Debunking Deca

[20/04/2008]

why is a deca base cycle better than testosterone base? Well, for one it brings an alternative to a hormone replacement base in a steroid cycle. As it has been used for androgen deficiency studies in males. And has been used as such solo without testosterone in HIV aids males for this very purpose. Why is deca used over test? Well because simply it provided better benefits, muscle growth, fewer side effects and reports of better quality of life.

(Remember every drug that came after test was meant to have less side effects and more anabolic effects exept some exeptions fluoxymesterone was made before testosterone and equipose and trenbolone were made for animal not humans, and superdrol and trestolone dhb are new drugs so they don’t count)

Majority of guys fear anabolics due to the side effects such as hair loss, gynecomastia, water retention, acne, acne scars and even the emotional sides. So they search for safer alternatives a lot of the times which usually doesn’t end up bringing the results either.

Deca, simply put from real-world results such as from bodybuilders from the 60s to late 80s, Mike menzter, Robby Robinson, Danny padilla and countless more many great names, As well from studies shows us how little the sides from it truly are in regards to the aforementioned sides above. Hair loss, Gynecomastia, Acne you just did not see it back then.

Hair loss? Science wise near impossible unless very high doses. Real-world results wise? I have seen guys regrow hair on reedit after switching from test to deca .



Gynecomastia? Science-wise gynecomastia is due to an off androgen to estrogen ratio. And deca science wise simply put is always in a very favorable ratio. Real-world results wise? I’ve never seen it happened even with guys that were prone to gyno off less than 100mg of testosterone yet could use again multiple grams of deca with ZERO estrogenic symptoms. The only times I have seen this happened was with guys using shady sources where I got them to test their product and lab work to reveal they had testosterone not deca in their product. Which surprisingly happens i guess so disclaimer if you can afford it always test your shit especially drugs that are expensive.



Acne? Real-world results and science wise we just do not see it happen. Nothing more to be said here.

Water retention? A study showed there was no fluid increase on this drug and bodybuilders in the 60s to late 80s used this drug as a contest prep drug as well, and so have my followers and clients. It is a very lean drug and many would compare it to a weaker tren. Dr. Robert Kerr who treated many bodybuilders in 70s 80s also reports this to be a dry drug with no water retention and is a great contest prep drug.

Deca shuts your testosterone down? Of course it does, all steroids do. What matters is we replace this drug with an androgen that can support our male functions. Dianabol, Deca (nandrolone), Equipoise all fit that bill. The big reason being here is they are all androgens that also convert to estrogen. Which is needed for androgens to even work on the androgen receptor period. This is why DHT drugs will not work as a base. Studies show without estrogen DHT drugs solo can make animals very timid and loss of sex drive, gain body fat and insulin resistance and even digestion goes down the drain due to estrogen being needed for pancreatic function on enzymes for digestion.

Prolactin? Well, zero studies have ever shown deca to ever raise prolactin, not a single one ever. And the only study showing us this shows it lowered prolactin compared to testosterone raising it. So deca lowers prolactin.

Libido loss? Never been heard of by any old pro bodybuilder when this was a staple as a base without testosterone, nor has a single report ever been recorded by the world health organization either unlike testosterone. The issue here is when testosterone use became popular and added to the mix. Deca simply put will make the side effect galore drug testosterone even worse. Helping aromatization of testosterone to estrogen and receptor sensitivity. Making testosterone an even worse drug leading to more sides such as libido loss. Again not a single study on deca used solo has ever reported it causing any sort of libido loss. And it has been used many times solo.

Conclusion. Why use testosterone, why when so many get sides off even 100mg of testosterone. Gynecomastia, bloating, acne, hair loss, for what? It isn’t needed to replace male function, seminal vessel health, prostate health, etc. Deca can do this and better at it for what we are doing here. We are not using anabolics for just a replacement effect. And if you are, then this topic isn’t for you and no need to consider anything but your TRT. When a bodybuilder or someone looking for an anabolic effect we are looking at using something that is above normal ranges for a purpose. And that purpose mainly is anabolism. Go and run 500mg of testosterone and your estrogen goes x5 the normal range. And prolactin all also goes up. Leading to all of our lovely sides that we now need to run Anti Aromatize drugs at high doses, which worsen heart, bone health and cause hair loss by themselves. Yet when we go and run 500mg of an anabolic drug like deca, we now have the effect we want, a high dose of anabolism. Yet our secondary hormone profiles are at a normal dose range similar to that using a TRT dose base of testosterone.

Can one run a test base say 100mg with an anabolic like deca as your main drug, such as 100mg testosterone with 500mg plus of deca? Sure. But I am sure many of you have read online and have experienced for yourself, countless users get side effects off even just 100mg of testosterone. Then this might not be the option for you when deca can replace all of your needs without the side effects.

simply put there is no need for testosterone or testosterone at high doses.

Tags : @Clavicular
@Dyorotic
@MA_ascender
@Jonas2k7
@Sapieeen
@NZb6Air
@ConfusedBolivian
@androgenic

 

[MA_ascender]

usually people take deca + low dose dbol right? for hrt

 

[Jonas2k7]

Good thread

 

[idkwhattoputhere]

Good thread i’ve been decapilled for two years now thanks to dtren. Too young for permanent hrt but in a year i’m hopping on

 

[meathead]

Nandrolone and Trenbolone​

Manifold Health Risks​

• Nandrolone is 11 times more damaging to blood vessels than Testosterone, causes longstanding changes in the brain reward system, adversely impacts learning and memory, and induces genetic damage across multiple organ systems.

