Getting the FME expander next month, who wants to see the progress

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letsdoit

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I'm in my early 20's and set to get the FME expander next month, targeting 7mm+ of expansion.
Currently at a 32 IMW.
Can anyone tell me what I can do to get the absolute most out of my expansion, ex: chewing daily with the device in? or anything else you guys recommend?

Should I get the FMA Face-mask that is coming out with the FME or will it make my jaw look smaller?

Here are some similar threads I found:

https://looksmax.org/threads/how-th...ible-with-mse-alone-high-iqcels-gtfih.146161/

looksmax.org

THE FIRST CCW ROTATION IN PSL HISTORY HAS BEEN OBTAINED WITH MSE

Holy shit, this is literally history in the making for looksmaxxers, someone on here who has got MSE with Dr. Ting has been incisor chewing falim 8 hours a day and frontally tip mewing whenever not chewing Dr. Ting got pissed as fuck at him and asked him what he did to his maxilla to rotate it...
looksmax.org looksmax.org



Which users here are most well versed on expansion, tag them please. @Clavicular

I can also post my results month by month if you guys want to see.
 

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Yay
 
pos tit
 
Post everything
 
3


Realistic FME lateral expansion
 
Where are you getting it? And have you asked about FMA?
 
im getting an expander soon thank God and braces. what should i know (money isnt an issue)
 
shtbender said:
Look at how it sightly changes the tilt of your orbitals. It will slightly raise your lateral canthus
Click to expand...
Can it reduce UEE? Or make a nct to a pct? If I incisor chew with it in, can that help change the tilt?
 
Would love to get your thoughts on this thread and the “FME” @jfbjfb

About to pm you back
 
letsdoit said:
Can it reduce UEE? Or make a nct to a pct? If I incisor chew with it in, can that help change the tilt?
Click to expand...
It wont reduce uee but it will make your canthal tilt slightly better by pushing your zygos slightly to the side and up
 
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letsdoit said:
Would love to get your thoughts on this thread and the “FME” @jfbjfb

About to pm you back
Click to expand...
I have been there before.

Early 20s, similar case as yours I guess, with a narrow palate and an accentuated open bite. Contacted about 15 providers and had consultations with several orthodontists with the expectations of having a myriad of issues solved through MSE. I will not negate the benefits that MSE can bring, but I have a hunch palatal expansion is indiscreetly glorified in this forum. We have yet to see ascension cases where the patient gains +0.5 PSL points.

Having put forward this disclaimer, we have to take into account that MSE can help in some cases. Especially recommended if you have a narrow nose, not absurdly prominent cheekbones in comparison to your jaw, and a crossbite (upper arch being a few mm narrower than the lower arch). Unless these conditions are met, and you go to a provider who will custom plan your MSE, I see little point in paying for this procedure. But if you meet all of them, then MSE can become a tool to give you a wider arch with no buccal corridors. And then, the beautiful thing is that once you have expanded, you can more easily correct an open bite if you have one. These were my main gains, along with some cheekbone expansion. Combining it with veneers provided me with a nice aesthetics boost when smiling (but again, minor improvements overall).

Then you will find people who may push you into facemask. I personally know a guy who crossed Europe to go to a based MSE provider, one that JawHacks has promoted quite a lot, and did facemask together with MSE. The result? Regret. You see, it is very hard to get the right vector pushing your maxilla for it to make a difference. The guy was diligent, so he managed to get about 3 mm of forward growth (I checked this in his scans) but it was only the lower maxilla that became more projected. However, the upper maxilla remained intact, giving him somewhat of a monkey-like look. In short, not a good bet, except if you need more lower maxilla projection whilst having a nice upper maxilla, which should be quite abnormal. Also take into account facemask is not meant for people who study or work in a social environment.

If you go into the MSE route with the aim of breating better, it is yet to be seen if that results in a positive outcome. Yes, your nose will become wider, but it will do nothing to your airway. This is basic fluid dynamics, given that if the bottleneck is due to the limited cross section of your airway, then MSE will be just cope. Personally, maybe I could breathe a bit better, but since I already had a wide airway it did not really help much. I remain agnostic when considering the benefits of MSE to health in general, but I have a very strong opinion, one based on actual research, that breating issues should be addressed through double jaw surgery.

All things considered, I want to make it clear that if your goal is to ascend, generally speaking custom trimax and implants is the way to go. You have much more certainty than opting for a palatal expansion, and you tackle the three planes, not only one.
 
