UPPER maxillary projection is the key to aesthetics

@thecel so what surgery we need to get to improve Upper max projection?
 
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
How do you fix cuz im prolly be surgeey cel
 
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
Could this not be achieved without lefort 2 by having paranasal and inframalar implants?
 
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
Could this not be achieved without lefort 2 by having paranasal and inframalar
 
  • +1
Reactions: thecel
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figura 12: Quanto mais retraída a maxila superior de uma pessoa, melhor a Linha Indicadora de Mew.​



Como mencionado anteriormente, o MIL é afetado pelo tamanho do nariz, o que o torna um método absolutamente inadequado para medir o grau de projeção maxilar. Se não fosse afetado pelo tamanho do nariz, seria uma ferramenta útil para medir o equilíbrio entre as projeções superior e inferior: a projeção da maxila inferior em relação à superior. Mas também é inútil para medir isso, já que é afetado pelo tamanho do nariz. Métodos como o triângulo maxilar (Figura 13) são superiores.



View attachment 1033502

Figura 13: O Triângulo Maxilar: um método melhor para medir a projeção maxilar do que a Linha Indicadora de Mew.​






Qual é a principal conclusão?

A projeção da maxila superior é praticamente a projeção da abertura nasal. E a projeção da abertura nasal é o fator mais importante para se obter aquele aspecto de "nariz crescido para a frente". Métodos falhos, como a Linha Indicadora de Mew, são inadequados para medir a projeção da maxila superior.
Click to expand...
Over for Ricecels:lul:
 
  • +1
Reactions: thecel
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
so how would one go about achieving this type of growth? im 15 and want to know if its over
 
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
so should i stick a plunger to my face and pull my upper maxilla to stop having a ricecel upper maxilla
 
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
Good post
 
  • +1
Reactions: damndaniel and thecel
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
JBW LOL
 
  • +1
Reactions: thecel
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
holy documentary
 
  • +1
Reactions: David133 and thecel
thecel said:
Wrote all this shit myself bruh.

I desperately wanna get my threads into BotB. I probably won't make it. Over for forumcels. :feelsrope:
Click to expand...
well u made it bro
 
  • Love it
Reactions: thecel
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
good thread
 
thecel said:
Wrote all this shit myself bruh.

I desperately wanna get my threads into BotB. I probably won't make it. Over for forumcels. :feelsrope:
Click to expand...
Does this mean I have a unprotected upper maxilla
 

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thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
It feels like people only started talking about this last year, rarely saw anything about it before then
 
  • +1
Reactions: Rylie and Sayori
Great thread, here’s a great representation I made for the ideal forward growth.
IMG 1251
IMG 1255
 
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
@doggy take sum notes
 
afitb0726 said:
Does this mean I have a unprotected upper maxilla
Click to expand...
Upper macilla is dimorphic feature.

If youre young, idk if youre even supposed to have it yet.
 
  • +1
Reactions: yussimania
afitb0726 said:
Does this mean I have a unprotected upper maxilla
Click to expand...
you havent done the triangle right it needs to be standardised in the FHP

also you're fine dw ab it
 
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
Proper post, well done.
 
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
DNR obv it is the maxilla is everything
 
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Reactions: murad.89
All "projected" maxilla pics are anglefrauded. In unfrauded pics at the same angle most people of the same race have around the same maxillary projection
 
Animepilled said:
All "projected" maxilla pics are anglefrauded. In unfrauded pics at the same angle most people of the same race have around the same maxillary projection
Click to expand...
Wrong.
 
thecel said:
What's the upper maxilla?

The upper maxilla is essentially the Le Fort 2 area minus the Le Fort 1 area.



View attachment 1033427View attachment 1033418View attachment 1033419

Figure 1: The 3 Le Fort fractures. The upper maxilla is Le Fort 2 minus Le Fort 1.​



The upper maxilla includes the inner infraorbital rims, the nasal ridge, the canine fossa area (Figure 2), and most importantly, the nasal aperture.



View attachment 1033442

Figure 2: Canine fossae​



This post doesn't go into detail about the canine fossa; just know that it's an important part of the upper maxilla.






What does upper maxillary projection look like?

Upper maxillary projection is characterized by the area from the front of the cheekbone to the back of the nose being a smooth transition when viewed from the side, as seen in Figure 3.



View attachment 1033406View attachment 1033407

Figure 3: Almost-side-profile view of a White man with upper maxillary projection​



The man in Figure 3 has a seamless "blend" between the zygoma and the back of the nose. Contrast that with this other man who has a clearly defined border in the same spot:



View attachment 1033448

Figure 4: Poor upper maxillary projection​



The difference is due to the slope of the bone around the nasal aperture. With a forward upper maxilla, the bone on the left and right taper forward and inward toward the nose. With a flat upper maxilla, the bone on both sides of the upper maxilla are parallel.



View attachment 1033403

Figure 5: Caucasoid projected upper maxilla vs. Mongoloid flat upper maxilla​



Projected upper maxillas as typically seen in Caucasoids, whereas a flat upper maxilla is a Mongoloid trait.

Another way to look at this is in terms of the position of the nasal aperture, the hole in the skull you breathe through.



View attachment 1033410View attachment 1033408View attachment 1033409

Figure 6: Underprojected, normal, and overprojected nasal apertures



View attachment 1033417View attachment 1033421

Figure 7: The recessed nasal aperture of a Mongoloid and the projected nasal aperture of a Caucasoid​



An aesthetic upper maxilla is for the most part a projected nasal aperture.

Here's an East Asian woman who got a nose job as well as some procedure that moved her nasal aperture forward and made the surrounding tissue more slanted forwards toward the center:



View attachment 1033404View attachment 1033405

Figure 8: Before and after of an East Asian woman who got a more projected nasal aperture, making the surrounding contour slanted forward toward the middle like Caucasians​



As you can see, she used to have a clearly defined border between the front of her zygos and the back of her nose, and after surgery it turned into a smooth blended transition, which is ideal.






The difference between a projected upper maxilla and a projected nose



This is a recessed subhuman:



View attachment 1033412

Figure 9: A recessed subhuman​



Giving him a forward-protruding Caucasoid nose doesn't result in a good look (Figure 10).



View attachment 1033413

Figure 10: Shit​



His nasal aperture and the bone around it needs to get pulled forward, like this:



View attachment 1033479

Figure 11: Better​



I deliberately kept his nose flat in order to show how a projected upper maxilla with a flat nose mogs a recessed upper maxilla with a projecting nose.






The final nail in the coffin for Mew Indicator Line copers

@loox made a very high-IQ post last year about the faults of the Mew Indicator Line:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-to-measure-a-recessed-maxilla.122146/post-2598129

Unfortunately, it hasn't gotten many views because it's the 60th reply to a thread that claims the Mew Indicator Line is a "great tool." At the time of writing, that thread is in the "Best of the Best" subforum. I think it has merit, but it should be removed from BotB for the Mew Indicator Line's flaws.

What flaws? Well first of all, the Mew Indicator Line (MIL) does a poor job at measuring forward growth. If you think about it, drawing a line from the incisors to the nose tip measures the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper maxilla—though inaccurately because nose size affects the measurement.

A short MIL indicates a more projected lower maxilla compared to the upper, and a long MIL indicates the opposite. Because of the relative nature of the MIL, a more recessed upper maxilla actually causes a shorter and more ideal MIL, which doesn't make sense (Figure 12).



View attachment 1033415

Figure 12: The more recessed a person's upper maxilla, the better the Mew Indicator Line.​



As previously mentioned, MIL is affected by nose size, and this makes it an utterly dog shit method of measuring the degree of maxillary projection. If it weren't affected by nose size, it'd serve as a useful tool for measuring the upper/lower projection balance: the projection of the lower maxilla relative to the upper. But it's useless for measuring that too since it's affected by nose size. Methods such as the maxillary triangle (Figure 13) are superior.



View attachment 1033502

Figure 13: The Maxillary Triangle: a better method of measuring maxillary projection than the Mew Indicator Line.​






What's the key takeaway?

Upper maxillary projection is pretty much nasal aperture projection. And nasal aperture projection is the most important thing for getting that "forward-grown look." Flawed methods like the Mew Indicator Line are bad for measuring upper maxillary projection.
Click to expand...
Thank you for reminding me that I need a Lefort II
 

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Animepilled said:
holy maxillary projection. Considered the most attractive hollywood actress by normies. Must be over for her. Lefort 2 candidate?
Click to expand...
You can still see her projection. Compare that Profile to a recessed one and youll still See the difference. Frankfurt Plane Line doesnt lie.
 
SuicideBomber said:
You can still see her projection. Compare that Profile to a recessed one and youll still See the difference. Frankfurt Plane Line doesnt lie.
Click to expand...
her upper maxilla is not very projected at all, however her side profile is saved by her borderline chimp tier protruding lower maxilla, same thing as pattinson

if she had the average disparity between upper and lower maxillary growth with a balanced curved philtrum, she would look very recessed
 
mackeycel said:
her upper maxilla is not very projected at all, however her side profile is saved by her borderline chimp tier protruding lower maxilla, same thing as pattinson

if she had the average disparity between upper and lower maxillary growth with a balanced curved philtrum, she would look very recessed
Click to expand...
she doesn't have a chimp lower maxilla. Her philtrum is curved nicely
 
SuicideBomber said:
You can still see her projection. Compare that Profile to a recessed one and youll still See the difference. Frankfurt Plane Line doesnt lie.
Click to expand...
what projection? show me a recessed one
 
Fax just ask justin bieber
 

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