My surgery with Defrancq: Custom PEEK Jaw/chin wrap + Special Genioplasty

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SurgerySoon

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Anonymous999 said:
I strongly, strongly advise not to have surgery with Dr. Yaremchuk.

Mark my words loud and clear as a warning. Rarely in life will you see such clear warnings.

We are all blinded by the thought of ideal outcome.

Coming from someone who's had unsuccessful surgeries with both Dr. Y and Dr. E (absolutely wild that I can say that), I would hands-down choose Dr. E over Dr. Y if I had to go to either again.

Because when I reflect, the unsuccessful surgery with Dr. E was due to the design, but his surgical process was otherwise fine.

If you go back to Dr. Y, your risk of infection is much higher. And as I communicated earlier, if you get a midface infection, especially after seeing this thread and my warnings, you will be kicking yourself for life. The current 2mm difference in augmentation + your desire for bigger, both of which slightly annoy you now, will be laughable in the future for you if you get an infection. I would do anything to get back to where I was.

The only kicker with Eppley is that he has an obsession with silicone. But XXL cheek implants "sit on a cliff" and are much more stably integrated as Medpor.

If I were in your position, I would avoid Dr. Y and consult with Dr. E. Explain to him in detail what your current state is. Ask him how he feels about infraciliary eyelid incisions and how often he does them. Assess his confidence. Ask him how he feels about putting in silicone vs Medpor (or even PEEK) over the bone after needing to remove your current Medpor implants.

You might be able to get XXL cheek implants without the need for extended infraorbital rim. If Eppley goes in through the mouth only, he could probably insert very good XXL cheek implants, allowing you to avoid the infraciliary incision. If you get 8+mm zygoma, even without extended IOR, your result will still be much better than what you have now. Essentially your zygoma will "out-power" any orbital deficiencies you think you have.

I see what you mean about Dr. E's surgical technique possibly being superior (at least in the sense that a patient would be less prone to developing an infection as compared to if they went with Dr. Y). That's why I mentioned in a previous thread that I was thinking about getting a copy of my midface implant design file (the actual VSP software file), emailing it to Dr. E's office, and telling him to simply add 2-3 mm of projection to each implant (in addition to correcting the existing asymmetry).

That still leaves the question of whether or not I should go back to Dr. Y to have the remaining two halves of my wraparound jaw implant placed. He quoted me $8.5k for this procedure. For the sake of comparison, someone was quoted between $27-$28k by Dr. Dhir in LA back in 2018 and around $18k by Eppley. The thing is, as interest in having these procedures done has grown among males over the last 1-2 years, I've heard that Eppley has actually raised his prices within the past year, although I'm not sure about Dhir.

Having said that, do you think it would be worth risking the infection gamble to go back to Dr. Y to have the remaining pieces of my jaw implant placed, considering that it would cost less than 1/2 -1/3 of what it would cost to have it placed by other surgeons?

The only silver lining to the possibility of my wraparound jaw implant halves getting infected is that it would at least not compromise my midface or chin implant results, since I'm assuming he wouldn't have to reopen any of those incisions and therefore wouldn't have to touch/expose either the chin or midface implants in order to place the wraparound halves.

Also, just out of curiosity, why do you think Dr. Y has grown to be associated with so many cases of infection, asymmetry, hematoma, and other surgical "slip-ups" in recent years? Do you think he's just getting too old to maintain the dexterity and sterility required to be a surgeon?

Edit: I noticed that you referred to my implants as Medpor implants -- they are actually silicone (just for the record).
 
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SurgerySoon said:
I see what you mean about Dr. E's surgical technique possibly being superior (at least in the sense that a patient would be less prone to developing an infection as compared to if they went with Dr. Y). That's why I mentioned in a previous thread that I was thinking about getting a copy of my midface implant design file (the actual VSP software file), emailing it to Dr. E's office, and telling him to simply add 2-3 mm of projection to each implant (in addition to correcting the existing asymmetry).

That still leaves the question of whether or not I should go back to Dr. Y to have the remaining two halves of my wraparound jaw implant placed. He quoted me $8.5k for this procedure. For the sake of comparison, someone was quoted between $27-$28k by Dr. Dhir in LA back in 2018 and around $18k by Eppley. The thing is, as interest in having these procedures done has grown among males over the last 1-2 years, I've heard that Eppley has actually raised his prices within the past year, although I'm not sure about Dhir.

Having said that, do you think it would be worth risking the infection gamble to go back to Dr. Y to have the remaining pieces of my jaw implant placed, considering that it would cost less than 1/2 -1/3 of what it would cost to have it placed by other surgeons?

The only silver lining to the possibility of my wraparound jaw implant halves getting infected is that it would at least not compromise my midface or chin implant results, since I'm assuming he wouldn't have to reopen any of those incisions and therefore wouldn't have to touch/expose either the chin or midface implants in order to place the wraparound halves.

Also, just out of curiosity, why do you think Dr. Y has grown to be associated with so many cases of infection, asymmetry, hematoma, and other surgical "slip-ups" in recent years? Do you think he's just getting too old to maintain the dexterity and sterility required to be a surgeon?

Edit: I noticed that you referred to my implants as Medpor implants -- they are actually silicone (just for the record).

Did you specifically request silicone with Dr. Y prior? Medpor tends to be Dr. Y's standard go-to. I was actually surprised when the OP mentioned having had silicone with Dr. Y.

I would ditch going back to Dr. Y altogether and just have Eppley insert your cheeks and a new chin/jaw wrap-around. Tell him you want to avoid infraciliary incisions but want XXL.

I saw your jaw design and I think you could do 10-12mm on each side instead of 8mm. In other words, don't fret about "wasting" the remaining part of the implant that Dr. Y has in storage. You don't want that anyway. The same way Dr. Y designed your cheeks too small, he also designed the jaw with insufficient lateral projection.

Since you have silicone in, it shouldn't be a hassle for Eppley to just remove and replace.

See if Eppley can design your jaw with PEEK over silicone, or at least see how he feels about that. Ask him about the "hanging on the cliff" aspect of silicone/PEEK for the malar implants and his thoughts on longer term stability. Ask him if he'd consider Medpor + if he's ever used it + his view on infections with it (obviously higher, but ask him, because Medpor is ideal for malar).

He will likely push silicone on you across the board, so ask him the % of cases, both for jaw and malar, which have experienced displacements despite screw immobilization.
 
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LDNPari

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Anonymous999 said:
See if Eppley can design your jaw with PEEK over silicone, or at least see how he feels about that. Ask him about the "hanging on the cliff" aspect of silicone/PEEK for the malar implants and his thoughts on longer term stability. Ask him if he'd consider Medpor + if he's ever used it + his view on infections with it (obviously higher, but ask him, because Medpor is ideal for malar).

He will likely push silicone on you across the board, so ask him the % of cases, both for jaw and malar, which have experienced displacements despite screw immobilization.

Eppley will use whatever material you ask him to, I think he's even used gold before. It's just going to be much more expensive for PEEK (I think he said that it's $30k just to order the implants) so you're probably looking at around $50k for the surgical fee. Eppley is definitely not going going to give unbiased advice about implant types, just will say he'll do whatever you want.