Long-term suppression​

• 19-nor compounds Trenbolone and Nandrolone—excluding Trestolone (MENT), which has a half-life of forty minutes and is twice as fast to recover from as Testosterone itself—are highly suppressive for up to 12–18 months. No one should take Nandrolone or other 19-nor compounds unless they're already on blast and cruise (BnC), because full recovery from PCT will be rendered largely ineffective.
• Trenbolone metabolizes into 17α-Trenbolone, 17β-Trenbolone and Trendione. Each of these compounds are able to convert into one another, which substantially prolongs the elimination time.
• Long term perturbation of HPTA axis, endocrine and cholesterol levels after discontinuing AAS

Even after six months LH and FSH were both suppressed. Some individuals had a sustained suppression of LH and FSH for a period of 1 year. LH and FSH recovery was correlated to the urinary level of the Nandrolone metabolite 19-Norandrosterone (19-NA). 19-NA was detectable for several months after the last Nandrolone administration. There was a large variation between individuals‘ excretion rate. Some individuals still tested positive a full year after their last dose, with continuing suppression of HPTA axis gonadotropins, LH and FSH.

Neurodegeneration​

• 17β-trenbolone, an AAS as well as an environmental hormone, contributes to Neurodegeneration

Genetic damage​

• Nandrolone Decanoate Induces Genetic Damage in Multiple Organs

Cardiovascular system​

• Nandrolone 11× more damaging to blood vessels than Testosterone

Reward system dysfunction​

• Chronic Nandrolone administration induces dysfunction of the reward pathway
• Effects of AAS on brain reward function
• Impact of Nandrolone Decanoate on the CNS
• Anxiogenic effects of Nandrolone Decanoate (ND)

Cognitive deficits​

• AAS use has impact on memory
• Cognitive Deficits in AAS Users
• Brain Imaging Study Suggests Long-Term AAS Use Can Lead to Significant Brain Structural and Functional Abnormalities
• Brain and Cognition Abnormalities in Long-Term AAS Users
• AAS cause longstanding changes in the brain
• Voluntary exercise does not ameliorate spatial learning and memory deficits induced by chronic administration of Nandrolone Decanoate in rats

Chronic exposure to Nandrolone Decanoate (ND) in supraphysiological doses is associated with learning and memory impairments. Nandrolone impaired spatial learning and memory, and this effect was not rescued by exercise. The harmful effects of ND and other AAS on learning and memory should be taken into account when athletes decide to use AAS for performance or body image improvement.

 

[20/04/2008]

Nandrolone and Trenbolone​

Manifold Health Risks​

• Nandrolone is 11 times more damaging to blood vessels than Testosterone, causes longstanding changes in the brain reward system, adversely impacts learning and memory, and induces genetic damage across multiple organ systems.

Long-term suppression​

• 19-nor compounds Trenbolone and Nandrolone—excluding Trestolone (MENT), which has a half-life of forty minutes and is twice as fast to recover from as Testosterone itself—are highly suppressive for up to 12–18 months. No one should take Nandrolone or other 19-nor compounds unless they're already on blast and cruise (BnC), because full recovery from PCT will be rendered largely ineffective.
• Trenbolone metabolizes into 17α-Trenbolone, 17β-Trenbolone and Trendione. Each of these compounds are able to convert into one another, which substantially prolongs the elimination time.
• Long term perturbation of HPTA axis, endocrine and cholesterol levels after discontinuing AAS

Neurodegeneration​

• 17β-trenbolone, an AAS as well as an environmental hormone, contributes to Neurodegeneration

Genetic damage​

• Nandrolone Decanoate Induces Genetic Damage in Multiple Organs

Cardiovascular system​

• Nandrolone 11× more damaging to blood vessels than Testosterone

Reward system dysfunction​

• Chronic Nandrolone administration induces dysfunction of the reward pathway
• Effects of AAS on brain reward function
• Impact of Nandrolone Decanoate on the CNS
• Anxiogenic effects of Nandrolone Decanoate (ND)

Cognitive deficits​

• AAS use has impact on memory
• Cognitive Deficits in AAS Users
• Brain Imaging Study Suggests Long-Term AAS Use Can Lead to Significant Brain Structural and Functional Abnormalities
• Brain and Cognition Abnormalities in Long-Term AAS Users
• AAS cause longstanding changes in the brain
• Voluntary exercise does not ameliorate spatial learning and memory deficits induced by chronic administration of Nandrolone Decanoate in rats

Cognitive and suppression are in all steroids
Stop using gpt or ill spit in your anus

 

[meathead]

Cognitive and suppression are in all steroids
Stop using gpt or ill spit in your anus

isnt gpt and u gonna ignore the rest?

 

[TitusA]

why is a deca base cycle better than testosterone base? Well, for one it brings an alternative to a hormone replacement base in a steroid cycle. As it has been used for androgen deficiency studies in males. And has been used as such solo without testosterone in HIV aids males for this very purpose. Why is deca used over test? Well because simply it provided better benefits, muscle growth, fewer side effects and reports of better quality of life.

(Remember every drug that came after test was meant to have less side effects and more anabolic effects exept some exeptions fluoxymesterone was made before testosterone and equipose and trenbolone were made for animal not humans, and superdrol and trestolone dhb are new drugs so they don’t count)

Majority of guys fear anabolics due to the side effects such as hair loss, gynecomastia, water retention, acne, acne scars and even the emotional sides. So they search for safer alternatives a lot of the times which usually doesn’t end up bringing the results either.

Deca, simply put from real-world results such as from bodybuilders from the 60s to late 80s, Mike menzter, Robby Robinson, Danny padilla and countless more many great names, As well from studies shows us how little the sides from it truly are in regards to the aforementioned sides above. Hair loss, Gynecomastia, Acne you just did not see it back then.

Hair loss? Science wise near impossible unless very high doses. Real-world results wise? I have seen guys regrow hair on reedit after switching from test to deca .



Gynecomastia? Science-wise gynecomastia is due to an off androgen to estrogen ratio. And deca science wise simply put is always in a very favorable ratio. Real-world results wise? I’ve never seen it happened even with guys that were prone to gyno off less than 100mg of testosterone yet could use again multiple grams of deca with ZERO estrogenic symptoms. The only times I have seen this happened was with guys using shady sources where I got them to test their product and lab work to reveal they had testosterone not deca in their product. Which surprisingly happens i guess so disclaimer if you can afford it always test your shit especially drugs that are expensive.



Acne? Real-world results and science wise we just do not see it happen. Nothing more to be said here.

