TheRealitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.
take the reality pill.
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@superpsycho my truecel brotha
Table Of Contents:
Introduction:
Requirements:
Surgeries:
LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
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A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
- Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
- Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
- If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
- You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
- Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
- Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
- It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
- If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
- Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.
Reality Level:
You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.
Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World
Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeonsthec4llective.com
Knowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery
You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...looksmax.org
View attachment 3658646 Price:
OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeonOften requires international travel to find qualified surgeonsAdditional $10k-20k for planning and custom implantsHidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
- Improves orbital rim projection
- Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
- One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area
- Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
- Extreme swelling that lasts months
- Potential for horrible scarring
- Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
- Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
- Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery
Reality Level:
This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)
On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery
Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...
Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and countryLefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancementLefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proofHidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
- Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
- Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
- Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
- Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
- Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
- Potential for sinus issues for life
- If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
- Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"
Reality Level:
Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world
On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...Le Fort III Osteotomy
Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...
Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)View attachment 3658646 Price:
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and countryHealth insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apneaHidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
- Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
- Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
- Results are permanent (unless you get botched)
- Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
- Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
- Eating through a syringe for weeks
- Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
- If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
- Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
- Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time
Reality Level:
If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.Failed bimax by Italian surgeon
Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...
CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
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A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery packageUsually combined with other procedures, rarely done aloneMost surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planningHidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision fundsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
- Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
- Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
- Creates more masculine angles in facial structure
- Extremely complex, high risk of complications
- Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
- Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
- Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
- Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
- Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position
Reality Level:
If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.
PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
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Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.
Testosterone (Test):
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The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/monthUGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/monthAncillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additionalHidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- The most researched PED with decades of medical usage
- Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery
- Reduces body fat when diet is in check
- Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users
- Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed
- Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed
- Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure
- Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)
- Legal issues in most countries without prescription
- Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage
Reality Level:
Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...
TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood workOnline TRT clinic: $100-200/monthInsurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Legal when prescribed by a physician
- Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T
- More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids
- Medical supervision reduces health risks
- May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone
- Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal
- Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms
- Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off
- Natural testosterone production shuts down completely
- Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)
- Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)
- Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects
Reality Level:
Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.
The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.
The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.
Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
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A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Improved skin quality and collagen production
- Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users- Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused
- Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Extremely expensive for real results
- Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed
- Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance
- Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)
- Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits
- Daily injections required indefinitely
- High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features
- These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic
Reality Level:
The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.
The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.
Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.
The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)
Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
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A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
Masteron: $50-120/monthProviron: $30-70/monthPrimobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplementsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Muscle hardening and dry appearance
- Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects
- Reduced water retention compared to other compounds
- Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle
- Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds
- Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye
- Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)
- Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds
- Most require injectable testosterone base anyway
- Often faked due to their popularity and price
Reality Level:
DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.Exposing DHT
Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)
Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...
Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Convenience of oral administration (no injections)
- Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol
- Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects
- Fast-acting results visible within weeks
- Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation
- Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket
- Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively
- Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles
- Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash
- Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost
- Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)
Reality Level:
Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar
Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...
Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/monthAdditional Test base: $20-60/monthHidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds
- Extreme hardening effect on physique
- Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)
- Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase
- Results visible much faster than most other compounds
- Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons
- Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"
- Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares
- Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression
- Respiratory issues ("tren cough")
- Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido
- and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.
Reality Level:
If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.
The Reality of PEDs:
The Overall Reality:
TL;DR:
shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.
Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.
btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.
TheRealitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.
take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105
@superpsycho my truecel brotha
Table Of Contents:
Introduction:
Requirements:
Surgeries:
LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
- Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
- Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
- If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
- You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
- Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
- Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
- It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
- If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
- Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.
Reality Level:
You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World
Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening SurgeonsKnowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery
You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeonOften requires international travel to find qualified surgeonsAdditional $10k-20k for planning and custom implantsHidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
- Improves orbital rim projection
- Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
- One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area
- Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
- Extreme swelling that lasts months
- Potential for horrible scarring
- Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
- Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
- Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery
Reality Level:
This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)
On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery
Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...
Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and countryLefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancementLefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proofHidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
- Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
- Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
- Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
- Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
- Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
- Potential for sinus issues for life
- If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
- Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"
Reality Level:
Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world
On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...Le Fort III Osteotomy
Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...
Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)View attachment 3658646 Price:
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and countryHealth insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apneaHidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
- Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
- Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
- Results are permanent (unless you get botched)
- Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
- Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
- Eating through a syringe for weeks
- Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
- If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
- Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
- Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time
Reality Level:
If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.Failed bimax by Italian surgeon
Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...
CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery packageUsually combined with other procedures, rarely done aloneMost surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planningHidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision fundsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
- Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
- Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
- Creates more masculine angles in facial structure
- Extremely complex, high risk of complications
- Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
- Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
- Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
- Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
- Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position
Reality Level:
If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.
PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.
Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/monthUGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/monthAncillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additionalHidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- The most researched PED with decades of medical usage
- Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery
- Reduces body fat when diet is in check
- Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users
- Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed
- Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed
- Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure
- Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)
- Legal issues in most countries without prescription
- Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage
Reality Level:
Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...
TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood workOnline TRT clinic: $100-200/monthInsurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Legal when prescribed by a physician
- Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T
- More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids
- Medical supervision reduces health risks
- May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone
- Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal
- Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms
- Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off
- Natural testosterone production shuts down completely
- Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)
- Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)
- Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects
Reality Level:
Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.
The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.
The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.
Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Improved skin quality and collagen production
- Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users- Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused
- Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Extremely expensive for real results
- Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed
- Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance
- Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)
- Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits
- Daily injections required indefinitely
- High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features
- These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic
Reality Level:
The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.
The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.
Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.
The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)
Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
Masteron: $50-120/monthProviron: $30-70/monthPrimobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplementsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Muscle hardening and dry appearance
- Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects
- Reduced water retention compared to other compounds
- Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle
- Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds
- Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye
- Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)
- Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds
- Most require injectable testosterone base anyway
- Often faked due to their popularity and price
Reality Level:
DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.Exposing DHT
Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)
Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...
Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Convenience of oral administration (no injections)
- Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol
- Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects
- Fast-acting results visible within weeks
- Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation
- Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket
- Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively
- Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles
- Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash
- Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost
- Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)
Reality Level:
Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar
Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...
Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/monthAdditional Test base: $20-60/monthHidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds
- Extreme hardening effect on physique
- Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)
- Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase
- Results visible much faster than most other compounds
- Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons
- Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"
- Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares
- Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression
- Respiratory issues ("tren cough")
- Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido
- and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.
Reality Level:
If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.
The Reality of PEDs:
The Overall Reality:
TL;DR:
shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.
Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.
btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.
TheRealitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.
take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105
@superpsycho my truecel brotha
Table Of Contents:
Introduction:
Requirements:
Surgeries:
LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
- Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
- Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
- If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
- You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
- Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
- Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
- It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
- If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
- Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.
Reality Level:
You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World
Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening SurgeonsKnowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery
You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeonOften requires international travel to find qualified surgeonsAdditional $10k-20k for planning and custom implantsHidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
- Improves orbital rim projection
- Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
- One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area
- Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
- Extreme swelling that lasts months
- Potential for horrible scarring
- Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
- Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
- Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery
Reality Level:
This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)
On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery
Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...
Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and countryLefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancementLefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proofHidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
- Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
- Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
- Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
- Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
- Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
- Potential for sinus issues for life
- If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
- Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"
Reality Level:
Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world
On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...Le Fort III Osteotomy
Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...
Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)View attachment 3658646 Price:
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and countryHealth insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apneaHidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
- Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
- Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
- Results are permanent (unless you get botched)
- Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
- Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
- Eating through a syringe for weeks
- Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
- If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
- Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
- Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time
Reality Level:
If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.Failed bimax by Italian surgeon
Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...
CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery packageUsually combined with other procedures, rarely done aloneMost surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planningHidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision fundsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
- Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
- Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
- Creates more masculine angles in facial structure
- Extremely complex, high risk of complications
- Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
- Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
- Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
- Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
- Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position
Reality Level:
If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.
PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.
Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/monthUGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/monthAncillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additionalHidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- The most researched PED with decades of medical usage
- Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery
- Reduces body fat when diet is in check
- Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users
- Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed
- Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed
- Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure
- Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)
- Legal issues in most countries without prescription
- Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage
Reality Level:
Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...
TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood workOnline TRT clinic: $100-200/monthInsurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Legal when prescribed by a physician
- Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T
- More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids
- Medical supervision reduces health risks
- May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone
- Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal
- Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms
- Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off
- Natural testosterone production shuts down completely
- Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)
- Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)
- Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects
Reality Level:
Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.
The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.
The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.
Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Improved skin quality and collagen production
- Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users- Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused
- Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Extremely expensive for real results
- Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed
- Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance
- Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)
- Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits
- Daily injections required indefinitely
- High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features
- These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic
Reality Level:
The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.
The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.
Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.
The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)
Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
Masteron: $50-120/monthProviron: $30-70/monthPrimobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplementsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Muscle hardening and dry appearance
- Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects
- Reduced water retention compared to other compounds
- Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle
- Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds
- Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye
- Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)
- Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds
- Most require injectable testosterone base anyway
- Often faked due to their popularity and price
Reality Level:
DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.Exposing DHT
Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)
Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...
Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Convenience of oral administration (no injections)
- Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol
- Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects
- Fast-acting results visible within weeks
- Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation
- Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket
- Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively
- Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles
- Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash
- Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost
- Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)
Reality Level:
Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar
Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...
Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/monthAdditional Test base: $20-60/monthHidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds
- Extreme hardening effect on physique
- Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)
- Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase
- Results visible much faster than most other compounds
- Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons
- Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"
- Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares
- Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression
- Respiratory issues ("tren cough")
- Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido
- and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.
Reality Level:
If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.
The Reality of PEDs:
The Overall Reality:
TL;DR:
shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.
Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.
btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.
Wtf im scaredOP please read the following thread I made :
I got 6 surgeries, including Bimax, Rhinoplasty, Hair Transplant, Bleph (Hunter Eye Surgery), and Fat Transfer (Pictures). Insane surgerymaxxing
Here is a spoon picture of me post my Rhinoplasty, Nosejob, Hunter Eye surgery, and Hair transplant. You can clearly see the graft scabs in my bald head and bandages on my nose and around my eyes. This cost 8.5K in Turkey Here is my Hospital Bill for my Jaw Surgery (Bimax) last June. It cost...
I got 6 surgeries :
Bimax (lefort 1 with CW rotation)
Rhinoplasty
Hair Transplant
Gynocomastia Surgery
Blepharoplasty
Fat Transfer
I would like to hear your thoughts on what I did.
OP please read the following thread I made :
I got 6 surgeries, including Bimax, Rhinoplasty, Hair Transplant, Bleph (Hunter Eye Surgery), and Fat Transfer (Pictures). Insane surgerymaxxing
Here is a spoon picture of me post my Rhinoplasty, Nosejob, Hunter Eye surgery, and Hair transplant. You can clearly see the graft scabs in my bald head and bandages on my nose and around my eyes. This cost 8.5K in Turkey Here is my Hospital Bill for my Jaw Surgery (Bimax) last June. It cost...
I got 6 surgeries :
Bimax (lefort 1 with CW rotation)
Rhinoplasty
Hair Transplant
Gynocomastia Surgery
Blepharoplasty
Fat Transfer
I would like to hear your thoughts on what I did.
It is fixable, just that you won't do it
no surgery for my mind and bank accountIt is fixable, just that you won't do it
Actually you can get a lobotomy
TheRealitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.
take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105
@superpsycho my truecel brotha
Table Of Contents:
Introduction:
Requirements:
Surgeries:
LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
- Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
- Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
- If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
- You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
- Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
- Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
- It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
- If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
- Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.
Reality Level:
You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World
Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening SurgeonsKnowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery
You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeonOften requires international travel to find qualified surgeonsAdditional $10k-20k for planning and custom implantsHidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
- Improves orbital rim projection
- Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
- One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area
- Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
- Extreme swelling that lasts months
- Potential for horrible scarring
- Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
- Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
- Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery
Reality Level:
This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)
On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery
Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...
Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and countryLefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancementLefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proofHidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
- Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
- Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
- Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
- Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
- Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
- Potential for sinus issues for life
- If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
- Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"
Reality Level:
Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world
On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...Le Fort III Osteotomy
Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...
Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)View attachment 3658646 Price:
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and countryHealth insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apneaHidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
- Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
- Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
- Results are permanent (unless you get botched)
- Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
- Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
- Eating through a syringe for weeks
- Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
- If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
- Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
- Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time
Reality Level:
If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.Failed bimax by Italian surgeon
Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...
CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery packageUsually combined with other procedures, rarely done aloneMost surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planningHidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision fundsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
- Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
- Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
- Creates more masculine angles in facial structure
- Extremely complex, high risk of complications
- Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
- Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
- Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
- Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
- Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position
Reality Level:
If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.
PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.
Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/monthUGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/monthAncillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additionalHidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- The most researched PED with decades of medical usage
- Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery
- Reduces body fat when diet is in check
- Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users
- Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed
- Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed
- Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure
- Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)
- Legal issues in most countries without prescription
- Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage
Reality Level:
Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...
TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood workOnline TRT clinic: $100-200/monthInsurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Legal when prescribed by a physician
- Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T
- More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids
- Medical supervision reduces health risks
- May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone
- Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal
- Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms
- Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off
- Natural testosterone production shuts down completely
- Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)
- Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)
- Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects
Reality Level:
Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.
The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.
The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.
Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Improved skin quality and collagen production
- Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users- Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused
- Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Extremely expensive for real results
- Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed
- Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance
- Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)
- Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits
- Daily injections required indefinitely
- High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features
- These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic
Reality Level:
The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.
The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.
Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.
The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)
Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
Masteron: $50-120/monthProviron: $30-70/monthPrimobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplementsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Muscle hardening and dry appearance
- Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects
- Reduced water retention compared to other compounds
- Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle
- Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds
- Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye
- Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)
- Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds
- Most require injectable testosterone base anyway
- Often faked due to their popularity and price
Reality Level:
DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.Exposing DHT
Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)
Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...
Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Convenience of oral administration (no injections)
- Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol
- Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects
- Fast-acting results visible within weeks
- Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation
- Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket
- Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively
- Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles
- Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash
- Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost
- Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)
Reality Level:
Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar
Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...
Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/monthAdditional Test base: $20-60/monthHidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds
- Extreme hardening effect on physique
- Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)
- Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase
- Results visible much faster than most other compounds
- Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons
- Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"
- Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares
- Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression
- Respiratory issues ("tren cough")
- Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido
- and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.
Reality Level:
If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.
The Reality of PEDs:
The Overall Reality:
TL;DR:
shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.
Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.
btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.
Dude you're GL
TheRealitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.
take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105
@superpsycho my truecel brotha
Table Of Contents:
Introduction:
Requirements:
Surgeries:
LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
- Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
- Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
- If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
- You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
- Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
- Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
- It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
- If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
- Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.
Reality Level:
You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World
Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening SurgeonsKnowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery
You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeonOften requires international travel to find qualified surgeonsAdditional $10k-20k for planning and custom implantsHidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
- Improves orbital rim projection
- Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
- One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area
- Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
- Extreme swelling that lasts months
- Potential for horrible scarring
- Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
- Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
- Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery
Reality Level:
This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)
On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery
Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...
Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and countryLefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancementLefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proofHidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
- Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
- Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
- Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
- Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
- Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
- Potential for sinus issues for life
- If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
- Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"
Reality Level:
Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world
On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...Le Fort III Osteotomy
Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...
Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)View attachment 3658646 Price:
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and countryHealth insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apneaHidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
- Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
- Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
- Results are permanent (unless you get botched)
- Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
- Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
- Eating through a syringe for weeks
- Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
- If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
- Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
- Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time
Reality Level:
If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.Failed bimax by Italian surgeon
Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...
CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery packageUsually combined with other procedures, rarely done aloneMost surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planningHidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision fundsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
- Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
- Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
- Creates more masculine angles in facial structure
- Extremely complex, high risk of complications
- Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
- Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
- Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
- Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
- Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position
Reality Level:
If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.
PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.
Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/monthUGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/monthAncillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additionalHidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- The most researched PED with decades of medical usage
- Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery
- Reduces body fat when diet is in check
- Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users
- Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed
- Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed
- Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure
- Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)
- Legal issues in most countries without prescription
- Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage
Reality Level:
Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...
TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood workOnline TRT clinic: $100-200/monthInsurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Legal when prescribed by a physician
- Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T
- More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids
- Medical supervision reduces health risks
- May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone
- Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal
- Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms
- Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off
- Natural testosterone production shuts down completely
- Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)
- Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)
- Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects
Reality Level:
Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.
The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.
The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.
Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Improved skin quality and collagen production
- Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users- Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused
- Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Extremely expensive for real results
- Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed
- Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance
- Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)
- Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits
- Daily injections required indefinitely
- High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features
- These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic
Reality Level:
The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.
The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.
Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.
The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)
Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
Masteron: $50-120/monthProviron: $30-70/monthPrimobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplementsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Muscle hardening and dry appearance
- Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects
- Reduced water retention compared to other compounds
- Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle
- Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds
- Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye
- Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)
- Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds
- Most require injectable testosterone base anyway
- Often faked due to their popularity and price
Reality Level:
DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.Exposing DHT
Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)
Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...
Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Convenience of oral administration (no injections)
- Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol
- Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects
- Fast-acting results visible within weeks
- Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation
- Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket
- Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively
- Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles
- Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash
- Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost
- Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)
Reality Level:
Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar
Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...
Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/monthAdditional Test base: $20-60/monthHidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds
- Extreme hardening effect on physique
- Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)
- Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase
- Results visible much faster than most other compounds
- Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons
- Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"
- Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares
- Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression
- Respiratory issues ("tren cough")
- Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido
- and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.
Reality Level:
If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.
The Reality of PEDs:
The Overall Reality:
TL;DR:
shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.
Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.
btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.
gaslightmax.org
TheRealitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.
take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105
@superpsycho my truecel brotha
Table Of Contents:
Introduction:
Requirements:
Surgeries:
LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
- Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
- Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
- If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
- You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
- Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
- Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
- It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
- If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
- Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.
Reality Level:
You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World
Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening SurgeonsKnowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery
You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeonOften requires international travel to find qualified surgeonsAdditional $10k-20k for planning and custom implantsHidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
- Improves orbital rim projection
- Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
- One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area
- Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
- Extreme swelling that lasts months
- Potential for horrible scarring
- Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
- Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
- Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery
Reality Level:
This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)
On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery
Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...
Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and countryLefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancementLefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proofHidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
- Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
- Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
- Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
- Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
- Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
- Potential for sinus issues for life
- If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
- Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"
Reality Level:
Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world
On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...Le Fort III Osteotomy
Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...
Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)View attachment 3658646 Price:
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and countryHealth insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apneaHidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
- Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
- Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
- Results are permanent (unless you get botched)
- Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
- Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
- Eating through a syringe for weeks
- Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
- If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
- Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
- Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time
Reality Level:
If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.Failed bimax by Italian surgeon
Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...
CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery packageUsually combined with other procedures, rarely done aloneMost surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planningHidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision fundsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
- Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
- Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
- Creates more masculine angles in facial structure
- Extremely complex, high risk of complications
- Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
- Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
- Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
- Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
- Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position
Reality Level:
If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.
PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.
Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/monthUGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/monthAncillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additionalHidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- The most researched PED with decades of medical usage
- Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery
- Reduces body fat when diet is in check
- Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users
- Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed
- Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed
- Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure
- Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)
- Legal issues in most countries without prescription
- Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage
Reality Level:
Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...
TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood workOnline TRT clinic: $100-200/monthInsurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Legal when prescribed by a physician
- Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T
- More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids
- Medical supervision reduces health risks
- May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone
- Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal
- Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms
- Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off
- Natural testosterone production shuts down completely
- Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)
- Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)
- Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects
Reality Level:
Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.
The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.
The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.
Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Improved skin quality and collagen production
- Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users- Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused
- Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Extremely expensive for real results
- Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed
- Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance
- Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)
- Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits
- Daily injections required indefinitely
- High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features
- These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic
Reality Level:
The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.
The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.
Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.
The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)
Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
Masteron: $50-120/monthProviron: $30-70/monthPrimobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplementsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Muscle hardening and dry appearance
- Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects
- Reduced water retention compared to other compounds
- Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle
- Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds
- Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye
- Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)
- Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds
- Most require injectable testosterone base anyway
- Often faked due to their popularity and price
Reality Level:
DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.Exposing DHT
Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)
Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...
Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Convenience of oral administration (no injections)
- Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol
- Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects
- Fast-acting results visible within weeks
- Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation
- Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket
- Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively
- Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles
- Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash
- Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost
- Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)
Reality Level:
Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar
Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...
Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/monthAdditional Test base: $20-60/monthHidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds
- Extreme hardening effect on physique
- Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)
- Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase
- Results visible much faster than most other compounds
- Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons
- Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"
- Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares
- Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression
- Respiratory issues ("tren cough")
- Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido
- and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.
Reality Level:
If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.
The Reality of PEDs:
The Overall Reality:
TL;DR:
shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.
Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.
btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.
TheRealitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.
take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105
@superpsycho my truecel brotha
Table Of Contents:
Introduction:
Requirements:
Surgeries:
LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
- Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
- Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
- If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
- You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
- Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
- Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
- It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
- If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
- Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.
Reality Level:
You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World
Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening SurgeonsKnowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery
You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeonOften requires international travel to find qualified surgeonsAdditional $10k-20k for planning and custom implantsHidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
- Improves orbital rim projection
- Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
- One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area
- Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
- Extreme swelling that lasts months
- Potential for horrible scarring
- Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
- Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
- Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery
Reality Level:
This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)
On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery
Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...
Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and countryLefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancementLefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proofHidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
- Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
- Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
- Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
- Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
- Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
- Potential for sinus issues for life
- If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
- Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"
Reality Level:
Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world
On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...Le Fort III Osteotomy
Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...
Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)View attachment 3658646 Price:
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and countryHealth insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apneaHidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
- Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
- Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
- Results are permanent (unless you get botched)
- Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
- Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
- Eating through a syringe for weeks
- Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
- If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
- Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
- Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time
Reality Level:
If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.Failed bimax by Italian surgeon
Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...
CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery packageUsually combined with other procedures, rarely done aloneMost surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planningHidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision fundsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
- Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
- Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
- Creates more masculine angles in facial structure
- Extremely complex, high risk of complications
- Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
- Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
- Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
- Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
- Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position
Reality Level:
If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.
PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.
Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/monthUGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/monthAncillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additionalHidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- The most researched PED with decades of medical usage
- Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery
- Reduces body fat when diet is in check
- Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users
- Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed
- Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed
- Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure
- Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)
- Legal issues in most countries without prescription
- Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage
Reality Level:
Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...
TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood workOnline TRT clinic: $100-200/monthInsurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Legal when prescribed by a physician
- Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T
- More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids
- Medical supervision reduces health risks
- May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone
- Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal
- Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms
- Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off
- Natural testosterone production shuts down completely
- Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)
- Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)
- Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects
Reality Level:
Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.
The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.
The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.
Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Improved skin quality and collagen production
- Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users- Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused
- Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Extremely expensive for real results
- Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed
- Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance
- Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)
- Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits
- Daily injections required indefinitely
- High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features
- These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic
Reality Level:
The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.
The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.
Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.
The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)
Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
Masteron: $50-120/monthProviron: $30-70/monthPrimobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplementsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Muscle hardening and dry appearance
- Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects
- Reduced water retention compared to other compounds
- Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle
- Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds
- Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye
- Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)
- Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds
- Most require injectable testosterone base anyway
- Often faked due to their popularity and price
Reality Level:
DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.Exposing DHT
Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)
Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...
Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Convenience of oral administration (no injections)
- Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol
- Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects
- Fast-acting results visible within weeks
- Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation
- Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket
- Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively
- Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles
- Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash
- Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost
- Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)
Reality Level:
Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar
Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...
Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/monthAdditional Test base: $20-60/monthHidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds
- Extreme hardening effect on physique
- Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)
- Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase
- Results visible much faster than most other compounds
- Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons
- Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"
- Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares
- Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression
- Respiratory issues ("tren cough")
- Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido
- and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.
Reality Level:
If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.
The Reality of PEDs:
The Overall Reality:
TL;DR:
shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.
Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.
btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.
TheRealitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.
take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105
@superpsycho my truecel brotha
Table Of Contents:
Introduction:
Requirements:
Surgeries:
LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
- Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
- Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
- If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
- You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
- Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
- Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
- It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
- If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
- Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.
Reality Level:
You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World
Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening SurgeonsKnowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery
You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeonOften requires international travel to find qualified surgeonsAdditional $10k-20k for planning and custom implantsHidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
- Improves orbital rim projection
- Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
- One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area
- Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
- Extreme swelling that lasts months
- Potential for horrible scarring
- Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
- Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
- Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery
Reality Level:
This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)
On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery
Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...
Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and countryLefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancementLefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proofHidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
- Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
- Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
- Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
- Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
- Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
- Potential for sinus issues for life
- If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
- Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"
Reality Level:
Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world
On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...Le Fort III Osteotomy
Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...
Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)View attachment 3658646 Price:
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and countryHealth insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apneaHidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
- Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
- Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
- Results are permanent (unless you get botched)
- Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
- Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
- Eating through a syringe for weeks
- Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
- If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
- Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
- Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time
Reality Level:
If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.Failed bimax by Italian surgeon
Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...
CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery packageUsually combined with other procedures, rarely done aloneMost surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planningHidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision fundsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
- Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
- Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
- Creates more masculine angles in facial structure
- Extremely complex, high risk of complications
- Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
- Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
- Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
- Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
- Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position
Reality Level:
If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.
PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.
Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/monthUGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/monthAncillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additionalHidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- The most researched PED with decades of medical usage
- Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery
- Reduces body fat when diet is in check
- Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users
- Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed
- Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed
- Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure
- Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)
- Legal issues in most countries without prescription
- Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage
Reality Level:
Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...
TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood workOnline TRT clinic: $100-200/monthInsurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Legal when prescribed by a physician
- Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T
- More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids
- Medical supervision reduces health risks
- May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone
- Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal
- Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms
- Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off
- Natural testosterone production shuts down completely
- Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)
- Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)
- Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects
Reality Level:
Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.
The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.
The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.
Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Improved skin quality and collagen production
- Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users- Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused
- Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Extremely expensive for real results
- Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed
- Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance
- Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)
- Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits
- Daily injections required indefinitely
- High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features
- These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic
Reality Level:
The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.
The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.
Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.
The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)
Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
Masteron: $50-120/monthProviron: $30-70/monthPrimobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplementsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Muscle hardening and dry appearance
- Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects
- Reduced water retention compared to other compounds
- Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle
- Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds
- Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye
- Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)
- Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds
- Most require injectable testosterone base anyway
- Often faked due to their popularity and price
Reality Level:
DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.Exposing DHT
Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)
Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...
Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Convenience of oral administration (no injections)
- Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol
- Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects
- Fast-acting results visible within weeks
- Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation
- Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket
- Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively
- Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles
- Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash
- Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost
- Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)
Reality Level:
Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar
Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...
Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/monthAdditional Test base: $20-60/monthHidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds
- Extreme hardening effect on physique
- Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)
- Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase
- Results visible much faster than most other compounds
- Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons
- Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"
- Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares
- Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression
- Respiratory issues ("tren cough")
- Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido
- and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.
Reality Level:
If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.
The Reality of PEDs:
The Overall Reality:
TL;DR:
shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.
Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.
btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.
DNR incel
TheRealitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.
take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105
@superpsycho my truecel brotha
Table Of Contents:
Introduction:
Requirements:
Surgeries:
LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
- Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
- Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
- If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
- You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
- Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
- Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
- It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
- If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
- Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.
Reality Level:
You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World
Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening SurgeonsKnowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery
You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeonOften requires international travel to find qualified surgeonsAdditional $10k-20k for planning and custom implantsHidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
- Improves orbital rim projection
- Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
- One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area
- Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
- Extreme swelling that lasts months
- Potential for horrible scarring
- Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
- Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
- Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery
Reality Level:
This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)
On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery
Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...
Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and countryLefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancementLefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proofHidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
- Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
- Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
- Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
- Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
- Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
- Potential for sinus issues for life
- If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
- Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"
Reality Level:
Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world
On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...Le Fort III Osteotomy
Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...
Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)View attachment 3658646 Price:
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and countryHealth insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apneaHidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
- Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
- Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
- Results are permanent (unless you get botched)
- Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
- Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
- Eating through a syringe for weeks
- Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
- If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
- Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
- Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time
Reality Level:
If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.Failed bimax by Italian surgeon
Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...
CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery packageUsually combined with other procedures, rarely done aloneMost surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planningHidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision fundsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
- Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
- Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
- Creates more masculine angles in facial structure
- Extremely complex, high risk of complications
- Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
- Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
- Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
- Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
- Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position
Reality Level:
If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.
PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.
Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/monthUGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/monthAncillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additionalHidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- The most researched PED with decades of medical usage
- Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery
- Reduces body fat when diet is in check
- Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users
- Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed
- Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed
- Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure
- Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)
- Legal issues in most countries without prescription
- Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage
Reality Level:
Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...
TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood workOnline TRT clinic: $100-200/monthInsurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Legal when prescribed by a physician
- Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T
- More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids
- Medical supervision reduces health risks
- May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone
- Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal
- Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms
- Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off
- Natural testosterone production shuts down completely
- Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)
- Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)
- Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects
Reality Level:
Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.
The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.
The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.
Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Improved skin quality and collagen production
- Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users- Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused
- Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Extremely expensive for real results
- Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed
- Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance
- Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)
- Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits
- Daily injections required indefinitely
- High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features
- These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic
Reality Level:
The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.
The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.
Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.
The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)
Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
Masteron: $50-120/monthProviron: $30-70/monthPrimobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplementsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Muscle hardening and dry appearance
- Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects
- Reduced water retention compared to other compounds
- Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle
- Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds
- Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye
- Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)
- Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds
- Most require injectable testosterone base anyway
- Often faked due to their popularity and price
Reality Level:
DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.Exposing DHT
Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)
Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...
Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Convenience of oral administration (no injections)
- Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol
- Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects
- Fast-acting results visible within weeks
- Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation
- Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket
- Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively
- Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles
- Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash
- Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost
- Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)
Reality Level:
Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar
Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...
Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/monthAdditional Test base: $20-60/monthHidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds
- Extreme hardening effect on physique
- Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)
- Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase
- Results visible much faster than most other compounds
- Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons
- Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"
- Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares
- Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression
- Respiratory issues ("tren cough")
- Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido
- and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.
Reality Level:
If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.
The Reality of PEDs:
The Overall Reality:
TL;DR:
shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.
Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.
btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.
TheRealitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.
take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105
@superpsycho my truecel brotha
Table Of Contents:
Introduction:
Requirements:
Surgeries:
LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
- Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
- Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
- If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
- You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
- Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
- Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
- It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
- If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
- Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.
Reality Level:
You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World
Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening SurgeonsKnowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery
You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeonOften requires international travel to find qualified surgeonsAdditional $10k-20k for planning and custom implantsHidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
- Improves orbital rim projection
- Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
- One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area
- Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
- Extreme swelling that lasts months
- Potential for horrible scarring
- Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
- Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
- Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery
Reality Level:
This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)
On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery
Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...
Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and countryLefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancementLefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proofHidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
- Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
- Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
- Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
- Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
- Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
- Potential for sinus issues for life
- If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
- Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"
Reality Level:
Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world
On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...Le Fort III Osteotomy
Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...
Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)View attachment 3658646 Price:
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and countryHealth insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apneaHidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
- Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
- Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
- Results are permanent (unless you get botched)
- Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
- Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
- Eating through a syringe for weeks
- Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
- If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
- Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
- Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time
Reality Level:
If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.Failed bimax by Italian surgeon
Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...
CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery packageUsually combined with other procedures, rarely done aloneMost surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planningHidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision fundsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
- Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
- Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
- Creates more masculine angles in facial structure
- Extremely complex, high risk of complications
- Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
- Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
- Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
- Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
- Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position
Reality Level:
If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.
PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.
Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/monthUGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/monthAncillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additionalHidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- The most researched PED with decades of medical usage
- Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery
- Reduces body fat when diet is in check
- Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users
- Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed
- Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed
- Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure
- Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)
- Legal issues in most countries without prescription
- Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage
Reality Level:
Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...
TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood workOnline TRT clinic: $100-200/monthInsurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Legal when prescribed by a physician
- Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T
- More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids
- Medical supervision reduces health risks
- May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone
- Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal
- Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms
- Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off
- Natural testosterone production shuts down completely
- Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)
- Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)
- Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects
Reality Level:
Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.
The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.
The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.
Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Improved skin quality and collagen production
- Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users- Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused
- Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Extremely expensive for real results
- Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed
- Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance
- Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)
- Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits
- Daily injections required indefinitely
- High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features
- These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic
Reality Level:
The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.
The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.
Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.
The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)
Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
Masteron: $50-120/monthProviron: $30-70/monthPrimobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplementsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Muscle hardening and dry appearance
- Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects
- Reduced water retention compared to other compounds
- Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle
- Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds
- Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye
- Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)
- Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds
- Most require injectable testosterone base anyway
- Often faked due to their popularity and price
Reality Level:
DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.Exposing DHT
Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)
Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...
Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Convenience of oral administration (no injections)
- Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol
- Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects
- Fast-acting results visible within weeks
- Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation
- Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket
- Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively
- Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles
- Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash
- Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost
- Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)
Reality Level:
Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar
Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...
Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/monthAdditional Test base: $20-60/monthHidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds
- Extreme hardening effect on physique
- Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)
- Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase
- Results visible much faster than most other compounds
- Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons
- Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"
- Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares
- Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression
- Respiratory issues ("tren cough")
- Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido
- and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.
Reality Level:
If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.
The Reality of PEDs:
The Overall Reality:
TL;DR:
shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.
Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.
btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.
U better change that reactBest thread OAT
TheRealitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.
take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105
@superpsycho my truecel brotha
Table Of Contents:
Introduction:
Requirements:
Surgeries:
LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
- Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
- Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
- If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
- You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
- Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
- Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
- It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
- If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
- Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.
Reality Level:
You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World
Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening SurgeonsKnowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery
You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeonOften requires international travel to find qualified surgeonsAdditional $10k-20k for planning and custom implantsHidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
- Improves orbital rim projection
- Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
- One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area
- Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
- Extreme swelling that lasts months
- Potential for horrible scarring
- Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
- Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
- Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery
Reality Level:
This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)
On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery
Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...
Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and countryLefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancementLefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proofHidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
- Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
- Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
- Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
- Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
- Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
- Potential for sinus issues for life
- If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
- Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"
Reality Level:
Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world
On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...Le Fort III Osteotomy
Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...
Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)View attachment 3658646 Price:
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and countryHealth insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apneaHidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
- Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
- Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
- Results are permanent (unless you get botched)
- Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
- Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
- Eating through a syringe for weeks
- Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
- If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
- Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
- Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time
Reality Level:
If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.Failed bimax by Italian surgeon
Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...
CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery packageUsually combined with other procedures, rarely done aloneMost surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planningHidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision fundsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
- Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
- Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
- Creates more masculine angles in facial structure
- Extremely complex, high risk of complications
- Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
- Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
- Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
- Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
- Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position
Reality Level:
If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.
PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.
Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/monthUGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/monthAncillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additionalHidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- The most researched PED with decades of medical usage
- Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery
- Reduces body fat when diet is in check
- Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users
- Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed
- Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed
- Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure
- Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)
- Legal issues in most countries without prescription
- Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage
Reality Level:
Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...
TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood workOnline TRT clinic: $100-200/monthInsurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Legal when prescribed by a physician
- Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T
- More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids
- Medical supervision reduces health risks
- May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone
- Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal
- Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms
- Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off
- Natural testosterone production shuts down completely
- Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)
- Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)
- Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects
Reality Level:
Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.
The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.
The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.
Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Improved skin quality and collagen production
- Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users- Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused
- Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Extremely expensive for real results
- Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed
- Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance
- Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)
- Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits
- Daily injections required indefinitely
- High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features
- These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic
Reality Level:
The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.
The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.
Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.
The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)
Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
Masteron: $50-120/monthProviron: $30-70/monthPrimobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplementsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Muscle hardening and dry appearance
- Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects
- Reduced water retention compared to other compounds
- Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle
- Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds
- Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye
- Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)
- Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds
- Most require injectable testosterone base anyway
- Often faked due to their popularity and price
Reality Level:
DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.Exposing DHT
Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)
Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...
Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Convenience of oral administration (no injections)
- Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol
- Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects
- Fast-acting results visible within weeks
- Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation
- Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket
- Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively
- Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles
- Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash
- Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost
- Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)
Reality Level:
Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar
Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...
Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/monthAdditional Test base: $20-60/monthHidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds
- Extreme hardening effect on physique
- Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)
- Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase
- Results visible much faster than most other compounds
- Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons
- Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"
- Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares
- Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression
- Respiratory issues ("tren cough")
- Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido
- and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.
Reality Level:
If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.
The Reality of PEDs:
The Overall Reality:
TL;DR:
shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.
Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.
btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.
because the forum is about rotting, not improving
rotmax.org
TheRealitypill
easier said than done.
View attachment 3661728
You ever notice how the go-to advice for greys now is “just surgerymaxx bro!” Yeah, as if it's some casual side quest you pick up between shifts at McDonald’s. Realitypill hits hard: most “solutions” are COPE when you're not genetically, financially, or socially equipped to even begin.
take the reality pill.