Curious since Eppley is known for poor designs, and you yourself had a terrible design with Eppley, why would you recommend him to design the jaw implant for @SurgeySoon? Understandably, you advocate against Yaremchuk due to the infection drama, but isn't that just a risk with every surgery of this type? Is there really no valid 3rd option for customized implants? It seems we either have a strong camp that says no to Y because some people's implants had to be removed due to infection, and then we have a camp that says no to Eppley because he lacks ethics and makes terrible designs. I'm planning a jaw wraparound implant later this year, have already consulted with Eppley, not very impressed, consulted with DeFrancq, also not impressed or surprised by this thread demonstrating he's ignorant of aesthetics. So that leaves me with an upcoming consult with Y, but now I am reading you're saying it's not even worth it because of infection risk? I'd say that's just the luck of the draw, no? Same thing could happen with Eppley. I'm definitely going to grill Y on the infection risk when consulting with him.
 
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LDNPari said:
Eppley will use whatever material you ask him to, I think he's even used gold before. It's just going to be much more expensive for PEEK (I think he said that it's $30k just to order the implants) so you're probably looking at around $50k for the surgical fee. Eppley is definitely not going going to give unbiased advice about implant types, just will say he'll do whatever you want.

Curious since Eppley is known for poor designs, and you yourself had a terrible design with Eppley, why would you recommend him to design the jaw implant for @SurgeySoon? Understandably, you advocate against Yaremchuk due to the infection drama, but isn't that just a risk with every surgery of this type? Is there really no valid 3rd option for customized implants? It seems we either have a strong camp that says no to Y because some people's implants had to be removed due to infection, and then we have a camp that says no to Eppley because he lacks ethics and makes terrible designs. I'm planning a jaw wraparound implant later this year, have already consulted with Eppley, not very impressed, consulted with DeFrancq, also not impressed or surprised by this thread demonstrating he's ignorant of aesthetics. So that leaves me with an upcoming consult with Y, but now I am reading you're saying it's not even worth it because of infection risk? I'd say that's just the luck of the draw, no? Same thing could happen with Eppley. I'm definitely going to grill Y on the infection risk when consulting with him.

You keep saying Eppley's design are bad some of the patients admit that they want them bigger. We don't know about others.
In the pictures below you can see his design predictions are precise and the last guy said in the realself eppley warns him about the big&unrealistic chin.
So why you keep bashing eppley here ?
He give whatever you want i guess.
 

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Anonymous999

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LDNPari said:
Eppley will use whatever material you ask him to, I think he's even used gold before. It's just going to be much more expensive for PEEK (I think he said that it's $30k just to order the implants) so you're probably looking at around $50k for the surgical fee. Eppley is definitely not going going to give unbiased advice about implant types, just will say he'll do whatever you want.

Curious since Eppley is known for poor designs, and you yourself had a terrible design with Eppley, why would you recommend him to design the jaw implant for @SurgeySoon? Understandably, you advocate against Yaremchuk due to the infection drama, but isn't that just a risk with every surgery of this type? Is there really no valid 3rd option for customized implants? It seems we either have a strong camp that says no to Y because some people's implants had to be removed due to infection, and then we have a camp that says no to Eppley because he lacks ethics and makes terrible designs. I'm planning a jaw wraparound implant later this year, have already consulted with Eppley, not very impressed, consulted with DeFrancq, also not impressed or surprised by this thread demonstrating he's ignorant of aesthetics. So that leaves me with an upcoming consult with Y, but now I am reading you're saying it's not even worth it because of infection risk? I'd say that's just the luck of the draw, no? Same thing could happen with Eppley. I'm definitely going to grill Y on the infection risk when consulting with him.

Eppley designed a horrible brow/forehead implant for me that had to be removed, yes. But I also imagine that chin/jaw and malar are a lot more straightforward and easier to design. Trust that I'm not happy about having wasted time and money, but that experience with him was nothing compared to the double-infection + zero empathy and lack of care from Dr. Y. If you have a problem with Dr. Y, he will shield you out and brush you under the rug.

You have to make the decision you feel is best for you. But as I've said, I had surgery with both of them, and I issue a clear warning about Dr. Yaremchuk.
 
LDNPari

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randomvanish said:
You keep saying Eppley's design are bad some of the patients admit that they want them bigger. We don't know about others.
In the pictures below you can see his design predictions are precise and the last guy said in the realself eppley warns him about the big&unrealistic chin.
So why you keep bashing eppley here ?
He give whatever you want i guess.

Because his designs and implementation are bad. The most famous cause of an Eppley surgeon in the PSL forums Saiyan @Saiyan said this about Eppley:



Eppley is a meme, not a good surgeron. Just look at some of the monstrosities he has produced.




Anonymous999 said:
Eppley designed a horrible brow/forehead implant for me that had to be removed, yes. But I also imagine that chin/jaw and malar are a lot more straightforward and easier to design. Trust that I'm not happy about having wasted time and money, but that experience with him was nothing compared to the double-infection + zero empathy and lack of care from Dr. Y. If you have a problem with Dr. Y, he will shield you out and brush you under the rug.

You have to make the decision you feel is best for you. But as I've said, I had surgery with both of them, and I issue a clear warning about Dr. Yaremchuk.

That is a big assumption that chin/jaw/malar are easier to design/implement. There have been so so many bad jaw and cheek implant results out there, Yaremchuk/Terino/Ramirez are the only doctors I've seen with consistently good aesthetic results, and two of those guys are no longer an option. I guess it weighs down to "Do I want a probable aesthetic issue with Eppley due to inability to design?" or "Do I want a potential surgical complication and poor aftercare with Yaremchuk?"
 
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LDNPari said:
Because his designs and implementation are bad. The most famous cause of an Eppley surgeon in the PSL forums Saiyan @Saiyan said this about Eppley:

View attachment 369588

Eppley is a meme, not a good surgeron. Just look at some of the monstrosities he has produced.


View attachment 369590



That is a big assumption that chin/jaw/malar are easier to design/implement. There have been so so many bad jaw and cheek implant results out there, Yaremchuk/Terino/Ramirez are the only doctors I've seen with consistently good aesthetic results, and two of those guys are no longer an option. I guess it weighs down to "Do I want a probable aesthetic issue with Eppley due to inability to design?" or "Do I want a potential surgical complication and poor aftercare with Yaremchuk?"

Numerous results but you just share same few photos again and again. Eppley is the most experienced md about facial implants in the world. I don't see enough complaints about him to claim he's a bad surgeon. Yet you say "Eppley is a meme".
Don't get me wrong, i really try to understand you are so against him while you cannot post solid reasons about your point. I value your knowledge on this since you are solidly against him, i'm just curious why.

Also you just ignore the part that i said "Eppley made precise predictions most of them want that anyway". He's an extreme surgeon, he did more cartoonish surgeries like Pixee Fox's.

However at this point, i value @ Anonymous999 Anonymous999 's claims since he got experience with Eppley.
 
Anonymous999

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LDNPari said:
Eppley is a meme, not a good surgeron. Just look at some of the monstrosities he has produced.


View attachment 369590

Funny the difference in people's aesthetic views. This is actually the result I'm shooting for. I had something similar to this before I lost my lower facial implants.
 
LDNPari

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randomvanish said:
Numerous results but you just share same few photos again and again. Eppley is the most experienced md about facial implants in the world. I don't see enough complaints about him to claim he's a bad surgeon. Yet you say "Eppley is a meme".
Don't get me wrong, i really try to understand you are so against him while you cannot post solid reasons about your point. I value your knowledge on this since you are solidly against him, i'm just curious why.

Also you just ignore the part that i said "Eppley made precise predictions most of them want that anyway". He's an extreme surgeon, he did more cartoonish surgeries like Pixee Fox's.

However at this point, i value @ Anonymous999 Anonymous999 's claims since he got experience with Eppley.