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Tenzen Thenziro said:
100% chance of gettting. I aint doing palate expansion because of it, just upper and lower jaw surgeries.
Click to expand...
That's with MSE not FME, look at the difference
 
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shtbender said:
It wont reduce uee but it will make your canthal tilt slightly better by pushing your zygos slightly to the side and up
Click to expand...
Anything I can do with the installation/expansion to make sure this happens? HGhH peptides and high dose d3/k2 during it?
 
letsdoit said:
Anything I can do with the installation/expansion to make sure this happens? HGhH peptides and high dose d3/k2 during it?
Click to expand...
Canthal tilt is mostly bone alignment rather than bone mass. The palate expander is probably the most effective way of improving it without surgery.
However hgh increase bone mass which is a looksmax itself
 
shtbender said:
Canthal tilt is mostly bone alignment rather than bone mass. The palate expander is probably the most effective way of improving it without surgery.
However hgh increase bone mass which is a looksmax itself
Click to expand...
Currently I'm on hgh peptides, but I get the FME placed next month, I've heard contradictions about whether being on hgh is good or bad for expansion.
Some say that you can actually get better results during expansion while on hgh, like bigger zygos and more bonemass, others say being on hgh gives you a worse expansion and makes it harder to split giving worse results.

Can you help me on that?
Also if you want pics during my expansion lmk
 
letsdoit said:
Currently I'm on hgh peptides, but I get the FME placed next month, I've heard contradictions about whether being on hgh is good or bad for expansion.
Some say that you can actually get better results during expansion while on hgh, like bigger zygos and more bonemass, others say being on hgh gives you a worse expansion and makes it harder to split giving worse results.

Can you help me on that?
Also if you want pics during my expansion lmk
Click to expand...
There is no evidence supporting that hgh causes cranial suture closing.
That being said, theres no reason to believe hgh will give you better bone movement, but i do know that it will increase your facial bone mass if taken as a teen.
They both have different effects but can compound do give you a better overall result, without affecting each other.

And yea i would like to see how it goes, pm?
 
jfbjfb said:
I have been there before.

Early 20s, similar case as yours I guess, with a narrow palate and an accentuated open bite. Contacted about 15 providers and had consultations with several orthodontists with the expectations of having a myriad of issues solved through MSE. I will not negate the benefits that MSE can bring, but I have a hunch palatal expansion is indiscreetly glorified in this forum. We have yet to see ascension cases where the patient gains +0.5 PSL points.

Having put forward this disclaimer, we have to take into account that MSE can help in some cases. Especially recommended if you have a narrow nose, not absurdly prominent cheekbones in comparison to your jaw, and a crossbite (upper arch being a few mm narrower than the lower arch). Unless these conditions are met, and you go to a provider who will custom plan your MSE, I see little point in paying for this procedure. But if you meet all of them, then MSE can become a tool to give you a wider arch with no buccal corridors. And then, the beautiful thing is that once you have expanded, you can more easily correct an open bite if you have one. These were my main gains, along with some cheekbone expansion. Combining it with veneers provided me with a nice aesthetics boost when smiling (but again, minor improvements overall).

Then you will find people who may push you into facemask. I personally know a guy who crossed Europe to go to a based MSE provider, one that JawHacks has promoted quite a lot, and did facemask together with MSE. The result? Regret. You see, it is very hard to get the right vector pushing your maxilla for it to make a difference. The guy was diligent, so he managed to get about 3 mm of forward growth (I checked this in his scans) but it was only the lower maxilla that became more projected. However, the upper maxilla remained intact, giving him somewhat of a monkey-like look. In short, not a good bet, except if you need more lower maxilla projection whilst having a nice upper maxilla, which should be quite abnormal. Also take into account facemask is not meant for people who study or work in a social environment.

If you go into the MSE route with the aim of breating better, it is yet to be seen if that results in a positive outcome. Yes, your nose will become wider, but it will do nothing to your airway. This is basic fluid dynamics, given that if the bottleneck is due to the limited cross section of your airway, then MSE will be just cope. Personally, maybe I could breathe a bit better, but since I already had a wide airway it did not really help much. I remain agnostic when considering the benefits of MSE to health in general, but I have a very strong opinion, one based on actual research, that breating issues should be addressed through double jaw surgery.

