Collagen Maxxing: The Evidence-Based Guide

To fully optimize our skin's ability to promote collagen production, we need to understand the process of collagen synthesis on a fundamental level. When mRNA moves into the cytoplasm and interacts with ribosomes, both magnesium and zinc are needed for translation to occur. After translation, this polypeptide chain travels to the endoplasmic reticulum (ER). The polypeptide chain undergoes enzymatic modifications, including hydroxylation of proline and lysine which requires iron and vitamin C as cofactors (and oxygen). This process creates procollagen which is released from the fibroblast. The ends of the procollagen molecule are removed by peptidases and the molecule becomes tropocollagen. Tropocollagen undergoes covalent bonding through lysyl oxidase and this creates a collagen fibril. tl;dr magnesium, zinc, iron, vitamin C are necessary co-factors.

Now I know PSL autists are obsessed with carotenoids. Beta-carotene increases type I procollagen mRNA levels, but procollagen is a precursor and not collagen itself so this will not give us noticeable enough results. We need to upregulate gene expression in order to synthesize a functional product. Astaxanthin with hydrolyzed collagen upregulates type I procollagen gene expression and decreases MMP-1 and -12. MMP-1, the prototypical MMP, degrades collagen types 1 and 3. Polyphenols will take this a step further within the sub-class of proanthocyanidins. Specifically, pycnogenol stimulates type I collagen synthesis in subjects’ skin by increasing gene expression by 41%. tl;dr astaxanthin, collagen peptides, and pycnogenol (OPCs).

The main goal should be to find exogenous ways to stimulate type I collagen synthesis since it’s the most abundant collagen found in the skin, and it is the most significant one we lose as we age. Orthosilicic acid stimulates collagen type 1 synthesis and osteoblastic differentiation in human osteoblast-like cells. Processed panax ginseng, sun ginseng stimulates type I collagen by regulating MMP-1 and TIMP-1 expression in human dermal fibroblasts. 10-hydroxy-2-decenoic acid, a characteristic constituent of lipids from honeybee royal jelly extract, stimulates normal human dermal fibroblast cell lines and produce transforming growth factor(TGF) β1, a cytokine that stimulates collagen synthesis. Aloe vera is already mentioned on this forum, but the polysaccharide acemannan in aloe is what causes collagen biosynthesis. tl;dr orthosilicic acid (BioSil), red panax ginseng, honeybee royal jelly extract, and aloe vera.

There are other nutraceuticals, but all the oral supplements I listed are the most evidence-based to promote collagen production. When it comes to skincare, water is wet. But tretinoin increases type I and type III collagen as well as inhibits the expression of MMP-1, which I mentioned breaks down collagen. Topical vitamin C also stimulates type I and type III collagen synthesis. Vitamin C suppresses MMPs responsible for collagen degradation and increases the tissue inhibitor of MMPs, as well as mRNA levels of collagens I and III. Ferulic acid stabilizes solutions of vitamins C and E and doubles its photoprotection of skin so if you’re buying a vitamin C serum without it then it’s over for you. The vitamin C serum also must have a pH below 3.5 for effective penetration. Ascorbic acid serums must be at least 10% to be effective. The maximum amount of ascorbic acid penetration was seen at 20% with a pH of 3.2, so a vitamin C serum with this concentration will give you the best results. Topical 5% niacinamide may stimulate collagen synthesis and the epidermal proteins. Apparently niacinamide had no strong documented effect on collagen, but a study showed that niacinamide was able to increase dermal matrix collagen production. 20% Glycolic acid treatment also increases type I collagen mRNA and hyaluronic acid content of human skin. tl;dr 0.025%+ tretinoin, 20% vitamin c with e and ferulic acid, 5% niacinamide, 20% glycolic acid peels.

For cosmetic peptides, @x30001 would often shill the use of GHK-cu since copper peptides do stimulate collagen synthesis by a noticeable percent. But if they’re overused, GHK-cu can cause more damage than good (can cause a crepey skin texture). So no need to use it yet since you’re all still teencels. Also there are better proven peptides for collagenmaxxing pursuits. Matrixyl 3000 (trademark for palmitoyl tripeptide-1 and palmitoyl tetrapeptide-7) stimulates type I collagen, fibronectin, and hyaluronic acid. The 8% concentration is the highest concentration proven to be effective in vivo. Matrixyl synthe'6 (trademark for palmitoyl tripeptide-38) stimulates type I, type III, and type IV collagen, as well as fibronectin and hyaluronic acid. The 2% concentration is the highest concentration proven to be effective in vivo. The original Matrixyl (trademark for palmitoyl pentapeptide-4) also stimulates collagen types I, III, and IV, as well as elastin and fibronectin. Tetrapeptide-21 and EGF (human oligopeptide-1) are also often sought after by the foid skincare community. tl;dr matrixyl, matrixyl 3000, matrixyl synthe'6, tetrapeptide-21, and egf.

Another skincare ingredient this site has never heard of is centella asiatica extract or madecassosides. Madecassosides stimulate type I collagen synthesis in human dermal fibroblast cells. Referring back to process of collagen synthesis, centella asiatica increased the metabolism of lysine and proline, the amino acids that I mentioned that build the collagen molecule. In addition, these compounds increased the synthesis of tropocollagen and mucopolysaccharide in the connective tissues. You need to find a cream with at least 0.1% madecassosides.