Never posted that photo before, so if you're confusing it with something else I posted it was probably just yet another bad Eppley result. There are plenty of complaints out there brother, I've been researching this topic for years. I've talked to patients of his, read various forums and review sites, and consulted with him. It's not just an opinion I formed for no reason. I wish Eppley was a good surgeon so we could have a legitimate option in custom facial implants, but he simply is not. His willingness to perform extreme surgeries on obviously mentally ill people like Pixee Fox is not a good thing, rather it displays he lacks any ethics. If you want to look like a cartoon character, sure go to Eppley, but personally I'm looking for as natural a result as possible.
 
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LDNPari said:
Never posted that photo before, so if you're confusing it with something else I posted it was probably just yet another bad Eppley result. There are plenty of complaints out there brother, I've been researching this topic for years. I've talked to patients of his, read various forums and review sites, and consulted with him. It's not just an opinion I formed for no reason. I wish Eppley was a good surgeon so we could have a legitimate option in custom facial implants, but he simply is not. His willingness to perform extreme surgeries on obviously mentally ill people like Pixee Fox is not a good thing, rather it displays he lacks any ethics. If you want to look like a cartoon character, sure go to Eppley, but personally I'm looking for as natural a result as possible.

Dr. Y designs small and conservative. He's very old school. Results of his designs are slight improvement but not very conspicuous. When I had non-CT chin/jaw implants with him 12 years ago, he said those exact words to me in the recovery room - "right now you're swollen, but in 4 weeks you'll say, 'couldn't you have made them bigger?'" So he clearly has heard that from his patients before. And although my result was improvement, yes, he certainly could have made them bigger.

My impression is that Eppley understands that most guys want more dramatic results. Eppley is younger. You can tell by his social media that he takes a more "trendy" approach to plastic surgery.

You should just articulate to Dr. E that you want conservative changes. That would probably mean 8-10mm on the posterior jaw angles and ~10mm on the chin (regardless of your projections now). 4-5mm on malar will give you conservative but reasonable changes.

I personally look for the dramatic change that you posted with Eppley's chin/jaw implant patient above. A fraction of the guys here would view that as "overly Superman and absurd," but I see that as a very good result.
 
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Anonymous999 said:
You should just articulate to Dr. E that you want conservative changes. That would probably mean 8-10mm on the posterior jaw angles
Anonymous999 said:
Did you specifically request silicone with Dr. Y prior? Medpor tends to be Dr. Y's standard go-to. I was actually surprised when the OP mentioned having had silicone with Dr. Y.

I would ditch going back to Dr. Y altogether and just have Eppley insert your cheeks and a new chin/jaw wrap-around. Tell him you want to avoid infraciliary incisions but want XXL.

I saw your jaw design and I think you could do 10-12mm on each side instead of 8mm. In other words, don't fret about "wasting" the remaining part of the implant that Dr. Y has in storage. You don't want that anyway. The same way Dr. Y designed your cheeks too small, he also designed the jaw with insufficient lateral projection.

Since you have silicone in, it shouldn't be a hassle for Eppley to just remove and replace.

See if Eppley can design your jaw with PEEK over silicone, or at least see how he feels about that. Ask him about the "hanging on the cliff" aspect of silicone/PEEK for the malar implants and his thoughts on longer term stability. Ask him if he'd consider Medpor + if he's ever used it + his view on infections with it (obviously higher, but ask him, because Medpor is ideal for malar).

He will likely push silicone on you across the board, so ask him the % of cases, both for jaw and malar, which have experienced displacements despite screw immobilization.

I didn't specifically request silicone with Dr. Y; my understanding is that he has become more open in general to using it as an implant material. After his office secretary emailed me my implant designs, she asked me if I wanted silicone or Medpor. I told her I wasn't sure and asked her if Dr. Y had a recommendation one way or the other, and he responded and told her to tell me to just go with silicone in case I'd lke removal one day (obviously this was a good call).

Regarding the wraparound jaw implant that Dr. Y designed and is holding for me -- the thing is, my jaw angles aren't that narrow to begin with, so I'm honestly not sure if I'd look good with even more projection than I have now. I would just hate to have to spend 3x as much having a totally new jaw implant designed/placed by another surgeon if Dr. Y's implant would look just as good (and for 1/3 of the price).

At this point, I'm lending serious consideration to requesting my midface implants design file (the actual VPS software file itself) from Dr. Y's office, sending it to Eppley, and telling him to stick with the exact same design and just add an additional 2-3 mm to both the lateral and anterior aspects of the implants (in addition to correcting the 2 mm asymmetry that exists between both implants). The only silver lining to my surgery with Dr. Y is that I at least know that the implant design itself looks good and natural in my face, so I don't think it will be necessary to have totally new implants designed. I think it would literally be ideal to just have the exact same implants in my face, just with more projection.
Anonymous999 said:
Dr. Y designs small and conservative. He's very old school. Results of his designs are slight improvement but not very conspicuous. When I had non-CT chin/jaw implants with him 12 years ago, he said those exact words to me in the recovery room - "right now you're swollen, but in 4 weeks you'll say, 'couldn't you have made them bigger?'" So he clearly has heard that from his patients before. And although my result was improvement, yes, he certainly could have made them bigger.

My impression is that Eppley understands that most guys want more dramatic results. Eppley is younger. You can tell by his social media that he takes a more "trendy" approach to plastic surgery.

You should just articulate to Dr. E that you want conservative changes. That would probably mean 8-10mm on the posterior jaw angles and ~10mm on the chin (regardless of your projections now). 4-5mm on malar will give you conservative but reasonable changes.

I personally look for the dramatic change that you posted with Eppley's chin/jaw implant patient above. A fraction of the guys here would view that as "overly Superman and absurd," but I see that as a very good result.

That's what frustrates me about Dr. Y. I can understand him wanting his patients to get natural results, but at the same time, is it really worth spending upwards of $20k (literally close to what it costs to have custom midface and wraparound jaw implants designed and placed) for results that are so subtle and inconspicuous that they border on being unnoticeable?

Honestly, why do you think he insists on designing implants with such conservative dimensions, even for patients who explicitly tell him they want more noticeable results? Is it basically a game of trying to place his patients in the post-op scenario where they'd say, "Well, it's definitely not what I was hoping to get since the results are so subtle... but at the same time, it's not like it looks 'bad' and at least I wasn't botched, so can I really complain?," while also doing what he can to avoid developing a reputation of being a surgeon who makes his patients look comical and overdone (sort of like the reputation Eppley has developed)?
 
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Anonymous999

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SurgerySoon said:
I didn't specifically request silicone with Dr. Y; my understanding is that he has become more open in general to using it as an implant material. After his office secretary emailed me my implant designs, she asked me if I wanted silicone or Medpor. I told her I wasn't sure and asked her if Dr. Y had a recommendation one way or the other, and he responded and told her to tell me to just go with silicone in case I'd lke removal one day (obviously this was a good call).

Regarding the wraparound jaw implant that Dr. Y designed and is holding for me -- the thing is, my jaw angles aren't that narrow to begin with, so I'm honestly not sure if I'd look good with even more projection than I have now. I would just hate to have to spend 3x as much having a totally new jaw implant designed/placed by another surgeon if Dr. Y's implant would look just as good (and for 1/3 of the price).

At this point, I'm lending serious consideration to requesting my midface implants design file (the actual VPS software file itself) from Dr. Y's office, sending it to Eppley, and telling him to stick with the exact same design and just add an additional 2-3 mm to both the lateral and anterior aspects of the implants (in addition to correcting the 2 mm asymmetry that exists between both implants). The only silver lining to my surgery with Dr. Y is that I at least know that the implant design itself looks good and natural in my face, so I don't think it will be necessary to have totally new implants designed. I think it would literally be ideal to just have the exact same implants in my face, just with more projection.