All things considered, I want to make it clear that if your goal is to ascend, generally speaking custom trimax and implants is the way to go. You have much more certainty than opting for a palatal expansion, and you tackle the three planes, not only one.
Click to expand...
what do you think of appliances like a biobloc or dna appliance?
 
stufftodo said:
what do you think of appliances like a biobloc or dna appliance?
Click to expand...
Not recommended at all unless you are still a kid. Probably not a single member in this forum should even consider it.
 
jfbjfb said:
Not recommended at all unless you are still a kid. Probably not a single member in this forum should even consider it.
Click to expand...
reason being?
 
stufftodo said:
reason being?
Click to expand...
These devices are based on the same principles of mewing. Mainly, internal forces over time are considered to produce bone changes and palatal expansion with it. Acrylic expanders are tooth borne expanders that will produce some results in younger patients given how much bones are malleable at that age but will struggle to produce significant changes in adults for this reason. On top of that, they are harder to control and the final tooth position may differ from what was initially planned. The best option if you want to expand at the cortical level would be to wear aligners and have corticotomies to ease up the movement.

I am talking from experience because my looksmax journey started by buying these cheap expanders from bracesshop. The result became unstable and it was hard to even expand a few mm. This lead me to MSE + aligners with corticotomies, with was significantly more expensive but provided a better result.
 
Last edited:
jfbjfb said:
These devices are based on the same principles of mewing. Mainly, internal forces over time are considered to produce bone changes and palatal expansion with it. Acrylic expanders are tooth borne expanders that will produce some results in younger patients given how much bones are malleable at that age but will struggle to produce significant changes in adults for this reason. On top of that, they are harder to control and the final tooth position may differ from what was initially planned. The best option if you want to expand at the cortical level would be to wear aligners and have corticotomies to ease up the movement.

I am talking from experience because my looksmax journey started by buying these cheap expanders from bracesshop. The result became unstable and it was hard to even expand a few mm. This lead me to MSE + aligners with corticotomies, with was significantly more expensive but provided a better result.
Click to expand...
Just sent you a pm back, we seem to have started at a similar point.
 
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shtbender said:
There is no evidence supporting that hgh causes cranial suture closing.
That being said, theres no reason to believe hgh will give you better bone movement, but i do know that it will increase your facial bone mass if taken as a teen.
They both have different effects but can compound do give you a better overall result, without affecting each other.

And yea i would like to see how it goes, pm?
Click to expand...
So I'll continue the hgh peptides up until installation then stop it, then after the split with the device in, restart the peptides hoping they synergistically help one another?

Yeah I'll pm you updates
 
letsdoit said:
So I'll continue the hgh peptides up until installation then stop it, then after the split with the device in, restart the peptides hoping they synergistically help one another?

Yeah I'll pm you updates
Click to expand...
They each work in different ways but dont affect the other. They are 2 different looksmaxes that you can do in the same time frame, but one will not necessarily boost the results of the other.
I would say just keep the hgh peptides like you would usually run it
 
shtbender said:
They each work in different ways but dont affect the other. They are 2 different looksmaxes that you can do in the same time frame, but one will not necessarily boost the results of the other.
I would say just keep the hgh peptides like you would usually run it
Click to expand...
Have you not heard that in patients taking hgh can cause the bones especially the zygos more resistance to push out?

Especially at my age 21?
 
> "Should I get the FMA Face-mask that is coming out with the FME or will it make my jaw look smaller?"

of course you will look retarded if you expand only the upper jaw. It doesn't matter if you protract or not.

What I suggest is you do FME+FMA plus mandibular surgery to match your new maxilla
Screenshot 2025 02 27 at 22955AM
. You will most likely still benefit from bimax so u can also plan for that.

One piece of advice with FME, I believe FME like MSE comes with a reduction in saggital length of the palate. THIS IS NOT GOOD. You don't want to reduce tongue space in any dimension ever. I personally plan to talk about this concern with my provider down the line when I'm doing fme. Im sure some sort of simple wire setup can be made to basically ensure the saggital dimension remains unchanged through expansion.
 
jfbjfb said:
I have been there before.

Early 20s, similar case as yours I guess, with a narrow palate and an accentuated open bite. Contacted about 15 providers and had consultations with several orthodontists with the expectations of having a myriad of issues solved through MSE. I will not negate the benefits that MSE can bring, but I have a hunch palatal expansion is indiscreetly glorified in this forum. We have yet to see ascension cases where the patient gains +0.5 PSL points.