Water retention? A study showed there was no fluid increase on this drug and bodybuilders in the 60s to late 80s used this drug as a contest prep drug as well, and so have my followers and clients. It is a very lean drug and many would compare it to a weaker tren. Dr. Robert Kerr who treated many bodybuilders in 70s 80s also reports this to be a dry drug with no water retention and is a great contest prep drug.

Deca shuts your testosterone down? Of course it does, all steroids do. What matters is we replace this drug with an androgen that can support our male functions. Dianabol, Deca (nandrolone), Equipoise all fit that bill. The big reason being here is they are all androgens that also convert to estrogen. Which is needed for androgens to even work on the androgen receptor period. This is why DHT drugs will not work as a base. Studies show without estrogen DHT drugs solo can make animals very timid and loss of sex drive, gain body fat and insulin resistance and even digestion goes down the drain due to estrogen being needed for pancreatic function on enzymes for digestion.

Prolactin? Well, zero studies have ever shown deca to ever raise prolactin, not a single one ever. And the only study showing us this shows it lowered prolactin compared to testosterone raising it. So deca lowers prolactin.

Libido loss? Never been heard of by any old pro bodybuilder when this was a staple as a base without testosterone, nor has a single report ever been recorded by the world health organization either unlike testosterone. The issue here is when testosterone use became popular and added to the mix. Deca simply put will make the side effect galore drug testosterone even worse. Helping aromatization of testosterone to estrogen and receptor sensitivity. Making testosterone an even worse drug leading to more sides such as libido loss. Again not a single study on deca used solo has ever reported it causing any sort of libido loss. And it has been used many times solo.

Conclusion. Why use testosterone, why when so many get sides off even 100mg of testosterone. Gynecomastia, bloating, acne, hair loss, for what? It isn’t needed to replace male function, seminal vessel health, prostate health, etc. Deca can do this and better at it for what we are doing here. We are not using anabolics for just a replacement effect. And if you are, then this topic isn’t for you and no need to consider anything but your TRT. When a bodybuilder or someone looking for an anabolic effect we are looking at using something that is above normal ranges for a purpose. And that purpose mainly is anabolism. Go and run 500mg of testosterone and your estrogen goes x5 the normal range. And prolactin all also goes up. Leading to all of our lovely sides that we now need to run Anti Aromatize drugs at high doses, which worsen heart, bone health and cause hair loss by themselves. Yet when we go and run 500mg of an anabolic drug like deca, we now have the effect we want, a high dose of anabolism. Yet our secondary hormone profiles are at a normal dose range similar to that using a TRT dose base of testosterone.

Can one run a test base say 100mg with an anabolic like deca as your main drug, such as 100mg testosterone with 500mg plus of deca? Sure. But I am sure many of you have read online and have experienced for yourself, countless users get side effects off even just 100mg of testosterone. Then this might not be the option for you when deca can replace all of your needs without the side effects.

simply put there is no need for testosterone or testosterone at high doses.

Tags : @Clavicular
@Dyorotic
@MA_ascender
@Jonas2k7
@Sapieeen
@NZb6Air
@ConfusedBolivian
@androgenic

It raises prolactin for sure frankly. Allot of the things you attribute to deca aren't the results of deca at all. You say no water retention in 60s to 80s guys before contests. Guys routinely ran dianabol pre contest and anadrol pre contest and got no water retention because you dont when carbs/glycogen/water is that low. Also guys ran drastically lower doses of drugs in general then so of course they are still likely to have hair and good skin.

How many study's have been done on the kind of doses a person would be using in a none medical setting? You need atleast 10-20 studies at recreational doses to prove it doesnt cause prolactin increase.

Also im rly skeptical countless users get side effects off 100mg of testosterone lol. Please when ur taking about studies in the future post them. Im not anti deca if that works for you great but I used the high doses of anadrol, tren, superdrol, test and got no bad sides apart from bad cholesterol. Frankly allot of the steroid side effects like acne etc are exaggerated. Now im on test 180mg with dutasteride (which would increase my estrogen but yet I have no water retention).

Again if Deca works for u great but I find it unlikely that you have allot of study's on the recreational doses that gym goers and bbers take. Theirs always trade offs and I think your either wilfully ignoring Decas or you haven't looked into the anecdotal data enough (because the reality is when using steroids outside of a medical setting you are dependant on anecdotes and self experiment most of the time)

 

[20/04/2008]

It raises prolactin for sure frankly. Allot of the things you attribute to deca aren't the results of deca at all. You say no water retention in 60s to 80s guys before contests. Guys routinely ran dianabol pre contest and anadrol pre contest and got no water retention because you dont when carbs/glycogen/water is that low. Also guys ran drastically lower doses of drugs in general then so of course they are still likely to have hair and good skin.

How many study's have been done on the kind of doses a person would be using in a none medical setting? You need atleast 10-20 studies at recreational doses to prove it doesnt cause prolactin increase.

Also im rly skeptical countless users get side effects off 100mg of testosterone lol. Please when ur taking about studies in the future post them. Im not anti deca if that works for you great but I used the high doses of anadrol, tren, superdrol, test and got no bad sides apart from bad cholesterol. Frankly allot of the steroid side effects like acne etc are exaggerated. Now im on test 180mg with dutasteride (which would increase my estrogen but yet I have no water retention).

Again if Deca works for u great but I find it unlikely that you have allot of study's on the recreational doses that gym goers and bbers take. Theirs always trade offs and I think your either wilfully ignoring Decas or you haven't looked into the anecdotal data enough (because the reality is when using steroids outside of a medical setting you are dependant on anecdotes and self experiment most of the time)

It improves sensitivity to prolactin
Run deca only cycle (test it incase) if your prolactin goes up significantly im the biggest fraud of org and you have the right to insult my ass
I don’t post studies cause its retarded if you want some pm me cause the high iq are mf that steal my work and diss me in the comments and the low iq ones suck their cock and continue harrasing me
I don’t use deca currently but would after 19-20 cause it fuck with your seretonin transmitter in the brain
But deca = best hrt protocol
Uhm for libido not optimal but your dick would still work even better if you were hypogonadol before

 

[20/04/2008]

It raises prolactin for sure frankly. Allot of the things you attribute to deca aren't the results of deca at all. You say no water retention in 60s to 80s guys before contests. Guys routinely ran dianabol pre contest and anadrol pre contest and got no water retention because you dont when carbs/glycogen/water is that low. Also guys ran drastically lower doses of drugs in general then so of course they are still likely to have hair and good skin.