Don't add to current implants. Just get new implants altogether. I think this is what you meant anyway - i.e., keep design the "same," but just increase projection. As I mentioned with my prior surgery, when he added to current implant, it created a crunching/cracking palpable effect.

SurgerySoon said:
That's what frustrates me about Dr. Y. I can understand him wanting his patients to get natural results, but at the same time, is it really worth spending upwards of $20k (literally close to what it costs to have custom midface and wraparound jaw implants designed and placed) for results that are so subtle and inconspicuous that they border on being unnoticeable?

Honestly, why do you think he insists on designing implants with such conservative dimensions, even for patients who explicitly tell him they want more noticeable results? Is it basically a game of trying to place his patients in the post-op scenario where they'd say, "Well, it's definitely not what I was hoping to get since the results are so subtle... but at the same time, it's not like it looks 'bad' and at least I wasn't botched, so can I really complain?," while also doing what he can to avoid developing a reputation of being a surgeon who makes his patients look comical and overdone (sort of like the reputation Eppley has developed)?

Comes down to aesthetic views I believe. LDNPari @LDNPari for instance prefers subtle changes and would probably be content with a Dr Y-style design. I on the other hand prefer a more extreme/dramatic look on par with some of Eppley's designs. You get some guys commenting negatively on some of Eppley's "Superman" designs, but I see these as actually good.

Dr. Y is old school and conservative. He views aesthetics through the lens of well-balanced + subtle change (i.e., success is unnoticeable improvement). Eppley seems to have the new generational approach - i.e., build up the structure prominently for the young male.
 
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Anonymous999 said:
Don't add to current implants. Just get new implants altogether. I think this is what you meant anyway - i.e., keep design the "same," but just increase projection. As I mentioned with my prior surgery, when he added to current implant, it created a crunching/cracking palpable effect.



Comes down to aesthetic views I believe. LDNPari @LDNPari for instance prefers subtle changes and would probably be content with a Dr Y-style design. I on the other hand prefer a more extreme/dramatic look on par with some of Eppley's designs. You get some guys commenting negatively on some of Eppley's "Superman" designs, but I see these as actually good.

Dr. Y is old school and conservative. He views aesthetics through the lens of well-balanced + subtle change (i.e., success is unnoticeable improvement). Eppley seems to have the new generational approach - i.e., build up the structure prominently for the young male.
Where are you able to view examples? Their websites? Realself?
 
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Can I join as well? I had two surgeries done already.
 
Perma Virgin 666

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Adrenochrome said:
Discord Invite Drop: LMS CARTEL (1st wave🌊): https://discord.gg/M8uKpNs

Deleted member 1707 @Hal Rosi
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can you post another invite, this one is no longer valid.
 
Perma Virgin 666

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Anonymous999 said:
Funny the difference in people's aesthetic views. This is actually the result I'm shooting for. I had something similar to this before I lost my lower facial implants.
thats weird that you are looking for such a result. i guess it depends on what your goal is: getting puss puss or being a lolcow?
aesthetically the guy post OP looks objectively horrendous. his proportions are way off. extremely elongated face, square jaw on a skinny chicken neck. his chin is asymmetric. his lower third is trying to look chaddy and manly, but everything else doesnt.
i dont really know what aspects of life are supposed to improve from a surgery like that.
 
Anonymous999

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Perma Virgin 666 said:
thats weird that you are looking for such a result. i guess it depends on what your goal is: getting puss puss or being a lolcow?
aesthetically the guy post OP looks objectively horrendous. his proportions are way off. extremely elongated face, square jaw on a skinny chicken neck. his chin is asymmetric. his lower third is trying to look chaddy and manly, but everything else doesnt.
i dont really know what aspects of life are supposed to improve from a surgery like that.

People have different views on aesthetics. Your comments don't provide value for anyone here.
 
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Anonymous999 said:
Don't add to current implants. Just get new implants altogether. I think this is what you meant anyway - i.e., keep design the "same," but just increase projection. As I mentioned with my prior surgery, when he added to current implant, it created a crunching/cracking palpable effect.



Comes down to aesthetic views I believe. LDNPari @LDNPari for instance prefers subtle changes and would probably be content with a Dr Y-style design. I on the other hand prefer a more extreme/dramatic look on par with some of Eppley's designs. You get some guys commenting negatively on some of Eppley's "Superman" designs, but I see these as actually good.

Dr. Y is old school and conservative. He views aesthetics through the lens of well-balanced + subtle change (i.e., success is unnoticeable improvement). Eppley seems to have the new generational approach - i.e., build up the structure prominently for the young male.

On the topic of having the additional implant onlay layered on top of my current implants - Dr. Y had actually suggested doing this by having the onlay implants themselves manufactured by Implantech as essentially a second pair of my current implants (just of less thickness). That way, he said the onlay implants should fit snugly on top of my current implants without any noticeable issues. Do you still think the onlay implant layer would be a bad idea, even if executed in the manner I described?

Also, on a somewhat unrelated note, what are your thoughts on going to Dr. Y to have eye area work done (e.g., orbital decompression, correction of lower lid retraction, canthopexy)? From what I read, he actually used to be considered one of the go-to guys for these kinds of procedures until until the latest generation of oculoplastic surgeons like Dr. Taban came along in recent years. Would you also advice against going to him for non-implant procedures as well?
 
Anonymous999

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SurgerySoon said:
On the topic of having the additional implant onlay layered on top of my current implants - Dr. Y had actually suggested doing this by having the onlay implants themselves manufactured by Implantech as essentially a second pair of my current implants (just of less thickness). That way, he said the onlay implants should fit snugly on top of my current implants without any noticeable issues. Do you still think the onlay implant layer would be a bad idea, even if executed in the manner I described?

Also, on a somewhat unrelated note, what are your thoughts on going to Dr. Y to have eye area work done (e.g., orbital decompression, correction of lower lid retraction, canthopexy)? From what I read, he actually used to be considered one of the go-to guys for these kinds of procedures until until the latest generation of oculoplastic surgeons like Dr. Taban came along in recent years. Would you also advice against going to him for non-implant procedures as well?

I am unfortunately not able to recommend Dr. Y in any form after my back-to-back infections with him + his complete lack of empathy and care for me as a patient.

I do not recommend stacking in any form either. Just get new implants if you want more augmentation. You don't want to be "paper mache," especially on your cheeks. You will end up living out life feeling fragile about the stability of your cheeks. You want strong, solid implants for your midface.

You're actually "lucky" that your midface soft tissue will have been stretched slightly from your current augmentation. This will afford you to go 7-9mm zygoma for your second implant design. (I have 7.4 and 8.2 and am very confident about my malar now.) I remember reading a post of Eppley's where he said he's designed cheek implants as thick as 9mm.

After you get new XXL malar, you might not even feel like you need eye work done, as you'll look strikingly better. But if you do choose to go that route, seek out a specialist who is not Dr. Y. There are tons of surgeons in the world. Just do your research.

You'll make your own decisions in the end. Just take my input about Dr. Y here as the luckiest warning you could have received in life.
 
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Anonymous999 said:
People have different views on aesthetics. Your comments don't provide value for anyone here.
They absolutely do. And I think you are the perfect example of that. People scrolling through this may not notice that you think those very large Eppley results are ideal. For the vast majority of potential patients, those results will appear to be comically ridiculous. So when you say, "Y is too conservative"..... it's crucial to note that you have views on aesthetics that differ from the majority of potential patients.
 