As a reminder for sunscreen, it needs to be SPF 50+ PA++++. UVA rays cause tanning, hyperpigmentation, fine lines and wrinkles, while UVB causes sunburn. SPF only rates UVB, while the PA system (or PPD) rates UVA. The sunscreen should consist of photostable UV filters too so ingredients like zinc oxide and titanium dioxide mog oxybenzone and benzophenone.

Use https://incidecoder.com/ if you need help finding specific ingredients, but this thread was just an overview for a future thread that will go over the routine.

Sources:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507709/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4390761/
https://www.pycnogenol.com/fileadmi...chures/Pycnogenol_OralSkinCare_EN_161_WEB.pdf
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12633784/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3659568/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3583892/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11407971/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16185284/
https://kindofstephen.com/skin-penetration-of-ascorbic-acid/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2921764/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11359487/
http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/Matrixyl3000report.pdf
http://www.beautyandskin.co.nz/i/images/matrixylsynth6copy.pdf

Everyone who asked to be tagged and a couple others:
@mido the slayer, @Don't Forget to mew, @Dyorotic2, @ThreadMatters, @GarouTheIncel, @Tortereeno, @looksaboveeverything, @alexjones, @Merlix, @Good_Little_Goy, @Lorsss, @her, @Kingkellz

 

[Cope]

Happy to revisit this and give my input. Brilliant thread! We need more anecdotes in here about what works and what doesn't. I know GHK-cu is expensive, but it seems like @Alarico8, @ExtraChromasome and I were the only 3 users who used it. Imo it worked best for me for skinmaxxing overall. Very expensive too. I'm using Argireline, Niacinamide and Retin-A at the moment. Trying 5A1MQ soon for 4 months and will see whether it has an effect on my skin quality.

From everything I've tried, I really believe a consistent healthy sleep schedule, diet with fatty fish, intermittent fasting, keeping stress low and not drinking much alcohol helps the most. Moisturising your skin too and avoiding UV damage too. I haven't been doing Derminator2 and LLLT consistently enough to say whether they help, but I'll trial them again.

S/o to @Cope for adding value to the forum

Thank you man! I bounced a lot of my ideas and findings off your older posts, so users like you have always inspired me a lot.

I've used both the Super GHK Copper serum and the 3% GHK Luxury cream. Didn't really use either product for too long, but 3% cream significantly helped heal a wound I had so the product definitely has potential. I used Matrixyl 3000 and Matrixyl Synthe'6 from Timeless for the longest time, I definitely think they've made a difference since everyone still thinks I'm 16 . But honestly both my parents have good aging genetics so I do attribute a lot of it to that.

I used to use so many skincare products, not to say they didn't work but it can be hard to tell. I think a low pH cleanser, 20% Vitamin C E Ferulic, a moisturizer that mimics the moisture barrier, a high PA sunscreen, and Retin-A are essential to a skincare routine. It honestly though just goes back to basics of an overall healthy lifestyle. But yea, I can't stress just how important a high PA sunscreen is for UV-B damage.

I haven't used my Derminator in a long time either. Still need to buy a red light therapy device. I will look into it more but I think the MitoPro series is the best on the market. I may try out Syn-Coll in the future but idk.

I also started using the Curology Tretinoin Custom Formula. It's a lot more effective than the Retin-A products from sites like AllDayChemist.

 

[AscendingHero]

I also started using the Curology Tretinoin Custom Formula. It's a lot more effective than the Retin-A products from sites like AllDayChemist.

What percentage dosage are you using?

please link me your source bro

What would you recommend for a routine to get thom strijd collagen fast for richcels?

 

[Pendejo]

20% Vitamin C E Ferulic

How much of a difference does this make? Last time I tried to buy it was out of stock

 

[Deleted member 7098]

How much of a difference does this make? Last time I tried to buy it was out of stock

copy what Win200 and do, that's all you need for collagen maxing

rather look at people that actually look insanely young at their age than to believe in bought bogus research

 

[Gh3lfaceA113]

To fully optimize our skin's ability to promote collagen production, we need to understand the process of collagen synthesis on a fundamental level. When mRNA moves into the cytoplasm and interacts with ribosomes, both magnesium and zinc are needed for translation to occur. After translation, this polypeptide chain travels to the endoplasmic reticulum (ER). The polypeptide chain undergoes enzymatic modifications, including hydroxylation of proline and lysine which requires iron and vitamin C as cofactors (and oxygen). This process creates procollagen which is released from the fibroblast. The ends of the procollagen molecule are removed by peptidases and the molecule becomes tropocollagen. Tropocollagen undergoes covalent bonding through lysyl oxidase and this creates a collagen fibril. tl;dr magnesium, zinc, iron, vitamin C are necessary co-factors.

Now I know PSL autists are obsessed with carotenoids. Beta-carotene increases type I procollagen mRNA levels, but procollagen is a precursor and not collagen itself so this will not give us noticeable enough results. We need to upregulate gene expression in order to synthesize a functional product. Astaxanthin with hydrolyzed collagen upregulates type I procollagen gene expression and decreases MMP-1 and -12. MMP-1, the prototypical MMP, degrades collagen types 1 and 3. Polyphenols will take this a step further within the sub-class of proanthocyanidins. Specifically, pycnogenol stimulates type I collagen synthesis in subjects’ skin by increasing gene expression by 41%. tl;dr astaxanthin, collagen peptides, and pycnogenol (OPCs).

