THE ULTIMATE FRAMEMAXXING MEGAGUIDE (FRAMECELS GTFIH OR FOREVER ROT)

[AverageTevvezFan]

One more que
Can you give the source for 2 inch bone growth thing

Check section 7. Has everything you need to know.

Jokes aside, the case study for that is steve reeves. I won't spoon-feed you like I have for the whole thread, but he started his bb career decently wide, and ended it with a 23.5in bideltoid. He claims that he is 2 inches wider (in the skeletal structure) from some of the exercises I have listed. Check out GoldenEraBookworm for more info on the guy, he has a couple eBooks that I've read which you could buy.

 

[Deleted member 20631]

Yes, but if you're nuking DHT your results may be slightly dampened. That's why I recommend topical dutasteride as it tends to not go very systemic.

I'm talking low dose fin so DHT being reduced about 60-70 percent, and my test levels are going to be triple what they should normally be while on test so in theory I should be getting my natural DHT levels but greatly elevated test levels, so I shouldn't get the intense thinning and receding from blasting test. Also topical dutasteride does eventually go systematic. So I'm probably going to just run Fin + Ru, I still need to research topical dutasteride more though and if it's just as effective as oral fin while also taking longer to go systematic then there's no reason not to use it.

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

Check section 7. Has everything you need to know.

Jokes aside, the case study for that is steve reeves. I won't spoon-feed you like I have for the whole thread, but he started his bb career decently wide, and ended it with a 23.5in bideltoid. He claims that he is 2 inches wider (in the skeletal structure) from some of the exercises I have listed. Check out GoldenEraBookworm for more info on the guy, he has a couple eBooks that I've read which you could buy.

Furthermore, steve reeves managed to do it in his late teens without the drugs or understanding of osteogenesis which we have today, so we should be able to follow in his steps with ease, and maybe even surpass him in terms of bone development depending on genes and age.

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

I'm talking low dose fin so DHT being reduced about 60-70 percent, and my test levels are going to be triple what they should normally be while on test so in theory I should be getting my natural DHT levels but greatly elevated test levels, so I shouldn't get the intense thinning and receding from blasting test. Also topical dutasteride does eventually go systematic. So I'm probably going to just run Fin + Ru, I still need to research topical dutasteride more though and if it's just as effective as oral fin while also taking longer to go systematic then there's no reason not to use it.

Check out MPMD's videos on topical dut.

Very interesting.

 

[Aypo129]

Check section 7. Has everything you need to know.

Jokes aside, the case study for that is steve reeves. I won't spoon-feed you like I have for the whole thread, but he started his bb career decently wide, and ended it with a 23.5in bideltoid. He claims that he is 2 inches wider (in the skeletal structure) from some of the exercises I have listed. Check out GoldenEraBookworm for more info on the guy, he has a couple eBooks that I've read which you could buy.

This one is hard guess then
He has made a claim on it or was measurements done?
I will study the books thanky for reccomend

 

[Aypo129]

Great thread overall

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

This one is hard guess then
He has made a claim on it or was measurements done?
I will study the books thanky for reccomend

He has had measurements taken, but they are from accounts of guys who used to hang out with him. He was a silver-age bodybuilder, 1940s, it's not like we have youtube videos of him next to doorways to compare with.

However there are plenty photos of him posing and you can see a very big difference between the start and end of his career, and a lot of it is in his frame. His clavicles are simply a lot wider.

I believe T-nation has an article where they mention his width called 'W-I-D-E-R' where he was measured.

 

[Deleted member 20631]

Check out MPMD's videos on topical dut.

Very interesting.

Thanks for telling me about Topical Dut, this is easily a BOTB post you're a real nigga for posting that info

 

[Deleted member 21531]

Can one train the same muscle for hypertrophy and hyperplasia at the same time?

 

[SteveRogers]

Great thread, however HGH, CJC, MK677 etc. are sub IGF-1 DES/LR3; HGH is a stress hormone, and the hormone that actually does the growing is IGF-1.
So using GH secretagogues is sub optimal, in my opinion.
Why not just go straight to the point, avoid the stress, avoid the diabetes, get a more effective drug; IGF-1 DES/LR3.
My guide is simple;
Pin DES into side delt/upper chest EOD (50mg each side) for 4 weeks
Pin LR3 wherever (I go lat) on non DES days.
Also, if LR3 caused cancer, then so would any other growth hormone, except maybe DES.

I will incorporate those exercises to my routine though.