Anonymous999

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ScramFranklin said:
They absolutely do. And I think you are the perfect example of that. People scrolling through this may not notice that you think those very large Eppley results are ideal. For the vast majority of potential patients, those results will appear to be comically ridiculous. So when you say, "Y is too conservative"..... it's crucial to note that you have views on aesthetics that differ from the majority of potential patients.

Yeah, I think extreme results are better. That's my view.
 
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Azzolecrusher @Azzolecrusher
 
Hekt0r

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did not read no pics im not going thru 13 pages to search for them shit thread kys unsticky now
 
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I'd also like a discord invite-- amazing story. I'm from the BeNeLux so I'm excited to hear about this surgeon. Would greatly appreciate it if you would invite me so I could further discuss your thoughts on him and your experiences. Thanks in advance.

I'm hyped. I'm pumped. I'm jacked. I'M JACKED TO THE TITS!
 
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That was my first post on the forum and you definitely deserve it, I posted it right after reading the original post. I am sorry to hear about your concluding thoughts regarding DeFranq.

But I gotta say, you're so positive and endearing. And your prose fucking rocks. Reading your story is a rollercoaster filled with tension, you could be a Hollywood writer, and later star in your own movie when you're done with what you gotta do, because you're so determined that I just know you will reach your goals. I mean holy shit, that covid post was so good. Your writing style is great man. Read your thread back to back, and I'm a slow reader (fucken dyslexia). If karmic justice is a thing, then you should be at the top of the list of people who deserve a great future, because your positivity is astounding bro. Just love the kind words and genuine care you seem to have and show for others, and the entertaining way with which you tell your story. Honestly wish we were friends because your way of engaging would make my day. Hope you're doing well much love and hope I can be brought along on your journey.


Anonymous999 said:
I don't know if Dr. Yaremchuk will ever come across this post of mine. If he does, he will know it's me. And I would say to you: I forgive you for what's happened. I don't think you're a bad person at heart. I know you wouldn't have wished this for me. Just would have meant the world to me if you had reached out even once to ask how I was doing.

This broke my heart man, I hope a miracle happens and for the damage to be undone... You're a strong and good person, I can tell from the way in which you have been able to process this traumatic experience.
 
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paulus1

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Hi Cargo, where r u from in the benelux? and what surgeons did you consult so far? I'm from Antwerp
 
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Anonymous999 said:
I am unfortunately not able to recommend Dr. Y in any form after my back-to-back infections with him + his complete lack of empathy and care for me as a patient.

I do not recommend stacking in any form either. Just get new implants if you want more augmentation. You don't want to be "paper mache," especially on your cheeks. You will end up living out life feeling fragile about the stability of your cheeks. You want strong, solid implants for your midface.

You're actually "lucky" that your midface soft tissue will have been stretched slightly from your current augmentation. This will afford you to go 7-9mm zygoma for your second implant design. (I have 7.4 and 8.2 and am very confident about my malar now.) I remember reading a post of Eppley's where he said he's designed cheek implants as thick as 9mm.

After you get new XXL malar, you might not even feel like you need eye work done, as you'll look strikingly better. But if you do choose to go that route, seek out a specialist who is not Dr. Y. There are tons of surgeons in the world. Just do your research.

You'll make your own decisions in the end. Just take my input about Dr. Y here as the luckiest warning you could have received in life.

Thanks for the advice. The only reason I am/was partial to going back to Dr. Y for my midface implant revision surgery is because the actual design of the implants he created for me is so good -- it's just that they're not big enough. Just out of curiosity, what surgeons would you recommend considering? Do you think the best plan is likely to just send my design file to Eppley, have him fabricate new versions of the exact same implants with 2-3 mm of additional augmentation (I.e., leave the actual design unchanged - just add more projection), and then have him do the surgery?
 
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SurgerySoon said:
Thanks for the advice. The only reason I am/was partial to going back to Dr. Y for my midface implant revision surgery is because the actual design of the implants he created for me is so good -- it's just that they're not big enough. Just out of curiosity, what surgeons would you recommend considering? Do you think the best plan is likely to just send my design file to Eppley, have him fabricate new versions of the exact same implants with 2-3 mm of additional augmentation (I.e., leave the actual design unchanged - just add more projection), and then have him do the surgery?

Just out of curiosity. How much money have you spend so far for the implants with dr Y including revision?
 
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Ascensionrequired said:
Just out of curiosity. How much money have you spend so far for the implants with dr Y including revision?

About $20k; haven't done any revisions yet. That includes the cost of designing custom midface and wraparound jaw implants, as well as to place the midface implants and the chin portion of the wraparound implant (I had been planning on going back to Dr. Y soon to have the rest of the jaw implant placed until reading this thread gave me pause). I also had submental lipectomy (double chin fat removal) performed.
 
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Adrenochrome @Adrenochrome Hey I would also Like a discord invite to your server. Honestly from reading all these posts, God Bless you ! and you did not deserve any of this mental/physical trauma. If I was you, I would sue these grossly incompetent surgeons that performed implants on your face. Nice guys like you don't deserve any of this.
 
CopingCel

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I'd like a discord invite as well, if possible
 
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No pics rodeblurmaxx no care
 
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Sorry for the bump

How is it to have the masseter detached?

I mean, its painful?

What do you see, aesthetically speaking, asymmetry on face?

Can it be solved and does it happen on surgery or can happen randomly after?

Sorry for the questions, i dont understand well how fucked the situation is.
 
spain

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spain said:
Sorry for the bump

How is it to have the masseter detached?

I mean, its painful?

What do you see, aesthetically speaking, asymmetry on face?

Can it be solved and does it happen on surgery or can happen randomly after?

Sorry for the questions, i dont understand well how fucked the situation is.
Adrenochrome @Adrenochrome
 
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Eppley seems to have a reputation of producing too extreme results. However, could it be that because Eppley has this reputation, he gets patients that are actually trying to get these unnatural results? If so, then it's not Eppley's fault - he just delivers what patients want. What I am asking is that can Eppley deliver if I want a natural-looking jaw implant? If I want a wide and angular jaw, but not comically wide superman jaw, can Eppley deliver?

Yaremchuk seems to deliver natural-looking results, but sometimes they might a bit too conservative. Also, some posts seem to indicate that he isn't the most approachable surgeon. However, I have seen some good results from Yaremchuk.
 
reptiles

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Adrenochrome said:
READ IT IN ITS ENTIRETY

As I wrote from previous thread: I got a custom Peek jaw and chin wraparound with a specialized genioplasty that fits within the chin portion of the peek to make a natural mentolabial fold by Dr. Defrancq.

Essential background that led to my choice of Dr. Defrancq:
If you’re familiar with my
situation, then you know that previously, I had a custom silicone jaw/chin wraparound designed by and surgery with Dr. Y that did not go as planned: I incurred infection and everything had to be removed.

Regarding Dr. Y. There are two important distinctions that I wish to make:

1. Dr. Y. as an individual, I liked (even though he was NOT transparent with me: more on that later).

Nobody can beat his design aesthetic: I prepared for months with drafts and photos of the exact aesthetic I wanted. We worked together and he nailed it! Yes, I was able to model and yes I was breaking f*cking necks whenever I went out (night and day difference).