The main goal should be to find exogenous ways to stimulate type I collagen synthesis since it’s the most abundant collagen found in the skin, and it is the most significant one we lose as we age. Orthosilicic acid stimulates collagen type 1 synthesis and osteoblastic differentiation in human osteoblast-like cells. Processed panax ginseng, sun ginseng stimulates type I collagen by regulating MMP-1 and TIMP-1 expression in human dermal fibroblasts. 10-hydroxy-2-decenoic acid, a characteristic constituent of lipids from honeybee royal jelly extract, stimulates normal human dermal fibroblast cell lines and produce transforming growth factor(TGF) β1, a cytokine that stimulates collagen synthesis. Aloe vera is already mentioned on this forum, but the polysaccharide acemannan in aloe is what causes collagen biosynthesis. tl;dr orthosilicic acid (BioSil), red panax ginseng, honeybee royal jelly extract, and aloe vera.

There are other nutraceuticals, but all the oral supplements I listed are the most evidence-based to promote collagen production. When it comes to skincare, water is wet. But tretinoin increases type I and type III collagen as well as inhibits the expression of MMP-1, which I mentioned breaks down collagen. Topical vitamin C also stimulates type I and type III collagen synthesis. Vitamin C suppresses MMPs responsible for collagen degradation and increases the tissue inhibitor of MMPs, as well as mRNA levels of collagens I and III. Ferulic acid stabilizes solutions of vitamins C and E and doubles its photoprotection of skin so if you’re buying a vitamin C serum without it then it’s over for you. The vitamin C serum also must have a pH below 3.5 for effective penetration. Ascorbic acid serums must be at least 10% to be effective. The maximum amount of ascorbic acid penetration was seen at 20% with a pH of 3.2, so a vitamin C serum with this concentration will give you the best results. Topical 5% niacinamide may stimulate collagen synthesis and the epidermal proteins. Apparently niacinamide had no strong documented effect on collagen, but a study showed that niacinamide was able to increase dermal matrix collagen production. 20% Glycolic acid treatment also increases type I collagen mRNA and hyaluronic acid content of human skin. tl;dr 0.025%+ tretinoin, 20% vitamin c with e and ferulic acid, 5% niacinamide, 20% glycolic acid peels.

For cosmetic peptides, @x30001 would often shill the use of GHK-cu since copper peptides do stimulate collagen synthesis by a noticeable percent. But if they’re overused, GHK-cu can cause more damage than good (can cause a crepey skin texture). So no need to use it yet since you’re all still teencels. Also there are better proven peptides for collagenmaxxing pursuits. Matrixyl 3000 (trademark for palmitoyl tripeptide-1 and palmitoyl tetrapeptide-7) stimulates type I collagen, fibronectin, and hyaluronic acid. The 8% concentration is the highest concentration proven to be effective in vivo. Matrixyl synthe'6 (trademark for palmitoyl tripeptide-38) stimulates type I, type III, and type IV collagen, as well as fibronectin and hyaluronic acid. The 2% concentration is the highest concentration proven to be effective in vivo. The original Matrixyl (trademark for palmitoyl pentapeptide-4) also stimulates collagen types I, III, and IV, as well as elastin and fibronectin. Tetrapeptide-21 and EGF (human oligopeptide-1) are also often sought after by the foid skincare community. tl;dr matrixyl, matrixyl 3000, matrixyl synthe'6, tetrapeptide-21, and egf.

Another skincare ingredient this site has never heard of is centella asiatica extract or madecassosides. Madecassosides stimulate type I collagen synthesis in human dermal fibroblast cells. Referring back to process of collagen synthesis, centella asiatica increased the metabolism of lysine and proline, the amino acids that I mentioned that build the collagen molecule. In addition, these compounds increased the synthesis of tropocollagen and mucopolysaccharide in the connective tissues. You need to find a cream with at least 0.1% madecassosides.

As a reminder for sunscreen, it needs to be SPF 50+ PA++++. UVA rays cause tanning, hyperpigmentation, fine lines and wrinkles, while UVB causes sunburn. SPF only rates UVB, while the PA system (or PPD) rates UVA. The sunscreen should consist of photostable UV filters too so ingredients like zinc oxide and titanium dioxide mog oxybenzone and benzophenone.

Use https://incidecoder.com/ if you need help finding specific ingredients, but this thread was just an overview for a future thread that will go over the routine.

Sources:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK507709/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4390761/
https://www.pycnogenol.com/fileadmi...chures/Pycnogenol_OralSkinCare_EN_161_WEB.pdf
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12633784/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3659568/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3583892/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11407971/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16185284/
https://kindofstephen.com/skin-penetration-of-ascorbic-acid/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2921764/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11359487/
http://www.smartskincare.com/treatments/topical/Matrixyl3000report.pdf
http://www.beautyandskin.co.nz/i/images/matrixylsynth6copy.pdf

Everyone who asked to be tagged and a couple others:
@mido the slayer, @Don't Forget to mew, @Dyorotic2, @ThreadMatters, @GarouTheIncel, @Tortereeno, @looksaboveeverything, @alexjones, @Merlix, @Good_Little_Goy, @Lorsss, @her, @Kingkellz

should i actually take collagen the doctor prescribd me it for my fingernails cuz they break easily

 

[AscendingHero]

Thank you man! I bounced a lot of my ideas and findings off your older posts, so users like you have always inspired me a lot.

