self-explanatory, the negative impact on health can be reduced with tons of ancillaries but never fully avoided, the last point being another real problem. Having to bulk and being bloated on-cycle is a harsh reality, most get treated like subhumans by society, it's delayed gratification. This isn't a reason against roiding, it's to make people aware. If you decide to roid up, you'll feel like shit momentarily and that's okay. Roiding during your teenage years (provided almost consequent bulking) could rob you of many experiences including teenage love. Only proceed with roiding if you are mindful of your actions and their consequences.

The thesis that androgens and peptides grow facial bones is based on wishful thinking and utterly devoid of any evidence. We'll dissect each point within this thread.
​

1. There isn't a single molecule of evidence.

Besides theoretical concepts, there is no scientific evidence backing anything up. Not even anecdotal evidence, only cherrypicked angles in B/As feeding into delusions. Pointing fingers at influencers, consequently people who want to monetise in any form, be it selling a course, doesn't help.

"B-but insert course seller says-" end your life, this world isn't for you.

2. The skull is done growing before the realization hits.

The earlier the better (closer to puberty) supposedly. In reality most of the growth and maturation of bone tissue happens before their balls even drop (pre-puberty).

View attachment 3971674


The take away from this chart is the closer to maturity, the harder supraphysiological growth gets. The age of maturity is individual though and there are outliers, those being a minority. Be realistic.

3. Bone growth after full skeletal maturity is asking for the impossible within the impossible.

I have good and bad news. Provided you're an adult, there is no need to travel back in time into your youth: Height is mostly, if not entirely determined by genetics. Even with environmental factors being completely disregarded in a child's development (e.g. because of malnutrition), the body reaches the predicted height nonetheless. The body sometimes works in our favour. The bad news is that this realisation doesn't change reality, surgery or LDAR.

The mandibular symphysis typically fuses around age 1.

View attachment 3971739

The other functional growth plate in the mandibular is the condylar process. The rest of the skull also has growth plates, but they close earlier than expected.

View attachment 3971746

4. The mechanism of action and nature of the changes present yet another problem.

Let's hypothesise it all works out, there is no way to induce symmetrical growth. There are asymmetries occuring naturally, there is no reason to think supraphysiological bone growth would be any different.

The safest bet to avoid growth errors would be systemic stimulation since local injections are unpredictable. However, that assumes they remain local. Even esterless androgens pass through the whole bloodstream of the body before being metabolised.

5. AAS and peptides cannot remodel your skull.

It's insane assuming they'll cause the skull to gain CCW rotation and realign bones just because someone projects it would. The theory is that it thickens bones, nothing more.
​

After acknowledging that abusing steroids and peptides for an absurd purpose (this being facial bone growth) is asking for failure, I'm offering a solution.

The truth always remains in front of our eyes. Surgery whether someone likes it or not is the only realistic solution. The only limiting factor for that outcome is money (thus time), so grind or it'll remain a dream.

@imontheloose @chadisbeingmade @Eltrē @Orc @DORIAN
​
Click to expand...
Great post, high IQ, still gonna take em tho!
 
MaracasMogs said:
Heavily frauded and is chopped in motion. Looks deformed. Of course still an ascension but at what cost
Click to expand...
Looks good in motion what're you talking about?
 
iLoveTapWater said:
so then explain people like androgenic or nocturnalkent. These greatly increased facial bonemass after 18, kent even shows progress pictures in between his before and after so you cant say its fillers or surgery.
Click to expand...
Androgenic has the most obvious zygo fillers :forcedsmile:jfl his ogee curve looks stupidly fake, kent got surgery and day also backdate al off their pics idiot, also many edit them just like ehren did
 
i will take tren in a couple of years my goal is to die at around 45 will be fun
 
jeoyw9192 said:
Got any frontal pic changes? Curious to see how the infra support increase you mention looks from the front
Click to expand...
IMG 0552
IMG 0553
these two are the closest in angle i could find
 
guess we are sticking to thumbpulling and masaai jumps
 
SlayerJonas said:
There are multiple flaws in the logic behind peptides and AAS remodelling and/or growing facial bones.