However... and to my second point

2. The overall service was garbage and I would not go back for the life of me.

Really, just outstandingly incompetent staff (desk bimbos) who should be serving fries at McDonald’s instead of handling clients large money transfers or trying to coordinate patients surgical plans (dates, times, medications, proper instruction) you know ... the stuff you actually need to have a successful surgical outcome! (Ridiculously low IQ) although there was one office girl I liked.

Infection period:
To make a long story short, Dr. Y. Stood by me and his word... to an extent.

He removed the infected implant ”free” less the cost of the anesthesiologist (read that as $4,000 usd + cost of operating theatre $800) However, the issue is that I had to do this twice because the first time was for a culture sample to see if it was an actual infection (sounds good right? But wait a minute) it was actually really stupid because I was taking antibiotics at that time which would have and did skew the test to read negative (no infection) when there actually WAS an infection in the end.

So... two procedures for removal that had a nice price tag of $8000 for the anesthesiologist + cost of using the operating theater twice $1600 for a whopping total of $8,800 (no I didn’t mess that up as Dr. Y. Comped me on the last theater use -nice I guess?) but I want you guys to understand the total cost of our endeavors:

original surgery with Y. was 19k (custom cheeks, jaw/chin) and then add on the removal cost of 8k and this isn’t counting travel logistics (I had to fly back and forth about 6 times and 2 of those times were from across the other part of the world I.e. my plane tickets were averaging $1200) and then you have to factor in hotels (my original procedure I stayed about 1 week in Boston for $800 a night) .... you see where I’m going with this....

You really need to prepare for every possible scenario and have a financial contingency plan in place.

Now ...

With everything removed, I was on the road to recovery (read that as 6 months down time) which actually turned into 2 years for the following reasons:

In short, that infection ruined everything: place I was living in abroad (had to come home), opportunities (documentary I was going to be featured in), my own projects, financials obviously, time and my health (physical and emotional well-being) -terrible experience -you never want to go through something like this EVER.

I could have gone back to Dr. Y. after 6 months to try again for the cost of the anesthesiologist and operating theater again: $4800 but...

I knew there had to be a better way and my intent was to minimize as much risk as possible. Silicone had mentally scarred me and was off my list for the jaw/chin area. 6 months of research on implant materials and surgeons turned into 2 years; spanning from the most invasive of jaw surgery with Gunson from Arnett and Gunson to the least invasive (fillers - you’ve all seen those Dr’s who are like wizards with that stuff, insane).

I went on consults to Zarrinbal in Berlin (complete waste of time for me personally) to multiple Skype consults with different surgeons all over the world.

At one point, I even thought “fuck it” I’m just going to get my eye area done with Taban and forget about the chin/jaw because eye area is just as, if not more important than jaw (I know highly debatable) and I wouldn’t have to worry about infection but... I knew what that jaw implant had got me (endless opportunities) and I’ve never forgotten that ... EVER... I tasted my dream and it was snatched away from me in an instant but I’m getting it back no matter what!


That brings me to Defrancq ... the best source of reliable information comes from first hand accounts and I’m across many different surgical forums. My one friend had a disastrous surgery with Dr. Brusco from Switzerland (yeah the guy who uses Titanium for jaw implants and learned how to do chin wings from Triaca).

Well Brusco obliterated his jaw bone (literally leaving pieces of it “floating“ around) and aesthetically ruined him .... I’m thinking fuck man, this is it ... he might actually rope (it was his 3rd or 4th revision) and at that time I was saturated with too many options (overloaded).

So... My friends saving grace? You guessed it, Defrancq. Defrancq pieced him up and got him level again. I’m thinking if this guy can turn my friend around proper then at least I have a chance.

Checked out his website and saw that he uses PEEK (check mark), see that he’s a maxillofacial surgeon and not a plastic surgeon (check mark and read that), see that he’s done many decent cases and has some age on him but not too much where it’s concerning to me (check mark) *everyone asking me about his age, yes he’s older but quite cognitively adept with acute surgical dexterity to match (I would not trust my face to him otherwise)

I contacted him and we talked for about a month discussing my situation (his proposals and my thoughts: only implants or only bone cuts or implants + bone cuts) and what could be done to correct it safely. In the end he suggested peek implants for the jaw/chin combined with a special geniolasty that would augment the labiomental fold naturally within the chin part of the peek implant. Also, this would greatly expand my airway and reduce the chance for developing sleep apnea in the future.

So... you see, form and function (beautiful). Now, design-wise (this is where Y. Comes in again) because I knew exactly what I wanted (partly my former design as I already knew how I would look) and showed Defrancq my original Silicone implant draft -he was able to draft his own version of it but changed the taper of the gonial angles to be more natural (which is what I wanted) so it was perfect for me.

However, (someone else mentioned he’s stubborn and a little tricky to deal with -I can confirm both) he tried to change my mind on the implant design like 2 weeks before surgery, after I already told him that I wanted design A back in November and we both agreed upon it... (he wanted to rework the gonial angles again and initially I agreed) but it was just dragging on (4 days before surgery! Can you believe that? Stressed me the FO) and didn’t meet my aesthetic standards, so I told him directly to go back to design A (which he did without problem). Although the whole thing was a little strange.

A pre-surgical consult is required the day before your surgery or he will not operate on you (it is an hour long minimum).
We went through all the details of how the surgery was going to be executed (poor choice of words ha).

I was even shown my PEEK implants and got to hold each piece while we discussed them (I’m kicking myself for not taking photos!)
The PEEK is SUPER lightweight and the material looks very cool in person. I was surprised by literally how small each piece is.

My experience so far has been superior (metaphorically mogs America in service... HARD) in fact, I would say America (from my personal experience) has thee lowest service standard, it’s disgusting really (feel like I got scammed at one of “top docs” in America with that silicone wraparound).

*will detail moments before surgery (morning of and talking with anesthesiologist etc...) to the post surgery care and my current state of care later (way too tired now and need to rest). Ask any questions relating to this thread that haven’t already been discussed above and I’ll answer each one of them when I’ve the time.


The down time man is fucking awful man 2 years just to fix this shit combined with infection risks
 
patricknotstar

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Adrenochrome said:
READ IT IN ITS ENTIRETY

As I wrote from previous thread: I got a custom Peek jaw and chin wraparound with a specialized genioplasty that fits within the chin portion of the peek to make a natural mentolabial fold by Dr. Defrancq.

Essential background that led to my choice of Dr. Defrancq:
If you’re familiar with my
situation, then you know that previously, I had a custom silicone jaw/chin wraparound designed by and surgery with Dr. Y that did not go as planned: I incurred infection and everything had to be removed.

Regarding Dr. Y. There are two important distinctions that I wish to make:

1. Dr. Y. as an individual, I liked (even though he was NOT transparent with me: more on that later).

Nobody can beat his design aesthetic: I prepared for months with drafts and photos of the exact aesthetic I wanted. We worked together and he nailed it! Yes, I was able to model and yes I was breaking f*cking necks whenever I went out (night and day difference).

However... and to my second point

2. The overall service was garbage and I would not go back for the life of me.

Really, just outstandingly incompetent staff (desk bimbos) who should be serving fries at McDonald’s instead of handling clients large money transfers or trying to coordinate patients surgical plans (dates, times, medications, proper instruction) you know ... the stuff you actually need to have a successful surgical outcome! (Ridiculously low IQ) although there was one office girl I liked.

Infection period:
To make a long story short, Dr. Y. Stood by me and his word... to an extent.

He removed the infected implant ”free” less the cost of the anesthesiologist (read that as $4,000 usd + cost of operating theatre $800) However, the issue is that I had to do this twice because the first time was for a culture sample to see if it was an actual infection (sounds good right? But wait a minute) it was actually really stupid because I was taking antibiotics at that time which would have and did skew the test to read negative (no infection) when there actually WAS an infection in the end.