I've used both the Super GHK Copper serum and the 3% GHK Luxury cream. Didn't really use either product for too long, but 3% cream significantly helped heal a wound I had so the product definitely has potential. I used Matrixyl 3000 and Matrixyl Synthe'6 from Timeless for the longest time, I definitely think they've made a difference since everyone still thinks I'm 16 . But honestly both my parents have good aging genetics so I do attribute a lot of it to that.

I used to use so many skincare products, not to say they didn't work but it can be hard to tell. I think a low pH cleanser, 20% Vitamin C E Ferulic, a moisturizer that mimics the moisture barrier, a high PA sunscreen, and Retin-A are essential to a skincare routine. It honestly though just goes back to basics of an overall healthy lifestyle. But yea, I can't stress just how important a high PA sunscreen is for UV-B damage.

I haven't used my Derminator in a long time either. Still need to buy a red light therapy device. I will look into it more but I think the MitoPro series is the best on the market. I may try out Syn-Coll in the future but idk.

I also started using the Curology Tretinoin Custom Formula. It's a lot more effective than the Retin-A products from sites like AllDayChemist.

Insane information, mirin experience

Bookmarked bro!

 

[Pendejo]

should i actually take collagen the doctor prescribd me it for my fingernails cuz they break easily

Yeah, I assume they are collagen type 1 supplements which are not only good for nails, but also for skin.

 

[Cope]

What percentage dosage are you using?

1%, going move up to 1.4% soon

How much of a difference does this make? Last time I tried to buy it was out of stock

I get mine from Timeless.

 

[Pendejo]

I get mine from Timeless.

“This product is not available in the European Union and the UK”

That’s the one I tried to buy a while back, but it was out of stock in the few websites that shipped it to my country.

 

[Cope]

“This product is not available in the European Union and the UK”

That’s the one I tried to buy a while back, but it was out of stock in the few websites that shipped it to my country.

There's plenty of dupes, check out DRMTLGY or bioBare.

 

[Gandy]

Happy to revisit this and give my input. Brilliant thread! We need more anecdotes in here about what works and what doesn't. I know GHK-cu is expensive, but it seems like @Alarico8, @ExtraChromasome and I were the only 3 users who used it. Imo it worked best for me for skinmaxxing overall. Very expensive too. I'm using Argireline, Niacinamide and Retin-A at the moment. Trying 5A1MQ soon for 4 months and will see whether it has an effect on my skin quality.

From everything I've tried, I really believe a consistent healthy sleep schedule, diet with fatty fish, intermittent fasting, keeping stress low and not drinking much alcohol helps the most. Moisturising your skin too and avoiding UV damage too. I haven't been doing Derminator2 and LLLT consistently enough to say whether they help, but I'll trial them again.

S/o to @Cope for adding value to the forum

Copper peptides absolutely do work for reversing aging, fine lines and increasing collagen/youthfulness.
The problem is as you said they are so costly most users wont be able to afford buying skincare serums containing copper peptides on a regular basis.

 

[Seth Walsh]

Copper peptides absolutely do work for reversing aging, fine lines and increasing collagen/youthfulness.
The problem is as you said they are so costly most users wont be able to afford buying skincare serums containing copper peptides on a regular basis.

I used GHK-cu for the best part of 20 months, not daily, but I can attest that it improved my skin appearance hugely, unlike anything else. I never noticed anything like "crepy skin". Most noticeable differences was the tightening of skin on my sub-mental (sub mandible) area and just in general a more youthful looking face without making me look less masculine in any way. I made a thread about the GHK-cu and gene expression, documenting how it influences 306 gene expressions and exactly what those genes are and what role they play. GHK-cu does seem to lower IGF-1 and upregulate the retinoic acid receptor, both of which would support that anti-aging effect.

It's not something to use everyday though and far too expensive and difficult to source I bought to bottles of the serum. Third one I ordered got stuck in customs and returned to seller. Shipping times were usually 5-7 weeks too. Hardest thing is finding a good vendor for it. There's research indicating it helps protect the skin from UV damage too. In my experience it's excellent. It's just something we need more anecdotes for. Helped heal incision wounds after gyno surgery too, and was my #1 ancillary for microneedling (face + hair).

I know it sounds like I'm a shill but I'm not, I just really want others to try it so we can compare effects and get more collective anecdotal feedback on it. Didn't really have any downsides besides the costs, the vendor/shipping times etc. Haven't used it since some time in 2021.

Btw I'm talking about 8% GHK-cu serum specifically. A lot of "copper peptide" products don't actually contain the GHK tripeptide so sourcing and finding a reliable vendor is the main challenge. I've never injected it either, but from what I can see from other's experience, it's most effective used topically, especially when the focus is on improving skin quality.

