Islam is the only religion that makes sense

[JamesHowlett]

again,the existance of allah is proven by observation,its a very deep reasoning that muhammed hijab explains much better than i ever will so you seriously need to check it out if you are interested in this discussion.basically what it is is that the existence of the universe is easier to explain by the fact that an entity out of our space and time concept has created time and with it the universe rather than believing that the universe was created from nothing and it works so well from nothing,the sun being at the perfect distance from the earth and all those connections were created out of nothing is way harder for me to believe than to believe that an outside being made all this work perfectly especially when other factors in islam make so much sense.i would really advice you to watch the channel i suggested cause they have studied religion and philosophy and science and they really make incredible arguments and points

You’re making creator arguments (which in itself are extremely flawed), you now need to prove which creator it is out of the the 1000’s that have been proposed over human history.

Some things in Islam make sense, as can be seen in other religions. However a lot of things also don’t, as can be seen in other religions. So you’re back to square one.

 

[CupOfCoffee]

Dude i am from a muslim country and it is controversial

Cuz everyone is a coomer ngl.

 

[JamesHowlett]

yes but i could ask you where did the big bang come from?i think islam is the most likely answer cause when the question about where big bang came from we have no possible answer while if you ask me where did god come from i can tell you that in islam we believe allah,god is outside of our space and time and thats why he can create the universe without having to be created by someone else.and since out of the 2 options the godly option is the most likely to make sense and has an answer thats why i believe it to be true

So your reasoning is “I believe this story therefore I think it’s true”. You have to prove your claims. Here’s an idea, why don’t you just say “I don’t know” when someone asks how the universe was created.

 

[Deleted member 12344]

Cuz everyone is a coomer ngl.

true

 

[Deleted member 4696]

You’re making creator arguments (which in itself are extremely flawed), you now need to prove which creator it is out of the the 1000’s that have been proposed over human history.

Some things in Islam make sense, as can be seen in other religions. However a lot of things also don’t, as can be seen in other religions. So you’re back to square one.

the creator is the same for all the abrahamic religions allah is just another way to say god,now if you are asking what religion is the true one then you need to do your own reaserch and find the one you think is the less flawed which for me is islam,but thats not relevant to the discussion unless you can clarify,if you at least believe in a being that created the universe thats already a big step and from there you can look at the religions and see which one makes the most sense to you.right now im trying to tell you why i believe in god and not islam in particular we need to go step by step cause clearly if you believe the universe came from nowhere which religion is the true one is irrelevant to you

 

[Deleted member 10987]

the creator is the same for all the abrahamic religions allah is just another way to say god,now if you are asking what religion is the true one then you need to do your own reaserch and find the one you think is the less flawed which for me is islam,but thats not relevant to the discussion unless you can clarify,if you at least believe in a being that created the universe thats already a big step and from there you can look at the religions and see which one makes the most sense to you.right now im trying to tell you why i believe in god and not islam in particular we need to go step by step cause clearly if you believe the universe came from nowhere which religion is the true one is irrelevant to you

Allah = The Lord

 

[Deleted member 4696]

So your reasoning is “I believe this story therefore I think it’s true”. You have to prove your claims. Here’s an idea, why don’t you just say “I don’t know” when someone asks how the universe was created.

no,im saying that i use the scientific method,which means that i believe something because it is the most likely option(ofc this means i dont know if its the absolute truth cause no one was there when god was creating the universe and in the same way no one can physically see gravity yet we believe in it throught observatuion and the fact that the theory about it is the most likely to be true).but also its funny that you are so modest about saying that you dont know where the universe came from yet you are so fast to take out the god option dont you think?

 

[Deleted member 10987]

We could bring every proof and arguments
They will never be happy and always be unsatisfied

 

[JamesHowlett]

the creator is the same for all the abrahamic religions allah is just another way to say god,now if you are asking what religion is the true one then you need to do your own reaserch and find the one you think is the less flawed which for me is islam,but thats not relevant to the discussion unless you can clarify,if you at least believe in a being that created the universe thats already a big step and from there you can look at the religions and see which one makes the most sense to you.right now im trying to tell you why i believe in god and not islam in particular we need to go step by step cause clearly if you believe the universe came from nowhere which religion is the true one is irrelevant to you

You believe Islam is the correct religion because of faith and/or upbringing, you have no actual reasoning for it (not that I’ve seen anyways).

You also haven’t proven that a creator is the origin of the universe.