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

you are metally ill fucking lol at you for wasting hours writing this useless text

with the exercise part you lost all credibility and the horomone part is wrong

nobody here will ever do anything of what you mentioned beacause it's all cope

keep wasting your time and money on scams unsuccessfully trying to get the frame or the height of a healthy grown man meanwhile 16 yo chad has a 25 inch bideltoid and is 6'4 without doing anything other than fucking

annoyimg faggot how the fuck is this a botb thread

go back to school you're 17 you have little idea on how hormones and everything in general works and this is evidencied by the shit replies and threads you write

suck my schlong dickhead

 

[Deleted member 20471]

suck my schlong dickhead

doesnt surprise me that you're homosexual its linked to mental problems

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

doesnt surprise me that you're homosexual its linked to mental problems

beyond calling each other faggots and what-not

what about the hormone part is wrong? i'm not against criticism, if you could elaborate it would be a lot more helpful.
same goes for the exercises section. ty

 

[Deleted member 21531]

Can one train the same muscle for hypertrophy and hyperplasia at the same time?

@AverageTevvezFan reply asap

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

Can one train the same muscle for hypertrophy and hyperplasia at the same time?

I doubt it. Whilst you could likely apply progressive overload during a hyperplasia cycle and see some small improvements in strength and size, it wouldn't be significant and you'd probably lose it in the recovery month.

Hyperplasia is not 100% necessary. None of this is. You need to look at the different sections and see if you're lacking in any departments.

If you are already wide-framed with thick bone, it isn't necessary to framemaxx, just go straight to hyperplasia/hypertrophy.

Have a look at yourself and consider what you actually need.

 

[Deleted member 21531]

I doubt it. Whilst you could likely apply progressive overload during a hyperplasia cycle and see some small improvements in strength and size, it wouldn't be significant and you'd probably lose it in the recovery month.

Hyperplasia is not 100% necessary. None of this is. You need to look at the different sections and see if you're lacking in any departments.

If you are already wide-framed with thick bone, it isn't necessary to framemaxx, just go straight to hyperplasia/hypertrophy.

Have a look at yourself and consider what you actually need.

Looking a lil in youtube it seems the best way to combine both is through weighted stretch excercises. Time to change my workout routine again lmao

 

[Gargamel]

Stopped reading at "I'm 17".

Good effort though.

 

[Deleted member 17429]

I’m taking pharma HGH (Genotropin)
6.25MG AI. Why 25mg with test propionate? I can’t do bloodwork and I don’t wanna risk growth plate fusion so I might use Anavar instead.
I’m 16.5, I will be doing all of the exercises op mentioned besides the reeves deadlift because my dumbass gym owner doesn’t allow deadlifts
U tell us to do these exercises but you don’t give us a nice split. Also, where the FUCK are the lat raises?

You also didn’t mention shoving eggs down your throat, sunning your balls, and HIIT sprinting. @AscendingHero enlighten this dude

 

[Mongrelcel]

I estimate that if you do it all as I’ve detailed when it comes to hormones, diet and training, you could probably increase your biacromial width (distance between the outermost end of your clavicles) by 2 inches with 3-6 cycles.

Idk about 2 inches bro
I'd like to remain hopeful, but:

that's more than the growth during the entire puberty (when GH levels were high naturally)

 

[Mongrelcel]

can you give your thoughts on cartilage & ears etc growth while on the GH releasing peptides?

you claim that the CJC dose with MK or Ipamorelin could be equivalent up to around 8 IUs (also would like to know how you came to those numbers) which is a fucking lot
so some unwanted growth can be expected no?

 

[Deleted member 17429]

Idk about 2 inches bro
I'd like to remain hopeful, but:
View attachment 1833679
that's more than the growth during the entire puberty (when GH levels were high naturally)

You’d be surprised what muscle, posture, and a bunch of other shit can do
Just keep going until you can’t fit in a door frame, ded srs

 

[fruitgunpop]

You mentioned once that you'll delete this thread sometime in the future.
When will it be in your estimation?
I still haven't copied all my bookmarked threads onto google docs

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

You mentioned once that you'll delete this thread sometime in the future.
When will it be in your estimation?
I still haven't copied all my bookmarked threads onto google docs

It's unlikely. Don't worry about it. I'm not even VIP, I would have to buy that first.

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

can you give your thoughts on cartilage & ears etc growth while on the GH releasing peptides?

you claim that the CJC dose with MK or Ipamorelin could be equivalent up to around 8 IUs (also would like to know how you came to those numbers) which is a fucking lot
so some unwanted growth can be expected no?

The 8-10 IU's statement comes from a study done showing the blood serum concentration of IGF-1 in subjects which had been administered different amounts of HGH.