GHK-cu and the gene expressions it modulates, and by what %

Gene Expression Analysis Fibrinogen Suppression (needed to create blood clots) Gene title Percent change in gene expression Fibrinogen alpha chain, FGA 121% Fibrinogen beta chain, FGB −475% GHK also suppresses the production of the inflammatory cytokine...

looksmax.org

 

[Seth Walsh]

I used GHK-cu for the best part of 20 months, not daily, but I can attest that it improved my skin appearance hugely, unlike anything else. I never noticed anything like "crepy skin". Most noticeable differences was the tightening of skin on my sub-mental (sub mandible) area and just in general a more youthful looking face without making me look less masculine in any way. I made a thread about the GHK-cu and gene expression, documenting how it influences 306 gene expressions and exactly what those genes are and what role they play. GHK-cu does seem to lower IGF-1 and upregulate the retinoic acid receptor, both of which would support that anti-aging effect.

It's not something to use everyday though and far too expensive and difficult to source I bought to bottles of the serum. Third one I ordered got stuck in customs and returned to seller. Shipping times were usually 5-7 weeks too. Hardest thing is finding a good vendor for it. There's research indicating it helps protect the skin from UV damage too. In my experience it's excellent. It's just something we need more anecdotes for. Helped heal incision wounds after gyno surgery too, and was my #1 ancillary for microneedling (face + hair).

I know it sounds like I'm a shill but I'm not, I just really want others to try it so we can compare effects and get more collective anecdotal feedback on it. Didn't really have any downsides besides the costs, the vendor/shipping times etc. Haven't used it since some time in 2021.

Btw I'm talking about 8% GHK-cu serum specifically. A lot of "copper peptide" products don't actually contain the GHK tripeptide so sourcing and finding a reliable vendor is the main challenge. I've never injected it either, but from what I can see from other's experience, it's most effective used topically, especially when the focus is on improving skin quality.

GHK-cu and the gene expressions it modulates, and by what %

Gene Expression Analysis Fibrinogen Suppression (needed to create blood clots) Gene title Percent change in gene expression Fibrinogen alpha chain, FGA 121% Fibrinogen beta chain, FGB −475% GHK also suppresses the production of the inflammatory cytokine...

looksmax.org

@benignice also had great info on skincare. He's a dermatologist and his posts are still available on the forum.

 

[Deleted member 17749]

I used GHK-cu for the best part of 20 months, not daily, but I can attest that it improved my skin appearance hugely, unlike anything else. I never noticed anything like "crepy skin". Most noticeable differences was the tightening of skin on my sub-mental (sub mandible) area and just in general a more youthful looking face without making me look less masculine in any way. I made a thread about the GHK-cu and gene expression, documenting how it influences 306 gene expressions and exactly what those genes are and what role they play. GHK-cu does seem to lower IGF-1 and upregulate the retinoic acid receptor, both of which would support that anti-aging effect.

It's not something to use everyday though and far too expensive and difficult to source I bought to bottles of the serum. Third one I ordered got stuck in customs and returned to seller. Shipping times were usually 5-7 weeks too. Hardest thing is finding a good vendor for it. There's research indicating it helps protect the skin from UV damage too. In my experience it's excellent. It's just something we need more anecdotes for. Helped heal incision wounds after gyno surgery too, and was my #1 ancillary for microneedling (face + hair).

I know it sounds like I'm a shill but I'm not, I just really want others to try it so we can compare effects and get more collective anecdotal feedback on it. Didn't really have any downsides besides the costs, the vendor/shipping times etc. Haven't used it since some time in 2021.

Btw I'm talking about 8% GHK-cu serum specifically. A lot of "copper peptide" products don't actually contain the GHK tripeptide so sourcing and finding a reliable vendor is the main challenge. I've never injected it either, but from what I can see from other's experience, it's most effective used topically, especially when the focus is on improving skin quality.

GHK-cu and the gene expressions it modulates, and by what %

Gene Expression Analysis Fibrinogen Suppression (needed to create blood clots) Gene title Percent change in gene expression Fibrinogen alpha chain, FGA 121% Fibrinogen beta chain, FGB −475% GHK also suppresses the production of the inflammatory cytokine...

looksmax.org

Where did you buy it?

 

[Seth Walsh]

Where did you buy it?

reverskinaging.com

 

[Deleted member 17749]

reverskinaging.com

I didnt find the 8% you were talking about.
I found a 3% with "strenght:25"

 

[Seth Walsh]

I didnt find the 8% you were talking about.
I found a 3% with "strenght:25"

Yah that's fine

 

[StuffedFrog]

I used GHK-cu for the best part of 20 months, not daily, but I can attest that it improved my skin appearance hugely, unlike anything else. I never noticed anything like "crepy skin". Most noticeable differences was the tightening of skin on my sub-mental (sub mandible) area and just in general a more youthful looking face without making me look less masculine in any way. I made a thread about the GHK-cu and gene expression, documenting how it influences 306 gene expressions and exactly what those genes are and what role they play. GHK-cu does seem to lower IGF-1 and upregulate the retinoic acid receptor, both of which would support that anti-aging effect.

It's not something to use everyday though and far too expensive and difficult to source I bought to bottles of the serum. Third one I ordered got stuck in customs and returned to seller. Shipping times were usually 5-7 weeks too. Hardest thing is finding a good vendor for it. There's research indicating it helps protect the skin from UV damage too. In my experience it's excellent. It's just something we need more anecdotes for. Helped heal incision wounds after gyno surgery too, and was my #1 ancillary for microneedling (face + hair).