 

[Deleted member 4696]

We could bring every proof and arguments
They will never be happy and always be unsatisfied

that another thing some people even with proof will never agree but i believe that most people here just didnt do enough research,it would be nice if they checked knowledgable people on the subject and that could at least clear some misconceptions even if in the end they will not agree with islam

 

[JamesHowlett]

no,im saying that i use the scientific method,which means that i believe something because it is the most likely option(ofc this means i dont know if its the absolute truth cause no one was there when god was creating the universe and in the same way no one can physically see gravity yet we believe in it throught observatuion and the fact that the theory about it is the most likely to be true).but also its funny that you are so modest about saying that you dont know where the universe came from yet you are so fast to take out the god option dont you think?

Your whole argument is circular because it’s main basis is that there is a creater, you need to prove that.

Me taking out the god option as you put it is me saying “I don’t believe your claim”. I’m not making a claim myself.

 

[Deleted member 4696]

You believe Islam is the correct religion because of faith and/or upbringing, you have no actual reasoning for it (not that I’ve seen anyways).

You also haven’t proven that a creator is the origin of the universe.

im telling you that god is the most likely option for me because it actually has an explanation to the creation of the universe so its up to you to show me that there is a more likely option and if you cant find it why it is wrong for me to believe in god if thats how the scientific method itself works?

 

[Deleted member 10913]

You’re right, in history divine intervention was used for power and to control civilisation. The rules were different depending on where you were on the planet. Also 1000’s of gods have been proposed over human history, which one if any is correct?

In present times we don’t need religion anymore to make a good society. The 1000’s of other religions died and so will the main ones today when people finally realise we don’t need them anymore.

Well everything humans did was for power and control, what religion for the most part did was actually putting restraints on unjustified use of power. In reality there are two lines of thinking how humans observe the world. You either have a monotheistic one ie Islam or polytheism. Where the atributes of the creator are given to everything, hence there arw many many "gods" in polytheism. With this potentially a rock can even be even a"god".
Moving on the present time humanity did not just "change". Believing in God is our natural inclination. Rejecting this will be the collapse nothing more. What you hold is a modernist view that there is a destiny that humanity needs to achieve. This destiny however is to leave humanity. First the industrial revolution then the technological revolution and finally the biomechanic revolution. Seeing yourself as better because you are born in "x" time is nothing more then foolishness if not evil.
________________________________________

Spoiler: Being

philosophy, carried an inherent error from its beginning. He called that error: "the forgetfulness of Being.". As a first approximation to his thinking we will say that Heidegger maintained that Philosophy cannot think Truth; or -which is the same-, that what philosophy calls truth is not Truth.

Heidegger's new thinking put in question the unquestionable, the unthinkable: the very essence of our thinking. But what is so peculiar about Heidegger's critique is that he did not bring another epistemology, another philosophy. He did not question philosophy within philosophy. He declared nothing other than "The End of Philosophy". He closed the shop of a way of thinking that had been around for the last 2,500 years.

In a certain rough and ready sense, Heidegger argues, we all know what being means. But we no longer know how to address the question of the meaning of Being and this largely because we have lost sight of the correct mode of access to the question
Only from the truth of Being can the essence of the holy be thought. Only from the essence of the holy is the essence of the divine to be thought. Only in the light of the essence of divinity can it be thought or said what the word "God" is to signify. Or should we not first be able to hear and understand all these words carefully if we are to be permitted as men, that is, as ek-sistent creatures, to experience a relation of God to man? How can man at the present stage of world history ask at all seriously and rigorously whether the god nears or withdraws, when he has above all neglected to think into the dimension in which alone that question can be asked? But this is the dimension of the holy, which indeed remains closed as a dimension if the open region of Being is not cleared and in its clearing is near man. Perhaps what is distinctive about this world-epoch consists in the closure of the dimension of the hale [des Heilen]. Perhaps that is the sole malignancy [Unheil].
"Letter on Humanism," in Martin Heidegger: Basic Writings (New York: HarperCollins, 1993), 253-254.

Heidegger's thought is not essentially atheistic, whatever his own religious leanings. However, his thought does elucidate the very grounds on which we can think of the divine: in terms of man's understanding, his being, which must be a factor in the God-man relationship. If we misunderstand man's essential nature then we will also misunderstand his relationship to the divine (as we will his relationship to everything else). Indeed, how can we seriously question the existence of God (whether he "nears or withdraws") when we ignore the very grounds on which that question rests, the very grounds on which such questioning is possible--man's essential relationship with being?

 

[JamesHowlett]

im telling you that god is the most likely option for me because it actually has an explanation to the creation of the universe so its up to you to show me that there is a more likely option and if you cant find it why it is wrong for me to believe in god if thats how the scientific method itself works?