View attachment 3674105
@superpsycho my truecel brotha
Table Of Contents:
Introduction:
Requirements:
Surgeries:
LL (Limb Lengthening Surgery):
View attachment 3661636
A surgical procedure where your leg bones are intentionally broken and a metal device (either external or internal) is attached to gradually pull the bones apart, allowing new bone to form in the gap. This can add 2-6 inches to your height depending on whether
one or both segments (femur and/or tibia) are lengthened, and how much your body can safely tolerate.View attachment 3658646Price:
Ranges from $50,000 to $120,000+, depending on country and surgeon,
number of segments operated (femurs vs. tibias), and whether it's internal or external fixators.
Hidden costs: travel, physiotherapy, rehab, loss of income during downtime. Full true cost closer to $150k+ if you want a life afterward.
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- One of the few surgeries that can literally change your SMV if you're under 5’6. Brings you into the "visible male" threshold.
- Results are permanent, height is important for social, career, and dating.
- Can psychologically ascend you if you were heightmogged your whole life.
- If done flawlessly, you will pass as a natural tall guy.
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Pain is excruciating, rated worse than childbirth or cancer pain by some patients.
- You are breaking your legs and stretching them millimeter by millimeter for months.
- Recovery involves months in a wheelchair, walker, crutches. Gait issues and limping common.
- Complications are not rare: bone infection, leg length discrepancy, nerve injury, joint stiffness.
- It can ruin your biomechanics permanently. You'll never run or squat properly again if unlucky.
- If you aren’t already good-looking in the face, height won’t save you.
- Most normies won't understand. You’ll have to lie or ghost everyone for 1 year minimum.
Reality Level:
You should only even think about considering it if you’re under 5'6 . This isn’t as easy as you think, grey. You will fuck up your mental health, physical health, and social life. And be honest with yourself: you’re never going to get LL, so stop making bullshit posts about it.thanks to @whitebitchslayer for providing this.Best Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening Surgeons in the World
Top Cosmetic and Discrepancy Limb Lengthening SurgeonsKnowing good proportions for leg lengthening surgery
You'd ideally want a wingspan fairly taller than your height, unlike this: Men on average have a wingspan 2 inches greater than their height, so you may close the gap more if your wingspan has a greater difference You should also find out your lower leg length such as shown: Then convert it...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
OBO (Orbital Box Osteotomy):
View attachment 3671315View attachment 3671358
A highly complex surgical procedure where the bone surrounding the eye socket (orbital box) is cut, repositioned,
and fixed in a new position. This can change the projection, width, and height of the eye area. Surgeons may remove, reposition,
or add bone to create the desired effect, altering the appearance of the eyes and surrounding structures.
$40k-80k baseline depending on surgeonOften requires international travel to find qualified surgeonsAdditional $10k-20k for planning and custom implantsHidden costs: Months of recovery time, potential vision therapy
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can fix sunken or asymmetrical eyes
- Improves orbital rim projection
- Can create hunter eyes effect if done correctly
- One of the few surgeries that can actually change eye area
- Risk of permanent vision changes or blindness (yes, seriously)
- Extreme swelling that lasts months
- Potential for horrible scarring
- Most surgeons refuse to do it purely for cosmetic reasons
- Recovery involves weeks of not being able to read, use screens, or function
- Mental health impact of looking like a monster for months during recovery
Reality Level:
This is one of the most extreme procedures with the highest risk. If you're obsessing over your orbital rims while the rest of your face is a mess, you need therapy, not surgery. The eye area is incredibly complex and sensitive. Most "after" photos you see are cherry-picked and heavily filtered. The horror stories don't make it to the forums.I had modified Orbital Box Osteotomy and Implants by Surgerymax. AMA
Hello everyone! I am a long time lurker on .org and a dedicated hardmaxxer - some of you might know me as monke from looksmax related group chats. I’m here to discuss the planning, share my personal experience, and answer questions regarding the whole process of the modified Orbital Box...1st OBO + Tripod (No Strabismus!)
On September 3, 2024 we performed the first subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy with Tripod Osteotomies, and the 2nd Custom Subcranial Orbital Box Osteotomy. (The first ever was collaborated with Dr Ercin, designed & assisted by me in Dec 2023. I collaborate with 3 independant surgeons for this...Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery
Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had. I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a...
Lefort 1,2 & 3:
View attachment 3670922
A series of facial osteotomies (bone cuts) categorized by levels of complexity. Lefort 1 involves cutting and repositioning just the upper jaw.
Lefort 2 includes the upper jaw plus nasal and lower orbital bones. Lefort 3 is the most extensive,
involving the entire midface from the eye sockets down, essentially detaching the face from the skull base to reposition it.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Lefort 1: $20k-40k depending on surgeon reputation and countryLefort 2: $35k-60k for midface advancementLefort 3: $60k-100k+ (extremely complex, few surgeons can do it)Insurance might cover only if you have severe functional issues with proofHidden costs: Liquid diet for weeks, titanium plates that stay forever, potential revisions
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Can completely change your midface projection (Lefort 2/3)
- Can fix recessed cheekbones and flat faces
- Works for cases of severe midface retrusion where fillers would look fake
- Functional benefits for breathing if you have midface issues
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Risk of asymmetry is extremely high
- Nerve damage risk (can lose sensation in parts of your face permanently)
- Recovery is brutal - 2-3 months before swelling goes down to "presentable"
- Potential for sinus issues for life
- If combined with other procedures, risk of getting that "uncanny autist" look
- Most normies won't even know what changed, just that you look "different"
Reality Level:
Lefort 3 is basically facial reconstruction territory and mainly for deformities. If you're considering it for looks alone, you're deep in the delusion zone. Lefort 1 can be worth it for severe functional issues. Remember, most "ascended" guys you see online had perfect baseline genetics and just needed minor tweaks. The rest got botched but don't post about it.Real Cosmetic LeFort II (LeFort 2) & First Custom Non-Syndrome LeFort II in the world
On August 30, we did possibly the first custom LeFort II in the world, but most definitely the first custom non syndrome LeFort II in the world. Surgery was long but everything was done as planned. An anticipated unit of blood was transfused. Immediate anesthesia emergence/extubation was...Le Fort III Osteotomy
Le Fort III is an invasive surgery that advances the maxillary bone and zygomatic bones forward and upwards inorder to correct craniofacialdystrophy. A Le Fort III fracture includes fracture of the nasofrontal junction, bilateral fractures through the area of the frontozygomatic suture, and...
Bimax (Bimaxillary Osteotomy)View attachment 3658646 Price:
View attachment 3670243
A procedure where both your upper jaw (maxilla) and lower jaw (mandible) are cut, repositioned, and fixed with titanium plates and screws.
The surgeon makes incisions inside your mouth, cuts the bones, moves them to desired positions, and then secures them.
This can correct recessed jaws, overbites, underbites, and improve facial balance.
$30k-80k USD depending on surgeon and countryHealth insurance will reject you if they smell "cosmetic" - you better be a good actor about sleep apneaHidden costs: liquid diet supplies, time off work (2-4 weeks min), pain meds, follow-ups
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can actually change your face shape and fix recessed jaws
- Forward growth = immediate ascension if you had a weak chin/jaw
- Can fix breathing issues, sleep apnea, and bite problems
- Results are permanent (unless you get botched)
- Insane facial swelling for weeks - you'll look like a punching bag
- Nerves get cut = permanent numbness in parts of your face for 20-50% of patients
- Eating through a syringe for weeks
- Can't laugh, sneeze, or yawn normally without pain for months
- If surgeon miscalculates even slightly = asymmetry forever
- Risk of TMJ issues that make your previous problems seem minor
- Some results don't show for 6+ months - you'll be coping "it's just swelling bro" for a LONG time
Reality Level:
If you're actually deformed or have severe function issues, worth considering. If you're just a normie who thinks a slightly stronger jaw will get you laid, you're delusional. Most results look uncanny if you don't need it functionally.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.Failed bimax by Italian surgeon
Hello everyone, I did a bimaxillary about 6 months ago by a surgeon in Rome about which you can not find a lot of info on the internet, indeed there is no ... well it was a complete failure I was slightly retruded and I still am , maybe it also created some more problems .. I will answer...