I covered some of these flaws in this thread already, consider this the complete overview.

To be specific, this isn't an anti-roiding thread. Roiding should be done if desiring a body halo provided you know what you are doing. This excludes 99% of people already.

JFL at normies. They cause problems everywhere and die because of anything. The prevalence of gore is enough proof of that. Just think of all the normies that have died because of supplements even if it sounds absurd. Expecting them to mess around with their hormones is just asking for the impossible.

To put it into perspective, stupid people do illogical things because they can't reason in a logical manner. They choose to harm their health to look "cool", cope in any way possible, can't think across a corner, we can keep going for eternity...
​

If done correctly, roiding can be useful for achieving a glorious body halo and even the mental drive is a nice feature. The latter is only secondary though and the real trade-off is the body halo in exchange for time, effort, money, health and sometimes the enjoyability of life.

The first three are self-explanatory, the negative impact on health can be reduced with tons of ancillaries but never fully avoided, the last point being another real problem. Having to bulk and being bloated on-cycle is a harsh reality, most get treated like subhumans by society, it's delayed gratification. This isn't a reason against roiding, it's to make people aware. If you decide to roid up, you'll feel like shit momentarily and that's okay. Roiding during your teenage years (provided almost consequent bulking) could rob you of many experiences including teenage love. Only proceed with roiding if you are mindful of your actions and their consequences.

The thesis that androgens and peptides grow facial bones is based on wishful thinking and utterly devoid of any evidence. We'll dissect each point within this thread.
​

1. There isn't a single molecule of evidence.

Besides theoretical concepts, there is no scientific evidence backing anything up. Not even anecdotal evidence, only cherrypicked angles in B/As feeding into delusions. Pointing fingers at influencers, consequently people who want to monetise in any form, be it selling a course, doesn't help.

"B-but insert course seller says-" end your life, this world isn't for you.

2. The skull is done growing before the realization hits.

The earlier the better (closer to puberty) supposedly. In reality most of the growth and maturation of bone tissue happens before their balls even drop (pre-puberty).

View attachment 3971674


The take away from this chart is the closer to maturity, the harder supraphysiological growth gets. The age of maturity is individual though and there are outliers, those being a minority. Be realistic.

3. Bone growth after full skeletal maturity is asking for the impossible within the impossible.

I have good and bad news. Provided you're an adult, there is no need to travel back in time into your youth: Height is mostly, if not entirely determined by genetics. Even with environmental factors being completely disregarded in a child's development (e.g. because of malnutrition), the body reaches the predicted height nonetheless. The body sometimes works in our favour. The bad news is that this realisation doesn't change reality, surgery or LDAR.

The mandibular symphysis typically fuses around age 1.

View attachment 3971739

The other functional growth plate in the mandibular is the condylar process. The rest of the skull also has growth plates, but they close earlier than expected.

View attachment 3971746

4. The mechanism of action and nature of the changes present yet another problem.

Let's hypothesise it all works out, there is no way to induce symmetrical growth. There are asymmetries occuring naturally, there is no reason to think supraphysiological bone growth would be any different.

The safest bet to avoid growth errors would be systemic stimulation since local injections are unpredictable. However, that assumes they remain local. Even esterless androgens pass through the whole bloodstream of the body before being metabolised.

5. AAS and peptides cannot remodel your skull.

It's insane assuming they'll cause the skull to gain CCW rotation and realign bones just because someone projects it would. The theory is that it thickens bones, nothing more.
​

After acknowledging that abusing steroids and peptides for an absurd purpose (this being facial bone growth) is asking for failure, I'm offering a solution.

The truth always remains in front of our eyes. Surgery whether someone likes it or not is the only realistic solution. The only limiting factor for that outcome is money (thus time), so grind or it'll remain a dream.

@imontheloose @chadisbeingmade @Eltrē @Orc @DORIAN
​
Click to expand...
Not saying I disagree but how do you explain people who have abused 19nors and hgh at the very end of puberty and seen measurable craniofacial changes? Would you put it down to soft tissue changes and masseter hypertrophy?
 