From that study, we extrapolated a benchmark level of IGF-1 in the blood produced by 8-10 IUs of HGH, which if we hit using GHRP's and MK-677 we could claim to be an 'equivalent' to in terms of results.

How To Replicate A HIGH Dose Of Pharma Grade GH With Peptides

This article will explain exactly how to replicate a VERY HIGH dose of Pharma Grade GH for a fraction of the price of Pharma Grade GH.

moreplatesmoredates.com

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

I’m taking pharma HGH (Genotropin)
6.25MG AI. Why 25mg with test propionate? I can’t do bloodwork and I don’t wanna risk growth plate fusion so I might use Anavar instead.
I’m 16.5, I will be doing all of the exercises op mentioned besides the reeves deadlift because my dumbass gym owner doesn’t allow deadlifts
U tell us to do these exercises but you don’t give us a nice split. Also, where the FUCK are the lat raises?

You also didn’t mention shoving eggs down your throat, sunning your balls, and HIIT sprinting. @AscendingHero enlighten this dude

When do I say anything about lat raises? If I did, it was a typo. I meant lat pulldowns.

 

[Mongrelcel]

You’d be surprised what muscle, posture, and a bunch of other shit can do
Just keep going until you can’t fit in a door frame, ded srs

I will

but the 2 inch number really isn't based on anything, and I myself wonder what kind of gains can be attained through this

I lean on the wayy lower side, if you look at this graph, the natural growth I have left should be around 5mm in each clavicle, so meaning 1 cm in total - can we boost this by 50% or by 100%?

because 2 inches is a 500% increase...

@AverageTevvezFan what's your bidelt now at untrained at 17 bro?

The 8-10 IU's statement comes from a study done showing the blood serum concentration of IGF-1 in subjects which had been administered different amounts of HGH.

From that study, we extrapolated a benchmark level of IGF-1 in the blood produced by 8-10 IUs of HGH, which if we hit using GHRP's and MK-677 we could claim to be an 'equivalent' to in terms of results.

How To Replicate A HIGH Dose Of Pharma Grade GH With Peptides

This article will explain exactly how to replicate a VERY HIGH dose of Pharma Grade GH for a fraction of the price of Pharma Grade GH.

moreplatesmoredates.com

thanks for the source bro, i'll check out the video and the article

 

[callisto]

bookmarked

great thread but dont use berberine:

BERBERINE IS A RETARDED SUPPLEMENT MUST READ IF CONSIDERING IT

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2911075/ people take this shit often with mk677 and other shit to lower blood sugar levels but it weakens growth inducing compounds at the same time. "Besides accelerated protein degradation causing muscle atrophy, a decrease in protein synthesis...

looksmax.org

 

[Mongrelcel]

@AverageTevvezFan

thoughts on this study?

The lateral clavicular epiphysis: fusion timing and age estimation - PubMed

This study utilizes a forensic autopsy sample of twentieth century American Whites (the McCormick Clavicle Collection) to describe the morphology, variation, and fusion timing of the lateral clavicle epiphysis. Clavicles from individuals between 11 and 25 years at the time of death were used to...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

claims that clavicles are fused by 20, but that does go against other studies so idk what to think

 

[Mongrelcel]

@AverageTevvezFan check this shit that I just found - ossification grade of the Medial Clavicular Epiphysis on Chest Radiographs

Spoiler: Guide

Representative images of each ossification grade. White arrows indicate the cortical line at the medial end of clavicle. Grade 1 (invisible ossification center). The medial end of cortex is concave in shape and has an irregular margin with a thin cortical rim.;

Grade 2 (visible ossification center without any ossification of epiphyseal cartilage). (A) The medial end of clavicle is convex in shape and has two layers of radiopaque cortical lines thicker than 1 mm at the full vertical length along with a full sharp radiolucent line with an even thickness which opens at both the top and bottom of the clavicle. (B) Epiphyseal ossification may be present as a less radiopaque density (empty arrow head) at the half of the vertical length;

Grade 3 (visible ossification center with partial ossification of epiphyseal cartilage). The medial end of clavicle is convex or flat in shape and has two layers of radiopaque cortical lines thicker than 1 mm at a portion of the vertical length. The vertical radiolucent line has an irregular margin and thickness, which is interrupted (A) or closed by radiopaque area (B) either at the top or bottom;