Having put forward this disclaimer, we have to take into account that MSE can help in some cases. Especially recommended if you have a narrow nose, not absurdly prominent cheekbones in comparison to your jaw, and a crossbite (upper arch being a few mm narrower than the lower arch). Unless these conditions are met, and you go to a provider who will custom plan your MSE, I see little point in paying for this procedure. But if you meet all of them, then MSE can become a tool to give you a wider arch with no buccal corridors. And then, the beautiful thing is that once you have expanded, you can more easily correct an open bite if you have one. These were my main gains, along with some cheekbone expansion. Combining it with veneers provided me with a nice aesthetics boost when smiling (but again, minor improvements overall).

Then you will find people who may push you into facemask. I personally know a guy who crossed Europe to go to a based MSE provider, one that JawHacks has promoted quite a lot, and did facemask together with MSE. The result? Regret. You see, it is very hard to get the right vector pushing your maxilla for it to make a difference. The guy was diligent, so he managed to get about 3 mm of forward growth (I checked this in his scans) but it was only the lower maxilla that became more projected. However, the upper maxilla remained intact, giving him somewhat of a monkey-like look. In short, not a good bet, except if you need more lower maxilla projection whilst having a nice upper maxilla, which should be quite abnormal. Also take into account facemask is not meant for people who study or work in a social environment.

If you go into the MSE route with the aim of breating better, it is yet to be seen if that results in a positive outcome. Yes, your nose will become wider, but it will do nothing to your airway. This is basic fluid dynamics, given that if the bottleneck is due to the limited cross section of your airway, then MSE will be just cope. Personally, maybe I could breathe a bit better, but since I already had a wide airway it did not really help much. I remain agnostic when considering the benefits of MSE to health in general, but I have a very strong opinion, one based on actual research, that breating issues should be addressed through double jaw surgery.

All things considered, I want to make it clear that if your goal is to ascend, generally speaking custom trimax and implants is the way to go. You have much more certainty than opting for a palatal expansion, and you tackle the three planes, not only one.
Click to expand...
could you share your friends scans in dms?

And yeah I bump what you say its crazy to me how many people think mse alone is going to solve all their problems. they treat it like the full solution when it is at best a fraction of it.
 
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mvp2v1 said:
could you share your friends scans in dms?

And yeah I bump what you say its crazy to me how many people think mse alone is going to solve all their problems. they treat it like the full solution when it is at best a fraction of it.
Click to expand...
For privacy purposes I would like to abstain myself from doing so.

One thing is certain. There is little research being done on these face masks so we do not yet know what is the best angle to pull and if the whole maxilla will follow. Getting a face mask may just create a set of problems that you could try to fix with another face mask by exerting force at a different angle, and if that fails, you have to resort to high cut leforts. Not a good business in my opinion.
 
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mvp2v1 said:
> "Should I get the FMA Face-mask that is coming out with the FME or will it make my jaw look smaller?"

of course you will look retarded if you expand only the upper jaw. It doesn't matter if you protract or not.

What I suggest is you do FME+FMA plus mandibular surgery to match your new maxilla View attachment 3525513. You will most likely still benefit from bimax so u can also plan for that.

One piece of advice with FME, I believe FME like MSE comes with a reduction in saggital length of the palate. THIS IS NOT GOOD. You don't want to reduce tongue space in any dimension ever. I personally plan to talk about this concern with my provider down the line when I'm doing fme. Im sure some sort of simple wire setup can be made to basically ensure the saggital dimension remains unchanged through expansion.
Click to expand...
Have you seen FME cases?
I have never heard about the reduction in saggital length, how do I bring this up to my provider in a simple way?

I an scheduled to get mine installed next month, I can keep you updated privately thru pm’s on how it looks both aesthetically / functionally
 
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letsdoit said:
Have you seen FME cases?
Click to expand...
ive seen quite a few cbct and ct scans, and I have seen one before and after (soft tissues ie a normal human selfie/pics)

letsdoit said:
I have never heard about the reduction in saggital length, how do I bring this up to my provider in a simple way?
Click to expand...
check my dm
 
jfbjfb said:
For privacy purposes I would like to abstain myself from doing so.

One thing is certain. There is little research being done on these face masks so we do not yet know what is the best angle to pull and if the whole maxilla will follow. Getting a face mask may just create a set of problems that you could try to fix with another face mask by exerting force at a different angle, and if that fails, you have to resort to high cut leforts. Not a good business in my opinion.
Click to expand...
valid, ive personaly seen one protraction which braught the whole maxilla forward quite a bit, I think it was around 4mm.

Screenshot 2023 12 03 at 20658AM
Screenshot 2023 12 03 at 20707AM
this was scolo, he did a massive mse expansion
 
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