So... two procedures for removal that had a nice price tag of $8000 for the anesthesiologist + cost of using the operating theater twice $1600 for a whopping total of $8,800 (no I didn’t mess that up as Dr. Y. Comped me on the last theater use -nice I guess?) but I want you guys to understand the total cost of our endeavors:

original surgery with Y. was 19k (custom cheeks, jaw/chin) and then add on the removal cost of 8k and this isn’t counting travel logistics (I had to fly back and forth about 6 times and 2 of those times were from across the other part of the world I.e. my plane tickets were averaging $1200) and then you have to factor in hotels (my original procedure I stayed about 1 week in Boston for $800 a night) .... you see where I’m going with this....

You really need to prepare for every possible scenario and have a financial contingency plan in place.

Now ...

With everything removed, I was on the road to recovery (read that as 6 months down time) which actually turned into 2 years for the following reasons:

In short, that infection ruined everything: place I was living in abroad (had to come home), opportunities (documentary I was going to be featured in), my own projects, financials obviously, time and my health (physical and emotional well-being) -terrible experience -you never want to go through something like this EVER.

I could have gone back to Dr. Y. after 6 months to try again for the cost of the anesthesiologist and operating theater again: $4800 but...

I knew there had to be a better way and my intent was to minimize as much risk as possible. Silicone had mentally scarred me and was off my list for the jaw/chin area. 6 months of research on implant materials and surgeons turned into 2 years; spanning from the most invasive of jaw surgery with Gunson from Arnett and Gunson to the least invasive (fillers - you’ve all seen those Dr’s who are like wizards with that stuff, insane).

I went on consults to Zarrinbal in Berlin (complete waste of time for me personally) to multiple Skype consults with different surgeons all over the world.

At one point, I even thought “fuck it” I’m just going to get my eye area done with Taban and forget about the chin/jaw because eye area is just as, if not more important than jaw (I know highly debatable) and I wouldn’t have to worry about infection but... I knew what that jaw implant had got me (endless opportunities) and I’ve never forgotten that ... EVER... I tasted my dream and it was snatched away from me in an instant but I’m getting it back no matter what!


That brings me to Defrancq ... the best source of reliable information comes from first hand accounts and I’m across many different surgical forums. My one friend had a disastrous surgery with Dr. Brusco from Switzerland (yeah the guy who uses Titanium for jaw implants and learned how to do chin wings from Triaca).

Well Brusco obliterated his jaw bone (literally leaving pieces of it “floating“ around) and aesthetically ruined him .... I’m thinking fuck man, this is it ... he might actually rope (it was his 3rd or 4th revision) and at that time I was saturated with too many options (overloaded).

So... My friends saving grace? You guessed it, Defrancq. Defrancq pieced him up and got him level again. I’m thinking if this guy can turn my friend around proper then at least I have a chance.

Checked out his website and saw that he uses PEEK (check mark), see that he’s a maxillofacial surgeon and not a plastic surgeon (check mark and read that), see that he’s done many decent cases and has some age on him but not too much where it’s concerning to me (check mark) *everyone asking me about his age, yes he’s older but quite cognitively adept with acute surgical dexterity to match (I would not trust my face to him otherwise)

I contacted him and we talked for about a month discussing my situation (his proposals and my thoughts: only implants or only bone cuts or implants + bone cuts) and what could be done to correct it safely. In the end he suggested peek implants for the jaw/chin combined with a special geniolasty that would augment the labiomental fold naturally within the chin part of the peek implant. Also, this would greatly expand my airway and reduce the chance for developing sleep apnea in the future.

So... you see, form and function (beautiful). Now, design-wise (this is where Y. Comes in again) because I knew exactly what I wanted (partly my former design as I already knew how I would look) and showed Defrancq my original Silicone implant draft -he was able to draft his own version of it but changed the taper of the gonial angles to be more natural (which is what I wanted) so it was perfect for me.

However, (someone else mentioned he’s stubborn and a little tricky to deal with -I can confirm both) he tried to change my mind on the implant design like 2 weeks before surgery, after I already told him that I wanted design A back in November and we both agreed upon it... (he wanted to rework the gonial angles again and initially I agreed) but it was just dragging on (4 days before surgery! Can you believe that? Stressed me the FO) and didn’t meet my aesthetic standards, so I told him directly to go back to design A (which he did without problem). Although the whole thing was a little strange.

A pre-surgical consult is required the day before your surgery or he will not operate on you (it is an hour long minimum).
We went through all the details of how the surgery was going to be executed (poor choice of words ha).

I was even shown my PEEK implants and got to hold each piece while we discussed them (I’m kicking myself for not taking photos!)
The PEEK is SUPER lightweight and the material looks very cool in person. I was surprised by literally how small each piece is.

My experience so far has been superior (metaphorically mogs America in service... HARD) in fact, I would say America (from my personal experience) has thee lowest service standard, it’s disgusting really (feel like I got scammed at one of “top docs” in America with that silicone wraparound).

*will detail moments before surgery (morning of and talking with anesthesiologist etc...) to the post surgery care and my current state of care later (way too tired now and need to rest). Ask any questions relating to this thread that haven’t already been discussed above and I’ll answer each one of them when I’ve the time.
How are u going to travel during covid
 
Cretinous

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OP's post makes Defrancq sound like a conscientious and thorough individual.

Teenagers with wild dreams in their head don't get this because they lack maturity and perspective, but that's so important guys, especially since you are literally placing your life in the hands of this person.
 
randomvanish

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Adrenochrome said:
My thought process behind designing my implant was intense and highly personal: I chose around 8 different individuals faces who I admired aesthetically and in the first process of elimination literally superimposed their jaw/chin onto mine using photoshop.

It did not matter whose face I admired the most as I was looking for which features fit my face best (looked natural as my own). As it so happened, my highest regarded individual, aesthetically speaking, matched my lower third in all respects (it was beautiful) and at that point; I knew I had the foundational framework to begin designing my implant the way I wanted.

I used that framework and slightly fine tuned all aspects of the design to my own visage (gonial angle degree, Ramus length, horizontal width, vertical drop and projection length of chin etc...) *i could have left all the aforesaid variables alone and used the superimposed model by itself but it’s not how I operate (everything in my life is highly personalized).

it turned out really good too... so good in fact, that I tried to use the same technique with my eye area! It was much more difficult than my lower third and there were some grotesque mockups looking back at them (if someone saw those work ups without a frame of reference, I’m sure their first thought would be this person is mentally ill). Digressing a bit but, after about 30 trial and errors, I found one that was a decent match (eye area) but in the end I binned it and designed a completely custom eye area via photoshop using just my face (this version is perfect for me and is the one I used in my Taban consult -He said he can get me 75% there) and if this jaw endeavor goes well then we shall see what Taban can do (that will be it for me - no more surgery after eyes).

Back to your queries: price for Y was already mentioned above -honestly just read the whole thing, it might save you many lost years brother.... I don’t want you or anyone else to have to go through what I did -God ... it affects me in so many different ways now (research, research, research) that’s why I’m writing all of this -it’s free first hand information (invaluable!)