CCW (Counter Clock Wise) Rotation Surgery:
View attachment 3671222
A specialized jaw surgery technique where both jaws are rotated counterclockwise as a unit to improve facial aesthetics and function.
This rotation typically brings the chin forward and up while bringing the upper teeth down,
creating a more harmonious profile and better jaw angle. It's almost always performed as part of a larger orthognathic surgery plan.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
$30k-70k as part of jaw surgery packageUsually combined with other procedures, rarely done aloneMost surgeons won't even attempt without extensive planningHidden costs: Multiple consultations, 3D planning fees, revision fundsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Can dramatically improve facial harmony and profile
- Changes the entire lower third angle of your face
- Can make a weak chin appear stronger without implants
- Creates more masculine angles in facial structure
- Extremely complex, high risk of complications
- Can create breathing issues if rotation is too aggressive
- Common complaint: "My bite feels off forever"
- Recovery involves months of not being able to fully open your mouth
- Requires perfect planning or you'll look worse than before
- Potential for relapse if your muscles fight the new position
Reality Level:
If you're hyperfixated on specific angles of your face that normies don't even notice, you're already too far gone. CCW rotation is an advanced technique that makes sense for maybe 1% of cases. For most greycels, fixing basics like skin, weight, and hair would do more than this complex surgery ever could. The risk-reward ratio is trash unless you're severely deformed.Had Bimax CCW Genio with Dr Ramieri, AMA
Wont post pics but will answer all questions honestly and detailed as possible. Currently 2.5weeks post op.
PEDs (Performance Enhancing Drugs):
View attachment 3671547View attachment 3671538
Chemical compounds used to enhance physical performance, muscle growth, bone growth and body composition beyond natural capability. These include anabolic steroids (like testosterone), human growth hormone (HGH), SARMs (Selective Androgen Receptor Modulators), and various peptides. Some are taken orally, others injected, often cycled in specific patterns to maximize results while attempting to minimize side effects.
Testosterone (Test):
View attachment 3673228
The primary male sex hormone and the foundation of virtually all steroid cycles. Injected typically into muscle tissue 1-3 times weekly depending on the ester (cypionate, enanthate, propionate). Serves as the base compound that all other anabolics are stacked with.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $30-100/monthUGL (Underground Lab): $20-60/monthAncillaries (AI, PCT): $30-80 additionalHidden costs: Syringes, alcohol wipes, blood work ($150-300 every 2-3 months)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- The most researched PED with decades of medical usage
- Increases muscle mass, strength, and recovery
- Reduces body fat when diet is in check
- Improves mood, confidence, and libido for most users
- Can improve facial aesthetics through slight reduction in facial fat and increased angular appearance
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Shuts down natural testosterone production - recovery not guaranteed
- Can cause accelerated hair loss if genetically predisposed
- Potential for acne, gynecomastia, elevated blood pressure
- Requires frequent injections (fear of needles = no gains)
- Legal issues in most countries without prescription
- Many clinics will reject you for TRT after steroid usage
Reality Level:
Test alone won't transform your face or physique magically. Results are 70% genetics, 20% diet/training, 10% drugs. Most greys drastically overestimate what just testosterone will do. If you're fat, you'll be a stronger fat guy. If you're skinny, you'll be a slightly less skinny guy. The chads you see on gear had chad genetics to begin with. Don't expect it to fix your bone structure or life problems.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...
TRT (Testosterone Replacement Therapy):View attachment 3671547
A medical treatment where testosterone is administered to men with clinically low testosterone levels to bring them into the normal range.
Unlike steroid cycles, TRT aims for physiological replacement doses (typically 100-200mg/week) rather than supraphysiological levels,
and is meant to be a lifelong treatment rather than a temporary cycle.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Legitimate clinic: $150-300/month including consultations and blood workOnline TRT clinic: $100-200/monthInsurance-covered TRT: $10-50/month (but increasingly difficult to get approved)Self-administered "TRT": $20-50/month (same UGL sources as cycles)Hidden costs: Regular blood work, potential fertility treatments later in life, lifetime commitment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Legal when prescribed by a physician
- Can restore energy, libido, mood, and body composition for men with actually low T
- More stable hormone levels than cycling on/off steroids
- Medical supervision reduces health risks
- May improve facial appearance through reduced facial fat and better skin/muscle tone
- Less side effects than steroid cycles when properly managed
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Increasingly difficult to get prescribed unless truly hypogonadal
- Clinics often require "in range" levels (450-600 ng/dL) even if you feel symptoms
- Lifetime commitment - once on, most men never come off
- Natural testosterone production shuts down completely
- Causes infertility in most men without additional drugs (hCG, HMG)
- Still requires injections (typically 1-2 times weekly)
- Most men need additional medications to control estrogen side effects
Reality Level:
Most guys eye TRT as a "safe" entry into hormone manipulation, but here's the realitypill: legitimate TRT is getting harder to get approved unless you're actually hypogonadal (under 300 ng/dL consistently). Most clinics will reject young guys unless they've exhausted all other options first.
The looksmaxing benefits are massively overhyped. If you're truly low T, getting to normal levels might make you feel better and lose some face bloat, but it's not transformative. If your T levels are already normal (400-700 ng/dL), TRT will shut down your natural production just to replace it with the same levels artificially - a net neutral change with added risks.
The reality: many young guys claiming "TRT" are actually running mini steroid cycles (250-300mg/week), not true replacement therapy (100-150mg/week), then wondering why they get side effects. If you're considering TRT primarily for face gains, you're chasing a fantasy. Medical professionals laugh at the guys asking for T scripts while listing off aesthetic complaints.
Human Growth Hormone (HGH):
View attachment 3673640
A peptide hormone that stimulates growth, cell reproduction, and regeneration. Unlike testosterone, HGH must be injected daily or multiple times daily, typically subcutaneously. It's not technically an anabolic steroid but works synergistically with them.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Pharmaceutical grade: $300-600/month for effective doses (4-6 IU daily minimum)Generic Chinese: $100-300/month (quality extremely variable)Hidden costs: Insulin syringes, blood glucose monitoring, insulin (for advanced users)
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
- Improved skin quality and collagen production
- Enhanced fat loss, particularly in stubborn areas
Better sleep quality for many users- Potential for some bone growth in jaw/face if growth plates aren't completely fused
- Synergistic effect when combined with testosterone
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Extremely expensive for real results
- Most "HGH" sold online is fake or severely underdosed
- Side effects include water retention, carpal tunnel syndrome, insulin resistance
- Potential for organ growth including heart (enlarged heart = health problems)
- Takes months of consistent use to see noticeable benefits
- Daily injections required indefinitely
- High doses (10+ IU daily) for prolonged periods can cause acromegaly-like features: enlarged jaw, nose growth, prominent brow/forehead, enlarged hands/feet, and coarse facial features
- These acromegaly changes are often permanent and can become disfiguring rather than aesthetic
Reality Level:
The ultimate rich guy PED. Unless you've got thousands to blow monthly, real pharma GH is out of your reach. That Chinese generic you're buying? Probably just peptides or severely underdosed. The "face transformation" effects require years of high-dose use that would cost more than most surgical procedures.