I know it sounds like I'm a shill but I'm not, I just really want others to try it so we can compare effects and get more collective anecdotal feedback on it. Didn't really have any downsides besides the costs, the vendor/shipping times etc. Haven't used it since some time in 2021.

Btw I'm talking about 8% GHK-cu serum specifically. A lot of "copper peptide" products don't actually contain the GHK tripeptide so sourcing and finding a reliable vendor is the main challenge. I've never injected it either, but from what I can see from other's experience, it's most effective used topically, especially when the focus is on improving skin quality.

GHK-cu and the gene expressions it modulates, and by what %

Gene Expression Analysis Fibrinogen Suppression (needed to create blood clots) Gene title Percent change in gene expression Fibrinogen alpha chain, FGA 121% Fibrinogen beta chain, FGB −475% GHK also suppresses the production of the inflammatory cytokine...

looksmax.org

do you use it topically? can you give a link

 

[Yoke]

the ordinary has a serum with ghk-cu (1%), matrixyl, and argirelox for ~$30/30ml. alternatively you can buy raw ghk-cu powder from chinks/pajeets and make a serum yourself

 

[Yoke]

Btw I'm talking about 8% GHK-cu serum specifically.

Where are you finding 8% GHK-cu serum? From reverseskinaging:

Their 'Super GHK Copper Cream or Serum' contains 1% GHK-cu
Their 3% GHK VIP Luxury Serum contains 3% ofc

Their 7% GHK-Cu Accelerant contains 7%, however it's meant to be diluted into other products not used alone, and if you do dilute it per their instructions you end up with very weak concentrations

HOW TO USE:
Based on controlled studies of women in their 50s, active creams containing between 0.03% - 3.0% (a hundredfold difference) produced visible cosmetic effects such as improved appearance and enhanced skin beauty upon self-assessment. NOTE: All successful studies on GHK-copper use at least 0.33% GHK-copper for areas with thicker skin (such as the face) or 0.03% for thinner skin (such as that around the eyes).

This indicates that an excellent starting point for mixture would be 1.5 drops per 15mL of a GHK-Cu free product (which would result in a topical containing .03% GHK-Cu).

 

[Cope]

Where are you finding 8% GHK-cu serum? From reverseskinaging:

Their 'Super GHK Copper Cream or Serum' contains 1% GHK-cu
Their 3% GHK VIP Luxury Serum contains 3% ofc

Their 7% GHK-Cu Accelerant contains 7%, however it's meant to be diluted into other products not used alone, and if you do dilute it per their instructions you end up with very weak concentrations

Use this chart to figure out the concentration you would want:

Or just toss the product into a basic moisturizer or HA serum tbh. Don't mix with antioxidants or BHAs/AHAs to prevent hydrolysis.

 

[Edgar]

Tldr? @TsarTsar444

 

[Cope]

I used GHK-cu for the best part of 20 months, not daily, but I can attest that it improved my skin appearance hugely, unlike anything else. I never noticed anything like "crepy skin". Most noticeable differences was the tightening of skin on my sub-mental (sub mandible) area and just in general a more youthful looking face without making me look less masculine in any way. I made a thread about the GHK-cu and gene expression, documenting how it influences 306 gene expressions and exactly what those genes are and what role they play. GHK-cu does seem to lower IGF-1 and upregulate the retinoic acid receptor, both of which would support that anti-aging effect.

It's not something to use everyday though and far too expensive and difficult to source I bought to bottles of the serum. Third one I ordered got stuck in customs and returned to seller. Shipping times were usually 5-7 weeks too. Hardest thing is finding a good vendor for it. There's research indicating it helps protect the skin from UV damage too. In my experience it's excellent. It's just something we need more anecdotes for. Helped heal incision wounds after gyno surgery too, and was my #1 ancillary for microneedling (face + hair).

I know it sounds like I'm a shill but I'm not, I just really want others to try it so we can compare effects and get more collective anecdotal feedback on it. Didn't really have any downsides besides the costs, the vendor/shipping times etc. Haven't used it since some time in 2021.

Btw I'm talking about 8% GHK-cu serum specifically. A lot of "copper peptide" products don't actually contain the GHK tripeptide so sourcing and finding a reliable vendor is the main challenge. I've never injected it either, but from what I can see from other's experience, it's most effective used topically, especially when the focus is on improving skin quality.

GHK-cu and the gene expressions it modulates, and by what %

Gene Expression Analysis Fibrinogen Suppression (needed to create blood clots) Gene title Percent change in gene expression Fibrinogen alpha chain, FGA 121% Fibrinogen beta chain, FGB −475% GHK also suppresses the production of the inflammatory cytokine...

looksmax.org

Is GHK-cu orally bioavailable? BioPrime makes a solution for sublingual use, their products are highly recommended by Ergogenic Health (the site that promotes 5A1MQ).

I'd really like to hear your results from 5A1MQ. I'd probably try it myself once I start cutting, but that price point is insane .

 

[Deprived]

Happy to revisit this and give my input. Brilliant thread! We need more anecdotes in here about what works and what doesn't. I know GHK-cu is expensive, but it seems like @Alarico8, @ExtraChromasome and I were the only 3 users who used it. Imo it worked best for me for skinmaxxing overall. Very expensive too. I'm using Argireline, Niacinamide and Retin-A at the moment. Trying 5A1MQ soon for 4 months and will see whether it has an effect on my skin quality.