You’re saying god is the most likely option for you, that’s fine. But don’t say it’s because of scientific reasoning, because there no scientific rationale for your claim whatsoever. Science’ most likely theories don’t include a god.

Just admit that you believe in Islam because of faith and we can move on. Don’t lie and say you believe in Islam because of science.

 

[Deleted member 4696]

Your whole argument is circular because it’s main basis is that there is a creater, you need to prove that.

Me taking out the god option as you put it is me saying “I don’t believe your claim”. I’m not making a claim myself.

i believe that you are trying to have me show you god but clearly i cant do that i believe he exists cause he is the most likely option how could you prove to me gravity if i dont believe in it?i cant see or touch it all i can do is observe the fact that i get dragged down if i jump so the most likely option is that there is a force doing it,the same way i see that the universe is way too perfect and that has a start which is time and therefore i conclude that the most be a being outside of time that started this cause if it wasnt the case it would mean the universe came from nothing which is the same as claiming 0+0=1

 

[Deleted member 10913]

You’re making creator arguments (which in itself are extremely flawed), you now need to prove which creator it is out of the the 1000’s that have been proposed over human history.

Some things in Islam make sense, as can be seen in other religions. However a lot of things also don’t, as can be seen in other religions. So you’re back to square one.

I replied to your posts and also the answer for the other posts you made. Read it carefully

 

[JamesHowlett]

Well everything humans did was for power and control, what religion for the most part did was actually putting restraints on unjustified use of power. In reality there are two lines of thinking how humans observe the world. You either have a monotheistic one ie Islam or polytheism. Where the atributes of the creator are given to everything, hence there arw many many "gods" in polytheism. With this potentially a rock can even be even a"god".
Moving on the present time humanity did not just "change". Believing in God is our natural inclination. Rejecting this will be the collapse nothing more. What you hold is a modernist view that there is a destiny that humanity needs to achieve. This destiny however is to leave humanity. First the industrial revolution then the technological revolution and finally the biomechanic revolution. Seeing yourself as better because you are born in "x" time is nothing more then foolishness if not evil.
________________________________________

Spoiler: Being

philosophy, carried an inherent error from its beginning. He called that error: "the forgetfulness of Being.". As a first approximation to his thinking we will say that Heidegger maintained that Philosophy cannot think Truth; or -which is the same-, that what philosophy calls truth is not Truth.

Heidegger's new thinking put in question the unquestionable, the unthinkable: the very essence of our thinking. But what is so peculiar about Heidegger's critique is that he did not bring another epistemology, another philosophy. He did not question philosophy within philosophy. He declared nothing other than "The End of Philosophy". He closed the shop of a way of thinking that had been around for the last 2,500 years.

In a certain rough and ready sense, Heidegger argues, we all know what being means. But we no longer know how to address the question of the meaning of Being and this largely because we have lost sight of the correct mode of access to the question
Only from the truth of Being can the essence of the holy be thought. Only from the essence of the holy is the essence of the divine to be thought. Only in the light of the essence of divinity can it be thought or said what the word "God" is to signify. Or should we not first be able to hear and understand all these words carefully if we are to be permitted as men, that is, as ek-sistent creatures, to experience a relation of God to man? How can man at the present stage of world history ask at all seriously and rigorously whether the god nears or withdraws, when he has above all neglected to think into the dimension in which alone that question can be asked? But this is the dimension of the holy, which indeed remains closed as a dimension if the open region of Being is not cleared and in its clearing is near man. Perhaps what is distinctive about this world-epoch consists in the closure of the dimension of the hale [des Heilen]. Perhaps that is the sole malignancy [Unheil].
"Letter on Humanism," in Martin Heidegger: Basic Writings (New York: HarperCollins, 1993), 253-254.

Heidegger's thought is not essentially atheistic, whatever his own religious leanings. However, his thought does elucidate the very grounds on which we can think of the divine: in terms of man's understanding, his being, which must be a factor in the God-man relationship. If we misunderstand man's essential nature then we will also misunderstand his relationship to the divine (as we will his relationship to everything else). Indeed, how can we seriously question the existence of God (whether he "nears or withdraws") when we ignore the very grounds on which that question rests, the very grounds on which such questioning is possible--man's essential relationship with being?

None of this proves the existence of an all-powerful creator that cares what kind of meat you eat and what your dick should look like.

 

[Deleted member 4696]

You’re saying god is the most likely option for you, that’s fine. But don’t say it’s because of scientific reasoning, because there no scientific rationale for your claim whatsoever. Science’ most likely theories don’t include a god.

Just admit that you believe in Islam because of faith and we can move on. Don’t lie and say you believe in Islam because of science.

bro we agreed the scientific method is picking the most likely option,can you show me whats more likely to explain the creation of the universe?