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SlayerJonas said:
There are multiple flaws in the logic behind peptides and AAS remodelling and/or growing facial bones.

I covered some of these flaws in this thread already, consider this the complete overview.

To be specific, this isn't an anti-roiding thread. Roiding should be done if desiring a body halo provided you know what you are doing. This excludes 99% of people already.

JFL at normies. They cause problems everywhere and die because of anything. The prevalence of gore is enough proof of that. Just think of all the normies that have died because of supplements even if it sounds absurd. Expecting them to mess around with their hormones is just asking for the impossible.

To put it into perspective, stupid people do illogical things because they can't reason in a logical manner. They choose to harm their health to look "cool", cope in any way possible, can't think across a corner, we can keep going for eternity...
​

If done correctly, roiding can be useful for achieving a glorious body halo and even the mental drive is a nice feature. The latter is only secondary though and the real trade-off is the body halo in exchange for time, effort, money, health and sometimes the enjoyability of life.

The first three are self-explanatory, the negative impact on health can be reduced with tons of ancillaries but never fully avoided, the last point being another real problem. Having to bulk and being bloated on-cycle is a harsh reality, most get treated like subhumans by society, it's delayed gratification. This isn't a reason against roiding, it's to make people aware. If you decide to roid up, you'll feel like shit momentarily and that's okay. Roiding during your teenage years (provided almost consequent bulking) could rob you of many experiences including teenage love. Only proceed with roiding if you are mindful of your actions and their consequences.

The thesis that androgens and peptides grow facial bones is based on wishful thinking and utterly devoid of any evidence. We'll dissect each point within this thread.
​

1. There isn't a single molecule of evidence.

Besides theoretical concepts, there is no scientific evidence backing anything up. Not even anecdotal evidence, only cherrypicked angles in B/As feeding into delusions. Pointing fingers at influencers, consequently people who want to monetise in any form, be it selling a course, doesn't help.

"B-but insert course seller says-" end your life, this world isn't for you.

2. The skull is done growing before the realization hits.

The earlier the better (closer to puberty) supposedly. In reality most of the growth and maturation of bone tissue happens before their balls even drop (pre-puberty).

View attachment 3971674


The take away from this chart is the closer to maturity, the harder supraphysiological growth gets. The age of maturity is individual though and there are outliers, those being a minority. Be realistic.

3. Bone growth after full skeletal maturity is asking for the impossible within the impossible.

I have good and bad news. Provided you're an adult, there is no need to travel back in time into your youth: Height is mostly, if not entirely determined by genetics. Even with environmental factors being completely disregarded in a child's development (e.g. because of malnutrition), the body reaches the predicted height nonetheless. The body sometimes works in our favour. The bad news is that this realisation doesn't change reality, surgery or LDAR.

The mandibular symphysis typically fuses around age 1.

View attachment 3971739

The other functional growth plate in the mandibular is the condylar process. The rest of the skull also has growth plates, but they close earlier than expected.

View attachment 3971746

4. The mechanism of action and nature of the changes present yet another problem.

Let's hypothesise it all works out, there is no way to induce symmetrical growth. There are asymmetries occuring naturally, there is no reason to think supraphysiological bone growth would be any different.

The safest bet to avoid growth errors would be systemic stimulation since local injections are unpredictable. However, that assumes they remain local. Even esterless androgens pass through the whole bloodstream of the body before being metabolised.

5. AAS and peptides cannot remodel your skull.

It's insane assuming they'll cause the skull to gain CCW rotation and realign bones just because someone projects it would. The theory is that it thickens bones, nothing more.
​

After acknowledging that abusing steroids and peptides for an absurd purpose (this being facial bone growth) is asking for failure, I'm offering a solution.

The truth always remains in front of our eyes. Surgery whether someone likes it or not is the only realistic solution. The only limiting factor for that outcome is money (thus time), so grind or it'll remain a dream.

@imontheloose @chadisbeingmade @Eltrē @Orc @DORIAN
​
Click to expand...
What is your opinion on potential utilization of osteoporosis medications that have clinical evidence of increasing bone growth in localized areas.
 
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