BiMax + Implants (Looking for Advice)

[Vercel]

Yeah it's the orbital decompression part, i'll never understand the hype about "deep set eyes", btw this is a "blackpilled" designer resultView attachment 3433079, that's why i don't trust any surgeons from those forums anymore, many will make you look uncanny.

yeah sounds and looks like blackpill incel surgery

guy looks good alredy, diminishing returns from 6-7/10

 

[Lefor3Laser]

yeah sounds and looks like blackpill incel surgery

guy looks good alredy, diminishing returns from 6-7/10

Yeah but it doesn't look natural sadly.

 

[Vercel]

i actually like to discuss this shit, i believe in just have a base theory

i think blackpill is flawless for real sub 5s and if you have real flaws on craniofacial level you should fix it

but its flawed for normies and exaggerated for chads

i think money and status add genuine value if have a base

exmaple:

can a 3/10 indian multi millionaire genuinely pull a 6/10? no way

can a 6/10 NBA Player genuinely pull a 8/10 that really loves him? 100%

 

[Lefor3Laser]

i actually like to discuss this shit, i believe in just have a base theory

i think blackpill is flawless for real sub 5s and if you have real flaws on craniofacial level you should fix it

but its flawed for normies and exaggerated for chads

i think money and status add genuine value if have a base

exmaple:

can a 3/10 indian multi millionaire genuinely pull a 6/10? no way

can a 6/10 NBA Player genuinely pull a 8/10 that really loves him? 100%

Yeah, everything matters, beauty comes from fixing your flaws and not creating new halos.

 

[Liv2109]

Achsoo, ich checks jetzt erst - bin retarded

Das Jaw Angle Implantant hält die BSSO zusammen?

Sorry, bin nicht so gut im erklären, kenne mich eigentlich überhaupt nicht mit diesen ganzen Surgery Sachen aus.

Meinst du ich könnte einfach eine Mail an Kühle eine Mail schreiben, dass ich Selbstzahler bin und es aus ästhetischen Gründen mache? Oder kommt das nicht so gut an, weils ja eine Uni Klinik ist.

Ansonsten Ebker für 15k klingt halt auch nicht schlecht. Berlin wäre sogar in meiner Nähe.

Bisher standen bei mir nur Ramieri und Pagnoni zur Auswahl.

Ramieri kostet Trimax mit Custom Guides and Plates 21k

Pagnoni kostet 32 für Trimax und Infras (nur Costum Infras kosten 17k)

 

[Vercel]

Yeah, everything matters, beauty comes from fixing your flaws and not creating new halos.

i do watch these rehab room videos and he has good and valid takes but bro he's exaggerating

if you look at it from a objetive standpoint you literally cant rate anything other than looks on tinder - its an objetive fact

Instagram is a Dating App too (unofficially) and things like social proof, status, money and things do matter

you objectively and literally can't rate anything other than looks on Tinder

 

[Liv2109]

Wo sthet da was von DVT?

Das ist irgendwie bisschen widersprüchlich.

Einerseits stheht da:



An anderer stelle sthet aber:



Durchführung ohne Kinnstütze hört sich nicht nach CT an, weil das macht man im Liegen aber ein DVT leifert keine axialen Schichten - CT hingegen schon.

cephalometric CT scan Cone Beam damit ist doch DVT gemeint, oder?

 

[Vercel]

i do watch these rehab room videos and he has good and valid takes but bro he's exaggerating

if you look at it from a objetive standpoint you literally cant rate anything other than looks on tinder - its an objetive fact

Instagram is a Dating App too (unofficially) and things like social proof, status, money and things do matter

you objectively and literally can't rate anything other than looks on Tinder

6/10 guy with 10k instagram followers / status and good lifestyle can pull way better on instagram compared to tinder

 

[Vercel]

Sorry, bin nicht so gut im erklären, kenne mich eigentlich überhaupt nicht mit diesen ganzen Surgery Sachen aus.

Meinst du ich könnte einfach eine Mail an Kühle eine Mail schreiben, dass ich Selbstzahler bin und es aus ästhetischen Gründen mache? Oder kommt das nicht so gut an, weils ja eine Uni Klinik ist.

Ansonsten Ebker für 15k klingt halt auch nicht schlecht. Berlin wäre sogar in meiner Nähe.

Bisher standen bei mir nur Ramieri und Pagnoni zur Auswahl.

Ramieri kostet Trimax mit Custom Guides and Plates 21k

Pagnoni kostet 32 für Trimax und Infras (nur Costum Infras kosten 17k)

Ja, aber wenn ich das richtig verstanden habe brauchen die eine Medizinische Indikation um einen zu Operieren?

 

[Vercel]

Ich blicke da auch nicht ganz durch um ehrlich zu sein.

Ich habe einen genehmigten plan und kostenzusage und sie mussten trotzdem nach einer medizinischen indikation suchen um mich zu operiren, also wird das Privat nicht anders sein?

 

[Vercel]

cephalometric CT scan Cone Beam damit ist doch DVT gemeint, oder?

Mit Cone beam computed tomography ist DVT gemeint, ja.

CT wäre einfach nur computed tomography

Im zweifel anrufen und nachfragen.

 

[Lefor3Laser]

i do watch these rehab room videos and he has good and valid takes but bro he's exaggerating

if you look at it from a objetive standpoint you literally cant rate anything other than looks on tinder - its an objetive fact

Instagram is a Dating App too (unofficially) and things like social proof, status, money and things do matter

you objectively and literally can't rate anything other than looks on Tinder

True

 

[Vercel]

Sorry, bin nicht so gut im erklären, kenne mich eigentlich überhaupt nicht mit diesen ganzen Surgery Sachen aus.

Meinst du ich könnte einfach eine Mail an Kühle eine Mail schreiben, dass ich Selbstzahler bin und es aus ästhetischen Gründen mache? Oder kommt das nicht so gut an, weils ja eine Uni Klinik ist.

Ansonsten Ebker für 15k klingt halt auch nicht schlecht. Berlin wäre sogar in meiner Nähe.

Bisher standen bei mir nur Ramieri und Pagnoni zur Auswahl.

Ramieri kostet Trimax mit Custom Guides and Plates 21k

Pagnoni kostet 32 für Trimax und Infras (nur Costum Infras kosten 17k)

Kühle ist das egal - der redet mit dir ganz offen und versteht, dass du die OP wegen des ausshens machst.

Kannst mit dem ganz offen reden.

Ich weiß nur nicht, ob er ohne Medizinische Indikation Operieren darf?

Aber jeder kann doch zu diesen Privaten Ärzten gehen und sich entstellen lassen mit Chin Wing bei Zarrinbal oder wo auch immer also wieso sollte Kühle nicht operieren dürfen?

 

[lurking truecel]

Hey bro, i really cant say much about any of these Doctors.

I never looked into or considered any of them.

My Case is the following:

I have crooked teeth, went to ortho with the intention of paying for braces myself, randomly got approved for surgery somehow, went to a random surgeon with good marketing, immedeately had a bad gut feeling (which turned out to be true) and then saw no other way besides doing research myself.

Now that i have Insurance cover this Surgery, why not try to get the best out of it? Obvously i don't want to look worse after Surgery.

Im posting here because i thought some people here could give me some advice (which turned out to be true, i got decent advice privately).

I noticed one thing that most of these Doctors have in common tho, and that is residing in Switzerland.

And i can probably tell you why - its because most or all of them are Extrinsically Motivated and the Regulations in Switzerland are less strict which means they can upcharge you and you idiots actually pay lmao...

I just googled and found this:



This guy paid 65k for BiMax?!

WTF

Don't get scammed, i don't know where you're from but i bet there are great Local Surgeons in your Country that will accomodate your preferences.

Im getting this Surgery for free and Kühle literally told me:

"Tell me what you want, it'll be easier for me"

"Should we plan purely based on looks / asthetics or perfect health outcome."

Go to him instead or Tobias Ebker at Charité in Berlin but i think the Surgery with Ebker is still like 35k for people outside of Germany but only 15k for residents.