 

[JamesHowlett]

i believe that you are trying to have me show you god but clearly i cant do that i believe he exists cause he is the most likely option how could you prove to me gravity if i dont believe in it?i cant see or touch it all i can do is observe the fact that i get dragged down if i jump so the most likely option is that there is a force doing it,the same way i see that the universe is way too perfect and that has a start which is time and therefore i conclude that the most be a being outside of time that started this cause if it wasnt the case it would mean the universe came from nothing which is the same as claiming 0+0=1

You believe in Islam due to faith, not due to science.

 

[Deleted member 10987]

that another thing some people even with proof will never agree but i believe that most people here just didnt do enough research,it would be nice if they checked knowledgable people on the subject and that could at least clear some misconceptions even if in the end they will not agree with islam

They hate us bro

 

[Deleted member 10987]

You believe in Islam due to faith, not due to science.

And ???

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

If i decided to believe something that would be islam and this wont happen too tbh

You look sincere, never close that door man, what country are you from? Turkey? May Allah guide you to Islam, you look like a sincere and an open minden man

 

[Deleted member 10913]

None of this proves the existence of an all-powerful creator that cares what kind of meat you eat and what your dick should look like.

Well let me ask it this way. Do you understand your own being? If not it seems that understanding anything else won't be possible.

 

[Deleted member 6723]

A morality based on suffering would be timeless.

elab

 

[Deleted member 4696]

You believe in Islam due to faith, not due to science.

adress my points please, faith is a big part of it because i cant see god physically but how is that even an argument?religion is faith + reasoning

 

[JamesHowlett]

bro we agreed the scientific method is picking the most likely option,can you show me whats more likely to explain the creation of the universe?

Your underlying proposal is that the universe was created, you’re coming into this debate with a president-conceived notion. I don’t know how the universe was created and neither doesn anyone else.

You believe in Islam due to faith, not science.

 

[JamesHowlett]

adress my points please, faith is a big part of it because i cant see god physically but how is that even an argument?religion is faith + reasoning

You have no points because you haven’t brought up any rationale for Allah existing or for creating the universe.

 

[JamesHowlett]

Well let me ask it this way. Do you understand your own being? If not it seems that understanding anything else won't be possible.

Not sure what you’re trying to say here but no one has the true answer.

 

[Deleted member 4696]

Your underlying proposal is that the universe was created, you’re coming into this debate with a president-conceived notion. I don’t know how the universe was created and neither doesn anyone else.

You believe in Islam due to faith, not science.

the universe has a start so clearly at one point it didnt exist therefore something outside of time has to make it start,when people couldnt explain gravity does that mean gravity didnt exist?we cant expalin the start of the universe but thats why we should believe the most likely option just like we do with everything else in the universe you can either believe 0+0=1 or believe in the being that you obviously cant see and therefore requires faith to be able to

 

[JamesHowlett]

And ???

Just an observation

 

[Deleted member 10913]

Not sure what you’re trying to say here but no one has the true answer.

Read once again my prev thread. Can you see my argument?

 

[Deleted member 10987]

Another thing
Islam is perfect
Muslims are not
In fact, a lot of Muslims act subhumanly

 

[Deleted member 4696]

You have no points because you haven’t brought up any rationale for Allah existing or for creating the universe.

please bro help me out here dont make it hard for me,how can you prove to me gravity exist if i dont believe in it?

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

They hate us bro

Brother, take that as a good thing, like for example, Allah says in the Qur'an something that means like the jews and the crhistians will not stop until we become one of them, we have several hadiths talking about the end of times and how muslims will be persecuted, immoralities will extend etc, this could hurt you, but at the same time it is a blessing that we are seeing it because it is a proof about the truthfulness of our religion the fact that this things really happens

Don't think about the hate we receive as something bad for us, rather take it as a motivation and as a proof, the important thing in this life is to worship Allah, and try to die upon the shahadah with a clean heart, be always with your muslims brothers akhi, and never forget about Allah, because Allah doesn't need us but we need him

 

[Deleted member 10987]

Just an observation

Thats literally the concept of faith

 

[JamesHowlett]

the universe has a start so clearly at one point it didnt exist therefore something outside of time has to make it start,when people couldnt explain gravity does that mean gravity didnt exist?we cant expalin the start of the universe but thats why we should believe the most likely option just like we do with everything else in the universe you can either believe 0+0=1 or believe in the being that you obviously cant see and therefore requires faith to be able to

What makes Allah the most likely option? That’s the question here

 

[JamesHowlett]

please bro help me out here dont make it hard for me,how can you prove to me gravity exist if i dont believe in it?