From everything I've tried, I really believe a consistent healthy sleep schedule, diet with fatty fish, intermittent fasting, keeping stress low and not drinking much alcohol helps the most. Moisturising your skin too and avoiding UV damage too. I haven't been doing Derminator2 and LLLT consistently enough to say whether they help, but I'll trial them again.

S/o to @Cope for adding value to the forum

Are you still in contact with alarico? I lost his discord a while back

 

[Seth Walsh]

Are you still in contact with alarico? I lost his discord a while back

Haven't been in contact since he last posted on here maybe 2yrs+ ago

 

[Seth Walsh]

Is GHK-cu orally bioavailable? BioPrime makes a solution for sublingual use, their products are highly recommended by Ergogenic Health (the site that promotes 5A1MQ).

I'd really like to hear your results from 5A1MQ. I'd probably try it myself once I start cutting, but that price point is insane .

Just started 5A1MQ 2 days ago. Definitely feel a big energy and INSANE libido increase (which was never mentioned). Bumped up to 100mg yday, now back to 50mg coz I didn't feel much difference. I never heard of GHK-cu being taken orally or sublingually tbh. I wouldn't risk it, don't know how bioavailable it would be, if at all

 

[leloucheREBORN]

There's plenty of dupes, check out DRMTLGY or bioBare.

https://m.de.aliexpress.com/item/1005003255835498.html?_randl_currency=EUR&_randl_shipto=DE&src=google&memo1=freelisting&gbraid=0AAAAADznYb8b2jdtPVnbIKLyXyM6Z0z0g&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Google_7_shopping&albagn=888888&isSmbAutoCall=false&needSmbHouyi=false&albcp=12554800262&albag=127990761348&trgt=1284054470089&crea=de1005003255835498&netw=u&device=m&albpg=1284054470089&albpd=de1005003255835498&gbraid=0AAAAADznYb8b2jdtPVnbIKLyXyM6Z0z0g&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3K6D4Kv09gIVS-h3Ch0t8geSEAQYAiABEgKUOvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&aff_fcid=a7f0efb497a94fa7870d4380c0eb0dc7-1648866880833-04387-UneMJZVf&aff_fsk=UneMJZVf&aff_platform=aaf&sk=UneMJZVf&aff_trace_key=a7f0efb497a94fa7870d4380c0eb0dc7-1648866880833-04387-UneMJZVf&terminal_id=e4a026e3220d465296b78638af0b6264&afSmartRedirect=y

 

[Baldingman1998]

copy what Win200 and do, that's all you need for collagen maxing

rather look at people that actually look insanely young at their age than to believe in bought bogus research

So what did he do? I can't read korean

 

[Deprived]

copy what Win200 and do, that's all you need for collagen maxing

rather look at people that actually look insanely young at their age than to believe in bought bogus research

Asians age better in general

 

[Deleted member 18808]

Would generic HGH provide more smooth skin than GHK-CU? And can the other peptides like the matrixls be injected instead of topical? I am tired of topical treatments, my skin simply cannot handle even tretinoin or benzoyl peroxide, I used them for an entire year and although they treat acne I had red irritated skin nonstop. I just want collagen now and am looking for alternative methods, specifically injectables.

 

[Mr.cope]

Tldr

 

[Cope]

Would generic HGH provide more smooth skin than GHK-CU? And can the other peptides like the matrixls be injected instead of topical? I am tired of topical treatments, my skin simply cannot handle even tretinoin or benzoyl peroxide, I used them for an entire year and although they treat acne I had red irritated skin nonstop. I just want collagen now and am looking for alternative methods, specifically injectables.

Really not the best MoA, haven't heard any good results from people injecting cosmetic peptides.

I would look into CO2 fractional lasering. I personally wouldn't do it tbh, not when a skincare routine that specifically promotes collagen would yield less side effects.

Sourcing a high concentration of topical GHK-cu would be my recommendation. Either that or buying Syn-Coll.

 

[AscendingHero]

Sourcing a high concentration of topical GHK-cu would be my recommendation. Either that or buying Syn-Coll.

Any sources for GHK-cu? i plan on taking both

anything that improves collagen should help with undertones right? if not what will?


Also thoughts on very high strenght tret? ive sene people touting it as a good exfoliator?

which exfoliator do you use/recommend too bro?

 

[Cope]

Any sources for GHK-cu? i plan on taking both

anything that improves collagen should help with undertones right? if not what will?


Also thoughts on very high strenght tret? ive sene people touting it as a good exfoliator?

which exfoliator do you use/recommend too bro?

0.14% Tretinoin is goated bruh . I already have model tier skin after using this percentage for a week . You gotta take the Curologypill.

It's a very good exfoliator! Glycolic acid is of course the best AHA exfoliator. You can't really go wrong brand wise, just make sure it's very high concentration like 20%+.

 

[poopmaster22]

Oh so you cannot inject ghk cu? I was just curious because I see that one and cjc ipa get pushed for good skin peptides injection wise. I had no idea you couldn’t inject them

 

[Cope]

Oh so you cannot inject ghk cu? I was just curious because I see that one and cjc ipa get pushed for good skin peptides injection wise. I had no idea you couldn’t inject them

Not sure if retarded but you obviously can, but topical usage would give you better results.

 

[poopmaster22]

Not sure if retarded but you obviously can, but topical usage would give you better results.