How many study's have been done on the kind of doses a person would be using in a none medical setting? You need atleast 10-20 studies at recreational doses to prove it doesnt cause prolactin increase.

Also im rly skeptical countless users get side effects off 100mg of testosterone lol. Please when ur taking about studies in the future post them. Im not anti deca if that works for you great but I used the high doses of anadrol, tren, superdrol, test and got no bad sides apart from bad cholesterol. Frankly allot of the steroid side effects like acne etc are exaggerated. Now im on test 180mg with dutasteride (which would increase my estrogen but yet I have no water retention).

Again if Deca works for u great but I find it unlikely that you have allot of study's on the recreational doses that gym goers and bbers take. Theirs always trade offs and I think your either wilfully ignoring Decas or you haven't looked into the anecdotal data enough (because the reality is when using steroids outside of a medical setting you are dependant on anecdotes and self experiment most of the time)

Also arnold was stated to take dbol like candy
And he was using doses that scared the other participants
He was using dbol as a test deriv
Primo as a dht deriv
Deca as a 19 nor
That why he was dry good skin no hairloss no gyno
I mean he was a powerlifter and powerlifter in the 70 s just used what they can get their hand son if yiu watch podcast of youtuber about weighlifting youll know romanian weighlifters used bottle of dbol pre contest

 

[20/04/2008]

It raises prolactin for sure frankly. Allot of the things you attribute to deca aren't the results of deca at all. You say no water retention in 60s to 80s guys before contests. Guys routinely ran dianabol pre contest and anadrol pre contest and got no water retention because you dont when carbs/glycogen/water is that low. Also guys ran drastically lower doses of drugs in general then so of course they are still likely to have hair and good skin.

How many study's have been done on the kind of doses a person would be using in a none medical setting? You need atleast 10-20 studies at recreational doses to prove it doesnt cause prolactin increase.

Also im rly skeptical countless users get side effects off 100mg of testosterone lol. Please when ur taking about studies in the future post them. Im not anti deca if that works for you great but I used the high doses of anadrol, tren, superdrol, test and got no bad sides apart from bad cholesterol. Frankly allot of the steroid side effects like acne etc are exaggerated. Now im on test 180mg with dutasteride (which would increase my estrogen but yet I have no water retention).

Again if Deca works for u great but I find it unlikely that you have allot of study's on the recreational doses that gym goers and bbers take. Theirs always trade offs and I think your either wilfully ignoring Decas or you haven't looked into the anecdotal data enough (because the reality is when using steroids outside of a medical setting you are dependant on anecdotes and self experiment most of the time)

For me dut is cope but do whtv you want
Superdrol is the only steroid that have been shown to cause serious liver health issues
Personally bever got any side effect of gear exept joint pain

 

[20/04/2008]

isnt gpt and u gonna ignore the rest?

Water jfl

 

[20/04/2008]

1. Introduction

1. Using rat tests, 4-week treatment with nandrolone was shown to produce an anxious phenotype in rodents[1].
2. But several studies have confirmed a depressive phenotype from deca that is dissimilar from testosterone.

1. Chronic (4-week) nandrolone treatment has been shown to induce a reduction in sweet-taste (sucralose) preference, which is an indicator of anhedonia[2].

1. Note that SSRIs increase sucralose preference in rats.
2. Serotonin, noradrenaline, and dopamine levels in the nucleus acumens (which transmits dopamine while the animal eats sucralose) were all reduced.

1. 6 week nandrolone treatment decreased NPY neuron availability in the hippocampus and decrease NPY blood levels, which are thought to associate well with pituitary NPY levels[3].

1. NPY expression is lower in the depressed.

1. 4-week treatment with nandrolone produced a depressive and anhedonic state associated with increased activating of the kynurenine pathway, an alternate metabolism for tryptophan[4].

1. Tryptophan is mainly catabolized by the kynurenine pathway which yields neuroactive compounds including kynurenine.
2. An alternate metabolism for tryptophan is towards serotonin, which has consistently been lowered in deca users.

1. Study Design[5]

1. 18 rats were divided into control, deca, and test.
2. Deca and test given injections every 3rd day for 18 days.
3. Blood levels, behavior, and brain matter were analysed.

1. Results:

1. The majority of alterations were region specific to the hypothalamus:
2. Nandrolone more than testosterone upregulates mRNA transcription of the oxytocin receptor gene.
3. Oxytocin regulates food intake and sexual behavior.
4. In this study on rats, nandrolone decanoate rats experienced less body weight gain than control or testosterone undecanoate rats.

1. It forms a complex with dopaminergic neurons.

1. The effect of oxytocin injection on behavioral changes in rats is inhibited by the dopamine antagonist haloperidol and partially abolished by the MOR antagonist naloxone[6].

1. Oxytocin transmission occurs after stressful events.
2. Oxytocin receptors, neurons, and levels are found to be increased in the depressed.

1. Nandrolone and testosterone also upregulated the neuropeptide Y 1 and 5 receptor expression in the hypothalamus, and NPY is also thought to regulate food intake.

1. Nandrolone upregulated the 1R less and 5R more.

1. The authors predict that this effect is AR dependent, as it occurs more in deca than test groups but occurs in both and deca has a higher affinity for the androgen receptor.

1. Deca only produces less effect on pubic and scalp AR due to being transformed by 5AR into a weaker androgen.
2. Previously, oxytocin genes were shown to be regulated by AR expression in the hypothalamus.

1. Stress hormone levels:

1. Adrenocorticotropic hormone was reduced more in the deca group than the test group, but both lower than control.
2. Corticosterone was reduced in the testosterone group but increased from control in the deca group.
3. This is the rat equivalent of cortisol. Deca increases cortisol from baseline.