Grade 4 (complete ossification of epiphyseal cartilage with epiphyseal scar). (A) The medial end of clavicle is flat or convex in shape and has a broad cortical line 1-2 mm or thicker. There is no mach band phenomenon. Thin vertical line, epiphyseal scar (white arrow head) is visible adjacent to the cortical line. (B) The lateral margin may be amorphous and density of adjacent bone is mildly increased;

Grade 5 (complete ossification of epiphyseal cartilage without epiphyseal scar). The medial end of clavicle is flat or convex in shape and has a thin even cortical line with an adjacent slit-like radiolucent line due to mach band phenomenon (A). The lateral margin of cortical line is even and sharp. The cortical line of medial clavicular end may be thicker up to 2 mm but evenness and sharpness are preserved at its full vertical length (B). Oblique positioning of the sternal facet at X-ray exposure may produce two layers of sharp radiopaque cortical lines thinner than 1 mm which are far apart at center and joined at the top and bottom resulting in a teardrop appearance (C).

Spoiler: Source

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307902805_Ossification_of_the_Medial_Clavicular_Epiphysis_on_Chest_Radiographs_Utility_and_Diagnostic_Accuracy_in_Identifying_Korean_Adolescents_and_Young_Adults_under_the_Age_of_Majority

and this is my clavicle:

THIS SHIT DOES NOT LOOK FUSED AT ALL

 

[serbiangandy]

Can hyperplasia occur without doing this massive stack and just doing the weird ass routine?

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

Can hyperplasia occur without doing this massive stack and just doing the weird ass routine?

The exercises I gave you are for widening the frame, not for hyperplasia.

Hyperplasia can 100% occur without this stack. The stack enhances hyperplasia to save time and get better results.

You can use any exercises for hyperplasia as long as they follow the rules I outlined, making sure that you are doing very high volume and getting a pump, along with doing it every day for a month and then taking a month off from training entirely.

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

I will

but the 2 inch number really isn't based on anything, and I myself wonder what kind of gains can be attained through this

I lean on the wayy lower side, if you look at this graph, the natural growth I have left should be around 5mm in each clavicle, so meaning 1 cm in total - can we boost this by 50% or by 100%?

because 2 inches is a 500% increase...

View attachment 1833855


@AverageTevvezFan what's your bidelt now at untrained at 17 bro?


thanks for the source bro, i'll check out the video and the article

Ironically, my bidelt was only 19 inches last time I measured.

That is why I went ahead and did this much research and tried to compile as much information as I could find about the topic, as I of all people need to know this stuff and stop being so narrow.

Then again, I can't framemaxx properly at the moment (school/parent issues) and I have not had a chance to partake in the cycle designs I've created and so my bidelt cannot be used as a measure of how accurate my guide is.

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

@AverageTevvezFan check this shit that I just found - ossification grade of the Medial Clavicular Epiphysis on Chest Radiographs
View attachment 1833923

Spoiler: Guide

Representative images of each ossification grade. White arrows indicate the cortical line at the medial end of clavicle. Grade 1 (invisible ossification center). The medial end of cortex is concave in shape and has an irregular margin with a thin cortical rim.;

Grade 2 (visible ossification center without any ossification of epiphyseal cartilage). (A) The medial end of clavicle is convex in shape and has two layers of radiopaque cortical lines thicker than 1 mm at the full vertical length along with a full sharp radiolucent line with an even thickness which opens at both the top and bottom of the clavicle. (B) Epiphyseal ossification may be present as a less radiopaque density (empty arrow head) at the half of the vertical length;

Grade 3 (visible ossification center with partial ossification of epiphyseal cartilage). The medial end of clavicle is convex or flat in shape and has two layers of radiopaque cortical lines thicker than 1 mm at a portion of the vertical length. The vertical radiolucent line has an irregular margin and thickness, which is interrupted (A) or closed by radiopaque area (B) either at the top or bottom;

Grade 4 (complete ossification of epiphyseal cartilage with epiphyseal scar). (A) The medial end of clavicle is flat or convex in shape and has a broad cortical line 1-2 mm or thicker. There is no mach band phenomenon. Thin vertical line, epiphyseal scar (white arrow head) is visible adjacent to the cortical line. (B) The lateral margin may be amorphous and density of adjacent bone is mildly increased;

Grade 5 (complete ossification of epiphyseal cartilage without epiphyseal scar). The medial end of clavicle is flat or convex in shape and has a thin even cortical line with an adjacent slit-like radiolucent line due to mach band phenomenon (A). The lateral margin of cortical line is even and sharp. The cortical line of medial clavicular end may be thicker up to 2 mm but evenness and sharpness are preserved at its full vertical length (B). Oblique positioning of the sternal facet at X-ray exposure may produce two layers of sharp radiopaque cortical lines thinner than 1 mm which are far apart at center and joined at the top and bottom resulting in a teardrop appearance (C).