Price for Defrancq: I want to say this first, I still stand by my statement that we shouldn’t be posting prices on here... if you’ve been in this game long enough, then you understand and know that posted prices affect future markets (I’ve seen it before many times). However, (and very unfortunately) it seems this forum doesn’t care... so I’ll post it: all my procedures with Defrancq were 13k Euro (this included the surgeons fee of course) but also: staying in a private room at the clinic for 1 week with in house food service catered to you (I’ll take some photos of the meals if people are interested?) *you can literally ask for anything to be prepared for you and it’ll be done or bought at a local restaurant (phenomenal service) and food is delicious. You also get a private nurse the first two days/nights and then rotating nurses after that but there is also one individual assigned to you specifically from the get go (think of them as your patient coordinator and person who oversees each patient on the floor) -To me, these individuals are invaluable resources if you’re concerned about safety and also expect excellent service like myself. Also included was the cost for the implant fabrication/production.

So... all in all, I was very satisfied with my proposal.

Yes, I did local modeling (in East Asia) and the only reason I didn’t push further was because of my infection (sky was the limit). I was also casted for a documentary about foreigners living abroad 1 week before I had to fly back home for removal because of infection (shit crushed me). That was me tasting 15 minutes of fame at that point (I literally had a TV crew jump me as I walked off my flight. It was the most intense experience ever - 2 TV cameras surrounding you, big production lights, mic booms and I was tag teamed by 2 presenters!) -everything was being recorded live -can you imagine that scenario walking off your flight and totally ambushed (literally I was in a daze but it came natural after a few minutes) - everyone in that part of the airport stopped and started surrounding us (me and this TV crew) for sure I saw people taking photos and the group gradually got bigger -THAT is when I KNEW (just reconfirmed) that this look was going to get me where I wanted to be! I’ll never forget it.


Smart moves friend, seems you’re another LMS thoroughbred.

Cheers,


You’re absolutely right but I’m sorry brother, I can’t post any of my photos here. It’s too early for one (I’m SUPER swollen) with lips like IG whores and two, it’s really about privacy... this is a PSL forum. I think a lot of you guys are legit (people like me who just want to be the best physical version of themselves, who will do anything to attain it) but ... there’s unfortunately a lot of mental illness that runs rampant here too (doxxers, twisted people who just want to be malicious because they have larceny in their hearts etc...) so I don’t trust it. Sorry that those few ruined it for the majority of legit thoroughbreds here.

My suggestion is to look at SAL123’s thread again (shout out to Sal123 @Sal123 who had phenomenal results and was part of the inspiration for choosing Defrancq) and use it as a frame of reference with the information I’ve provided here. These two threads should provide a powerful lens into what you could expect if you chose our surgeon.
thank you for thread but you still not explanining how design process gone?

what dr.y or you consider to get it done ?

Like which gonial angle, how many width to add, mathcing with other proportions etc. How you decided all ?
 
TioJohn

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B @badg96 lifefuel
 
Adrenochrome

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My my my… it’s been quite some time my dear friends.

Just logged in for the first time in months… perhaps even a year but I digress… hope you are all doing well on your paths to ascension.

Unfortunately I am still walking mine… PEEK is excellent and I’d rather not settle for anything less regarding my lower third, however US surgeons lack the ability to not only perform with the aforementioned but also to source it: E stated he can use any material but once I put down my deposit for surgery, he reneged and stated he could not source it and would not be offering it anymore (if anyone has updated information on this i.e. this month, do tell). So, rather than settling for subpar material a’la silicone, axed the entire surgery 🪓

With that being said, I’ve decided to focus on my eye area now before delving deep into the abyss of the lower third (that is truly hell).

I had scheduled surgery with Dr. Taban (everything was set and flew out there), however, once in his office for the “pre inspection” before surgery, he stated that in order to achieve what I wanted, it would be 30k now and involve the orbital box osteotomy… This had me taken aback as I’d not planned to drop an extra 8-10k, nor bare the brunt of a much more brutal procedure which entailed more risk (to which I am averse) and more downtime for recovery.

I bowed out, returned home and reassessed. Now… I am pooling all resources to expedite this “adventure” but am curious if anyone here has ventured via
box osteotomy to new windows of the soul 🪟 👁 🎭

Also… have we found any new surgeons aside from Taban who encompass his surgical prowess? (I presume not but would love to be surprised).

NOTE: Fuck Defrancq 💯 he did not hold up his end of the deal which was to operate on me again if I waited until one year after the date of my surgery (obviously we are far past that mark!). Such a disappointment, now I’ve to find a surgeon who is able and ready to perform with PEEK (flawless execution mind you). Sailor would be the only one at this time. Conversely, settle for subpar material (silicone) which I do not want.

I do NOT advise anyone here to entangle themselves with such a deceptive individual a’la Mr. Defrancq.
 
metagross

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I wish you good luck OP. Must be especially brutal to be so close to ascension only to have it snatched away because of infection and subsequent failed surgeries.
Is it really that hard to find a good surgeon who works with PEEK and doesn't fail?
 
Adrenochrome

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metagross said:
I wish you good luck OP. Must be especially brutal to be so close to ascension only to have it snatched away because of infection and subsequent failed surgeries.
Is it really that hard to find a good surgeon who works with PEEK and doesn't fail?
Thanks very much friend 🙏🏼

***I must make an amendment as I cannot edit my original reply: Orbital Decompression (not box osteotomy) drastically different procedures.

As to your query… it would seem so! US surgeons are so lackadaisical and laissez faire concerning the utilization/implementation of different implant material it vexes me to no end. It’s simply… “Silicone” or medpore… no Titanium, no PEEK etc.

Then you’ve European surgeons with their colosseum sized egos spewing their ideal aesthetic, shrouded in passive aggressive hollow blocks; you’ve to walk a fine line lest you shatter their foundation and they all but crumble (I’ll say with the exception of ).

Fuck them all tbh: we’re in a time where we should be far advanced from our current position with respect to aesthetic procedures. Also not beholden to the same select surgeons in such a limited sphere (which thus limits our options).

Not to wax poetic but I suppose it’s analogous to being a slave/peasant in our current paradigm of neo feudalism; we’re suppressed from the latest technology/innovation and not privy to those things that our masters above so carelessly enjoy. Perhaps if one were at the reigns of power such as that bozo Bezos, then you could have thee absolute superlative surgeon with the thee most modern biocompatible material (surely both of the aforesaid are currently presently available, albeit for a select few).

In any case it doesn’t matter: curious as to what you’re looking to have done or have already done metagross @metagross

I’m fairly certain Taban can deliver acceptable results (perhaps slightly underwhelming) I don’t think he’s worth 30k but it is what it is.
 
AlexChase89

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Welcome back man. Coincidentally I also logged on for the first time in forever this week. Did you have all the peek implants removed? And I know a very good surgeon in the US who uses custom titanium in the mandible, but I'm not sure whether he'd push things to the dimensions you'd be looking for and he's not the easiest person to consult and collaborate with (extremely busy practice, consults are very short)
 
Adrenochrome

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Good to see you M8🤟🏼🖤

No I still have them (far better with than without)

I’m very intrigued… who is this you speak of? (feel free to pm if you don’t want to drop publicly). It would definitely be worth a consult to see if we’re on or can reach the same wave 🌊

How have you been and what’s the word with you?
 
AlexChase89

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Adrenochrome said:
Good to see you M8🤟🏼🖤

No I still have them (far better with than without)

I’m very intrigued… who is this you speak of? (feel free to pm if you don’t want to drop publicly). It would definitely be worth a consult to see if we’re on or can reach the same wave 🌊

How have you been and what’s the word with you?
Sent a pm. I'm doin good man, just riding this crypto market and looking for a new house
 
OldVirgin

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Before/after photos? At least of jaw
 

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