1. Behavior:

1. Deca group gained less bodyweight.
2. Deca group moved less, overall.
3. It was previously shown that testosterone could increase movement, where deca decreased it[7].

1. Takeaways

1. Deca consistently produces a depressive phenotype in rats, though it inconsistently produces an anxious phenotype.
2. Anhedonic people tend to complain, while anxious people tend to switch the subject a lot.
3. Alterations in the oxytocin, neuropeptide y, and monoamine pathways may explain these changes.

Deca Worsens Blood Sugar Control​

1. Introduction
2. It is known that GH worsens insulin sensitivity and produces full-fledged diabetes in acromegalics.
3. Physiologic testosterone improves lipolysis and insulin sensitivity.
4. What about supraphysiologic amounts of steroids? Historical studies have exhibited worsened glucose metabolism.
5. In this study, we examine the effects of supraphysiologic doses on the metabolisms of rats.

1. Design

1. Rats in a control, low dose deca, and high dose deca group.

1. Results

1. Body composition:
2. Deca treatment increased muscle mass and water content.
3. Deca treatment decreased total fat mass but not visceral fat (only IM and SubQ).

1. Insulin resistance in muscle:

1. OGTT tests were the same, but reduced skeletal muscle uptake in response to insulin was found with deca.
2. Specific muscle insulin insensitivity (metformin?).

1. Serum levels:

1. Serum glucose levels are lower in the deca group.
2. However, serum insulin levels are higher, implying a potential role for deca directly at the pancreas.

1. Glucose production while fasting:

1. Glucose can be produced by glycolysis of glycerol from fat tissue or from gluconeogenesis.
2. Deca treatment increases glycerol, potentially due to triglyceride breakdown or impaired gluconeogenesis.
3. High dose deca impaired gluconeogenesis (from glycerol, lactate, or amino acids).

1. Insulin resistance at the liver:

1. Liver glycogen levels are also lower.
2. Liver glucokinase also decreased.

1. It is unclear how these changes occur, suggestions made:

1. Reduced glucocorticoid activity.
2. Reduced thyroid activity.

---

[1] Rosic, G., Joksimovic, J., Selakovic, D., Milovanovic, D., & Jakovljevic, V. (2014). Anxiogenic effects of chronic exposure to nandrolone decanoate (ND) at supraphysiological dose in rats: a brief report. Neuroendocrinol Lett, 35(703), 10.
[2] Zotti, M., Tucci, P., Colaianna, M., Morgese, M. G., Mhillaj, E., Schiavone, S., ... & Trabace, L. (2014). Chronic nandrolone administration induces dysfunction of the reward pathway in rats. Steroids, 79, 7-13.
[3] Joksimovic, J., Selakovic, D., Matovic, M., Zaletel, I., Puskas, N., & Rosic, G. (2017). The role of neuropeptide-Y in nandrolone decanoate-induced attenuation of antidepressant effect of exercise. PLoS One, 12(6), e0178922.
[4] Souza, L. C., de Brito, M. L. O., Jesse, C. R., Boeira, S. P., de Gomes, M. G., Goes, A. T. R., ... & Nogueira, C. W. (2020). Involvement of kynurenine pathway in depressive-like behaviour induced by nandrolone decanoate in mice. Steroids, 164, 108727.
[5] Zelleroth, S., Nylander, E., Kjellgren, E., Grönbladh, A., & Hallberg, M. (2022). Nandrolone decanoate and testosterone undecanoate differently affect stress hormones, neurotransmitter systems, and general activity in the male rat. Behavioural Brain Research, 432, 113971.
[6] Drago, F., Pedersen, C. A., Caldwell, J. D., & Prange Jr, A. J. (1986). Oxytocin potently enhances novelty-induced grooming behavior in the rat. Brain research, 368(2), 287-295.
[7] McGinnis, M. Y., Lumia, A. R., Tetel, M. J., Molenda-Figueira, H. A., & Possidente, B. (2007). Effects of anabolic androgenic steroids on the development and expression of running wheel activity and circadian rhythms in male rats. Physiology & behavior, 92(5), 1010-1018.

isnt gpt and u gonna ignore the rest?

Here is some more i read all of the deca is shit studies and i still think its good
You know what they share in common all of them have atleast 1 big failo
Aslong your above 21 i would still reccomend deca over testosterone

 

[meathead]

even besides the studies so many people reported a worsening of their mental health, lack of motivation

recommending deca or test is stupid

 

[20/04/2008]

even besides the studies so many people reported a worsening of their mental health, lack of motivation

recommending deca or test is stupid

Well why did you even comment
Just say gear is hit and leave
Nothing in life is free
Equivalent exchange you give something you get something thats how life goes

 

[meathead]

bro im not saying gear is shit, im using it myself


if u wanna use deca then just do it but dont pretend that its better then test


putting anecdotal evidence from the 80s above all studies and modern anecdotal evidence is beyond retarded

 

[20/04/2008]

bro im not saying gear is shit, im using it myself


if u wanna use deca then just do it but dont pretend that its better then test


putting anecdotal evidence from the 80s above all studies and modern anecdotal evidence is beyond retarded

I have studies pm me
Nigga when i post studies they aren’t convinced anyway so why bother
Crazy how i get high iq people only when i post shitty thread

 

[meathead]

I have studies pm me
Nigga when i post studies they aren’t convinced anyway so why bother
Crazy how i get high iq people only when i post shitty thread

post them here if u want

 

[20/04/2008]

post them here if u want

Nahh

 

[6ft4]

I loved my short run of only 280mg NPP per week and was seeing way better progress on it than 250mg of test however NPP/Deca fucks me over with cystic acne

 

[20/04/2008]

Cause its more anabolic
280 Npp = 450 test E

I loved my short run of 280mg NPP per week and was seeing way better progress on it than 250mg of test however NPP/Deca fucks me over with cystic acne

 

[6ft4]

Cause its more anabolic
280 Npp = 450 test E

My hair looked much better while on NPP than when I was on any dose of test
The thing about NPP only is that it's recommended to have a way to stimulate estrogen (either take some estrogen or dbol) which I never did but still felt fine.

Muscles also look better on NPP than test

If i could figure out the cause of Deca/NPP giving me acne and find a way to combat it I would choose to go back on it again
Only issue is it stays detectable by tests for giga long if there's ever a situation where you need to be tested

 

[20/04/2008]

My hair looked much better while on NPP than when I was on any dose of test
The thing about NPP only is that it's recommended to have a way to stimulate estrogen (either take some estrogen or dbol) which I never did but still felt fine.

Muscles also look better on NPP than test

If i could figure out the cause of Deca/NPP giving me acne and find a way to combat it I would choose to go back on it again
Only issue is it stays detectable by tests for giga long if there's ever a situation where you need to be tested

Why would you get tested buddyboyos ???
Also i heard people used to fraud deca cause they could always say its natural (you do have small amounts of deca in your body)
Aslong you have natty levesl androgens

 

[6ft4]

Why would you get tested buddyboyos ???
Also i heard people used to fraud deca cause they could always say its natural (you do have small amounts of deca in your body)
Aslong you have natty levesl androgens

If I entered some kind of athletics event at a national level after I ascended via roids that would leave my system quickly

 

[20/04/2008]

If I entered some kind of athletics event at a national level after I ascended via roids that would leave my system quickly

Ohh well that whole other story
You can use a half natty stack

 

[20/04/2008]

why is a deca base cycle better than testosterone base? Well, for one it brings an alternative to a hormone replacement base in a steroid cycle. As it has been used for androgen deficiency studies in males. And has been used as such solo without testosterone in HIV aids males for this very purpose. Why is deca used over test? Well because simply it provided better benefits, muscle growth, fewer side effects and reports of better quality of life.

(Remember every drug that came after test was meant to have less side effects and more anabolic effects exept some exeptions fluoxymesterone was made before testosterone and equipose and trenbolone were made for animal not humans, and superdrol and trestolone dhb are new drugs so they don’t count)

Majority of guys fear anabolics due to the side effects such as hair loss, gynecomastia, water retention, acne, acne scars and even the emotional sides. So they search for safer alternatives a lot of the times which usually doesn’t end up bringing the results either.

Deca, simply put from real-world results such as from bodybuilders from the 60s to late 80s, Mike menzter, Robby Robinson, Danny padilla and countless more many great names, As well from studies shows us how little the sides from it truly are in regards to the aforementioned sides above. Hair loss, Gynecomastia, Acne you just did not see it back then.

Hair loss? Science wise near impossible unless very high doses. Real-world results wise? I have seen guys regrow hair on reedit after switching from test to deca .



Gynecomastia? Science-wise gynecomastia is due to an off androgen to estrogen ratio. And deca science wise simply put is always in a very favorable ratio. Real-world results wise? I’ve never seen it happened even with guys that were prone to gyno off less than 100mg of testosterone yet could use again multiple grams of deca with ZERO estrogenic symptoms. The only times I have seen this happened was with guys using shady sources where I got them to test their product and lab work to reveal they had testosterone not deca in their product. Which surprisingly happens i guess so disclaimer if you can afford it always test your shit especially drugs that are expensive.



Acne? Real-world results and science wise we just do not see it happen. Nothing more to be said here.

Water retention? A study showed there was no fluid increase on this drug and bodybuilders in the 60s to late 80s used this drug as a contest prep drug as well, and so have my followers and clients. It is a very lean drug and many would compare it to a weaker tren. Dr. Robert Kerr who treated many bodybuilders in 70s 80s also reports this to be a dry drug with no water retention and is a great contest prep drug.

Deca shuts your testosterone down? Of course it does, all steroids do. What matters is we replace this drug with an androgen that can support our male functions. Dianabol, Deca (nandrolone), Equipoise all fit that bill. The big reason being here is they are all androgens that also convert to estrogen. Which is needed for androgens to even work on the androgen receptor period. This is why DHT drugs will not work as a base. Studies show without estrogen DHT drugs solo can make animals very timid and loss of sex drive, gain body fat and insulin resistance and even digestion goes down the drain due to estrogen being needed for pancreatic function on enzymes for digestion.

Prolactin? Well, zero studies have ever shown deca to ever raise prolactin, not a single one ever. And the only study showing us this shows it lowered prolactin compared to testosterone raising it. So deca lowers prolactin.

Libido loss? Never been heard of by any old pro bodybuilder when this was a staple as a base without testosterone, nor has a single report ever been recorded by the world health organization either unlike testosterone. The issue here is when testosterone use became popular and added to the mix. Deca simply put will make the side effect galore drug testosterone even worse. Helping aromatization of testosterone to estrogen and receptor sensitivity. Making testosterone an even worse drug leading to more sides such as libido loss. Again not a single study on deca used solo has ever reported it causing any sort of libido loss. And it has been used many times solo.

Conclusion. Why use testosterone, why when so many get sides off even 100mg of testosterone. Gynecomastia, bloating, acne, hair loss, for what? It isn’t needed to replace male function, seminal vessel health, prostate health, etc. Deca can do this and better at it for what we are doing here. We are not using anabolics for just a replacement effect. And if you are, then this topic isn’t for you and no need to consider anything but your TRT. When a bodybuilder or someone looking for an anabolic effect we are looking at using something that is above normal ranges for a purpose. And that purpose mainly is anabolism. Go and run 500mg of testosterone and your estrogen goes x5 the normal range. And prolactin all also goes up. Leading to all of our lovely sides that we now need to run Anti Aromatize drugs at high doses, which worsen heart, bone health and cause hair loss by themselves. Yet when we go and run 500mg of an anabolic drug like deca, we now have the effect we want, a high dose of anabolism. Yet our secondary hormone profiles are at a normal dose range similar to that using a TRT dose base of testosterone.