Because its scientifically demonstrable.

 

[Deleted member 10987]

Brother, take that as a good thing, like for example, Allah says in the Qur'an something that means like the jews and the crhistians will not stop until we become one of them, we have several hadiths talking about the end of times and how muslims will be persecuted, immoralities will extend etc, this could hurt you, but at the same time it is a blessing that we are seeing it because it is a proof about the truthfulness of our religion the fact that this things really happens

Don't think about the hate we receive as something, rather take it as a motivation and as a proof, the important thing in this life is to worship Allah, and try to die upon the shahadah with a clean heart, be always with your muslims brothers akhi, and never forget about Allah, because Allah doesn't need us but we need him

You seem a good man
You should leave this Forum
Not good here
Just copypaste looksmax advices and get out

 

[Deleted member 4696]

What makes Allah the most likely option? That’s the question here

i have been trying to explain this for the whole time imma copy paste,"the universe has a start so clearly at one point it didnt exist therefore something outside of time has to make it start,when people couldnt explain gravity does that mean gravity didnt exist?we cant expalin the start of the universe but thats why we should believe the most likely option just like we do with everything else in the universe you can either believe 0+0=1 or believe in the being"do you have any better option?

 

[Deleted member 4696]

Because its scientifically demonstrable.

in what way?

 

[JamesHowlett]

Thats literally the concept of faith

People are free to believe whatever, just don’t force it upon others or try and say you believe in it due to science because it’s clearly not scientific.

 

[JamesHowlett]

i have been trying to explain this for the whole time imma copy paste,"the universe has a start so clearly at one point it didnt exist therefore something outside of time has to make it start,when people couldnt explain gravity does that mean gravity didnt exist?we cant expalin the start of the universe but thats why we should believe the most likely option just like we do with everything else in the universe you can either believe 0+0=1 or believe in the being"do you have any better option?

Doesn’t prove Allah because there are 1000’s of proposed creators. Then on top of this, there are an infinite number of ways the universe could have come about without a creater, ways which we simply can’t fathom with our brains.

 

[Deleted member 10987]

People are free to believe whatever, just don’t force it upon others or try and say you believe in it due to science because it’s clearly not scientific.

>force it
I dont

I spread the message
If they accept it good
If they refuse it, then its their choices

The lord did not gave us Free-will for nothing

 

[JamesHowlett]

in what way?

Every test for gravity is repeatable and the same result will always come about. It also has set parameters, such as gravity being proportional to the mass of the object.

 

[JamesHowlett]

>force it
I dont

I spread the message
If they accept it good
If they refuse it, then its their choices

The lord did not gave us Free-will for nothing

This is fine, the other guy is saying he thinks it’s true because of science.

 

[Deleted member 10987]

This is fine, the other guy is saying he thinks it’s true because of science.

He mean Science in the Islamic term of Science

 

[ThatDjangoWalk]

Nazism brought all Nazis together too

For 1400 years? For all the races? Kings and beggers? No bro

Look, i recommend you to learn more about Islam from Islamic sources (i posted few links in this thread somewhere), since i don't think you are a bad person or an unsincere one, i perceive like you had bad experiences with muslims maybe in your country and that was the beggining of you position in this thread towards Islam, but at least you look like you recognize truth if you see it clearly, im telling you this with respect towards your person since you didnt start insulting and you tried to argue with decent words, at least with me

May Allah guide you to Islam

 

[Deleted member 4696]

Doesn’t prove Allah because there are 1000’s of proposed creators. Then on top of this, there are an infinite number of ways the universe could have come about without a creater, ways which we simply can’t fathom with our brains.

you are jumping to the other gods,first try to see if you believe in an "entity"or "something" that created the universe.also there are other 300 ways?how so?we know the universe started which implies logically that at one point it didnt exist(right?) and when something is created there arent 3000 options its either created by something/someone or created from nothing and started on its own

 

[JamesHowlett]

For 1400 years? For all the races? Kings and beggers? No bro

Look, i recommend you to learn more about Islam from Islamic sources (i posted few links in this thread somewhere), since i don't think you are a bad person or an unsincere one, i perceive like you had bad experiences with muslims maybe in your country and that was the beggining of you position in this thread towards Islam, but at least you look like you recognize truth if you see it clearly, im telling you this with respect towards your person since you didnt start insulting and you tried to argue with decent words, at least with me

May Allah guide you to Islam

I have nothing against Muslim people as a whole.

I have a problem with people asserting they have the correct answer for the universe without evidence, then accrediting it to science.

 

[lutte]

No one responding to your threads? Get multiple pages with just this one simple word!