The acromegaly truth: Those "bone mass gain" you're chasing can quickly turn into disfiguring changes if you push doses too high. What starts as "masculine features" can end as "monster face" - look at pro bodybuilders who've abused GH for decades. Their enlarged features aren't aesthetic; they're medical symptoms.
Most looksmaxers talking about "GH bone mass gains" have never actually run it themselves or are using such low doses that the facial effects are minimal. The sweet spot between "enough to change your face" and "so much you look deformed" is extremely narrow and impossible to control precisely.
The realitypill: HGH is a hail mary that costs more than surgery with less predictable results.The Ultimate pubertymaxxing guide, an introduction into androgens and growth factors, and how to apply them.
Preface: I've had a lot of questions in my pm's recently regarding growth hormone, IGF-1, and androgens. specifically, people asking me for sources and stacks, how they work, etc, I'm hoping this guide will be able to answer as many of your questions as possible. Disclaimer: this thread is...Ascend's Guide on how to get HGH/Heightmaxxing!!!!!! (Teen manlets gtfih)
Hello all, I am writing this thread mainly because it is a cool idea and lots of the teens here think hgh is too expensive or just impossible to get. While that is not true because I was able to acquire hgh at 15 (16 now) so it is possible, without any help from my parents, so without further...
View attachment 3658646 Price:
DHT Derivatives (Masteron, Proviron, etc.):
View attachment 3673915
A class of steroids derived from dihydrotestosterone (DHT), the hormone responsible for many male characteristics. Popular varieties include Masteron (drostanolone), Proviron (mesterolone), and Primobolan (methenolone). Known for producing dry, hard physiques with minimal water retention.
Masteron: $50-120/monthProviron: $30-70/monthPrimobolan: $150-300/month (one of the most expensive)Hidden costs: Hair loss treatments, lipid support supplementsView attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Muscle hardening and dry appearance
- Potential facial masculinization through androgenic effects
- Reduced water retention compared to other compounds
- Some (like Proviron) can help with libido/erectile issues on cycle
- Often lower side effect profile than harsher compounds
- Absolutely devastating to hairlines - if you're prone to MPB, say goodbye
- Can crash HDL (good cholesterol) and elevate LDL (bad cholesterol)
- Modest muscle building effects compared to stronger compounds
- Most require injectable testosterone base anyway
- Often faked due to their popularity and price
Reality Level:
DHT derivatives are the "pretty boy" PEDs that many looksmaxers gravitate toward for their "face gains" potential. Here's the brutal truth: if you're past 20, your facial bone structure ain't changing from drugs. What you'll get is slightly less facial water retention and maybe more visible jawline IF you're already lean. What you'll definitely get is an accelerated baldness timeline if you have those genes. The risk-to-reward ratio for purely cosmetic purposes is terrible.Exposing DHT
Does DHT Affect Bone Development, Penis Growth After 16-17, or Height Increase? Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) is a powerful androgen responsible for several key processes during puberty.However,its impact on bone development penis growth after the age of 16-17, and height increase is minimal or...[HIGH EFFORT] Proviron: A Deep Dive into the Most Underrated and Safest Pubertymaxxing Compound (youngcels gtfih)
Hey guys, I've been lurking on the forum for a while and felt it was time to make a contribution. This is my first high effort post that took 10+ hours of research, lmk if you guys want more posts like this one. Introduction: The Search for the Perfect Puberty Optimization Compound For those...
Oral Steroids (Anavar, Winstrol, Dianabol, etc.):View attachment 3673961
Synthetic anabolic steroids designed to be taken orally rather than injected. Modified with an alkylation at the 17th carbon position to survive liver metabolism. Common varieties include Anavar (oxandrolone), Winstrol (stanozolol), Dianabol (methandrostenolone), and Anadrol (oxymetholone).
View attachment 3658646 Price:
Anavar (pharma grade): $100-200/month
Anavar (UGL): $60-120/month
Dianabol: $30-60/month
Winstrol: $40-80/month
Hidden costs: Liver support supplements, lipid support, potentially medical treatment
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Convenience of oral administration (no injections)
- Rapid strength gains, particularly with Dianabol and Anadrol
- Some (like Anavar) considered "milder" with fewer side effects
- Fast-acting results visible within weeks
- Can temporarily enhance facial definition through glycogen loading and water manipulation
- Extremely liver toxic - enzyme values can skyrocket
- Should never be run more than 6-8 weeks consecutively
- Terrible impact on cholesterol/lipid profiles
- Most require injectable test base anyway to prevent hormonal crash
- Often faked or underdosed due to popularity and cost
- Can cause significant water retention (Dianabol, Anadrol)
Reality Level:
Oral steroids are the "gateway drug" of the PED world due to needle phobia. They're also the most likely to fuck up your health in the shortest time. That "mild" Anavar you think you're taking? Probably Winstrol or underdosed. That temporary facial definition from Winstrol? Just temporary drying effect that disappears when you stop. The reality is that orals alone will give you minimal lasting benefits while potentially causing permanent liver strain. Most looksmaxers would be better served by fixing their diet than playing Russian roulette with their liver for temporary cosmetic effects.The Most Underrated Pubertymaxxing Compound - Anavar
Introduction People on this forum will tell you to spend $400 a month on growth hormone to heightmax, $50 on a month on AAS for dimorphism which will shut down your HPTA, bloat you and give you shit skin, then go on Accutane to fix all this. What if I told you there was a compound that could do...
Trenbolone (Tren):
View attachment 3674044
One of the most powerful anabolic steroids available, originally developed for cattle to maximize meat yield before slaughter. Available in different esters (acetate, enanthate) that determine injection frequency. Known for its dramatic effects and equally dramatic side effects.
View attachment 3658646 Price:
UGL (only source since not made for humans): $60-150/monthAdditional Test base: $20-60/monthHidden costs: Increased ancillary needs, potential mental health treatment, insomnia aids
View attachment 3658646 Pros:
View attachment 3658646 Cons:
- Dramatic strength and muscle gains beyond most other compounds
- Extreme hardening effect on physique
- Nutrient partitioning effects (more calories go to muscle vs fat)
- Potential facial structure enhancement through androgen receptor density increase
- Results visible much faster than most other compounds
- Nicknamed as "Satan's compound" for good reasons
- Severe mental side effects: paranoia, anxiety, jealousy, aggression "tren rage"
- Insomnia, night sweats, vivid nightmares
- Cardiotoxicity and extreme HPTA suppression
- Respiratory issues ("tren cough")
- Potential for erectile dysfunction despite increased libido
- and i don't think i even need to mention this but fucks up your skin too.
Reality Level:
If you're considering tren as a looksmaxing strategy, you've gone too deep into the rabbit hole. This is one of the harshest compounds available that even experienced bodybuilders approach with caution. The mental side effects alone have ended relationships, careers, and lives. The facial "benefits" are temporary and not worth the permanent damage to your health. The guys recommending tren for looksmaxing have either never used it or are too deep in the delusion to see what it's doing to them.
The Reality of PEDs:
The Overall Reality:
TL;DR:
shoutout to: @Zagro for helping, @Quncho, @Gengar and @sigmamogger for motivating me to finish this thread.
Thanks for reading, this is all. also making this thread took me almost a week so i would really appreciate if you could atleast react to this post.
btw inb4 "you didn't include this" i was giving examples about risky and popular things to show how genetic matters everywhere.