Oh okay well I thought ghk cu injected can lead to overdose of copper? I’d rather inject anyway but may do cjc I’ve heard it is better. Also I am sped

 

[Cope]

Oh okay well I thought ghk cu injected can lead to overdose of copper? I’d rather inject anyway but may do cjc I’ve heard it is better. Also I am sped

Idk why you would think a GHRH is better when cosmetic peptides exist. Collagen gains, if any, would be temporary.

 

[poopmaster22]

Idk why you would think a GHRH is better when cosmetic peptides exist. Collagen gains, if any, would be temporary.

Idk some “bio hacker” told me that

 

[Cope]

Ok guys, how do I try to regain good skin collagen, after a corticosteroid course on my nose only (4 weeks betamethasone) destroyed collagen for the entire face ?

Has your collagen recovered at all since doing this?

I use Clobetasol propionate, the most powerful corticosteroid on the market, pretty often. Especially recently since I'm on 0.14% Curology Tretinoin, the highest percentage commercial available.

Wasted money. In vitro and in vivo differs. Spend the money on microneedling, chemical peel or laser, which is proven to boost collagen, boost looks. In real life. All you quote is lab crap, that is in vitro.

I still can't believe this fag thinks lasers are a viable option when the average cost of Fraxel is $1575 for ONE SESSION and these are the "absolutely mindblowing results" you get:

Here nasolabial folds got worse and now looks older, damn Fraxel must be the best procedure ever existed!

Holy shit, his acne scarring is now totally non-existent! He looks like a completely different person now!

I am in complete and utter disbelief, this girl ascended! The amazing powers of Fraxel lasers made her look... exactly the fucking same

Brb bro just gonna spend almost 10 grand for 6 sessions and achieve absolutely... nothing.

 

[poopmaster22]

Anyone ever heard of rubylux? They sell a mask with like 6 lasers. Thinking of buying unless scam

 

[Deprived]

I don't get transforming growth factor beta cytokine. In your post and other sources they say it's production stimulates collagen synthesis.

But other sources claim it has antagonistic effects on skin appearance, blocking the conversion of dermal fibroblasts into fat cells causing loss of subcutaneous fat. Wikipedia says increased signaling levels leads to inflammation and cancer. Also ROS leads to increased signaling as well.

Idk how proteins work or anything but I think a lack of and over-signaling of tgf-beta is bad for the body in general

 

[looksseg]

Which products would you prioritize to take? The really most importants

For now I use sunscreen all the time, this along to good genetics in aging, make people think that I’m really much younger than I’m actually am

 

[Cope]

I don't get transforming growth factor beta cytokine. In your post and other sources they say it's production stimulates collagen synthesis.

But other sources claim it has antagonistic effects on skin appearance, blocking the conversion of dermal fibroblasts into fat cells causing loss of subcutaneous fat. Wikipedia says increased signaling levels leads to inflammation and cancer. Also ROS leads to increased signaling as well.

Idk how proteins work or anything but I think a lack of and over-signaling of tgf-beta is bad for the body in general

Yea, I only bought royal jelly extract once and didn't get any effects so I never repurchased. I don't recommend supplementing anything anymore in the hopes of promoting collagen, it just doesn't work that way. Definitely don't risk taking anything that might increase inflammation.

Which products would you prioritize to take? The really most importants

For now I use sunscreen all the time, this along to good genetics in aging, make people think that I’m really much younger than I’m actually am

Tretinoin ofc, and ideally you want to use the highest concentration possible. I currently use Curology 0.14% Tret.

Vitamin C E Ferulic Acid serum is definitely an essential. It helps with collagen and elasticity and also protects the skin from free radicals. I get mine from Timeless.

Also getting a pH cleanser, a good moisturizer that can repair the skin moisture barrier, and a sunscreen with a high PA rating are all important.

 

[Deleted member 17244]

@Cope what do u think about resveratrol from The Ordinary? I don't have money for vit C serum from Skinceuticals or Timeless

 

[Cope]

@Cope what do u think about resveratrol from The Ordinary? I don't have money for vit C serum from Skinceuticals or Timeless

Yea it's not a bad choice, just bought some after my Vitamin C serum ran out.

It's an antioxidant serum, so if you live in an area where you deal with a lot of free radicals I'd get it. Good price too, only $9.

 

[Deleted member 17244]

Yea it's not a bad choice, just bought some after my Vitamin C serum ran out.

It's an antioxidant serum, so if you live in an area where you deal with a lot of free radicals I'd get it. Good price too, only $9.

I live in smh like that. Better cover my face with kevlar rather than cope with serums lmao

 

[Cope]

I live in smh like that. Better cover my face with kevlar rather than cope with serums lmao

lol You need antioxidant support though regardless. If you don't use it you will die from inceldom.

 

[Deleted member 17244]

lol You need antioxidant support though regardless. If you don't use it you will die from inceldom.

basically i'm dying from inceldom atm so dont bother it

 

[Deleted member 17244]

@Cope tbh does vit C serum make sense using it for the sake of prevention aging? No data to proof it. Evidence says vit C can reduce burden of sun damage, but if you are not retarded, hence using your SPF, avoiding excessive amount of sun would vit C help at all? I say this because it's really hard to formulate due to lack of stability, absorption even with ferulic acid and vit E. What's your thought about it bro?