This safi things seems really fucking weird, but I mean he got a lot of hate on this forum. Even tho some promote him but there was some guys who said that he was a scammer etc and botched people so maybe that's why he got really mad. But yes overall making a surgery with a total blsckpilled mindset thinking it will change your life with no health Indicators you want to improve just seems stupid. I believe surgery can change looks s bit but it's mostly exaggerated how much surgery can change and looking uncanny as also mentioned here is a real risk. It's definitely about fixing clear failos

 

[lurking truecel]

And btw I don't believe in alfi's talk about the TMJs fromt hat yt video( or in some way). The TMJs is extremely hard to predict after surgery, and it's good for the TMJs to have the right occlusion ofc but doing large movements will put stress on the TMJs and this is just the way it is. And torquing is risky. It also has alot to do with if the condyle is anteriorly, neutral or posteriorly projected. A posteriorly projected condyle has a bigger chance of getting slightly resorbed during bsso.

 

[Vercel]

And btw I don't believe in alfi's talk about the TMJs fromt hat yt video( or in some way). The TMJs is extremely hard to predict after surgery, and it's good for the TMJs to have the right occlusion ofc but doing large movements will put stress on the TMJs and this is just the way it is. And torquing is risky. It also has alot to do with if the condyle is anteriorly, neutral or posteriorly projected. A posteriorly projected condyle has a bigger chance of getting slightly resorbed during bsso.

yeah i mean the easiest way to verify anything would be asking the patients, right?

i want to hear from the / see the tmj patients myself

 

[Lefor3Laser]

This safi things seems really fucking weird, but I mean he got a lot of hate on this forum. Even tho some promote him but there was some guys who said that he was a scammer etc and botched people so maybe that's why he got really mad. But yes overall making a surgery with a total blsckpilled mindset thinking it will change your life with no health Indicators you want to improve just seems stupid. I believe surgery can change looks s bit but it's mostly exaggerated how much surgery can change and looking uncanny as also mentioned here is a real risk. It's definitely about fixing clear failos

You seem very knowledgeable and i appreciate that, you don't exaggerate about surgeries wich i respect that, yes surgeries aren't going to make you a chad unless you have failos and you actually need them, many factors come in clutch, something that i don't usually see is that people don't take into consideration the facial harmony, for example, someone with a straight nose won't gain alot from bimax unless really reccesed, surgeries are meant to fix failos and not create halos.

 

[lurking truecel]

yeah i mean the easiest way to verify anything would be asking the patients, right?

i want to hear from the / see the tmj patients myself

Yea, I mean I have talked to some people who had bimax, a little less then 10. And for all of them the TMJ seemed fine or even better but it is for sure a area of jaw surgery that is very confusing. I know my right joint is a little bit weared out but I will do the surgery anyway. I hope for the best, the surgeons I have been talking to have said it's fine so to some degree I am just praying it will be okay haha.

 

[Vercel]

Yea, I mean I have talked to some people who had bimax, a little less then 10. And for all of them the TMJ seemed fine or even better but it is for sure a area of jaw surgery that is very confusing. I know my right joint is a little bit weared out but I will do the surgery anyway. I hope for the best, the surgeons I have been talking to have said it's fine so to some degree I am just praying it will be okay haha.

yeah this tmj area is indeed confusing, first ortho said everything is fine, 2nd ortho paniced and said lets take an MRI of my joints and then the 3rd doctor in the same clinic literally says everything is fine and said:

"jutt your lower jaw forawrd, the clicking / popping will be gone" and he's right if i jutt my lower jaw forward very slightly theres no clicking or popping anymore

the theory from alfi about asking why the tmjs are hurt in the first place and that its stemming from bad bite / bad mechanics makes total sense to me tho

 

[Lefor3Laser]

yeah this tmj area is indeed confusing, first ortho said everything is fine, 2nd ortho paniced and said lets take an MRI of my joints and then the 3rd doctor in the same clinic literally says everything is fine and said:

"jutt your lower jaw forawrd, the clicking / popping will be gone" and he's right if i jutt my lower jaw forward very slightly theres no clicking or popping anymore

the theory from alfi about asking why the tmjs are hurt in the first place and that its stemming from bad bite / bad mechanics makes total sense to me tho

For me it's quiet the opposite, i didn't have tmj until i one day i clenched my theets hard and got it, jutting only makes it worse.

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Yea, I mean I have talked to some people who had bimax, a little less then 10. And for all of them the TMJ seemed fine or even better but it is for sure a area of jaw surgery that is very confusing. I know my right joint is a little bit weared out but I will do the surgery anyway. I hope for the best, the surgeons I have been talking to have said it's fine so to some degree I am just praying it will be okay haha.

Did the insurance cover your surgery?, asking if i can do the same if it's for tmj and asymmetry correction.

 

[lurking truecel]

yeah this tmj area is indeed confusing, first ortho said everything is fine, 2nd ortho paniced and said lets take an MRI of my joints and then the 3rd doctor in the same clinic literally says everything is fine and said:

"jutt your lower jaw forawrd, the clicking / popping will be gone" and he's right if i jutt my lower jaw forward very slightly theres no clicking or popping anymore

the theory from alfi about asking why the tmjs are hurt in the first place and that its stemming from bad bite / bad mechanics makes total sense to me tho

Yea, I mean I agree with what he says to some degree. But it's just a bit more complex and I feel like he is trying to sell something all the time when he is talking. Like their is no problems and this surgery is just eazy, which maybe isn't true. I respect him as a surgeon and I mean he even said it himself that he likes the overview and not really the details. I think he himself has adhd or something, he even indiacted it in his podcast. But he is probably very detailed and more realistic if you would really do a surgery with him but his podcast and TikTok is just to sell the procedure which also makes sense.

 

[lurking truecel]

Did the insurance cover your surgery?, asking if i can do the same if it's for tmj and asymmetry correction.

I am gonna search for insurance soon, but I will probably get it covered for sleep apnea and not the TMJs. I don't have that much problem with the TMJ more then numbness sometimes and vertigos

 

[Lefor3Laser]

I am gonna search for insurance soon, but I will probably get it covered for sleep apnea and not the TMJs. I don't have that much problem with the TMJ more then numbness sometimes and vertigos

Wish you good luck, you are going to do it with a local surgeon right?

 

[Vercel]

I am gonna search for insurance soon, but I will probably get it covered for sleep apnea and not the TMJs. I don't have that much problem with the TMJ more then numbness sometimes and vertigos

If you're on the edge of getting it covered because of sleep apnea pn me privately, i helped one guy get his surgery approved this way but this isn't something i can post publically, its actually stupid and dangerous advice but its possible to do responsibly for the sake of getting the surgery approved.

 

[lurking truecel]

Wish you good luck, you are going to do it with a local surgeon right?

Not that locally but a surgeon in Europe

 

[Lefor3Laser]

Not that locally but a surgeon in Europe

Do you think the one's in romania are just as competent let's say germany/italy?

 

[lurking truecel]

Do you think the one's in romania are just as competent let's say germany/italy?

I think everyone who does bimax is almost equally as competent. But I think the surgeon most be willing to talk about the aesthetic outcome and that he is not to conservative on the movements. And it also depends on the guides and plates. Then there is a lot of different preferences among different surgeons about what you should and not do so their will allways be a personal component to that specific surgeon. Some dont like CCW etc and some love it

 

[Lefor3Laser]

I think everyone who does bimax is almost equally as competent. But I think the surgeon most be willing to talk about the aesthetic outcome and that he is not to conservative on the movements. And it also depends on the guides and plates. Then there is a lot of different preferences among different surgeons about what you should and not do so their will allways be a personal component to that specific surgeon. Some dont like CCW etc and some love it

Appreciate the poit of view.

 

[Liv2109]

Kühle ist das egal - der redet mit dir ganz offen und versteht, dass du die OP wegen des ausshens machst.

Kannst mit dem ganz offen reden.

Ich weiß nur nicht, ob er ohne Medizinische Indikation Operieren darf?

Aber jeder kann doch zu diesen Privaten Ärzten gehen und sich entstellen lassen mit Chin Wing bei Zarrinbal oder wo auch immer also wieso sollte Kühle nicht operieren dürfen?

In der Theorie müsste es ja bei mir auch eine medizinische Indikation geben, da ich einen zurückgesetzten Kiefer habe. Wird bei mir nur bei weiten nicht reichen, damit es die Kasse zahlt.

Will nur nicht wie ein Spast rüber kommen, wenn ich Ebker oder Kühle schreibe, dass ich es nur aus ästhetischen Gründen mache Ramieri oder Pagnoni sind das ja gewohnt.

Danke dir auf jeden Fall für deine Antworten!