Can one run a test base say 100mg with an anabolic like deca as your main drug, such as 100mg testosterone with 500mg plus of deca? Sure. But I am sure many of you have read online and have experienced for yourself, countless users get side effects off even just 100mg of testosterone. Then this might not be the option for you when deca can replace all of your needs without the side effects.

simply put there is no need for testosterone or testosterone at high doses.

Tags : @Clavicular
@Dyorotic
@MA_ascender
@Jonas2k7
@Sapieeen
@NZb6Air
@ConfusedBolivian
@androgenic

@halloweed

 

[halloweed]

why is a deca base cycle better than testosterone base? Well, for one it brings an alternative to a hormone replacement base in a steroid cycle. As it has been used for androgen deficiency studies in males. And has been used as such solo without testosterone in HIV aids males for this very purpose. Why is deca used over test? Well because simply it provided better benefits, muscle growth, fewer side effects and reports of better quality of life.

(Remember every drug that came after test was meant to have less side effects and more anabolic effects exept some exeptions fluoxymesterone was made before testosterone and equipose and trenbolone were made for animal not humans, and superdrol and trestolone dhb are new drugs so they don’t count)

Majority of guys fear anabolics due to the side effects such as hair loss, gynecomastia, water retention, acne, acne scars and even the emotional sides. So they search for safer alternatives a lot of the times which usually doesn’t end up bringing the results either.

Deca, simply put from real-world results such as from bodybuilders from the 60s to late 80s, Mike menzter, Robby Robinson, Danny padilla and countless more many great names, As well from studies shows us how little the sides from it truly are in regards to the aforementioned sides above. Hair loss, Gynecomastia, Acne you just did not see it back then.

Hair loss? Science wise near impossible unless very high doses. Real-world results wise? I have seen guys regrow hair on reedit after switching from test to deca .



Gynecomastia? Science-wise gynecomastia is due to an off androgen to estrogen ratio. And deca science wise simply put is always in a very favorable ratio. Real-world results wise? I’ve never seen it happened even with guys that were prone to gyno off less than 100mg of testosterone yet could use again multiple grams of deca with ZERO estrogenic symptoms. The only times I have seen this happened was with guys using shady sources where I got them to test their product and lab work to reveal they had testosterone not deca in their product. Which surprisingly happens i guess so disclaimer if you can afford it always test your shit especially drugs that are expensive.



Acne? Real-world results and science wise we just do not see it happen. Nothing more to be said here.

Water retention? A study showed there was no fluid increase on this drug and bodybuilders in the 60s to late 80s used this drug as a contest prep drug as well, and so have my followers and clients. It is a very lean drug and many would compare it to a weaker tren. Dr. Robert Kerr who treated many bodybuilders in 70s 80s also reports this to be a dry drug with no water retention and is a great contest prep drug.

Deca shuts your testosterone down? Of course it does, all steroids do. What matters is we replace this drug with an androgen that can support our male functions. Dianabol, Deca (nandrolone), Equipoise all fit that bill. The big reason being here is they are all androgens that also convert to estrogen. Which is needed for androgens to even work on the androgen receptor period. This is why DHT drugs will not work as a base. Studies show without estrogen DHT drugs solo can make animals very timid and loss of sex drive, gain body fat and insulin resistance and even digestion goes down the drain due to estrogen being needed for pancreatic function on enzymes for digestion.

Prolactin? Well, zero studies have ever shown deca to ever raise prolactin, not a single one ever. And the only study showing us this shows it lowered prolactin compared to testosterone raising it. So deca lowers prolactin.

Libido loss? Never been heard of by any old pro bodybuilder when this was a staple as a base without testosterone, nor has a single report ever been recorded by the world health organization either unlike testosterone. The issue here is when testosterone use became popular and added to the mix. Deca simply put will make the side effect galore drug testosterone even worse. Helping aromatization of testosterone to estrogen and receptor sensitivity. Making testosterone an even worse drug leading to more sides such as libido loss. Again not a single study on deca used solo has ever reported it causing any sort of libido loss. And it has been used many times solo.

Conclusion. Why use testosterone, why when so many get sides off even 100mg of testosterone. Gynecomastia, bloating, acne, hair loss, for what? It isn’t needed to replace male function, seminal vessel health, prostate health, etc. Deca can do this and better at it for what we are doing here. We are not using anabolics for just a replacement effect. And if you are, then this topic isn’t for you and no need to consider anything but your TRT. When a bodybuilder or someone looking for an anabolic effect we are looking at using something that is above normal ranges for a purpose. And that purpose mainly is anabolism. Go and run 500mg of testosterone and your estrogen goes x5 the normal range. And prolactin all also goes up. Leading to all of our lovely sides that we now need to run Anti Aromatize drugs at high doses, which worsen heart, bone health and cause hair loss by themselves. Yet when we go and run 500mg of an anabolic drug like deca, we now have the effect we want, a high dose of anabolism. Yet our secondary hormone profiles are at a normal dose range similar to that using a TRT dose base of testosterone.

Can one run a test base say 100mg with an anabolic like deca as your main drug, such as 100mg testosterone with 500mg plus of deca? Sure. But I am sure many of you have read online and have experienced for yourself, countless users get side effects off even just 100mg of testosterone. Then this might not be the option for you when deca can replace all of your needs without the side effects.

simply put there is no need for testosterone or testosterone at high doses.

Tags : @Clavicular
@Dyorotic
@MA_ascender
@Jonas2k7
@Sapieeen
@NZb6Air
@ConfusedBolivian
@androgenic

Read every word, surely other people know this so why do they refuse to run Deca over testosterone for bodybuilding purposes?

 

[20/04/2008]

Read every word, surely other people know this so why do they refuse to run Deca over testosterone for bodybuilding purposes?

They don’t know
They just hear what others say
Like if you wanna run deca run it alone not with any injectable maybe Dbol or estradiol estriol cream to your scalp

 

[Dyorotic]

or ill spit in your anus

Spit in mine

 

[halloweed]

Ayo

 

[20/04/2008]

Spit in mine

Your moms enough

 

[Orc]

main issue is that testosterone fulfills about 100+ functions in your body.

nandrolone fulfills about 4, and it still shuts your testosterone down, so those functions are essentially impaired.

 

[20/04/2008]

main issue is that testosterone fulfills about 100+ functions in your body.

nandrolone fulfills about 4, and it still shuts your testosterone down, so those functions are essentially impaired.

Add dbol
And i can say the same things fo you who use fin/dut and impair many functions from the human body

 

[Orc]

Add dbol
And i can say the same things fo you who use fin/dut and impair many functions from the human body

fin doesn't completely impair aromatase, your body contains a lot of extra dht.

 

[20/04/2008]

fin doesn't completely impair aromatase, your body contains a lot of extra dht.

Well half of the forum use dut
If you use fin at 1mg obviously if your on testosterone 400mg+++ and supplement with neuro steroids it aint gonna do much
(and yes your a 100% right)

 

[ConfusedBolivian]

why is a deca base cycle better than testosterone base? Well, for one it brings an alternative to a hormone replacement base in a steroid cycle. As it has been used for androgen deficiency studies in males. And has been used as such solo without testosterone in HIV aids males for this very purpose. Why is deca used over test? Well because simply it provided better benefits, muscle growth, fewer side effects and reports of better quality of life.

(Remember every drug that came after test was meant to have less side effects and more anabolic effects exept some exeptions fluoxymesterone was made before testosterone and equipose and trenbolone were made for animal not humans, and superdrol and trestolone dhb are new drugs so they don’t count)

Majority of guys fear anabolics due to the side effects such as hair loss, gynecomastia, water retention, acne, acne scars and even the emotional sides. So they search for safer alternatives a lot of the times which usually doesn’t end up bringing the results either.

Deca, simply put from real-world results such as from bodybuilders from the 60s to late 80s, Mike menzter, Robby Robinson, Danny padilla and countless more many great names, As well from studies shows us how little the sides from it truly are in regards to the aforementioned sides above. Hair loss, Gynecomastia, Acne you just did not see it back then.

Hair loss? Science wise near impossible unless very high doses. Real-world results wise? I have seen guys regrow hair on reedit after switching from test to deca .



Gynecomastia? Science-wise gynecomastia is due to an off androgen to estrogen ratio. And deca science wise simply put is always in a very favorable ratio. Real-world results wise? I’ve never seen it happened even with guys that were prone to gyno off less than 100mg of testosterone yet could use again multiple grams of deca with ZERO estrogenic symptoms. The only times I have seen this happened was with guys using shady sources where I got them to test their product and lab work to reveal they had testosterone not deca in their product. Which surprisingly happens i guess so disclaimer if you can afford it always test your shit especially drugs that are expensive.



Acne? Real-world results and science wise we just do not see it happen. Nothing more to be said here.

Water retention? A study showed there was no fluid increase on this drug and bodybuilders in the 60s to late 80s used this drug as a contest prep drug as well, and so have my followers and clients. It is a very lean drug and many would compare it to a weaker tren. Dr. Robert Kerr who treated many bodybuilders in 70s 80s also reports this to be a dry drug with no water retention and is a great contest prep drug.

Deca shuts your testosterone down? Of course it does, all steroids do. What matters is we replace this drug with an androgen that can support our male functions. Dianabol, Deca (nandrolone), Equipoise all fit that bill. The big reason being here is they are all androgens that also convert to estrogen. Which is needed for androgens to even work on the androgen receptor period. This is why DHT drugs will not work as a base. Studies show without estrogen DHT drugs solo can make animals very timid and loss of sex drive, gain body fat and insulin resistance and even digestion goes down the drain due to estrogen being needed for pancreatic function on enzymes for digestion.

Prolactin? Well, zero studies have ever shown deca to ever raise prolactin, not a single one ever. And the only study showing us this shows it lowered prolactin compared to testosterone raising it. So deca lowers prolactin.

Libido loss? Never been heard of by any old pro bodybuilder when this was a staple as a base without testosterone, nor has a single report ever been recorded by the world health organization either unlike testosterone. The issue here is when testosterone use became popular and added to the mix. Deca simply put will make the side effect galore drug testosterone even worse. Helping aromatization of testosterone to estrogen and receptor sensitivity. Making testosterone an even worse drug leading to more sides such as libido loss. Again not a single study on deca used solo has ever reported it causing any sort of libido loss. And it has been used many times solo.

Conclusion. Why use testosterone, why when so many get sides off even 100mg of testosterone. Gynecomastia, bloating, acne, hair loss, for what? It isn’t needed to replace male function, seminal vessel health, prostate health, etc. Deca can do this and better at it for what we are doing here. We are not using anabolics for just a replacement effect. And if you are, then this topic isn’t for you and no need to consider anything but your TRT. When a bodybuilder or someone looking for an anabolic effect we are looking at using something that is above normal ranges for a purpose. And that purpose mainly is anabolism. Go and run 500mg of testosterone and your estrogen goes x5 the normal range. And prolactin all also goes up. Leading to all of our lovely sides that we now need to run Anti Aromatize drugs at high doses, which worsen heart, bone health and cause hair loss by themselves. Yet when we go and run 500mg of an anabolic drug like deca, we now have the effect we want, a high dose of anabolism. Yet our secondary hormone profiles are at a normal dose range similar to that using a TRT dose base of testosterone.

Can one run a test base say 100mg with an anabolic like deca as your main drug, such as 100mg testosterone with 500mg plus of deca? Sure. But I am sure many of you have read online and have experienced for yourself, countless users get side effects off even just 100mg of testosterone. Then this might not be the option for you when deca can replace all of your needs without the side effects.

simply put there is no need for testosterone or testosterone at high doses.

Tags : @Clavicular
@Dyorotic
@MA_ascender
@Jonas2k7
@Sapieeen
@NZb6Air
@ConfusedBolivian
@androgenic

Deca only cycle is good if you arent prolactin sensitive.

 

[DNRDniggerking]

280 Npp = 450 test E

where do you get these numbers from

 

[20/04/2008]

Anabolic androgenic ratio
+studies (go watch the video of mpmd nandrolone is 1.5x more anabolic than testosterone)

where do you get these numbers from