Spoiler: Source

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/307902805_Ossification_of_the_Medial_Clavicular_Epiphysis_on_Chest_Radiographs_Utility_and_Diagnostic_Accuracy_in_Identifying_Korean_Adolescents_and_Young_Adults_under_the_Age_of_Majority

and this is my clavicle:
View attachment 1833926


THIS SHIT DOES NOT LOOK FUSED AT ALL

My bad bro, I based my decision on whether it looked fused or not on the growth plate itself. Initially I didn't think it looked fused due to the lack of opacity in the bone I couldn't let myself give you hope due to that growth plate.

But hey, at least you're surprised in a good way instead of a bad way.

 

[serbiangandy]

Can I get a frame rate? Been gymcelling for almost a year but I’ve had almost no progress, I’ve probaly added .5-1 inch on my bidelt

 

[Mongrelcel]

Ironically, my bidelt was only 19 inches last time I measured.

not bad for a 17 yo, considering the growth is more or less linear, and you still will grow untl 25

just an anecdote, last time I measured (like a half year ro year ago), mine was 19.5, now that i measured today, it was 20 - and I was in better shape back then

Then again, I can't framemaxx properly at the moment (school/parent issues) and I have not had a chance to partake in the cycle designs I've created and so my bidelt cannot be used as a measure of how accurate my guide is.

obviously

My bad bro, I based my decision on whether it looked fused or not on the growth plate itself. Initially I didn't think it looked fused due to the lack of opacity in the bone I couldn't let myself give you hope due to that growth plate.

But hey, at least you're surprised in a good way instead of a bad way.

according to the guide I found it looks good tho

 

[hockeyguy64785]

can you get a bigger frame / framemaxx while going on something like fin/RU

@AverageTevvezFan

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

can you get a bigger frame / framemaxx while going on something like fin/RU

@AverageTevvezFan

Topical dutasteride. Read the full guide brah.

 

[AverageTevvezFan]

Can I get a frame rate? Been gymcelling for almost a year but I’ve had almost no progress, I’ve probaly added .5-1 inch on my bidelt

Above average in terms of ratios, I think you have good frame potential.

Your side delt insertions are good, but your hip to waist ratio could be better. That will likely get fixed by gymcelling though (more size on the obliques and less fat on the hips).

Could use a slightly bigger ribcage, but you have to balance that with widening the clavicles as well to maintain a good ribcage:shoulder ratio.

 

[Zures]

holy fuck this guide is so well made i'm literally crying rn
ffs so well made congrats keep it up, you are VERY high iq, fellow greycel

 

[Zures]

I will post a video of me doing this in the comments when I get home from my holiday.

yooo i'm looking forward to this

 

[Zures]

this is BOTB worth imo
@tyronelite @AscendingHero @mods

 

[Zures]

It's unlikely. Don't worry about it. I'm not even VIP, I would have to buy that first.

btw, why delete it?

 

[tyronelite]

this is BOTB worth imo
@tyronelite @AscendingHero @mods

We already have a botb frame guide

 

[Deleted member 8365]

Great thread, however HGH, CJC, MK677 etc. are sub IGF-1 DES/LR3; HGH is a stress hormone, and the hormone that actually does the growing is IGF-1.
So using GH secretagogues is sub optimal, in my opinion.
Why not just go straight to the point, avoid the stress, avoid the diabetes, get a more effective drug; IGF-1 DES/LR3.
My guide is simple;
Pin DES into side delt/upper chest EOD (50mg each side) for 4 weeks
Pin LR3 wherever (I go lat) on non DES days.
Also, if LR3 caused cancer, then so would any other growth hormone, except maybe DES.

I will incorporate those exercises to my routine though.

It would be Nice if you post à more detailled guide about that

 

[Zures]

We already have a botb frame guide

why can't we have 2?
or remove the older one since this one is way better and more detailed

 

[SteveRogers]

It would be Nice if you post à more detailled guide about that

I’m collaborating with other users to do just that

 

[Deleted member 8365]

I’m collaborating with other users to do just that

Imma follow for your next guide INSHALLAH

 

[enchanted_elixir]

Reply to this comment so I can remind myself to read this.

 

[Zures]

Reply to this comment so I can remind myself to read this.

.

 

[Zures]

yo @AverageTevvezFan did you include any information from the "Wider Shoulder Bones" by Harley Road course?
I downloaded it from a dude who bought it, see if you can download it: