Why are users here so unwilling to accept the changes in the dating market in recent times? (Superthread)

[Deleted member 100069]

In eastern europe they prefer white skin men. and ethnics are actually lower smv than natives unlike the cucked west

Literally the opposite you braindead retard.

 

[Bitchwhipper2]

 

[Deleted member 100069]

@6ft4 how many women approach you each time you go clubbing, starting the convo with obvious IOIs like complimenting your looks?

 

[Foreverbrad]

Seems like a fairly accurate take. But would you go so far as to say the halo effect no longer exists and that looksmaxxing no longer has a purpose?

 

[6ft4]

Literally the opposite you braindead retard.

Just adding this to the thread since it supports the idea that "Just be the biggest Mogger bro" or "You'll always lose out to the bigger mogger" simply doesn't apply in 2024 (especially not in Poland but I'll say it's true in most of europe now wheres in the 2010s, just be the bigger mogger was actually a legitimate take)

 

[Deleted member 77820]

Hi

1990s
Intentionally going out to a nightlife venue to meet someone to settle down with was seen as a normal activity and things like matchmaking festivals were commonplace and not seen as desperate.

For anyone who didn't meet a partner through social circle, bars/venues were seen as a place to go to actively try to meet someone to settle down with so most people in the venues were there for a specific goal if they were single.
I'll outline how this changes later

2000-2009:
Possibly the Golden era for club slaying because seeking relationships were no longer the primary focus of dating and all voluntary M/F interactions

People born in the 1980s (millenials) were probably the most liberally brainwashed group the world has seen while also being the least focused on settling down and had the least knowledge on the impact caused to society down the line by throwing off the shackles of religion and conservatism and sleeping without a care and not worrying about seeking marriage or kids until you reach 30.

Most euro countries were still ethnostates so there was still the idea that the 50th percentile native man was a good catch and with the economy in a good position, the average white was a good LTR prospect in terms of what he could provide.

MTNs were effectively seen as the attractive looks level with legitimately good looking guys standing out and cleaning up but once the 2 or 3 goodlooking guys in the venue had a girl to leave the club with, the 40 foids remaining in the club who went out to the venue that night with the intention of fucking had to choose between MTNs

View attachment 3210815

The extent of media in this time was text messaging and digital cameras with no NTs having heard about online dating

Clubs were fun af and less serious without everyone being self obsessed and trying to mog and analyze their competition



2010-2014:

This is when shows highlighting the british club slaying culture on party islands started to take off

Spoiler

Social Media exploded and all of a sudden people could slay by messaging through facebook, not just by having to go to a club to meet up

Roids Tats and Tan game starts to gain popularity and suddenly everyone is implementing at least one of the three to try to gain an edge on the competition because suddenly slaying isn't just something that happens here and there thanks to your "chat" when you go out to hit on girls with your mates, but suddenly normies try to ascend to match the slaying results of the naturally goodlooking guys

(Shit like this on tv also had an influence)
View attachment 3210806

I think shit like Geordie Shore actually had a massive impact on ruining club game because people seen these guys slaying from series two onwards after they gained status which caused normies to develop ambitions to slay every night they went out so they looksmaxxed as much as they could to try achieve this but since many other guys were doing it, it only gave them a temporary edge until their competition caught up



In 2012 snapchat, instagram and tinder came out which had a drastic impact on the market

2012 tinder was apparently heaven for slaying if you were in your peak at that time, this wouldve had a drastic impact on the women of that time shifting a portion of the ONS they'd have in durin the course of a year over to tinder and away from clubs
This kind of profile would be Maher tier in 2012-14
View attachment 3210807

This was a GigaChad in early instagram days
View attachment 3210808

I started clubbing in mid 2013 and there was still something good about the energy in clubs, you'd see barely any moggers @forvergymcelling and being a MTN actually got you decent results.
I remember being on a dancefloor with a guy who had a v-neck top and looked like he had 18 months of natty chest gains and a foid came up and started touching his chest and flirting, I was twink mode at the time but in the following months I got natty gains and had pec squeezes from random foids while still having a mediocre natty physique that I just showed off with skin tight shirts.
Some foids were still attention seeking cunts dont get me wrong, but you still felt like you were in with a shot of slaying given that girls would give you a chance but sometimes you wouldnt get over the line

Things began to change during the course of 2014 though and it was like the effects of the things mentioned caused an avalanche coming towards the end of 2014 entering into 2015

2012 was the time when PSL was born and a small amount of people on the internet came to the agreement that behaviour for getting girls through unfamiliar methods (daygame, clubbing) was cope and now looks were all that mattered.

As I mentioned earlier, in the 2000s behaviour and ability to chat a girl up in a club actually would've been a legitimate dating strategy for most men because a MTN was seen as a good catch even in unfamiliar club environment (altho it was still semi familiar in the 2000s because everyone felt like extended family in closer community ethnostate) but in the 2010-14 era, with the economy doing shit, mens main means of outcompeting each other was now their looks and physique.

Obsession with looks theory was born but I will explain later why this belief legitimate for it's time has passed it's sell-by date in it's previous form


2015-2019

This is what I'd describe as the modern era of clubbing where the competition cemented to a point where every guy had a haircut that haloed them (long on top ideal for subpar bones)
Suddenly nobody had pale skin failo or greasy skin as was the case in the 2010s.

Less attractive guys got weeded out way quicker than previous eras when they could still go out and have a decent night with their mates but now it would be impossible for them to cope due to the competition

Roids and Tats probably reached their peak halo during this stage and were heading towards the point of going out of fashion / looking try hard / looking like a caricature who basically dedicated his whole life and image towards trying to impress foids in a nightclub.

View attachment 3210823

Most euro countries are no longer ethnostates so the vibe of venues is ruined by ethnics going to great lengths to try to compete for white women.

White foids use the ethnic's over eagerness to pull to try pitt him against the white man as if to say "look how badly this niglet wants me, if you want to outcompete him you have to step up your desperation levels in your pursuit white man"

This was when I hit my peak slaying days so it was definitely still possible to be a club slayer but I noticed in 2019 in particular, a venue I worked in I seen almost no guys approaching girls at random despite them all being 18-20

When I started clubbing in 2013 it was just a given that when you finally have the chance to approach random girls under the influence of alcohol you turn into a dog off a leash. From what I could see youngcels were high inhib and people just interacted with strangers less.

I'd say in this era girls became more stingy with who they gave out IOIs to, whereas a mogger pre 2014 was getting sexually harassed by girls on a dancefloor.
The rise of "influencer culture" also ruined things since normie foids seen themselves as celebs and took themselves way too seriously and went out solely to get pics which ruins the vibe of venues when theyre full of narcy cunts

Foids were also massive attention whores at this point, maybe a subset always were but at least in the 90s there were girls who went out to meet a partner, in the 2000s there were plenty of girls out to fuck, 2010-14 foids were still kinda going with the flow but standards to fuck were increasing but after the looksmaxxing explosion post 2015 its like girls getting approached by better looking guys didn't cause them to fuck more, it just caused them to get more enjoyment from rejecting because they had more goodlooking guys to reject to fuel their ego.
Rejecting some LTN wouldnt fuel their ego in the same way

Tinder levelled off in this era, not as easy to slay as 2012-13 based on misc stories but a decent looking guy could still do fairly well.
It didnt appear to be getting progressively harder year on year. The algorithm seemed relatively fair.

2020-2024

The most immediate difference I noticed in 2020 was tinder going to shit since more attention seeking foids who never intended on using the app to actually meet began flooding the app and in this year I had 10 planned meetups in a row who all flaked.

I managed 3 tinder meetups across 2021-2022, two of which were meetups in public which led nowhere and one was a straight over to the house slay
DoctorLooksmax mentioned how he was able to get girls straight over to the house to slay in 2020 with shitty pics before he was fully looksmaxxed, yet in 2023 with every aspect of his online dating profiles optimized and being in his most looksmaxxed state he had to slay via dates since he couldn't get girls straight over to the house any more.

The tinder algorithm changed DRASTICALLY from 2018 to 2021 and beyond since I was able to get 100 matches in the first 48 hours after making an account by swiping right on every foid in 2018. By 2021, swiping right on every foid would result in me getting about 5 matches with another 5 hidden and due to limited likes I'd quickly run out of likes and would have to pay to see the hidden profiles who liked me.
Foids standards may have changed but in 2018 I was using a shitty selfie in a dull room with a €2 primark t-shirt as my main pic with my other pics being gymcel mirror selfies and only one NT social pic.
In 2023 I tried to give it everything I could by using an array of NT pics taken post surgery with morphs on top of that, one even had me heightmogging a group of 3 other goodlooking chaps (incelcon pic) and height could now be added to your profile which wasn't the case prior to 2020, yet my results were pathetic by comparison to 2018.

Even Bartek PUA mentioned how his results on hinge used to be really good but he took a break from it for a few months and when he made a new account he said only low quality girls he didnt even want to swipe right on were being shown to him and he assumed that they changed the algo to try force people to pay for the paid version once the app had enough popularity and userbase gained whereas the previous algo gave fair results to get people to use initially

Due to foids sitting at home on their phones all day in 2020, foids standards for face probably skyrocketed thanks to tiktok only showing them countless moggers daily.
By this point foids were completely desensitized to seeing guys with perfect physiques online since they'd been exposed to it on instagram for years now whereas a roidcel physique actually had a great deal of novelty to it in the mid 2010s.
Now its just a case of having something foids have seen (through a screen) 1000x before so it doesn't provide as much novelty as seeing a new mogger face since that's more unique to each person than a roided physique.

Even though roiding and gaining a 10/10 body was seen as a massive halo for a MTN previously, it now seemed as tho the minimum face needed to have casual sex from tinder/clubs raised to HTN meaning that a large portion of guys who could slay through non face related looksmaxxes were now counted out of the game, meaning that the popularity of gymcelling and fitted clothes decreased as focus switched back to face.

Now lets take a look at nightlife.
I went out once in late 2021 by sneaking into a venue without the vax pass having not been in a venue since early 2020
The first thing I noticed was how retarded foids were since there was an outdoor area that was always crammed with random people mingling with each other but on this night all the foids segregated themselves to their own group of tables away from any guys, as if they wanted to make it as easy as possible to reject any guy who would take the blatant move of walking over to approach. I put this down to the venue being full of retarded chav foids when it used to be for normal people but the dogshit atmosphere I noticed that night really seemed to stick in subsequent nights.
I genuinely believe people's behaviour has become fucking retarded after getting the vax or maybe people who didnt get vaxxed dropped out of society and stopped socializing after realizing during the lockdowns how retarded normies are, I would say this was the case for me to a pretty large extent.
The vibe in clubs now is just fucking dead and miserable although it was heading that way year on year since 2013 but I still witnessed a mogger night in 2019 in a 100% white student venue.

I got one slay in a club in 2022 upen my return to clubs and in 2023-2024 post surgery when I went out a lot I had 10 nights out in a row without a slay which wouldve been unthinkable at any previous point in my life since I started college.
You could say I just dont have the appetitie to dumpster dive any more which is true but I was still going for chubsters who used to be easy slays in 2017-19 but now they weren't. I even was denied a slay by having a chubster say I was too goodlooking to approach her so something had to be wrong, whereas I believe the slight underbite I had previously made them more comfortable fucking me since I had a failo which justified me approaching them.

I also encountered foids who said that they go out clubbing solely to be in the company of their friends and said regardless of what level of guy approached them or how attractive they found him, they would not under any circumstances pursue something with a guy from a club because they claim to be only seeking LTR not ONS and also claim that they would never date a guy who they first met in a club even if he wanted to date and go the LTR route.
They compartmentalize a goodlooking, ideal potential BF who they first encounter in a club as a worse prospect than some subhuman they're forced to be around in daily life.

What I said in the 2015-19 era about IOIs being harder to come by also applies to this era to a greater extent, foids just dont care as much when they see a mogger. Like I said the novelty of roidcel halo has wore off and not the novelty of having a mogger face is wearing off as well unless GIGA rare.
Foids just dont want to give men any power today and this is why I say we're in a post mogging era.
Foids are actually more likely to punish a guy who tried to mog and falls short of top mogger than they are to punish a guy who did nothing to improve or compete on mogging.

Women punish you more for trying to compete and falling short of first place than not trying to compete against other men at all

By "trying to compete" I mean trying to be as goodlooking as you can and present yourself as well as you can and mog as many men as you can. I use "first place" vaguely in the sense that if you are the third biggest mogger in a club you can still be perceived as being in first place / top of the...

looksmax.org

Foids are just worn out by casual sex with moggers who wont commit because they're now bombarded with messaging that men hate sluts (thanks to countless podcasts, street interviews etc discussing bodycount) whereas millenial foids for example weren't even aware that being sluts would drastically lower their value or chances of getting married since most men of that era were bluepilled due to the lack of internet/media discussion around bodycounts.

Spoiler

many foids now severely depressed from fucking around

JFL @ this foid, talks about emotional damage of casual sex then says she's not having sex again until she's married

Finds a guy to marry 6 months later

looksmax.org

Rather than foids choosing a happy medium of seeking an LTR with their looksmatch and holding off on moggers unless they show legit LTR interest, they have gone to the extreme of giving casual sex to the top 1% of guys they see on tinder but when it comes to a relationship they want complete security in choosing a guy they think would never leave them.

This is what foids see as the most risk averse strategy and its the strategy most foids are going all-in on post 2020, fuck a 1% guy from online if they feel like fulfilling sexual urges but also not going all in on slutmaxxing like past generations because all girls are mentally damaged before they hit 18 from over-dopamine through social media so they seek an LTR and tend to seek out the biggest subhuman they can find who worships them and they have complete control over and can treat like shit if they please.

@Whatever can vouch for his sister only dating subhumans who no other girl wanted because she was so desperate for control.
The UK PSLers I speak with outside of the forum have also stated how its an "oofy doofy" world now, and every above average girl seems to be dating a below average guy intentionally, whereas before it was a case of most couples being looksmatched and the lower looks level guys genuinely struggling more than average guys.
Now it seems to be the case of average guys who are trying to improve struggling way more than LTNs who are happy to bask in their own subhumanity and not improve in any way and be legit slobs.
I have an extensive post history showing examples of this but typing this thread is just too exhausting to go find them.

The influx of ethnics post 2020 has also been detrimental because now if you go to a venue there might be 40 ethnics in the venue trying to compete while there are next to no ethnic women to balance this out.
Foids also dont want to be outdoors anymore and want to limit their actions with men and strangers to the minimum amount possible due to getting harrassed by ethnics in the daytime the second they are discovered to be alone.
The problem is, with foids now switching to getting with LTNs for LTRs, that means that almost every ethnic is now on the table as a prospect for a white foid since most ethnics fall in the LTN range.
I didn't want to believe it and previously gave foid sentience more credit than it deserves but white foids are legitimately retarded enough to engage in LTRs with LTN ethnics.

@nofap has stated how he's seeing white HTBs with ethnic LTNs constantly.

Just be anything but white theory is legit in 2024

Last Saturday i went out to a restaurant and i saw 3 blonde htb women each eating alone with pan faced asain manlets, one off them had ugly oily spikey hair that reeked. i couldn’t believe my eyes and smoked a pack in the 2,5 hours i was there because of extreme mental stress, I barely ate...

looksmax.org

It's almost as if a foid who's failed at dating (because she fucked a couple of moggers and ruined her ability to pairbond) now sees dating a LTN ethnic as the safe bet to have a couple of kids and also a way to get back at the white moggers who didnt commit
They can also get with ethnics due to taking pity on them but also due to them being more primitive and low inhib than the native men because they have far less to lose since they're at the bottom of the hierarchy by default.
Foids will never take pity on a MTN-HTN white guy regardless of how much effort he is making to make a good life for himself but hasnt quite hit his stride yet.

Also I have a theory that foids are just willing to fuck the invading group regardless of whether they mog the natives or are subhuman compared to the natives, regardless of whether they're invading by invite and stepping off a plane or invading by brute force, foids dont distinguish one as requiring strength and one as being meaningless, they simply see someone of a different race walking around and subconsiously think that he must have a great level of status if he can just walk around freely without being killed by the majority, he must be the one who's ruling the native masses.


TO SUMMARIZE:
I wish it was still a case of mogger looks being the single most important thing in dating as was the case from 2010-2019, but the fact is that it was just a brief window in time.
Are Looks still the most important thing? Yes but not for the reason you think, LTN/Subhuman looks are actually a benefit over being MTN for finding a relationship, so looks are still the determining factor, but its no longer a case of more looks = more relationship success.

Pre 2010 Looks didnt really matter to a huge degree because so few guys stood out for their looks (since almost nobody was looksmaxxed) and relying on chat/charisma and the fact you were good financially in an ethnostate was enough to attract most girls as a MTN.

From 2010-2019, the economy got worse and men tried to outcompete each other by increasing their looks because women gave their pussy to the highest looks bidder when a roidcel body or HTN face still had extreme novelty but was decreasing in value year on year.
This is when PSL was born and the blackpill made sense at the time given the dating market and explosion of online dating and tinder experiments showing difference in treatment of Chad v normie online.

From 2020-2024, many whites are in a position of hopelessness financially and hopelessness in terms of having a family since they wont own a home.
All looksmaxxing has more or less been tapped out and men look as good as they're ever going to look.
The bidding for females vaginas isn't going to get much higher and foids have casual sex fatigue and the novelty of seeing counless moggers online has worn off and this punished all decent looking guys irl as a result.
Foids have made the mental switch to wanting a relationship but since they associate everything to do with a white man trying to enhance his lot in life as negative/wannabe mogger, they've switched to almost exclusively dating LTN/Subhuman whites or LTN/Subhuman ethnics.
Ethnic influx is stacking the odds even more against MTN white

This forum was created in 2019 in the final remnants of the looks theory era, dating has changed but the people on here are still parroting shit that applied the most in the mid 2010s, the world has moved on.
I discovered the importance of having mogger looks for success in the dating market of the time before most of you knew what a forum was and while everyone except for a few thousand men worldwide was stuck between the blue and red pill.
Now I am telling you that the blackpill is finished and no longer applies the same way it used to, I lived through to peak "blackpill" era and now I am seeing it's demise due to socieconomic factors and changes in foid behaviour, I am always ahead of the curve and waiting for others to catch up on these things
@Clavicular[/USER
[/QUOTE]
High iq thread

 

[Gengar]

This was a GigaChad in early instagram days

He's Israeli.

 

[losthope]

The tinder algorithm changed DRASTICALLY from 2018 to 2021 and beyond since I was able to get 100 matches in the first 48 hours after making an account by swiping right on every foid in 2018. By 2021, swiping right on every foid would result in me getting about 5 matches with another 5 hidden and due to limited likes I'd quickly run out of likes and would have to pay to see the hidden profiles who liked me.
Foids standards may have changed but in 2018 I was using a shitty selfie in a dull room with a €2 primark t-shirt as my main pic with my other pics being gymcel mirror selfies and only one NT social pic.
In 2023 I tried to give it everything I could by using an array of NT pics taken post surgery with morphs on top of that, one even had me heightmogging a group of 3 other goodlooking chaps (incelcon pic) and height could now be added to your profile which wasn't the case prior to 2020, yet my results were pathetic by comparison to 2018.

Tinder algo has definitely changed a lot. Now it seems to cap you after some matches, I've seen its usually around 30-40. When I have tried creating my account within half an hour I'd get 30-40 matches and then it would just stop there like it stops showing you to new users. And doesn't matter which country I am in. I can be in South East Asia but after that number is hit the matches just tank. Earlier within a couple of hours you could get 200+ matches. They want you to pay now. On Tinder paying is a must now for a man.

 

[DNRDniggerking]

its not that deep unc.

foids see moggers everyday on tiktok --> foids look for nearby moggers through social media --> moggers are high T with insane sex drive --> moggers fuck everything and anything --> foids are hypergamous and since being fucked by moggers they wont give non moggers a chance anymore --> raped society ITS OVER

 

[sqwertyl]

They're adapting. Just like men on these forums are holding out for better options. They're gaining commitment and resources in the meantime. Most are holding off for the best option still (none at the moment). Also it's forcing men to adapt in response. You need everything now. Looks alone are not enough. It's clearly working too based on the responses here.

Also could be the economy as well and AI taking over. They're taking a "wait and see" approach since everything is so uncertain now. Safest option usually the best and forces every one else to compete and try harder. The right move is just not to try. Just rot until they come to their senses.

 

[Deleted member 101809]

You’re a retard, the so called changed you’re describing amount to dating apps not working anymore and therefore women settling for the first thing that comes


There’s a conspiracy to lower the population so they don’t even allow men and women to match anymore on top making it required to pay for any matches. I suspect if you’re a subhuman or of the right race that they don’t consider a threat that then they give you the best matches, they are pushing dysgenetics and depopulation, the idea that they’re gonna allow the best men and best women to match is ridiculous if you understand anything about who runs the modern world

 

[6ft4]

You’re a retard, the so called changed you’re describing amount to dating apps not working anymore and therefore women settling for the first thing that comes


There’s a conspiracy to lower the population so they don’t even allow men and women to match anymore on top making it required to pay for any matches. I suspect if you’re a subhuman or of the right race that they don’t consider a threat that then they give you the best matches, they are pushing dysgenetics and depopulation, the idea that they’re gonna allow the best men and best women to match is ridiculous if you understand anything about who runs the modern world

The tinder algorithm changed DRASTICALLY from 2018 to 2021 and beyond since I was able to get 100 matches in the first 48 hours after making an account by swiping right on every foid in 2018. By 2021, swiping right on every foid would result in me getting about 5 matches with another 5 hidden and due to limited likes I'd quickly run out of likes and would have to pay to see the hidden profiles who liked me.
Foids standards may have changed but in 2018 I was using a shitty selfie in a dull room with a €2 primark t-shirt as my main pic with my other pics being gymcel mirror selfies and only one NT social pic.

Even Bartek PUA mentioned how his results on hinge used to be really good but he took a break from it for a few months and when he made a new account he said only low quality girls he didnt even want to swipe right on were being shown to him and he assumed that they changed the algo to try force people to pay for the paid version once the app had enough popularity and userbase gained whereas the previous algo gave fair results to get people to use initially

Hey greycel, shut the fuck up

 

[floopmaxxed]

U just need to live in a poor area and u will still get iois and girls if ur a mogger. Poor area= mostly ugly ppl. I live in a poor part of England and get both easy. Also u might need to lower ur standards. U should fk as much as possible as a man for practise. Even girls tht u dont find super attractive u should be fking.

you retards have no right to complain about sluts after saying this

 

[Deleted member 101809]

Hey greycel, shut the fuck up

You’re an unemployed 30 year old wondering why you can’t get women, let me spell it out for you, you’re a loser and a weirdo

 

[FutureSlayer]

What I am curious about is how the second part of the 2020s will unfold, because as you have mentioned, men at this point are more or less aware and have maxed out their potential. The plastic surgery industry is growing steadily, but in the grand scheme of things it won’t change most men’s life. Guys might blast roids or HGH in their puberty, but that also has a cap.

My point is, I give it a few years max until looksmaxxing methods get so mainstream everyone who is not a permarotter will have the means to reach their own genetic limit.

What happens after that?

civil war

 

[Prettyboy]

civil war

I doubt anything of that sort will happen because most guys are too emaciated nowadays. They would rather rot on discord than to burn cars on the streets for societal change

 

[FutureSlayer]

I doubt anything of that sort will happen because most guys are too emaciated nowadays. They would rather rot on discord than to burn cars on the streets for societal change

Steroids are more wide spread than ever

 

[Prettyboy]

Steroids are more wide spread than ever

I doubt they would help with mental strength of men tbh. Endogenous testosterone also raises estrogen, juicers are even bigger sentimental bitches than the average guy

 

[Whatever]

You’re a retard, the so called changed you’re describing amount to dating apps not working anymore and therefore women settling for the first thing that comes


There’s a conspiracy to lower the population so they don’t even allow men and women to match anymore on top making it required to pay for any matches. I suspect if you’re a subhuman or of the right race that they don’t consider a threat that then they give you the best matches, they are pushing dysgenetics and depopulation, the idea that they’re gonna allow the best men and best women to match is ridiculous if you understand anything about who runs the modern world

Have you found any concrete evidence or what’s your experience with them fucking with the algorithms? Because on Hinge I wasn’t getting much at first, then I paid and started matching with prime HTB+, now I’m not paying and not getting much again. It definitely goes in weird patterns like that. My theories are that it shows guys who don’t pay inactive accounts and maybe “eats” their outgoing likes, for sure it puts them at the bottom of some girl’s hundreds of likes.

 

[Deleted member 101809]

Have you found any concrete evidence or what’s your experience with them fucking with the algorithms? Because on Hinge I wasn’t getting much at first, then I paid and started matching with prime HTB+, now I’m not paying and not getting much again. It definitely goes in weird patterns like that. My theories are that it shows guys who don’t pay inactive accounts and maybe “eats” their outgoing likes, for sure it puts them at the bottom of some girl’s hundreds of likes.

There’s tons of evidence, just look in Reddit even they know. When you first start you get a few likes to get you to pay for it, for example. Sometimes when swiping they will say I’ve ran out of people to like even though if I use a different profile they’ll show me different people.

Not sure it’s worth my time trying to prove it further than that.

It’s pretty clear they’re trying to lower the population, it’s highly unlikely they would allow these apps to work normally. So I highly doubt just paying will make it fair, they are essentially picking who breeds with who with these apps and they want dysgentics.

And I’ve talked to women, the guys they are shown are subhumans from looking at their profiles. Maybe that’s how men look now but considering the competition, it’s hard to understand why normal looking males here are struggling so much other than the algorithm.

 

[TitusA]

you retards have no right to complain about sluts after saying this

never complained about them

 

[Deleted member 59811]

1990s
Intentionally going out to a nightlife venue to meet someone to settle down with was seen as a normal activity and things like matchmaking festivals were commonplace and not seen as desperate.

For anyone who didn't meet a partner through social circle, bars/venues were seen as a place to go to actively try to meet someone to settle down with so most people in the venues were there for a specific goal if they were single.
I'll outline how this changes later

2000-2009:
Possibly the Golden era for club slaying because seeking relationships were no longer the primary focus of dating and all voluntary M/F interactions

People born in the 1980s (millenials) were probably the most liberally brainwashed group the world has seen while also being the least focused on settling down and had the least knowledge on the impact caused to society down the line by throwing off the shackles of religion and conservatism and sleeping without a care and not worrying about seeking marriage or kids until you reach 30.

Most euro countries were still ethnostates so there was still the idea that the 50th percentile native man was a good catch and with the economy in a good position, the average white was a good LTR prospect in terms of what he could provide.

MTNs were effectively seen as the attractive looks level with legitimately good looking guys standing out and cleaning up but once the 2 or 3 goodlooking guys in the venue had a girl to leave the club with, the 40 foids remaining in the club who went out to the venue that night with the intention of fucking had to choose between MTNs

View attachment 3210815

The extent of media in this time was text messaging and digital cameras with no NTs having heard about online dating

Clubs were fun af and less serious without everyone being self obsessed and trying to mog and analyze their competition



2010-2014:

This is when shows highlighting the british club slaying culture on party islands started to take off

Spoiler

Social Media exploded and all of a sudden people could slay by messaging through facebook, not just by having to go to a club to meet up

Roids Tats and Tan game starts to gain popularity and suddenly everyone is implementing at least one of the three to try to gain an edge on the competition because suddenly slaying isn't just something that happens here and there thanks to your "chat" when you go out to hit on girls with your mates, but suddenly normies try to ascend to match the slaying results of the naturally goodlooking guys

(Shit like this on tv also had an influence)
View attachment 3210806

I think shit like Geordie Shore actually had a massive impact on ruining club game because people seen these guys slaying from series two onwards after they gained status which caused normies to develop ambitions to slay every night they went out so they looksmaxxed as much as they could to try achieve this but since many other guys were doing it, it only gave them a temporary edge until their competition caught up



In 2012 snapchat, instagram and tinder came out which had a drastic impact on the market

2012 tinder was apparently heaven for slaying if you were in your peak at that time, this wouldve had a drastic impact on the women of that time shifting a portion of the ONS they'd have in durin the course of a year over to tinder and away from clubs
This kind of profile would be Maher tier in 2012-14
View attachment 3210807

This was a GigaChad in early instagram days
View attachment 3210808

I started clubbing in mid 2013 and there was still something good about the energy in clubs, you'd see barely any moggers @forvergymcelling and being a MTN actually got you decent results.
I remember being on a dancefloor with a guy who had a v-neck top and looked like he had 18 months of natty chest gains and a foid came up and started touching his chest and flirting, I was twink mode at the time but in the following months I got natty gains and had pec squeezes from random foids while still having a mediocre natty physique that I just showed off with skin tight shirts.
Some foids were still attention seeking cunts dont get me wrong, but you still felt like you were in with a shot of slaying given that girls would give you a chance but sometimes you wouldnt get over the line

Things began to change during the course of 2014 though and it was like the effects of the things mentioned caused an avalanche coming towards the end of 2014 entering into 2015

2012 was the time when PSL was born and a small amount of people on the internet came to the agreement that behaviour for getting girls through unfamiliar methods (daygame, clubbing) was cope and now looks were all that mattered.

As I mentioned earlier, in the 2000s behaviour and ability to chat a girl up in a club actually would've been a legitimate dating strategy for most men because a MTN was seen as a good catch even in unfamiliar club environment (altho it was still semi familiar in the 2000s because everyone felt like extended family in closer community ethnostate) but in the 2010-14 era, with the economy doing shit, mens main means of outcompeting each other was now their looks and physique.

Obsession with looks theory was born but I will explain later why this belief legitimate for it's time has passed it's sell-by date in it's previous form


2015-2019

This is what I'd describe as the modern era of clubbing where the competition cemented to a point where every guy had a haircut that haloed them (long on top ideal for subpar bones)
Suddenly nobody had pale skin failo or greasy skin as was the case in the 2010s.

Less attractive guys got weeded out way quicker than previous eras when they could still go out and have a decent night with their mates but now it would be impossible for them to cope due to the competition

Roids and Tats probably reached their peak halo during this stage and were heading towards the point of going out of fashion / looking try hard / looking like a caricature who basically dedicated his whole life and image towards trying to impress foids in a nightclub.

View attachment 3210823

Most euro countries are no longer ethnostates so the vibe of venues is ruined by ethnics going to great lengths to try to compete for white women.

White foids use the ethnic's over eagerness to pull to try pitt him against the white man as if to say "look how badly this niglet wants me, if you want to outcompete him you have to step up your desperation levels in your pursuit white man"

This was when I hit my peak slaying days so it was definitely still possible to be a club slayer but I noticed in 2019 in particular, a venue I worked in I seen almost no guys approaching girls at random despite them all being 18-20

When I started clubbing in 2013 it was just a given that when you finally have the chance to approach random girls under the influence of alcohol you turn into a dog off a leash. From what I could see youngcels were high inhib and people just interacted with strangers less.

I'd say in this era girls became more stingy with who they gave out IOIs to, whereas a mogger pre 2014 was getting sexually harassed by girls on a dancefloor.
The rise of "influencer culture" also ruined things since normie foids seen themselves as celebs and took themselves way too seriously and went out solely to get pics which ruins the vibe of venues when theyre full of narcy cunts

Foids were also massive attention whores at this point, maybe a subset always were but at least in the 90s there were girls who went out to meet a partner, in the 2000s there were plenty of girls out to fuck, 2010-14 foids were still kinda going with the flow but standards to fuck were increasing but after the looksmaxxing explosion post 2015 its like girls getting approached by better looking guys didn't cause them to fuck more, it just caused them to get more enjoyment from rejecting because they had more goodlooking guys to reject to fuel their ego.
Rejecting some LTN wouldnt fuel their ego in the same way

Tinder levelled off in this era, not as easy to slay as 2012-13 based on misc stories but a decent looking guy could still do fairly well.
It didnt appear to be getting progressively harder year on year. The algorithm seemed relatively fair.

2020-2024

The most immediate difference I noticed in 2020 was tinder going to shit since more attention seeking foids who never intended on using the app to actually meet began flooding the app and in this year I had 10 planned meetups in a row who all flaked.

I managed 3 tinder meetups across 2021-2022, two of which were meetups in public which led nowhere and one was a straight over to the house slay
DoctorLooksmax mentioned how he was able to get girls straight over to the house to slay in 2020 with shitty pics before he was fully looksmaxxed, yet in 2023 with every aspect of his online dating profiles optimized and being in his most looksmaxxed state he had to slay via dates since he couldn't get girls straight over to the house any more.

The tinder algorithm changed DRASTICALLY from 2018 to 2021 and beyond since I was able to get 100 matches in the first 48 hours after making an account by swiping right on every foid in 2018. By 2021, swiping right on every foid would result in me getting about 5 matches with another 5 hidden and due to limited likes I'd quickly run out of likes and would have to pay to see the hidden profiles who liked me.
Foids standards may have changed but in 2018 I was using a shitty selfie in a dull room with a €2 primark t-shirt as my main pic with my other pics being gymcel mirror selfies and only one NT social pic.
In 2023 I tried to give it everything I could by using an array of NT pics taken post surgery with morphs on top of that, one even had me heightmogging a group of 3 other goodlooking chaps (incelcon pic) and height could now be added to your profile which wasn't the case prior to 2020, yet my results were pathetic by comparison to 2018.

Even Bartek PUA mentioned how his results on hinge used to be really good but he took a break from it for a few months and when he made a new account he said only low quality girls he didnt even want to swipe right on were being shown to him and he assumed that they changed the algo to try force people to pay for the paid version once the app had enough popularity and userbase gained whereas the previous algo gave fair results to get people to use initially

Due to foids sitting at home on their phones all day in 2020, foids standards for face probably skyrocketed thanks to tiktok only showing them countless moggers daily.
By this point foids were completely desensitized to seeing guys with perfect physiques online since they'd been exposed to it on instagram for years now whereas a roidcel physique actually had a great deal of novelty to it in the mid 2010s.
Now its just a case of having something foids have seen (through a screen) 1000x before so it doesn't provide as much novelty as seeing a new mogger face since that's more unique to each person than a roided physique.

Even though roiding and gaining a 10/10 body was seen as a massive halo for a MTN previously, it now seemed as tho the minimum face needed to have casual sex from tinder/clubs raised to HTN meaning that a large portion of guys who could slay through non face related looksmaxxes were now counted out of the game, meaning that the popularity of gymcelling and fitted clothes decreased as focus switched back to face.

Now lets take a look at nightlife.
I went out once in late 2021 by sneaking into a venue without the vax pass having not been in a venue since early 2020
The first thing I noticed was how retarded foids were since there was an outdoor area that was always crammed with random people mingling with each other but on this night all the foids segregated themselves to their own group of tables away from any guys, as if they wanted to make it as easy as possible to reject any guy who would take the blatant move of walking over to approach. I put this down to the venue being full of retarded chav foids when it used to be for normal people but the dogshit atmosphere I noticed that night really seemed to stick in subsequent nights.
I genuinely believe people's behaviour has become fucking retarded after getting the vax or maybe people who didnt get vaxxed dropped out of society and stopped socializing after realizing during the lockdowns how retarded normies are, I would say this was the case for me to a pretty large extent.
The vibe in clubs now is just fucking dead and miserable although it was heading that way year on year since 2013 but I still witnessed a mogger night in 2019 in a 100% white student venue.

I got one slay in a club in 2022 upen my return to clubs and in 2023-2024 post surgery when I went out a lot I had 10 nights out in a row without a slay which wouldve been unthinkable at any previous point in my life since I started college.
You could say I just dont have the appetitie to dumpster dive any more which is true but I was still going for chubsters who used to be easy slays in 2017-19 but now they weren't. I even was denied a slay by having a chubster say I was too goodlooking to approach her so something had to be wrong, whereas I believe the slight underbite I had previously made them more comfortable fucking me since I had a failo which justified me approaching them.

I also encountered foids who said that they go out clubbing solely to be in the company of their friends and said regardless of what level of guy approached them or how attractive they found him, they would not under any circumstances pursue something with a guy from a club because they claim to be only seeking LTR not ONS and also claim that they would never date a guy who they first met in a club even if he wanted to date and go the LTR route.
They compartmentalize a goodlooking, ideal potential BF who they first encounter in a club as a worse prospect than some subhuman they're forced to be around in daily life.

What I said in the 2015-19 era about IOIs being harder to come by also applies to this era to a greater extent, foids just dont care as much when they see a mogger. Like I said the novelty of roidcel halo has wore off and not the novelty of having a mogger face is wearing off as well unless GIGA rare.
Foids just dont want to give men any power today and this is why I say we're in a post mogging era.
Foids are actually more likely to punish a guy who tried to mog and falls short of top mogger than they are to punish a guy who did nothing to improve or compete on mogging.

Women punish you more for trying to compete and falling short of first place than not trying to compete against other men at all

By "trying to compete" I mean trying to be as goodlooking as you can and present yourself as well as you can and mog as many men as you can. I use "first place" vaguely in the sense that if you are the third biggest mogger in a club you can still be perceived as being in first place / top of the...

looksmax.org

Foids are just worn out by casual sex with moggers who wont commit because they're now bombarded with messaging that men hate sluts (thanks to countless podcasts, street interviews etc discussing bodycount) whereas millenial foids for example weren't even aware that being sluts would drastically lower their value or chances of getting married since most men of that era were bluepilled due to the lack of internet/media discussion around bodycounts.

Spoiler

many foids now severely depressed from fucking around

JFL @ this foid, talks about emotional damage of casual sex then says she's not having sex again until she's married

Finds a guy to marry 6 months later

looksmax.org

Rather than foids choosing a happy medium of seeking an LTR with their looksmatch and holding off on moggers unless they show legit LTR interest, they have gone to the extreme of giving casual sex to the top 1% of guys they see on tinder but when it comes to a relationship they want complete security in choosing a guy they think would never leave them.

This is what foids see as the most risk averse strategy and its the strategy most foids are going all-in on post 2020, fuck a 1% guy from online if they feel like fulfilling sexual urges but also not going all in on slutmaxxing like past generations because all girls are mentally damaged before they hit 18 from over-dopamine through social media so they seek an LTR and tend to seek out the biggest subhuman they can find who worships them and they have complete control over and can treat like shit if they please.

@Whatever can vouch for his sister only dating subhumans who no other girl wanted because she was so desperate for control.
The UK PSLers I speak with outside of the forum have also stated how its an "oofy doofy" world now, and every above average girl seems to be dating a below average guy intentionally, whereas before it was a case of most couples being looksmatched and the lower looks level guys genuinely struggling more than average guys.
Now it seems to be the case of average guys who are trying to improve struggling way more than LTNs who are happy to bask in their own subhumanity and not improve in any way and be legit slobs.
I have an extensive post history showing examples of this but typing this thread is just too exhausting to go find them.

The influx of ethnics post 2020 has also been detrimental because now if you go to a venue there might be 40 ethnics in the venue trying to compete while there are next to no ethnic women to balance this out.
Foids also dont want to be outdoors anymore and want to limit their actions with men and strangers to the minimum amount possible due to getting harrassed by ethnics in the daytime the second they are discovered to be alone.
The problem is, with foids now switching to getting with LTNs for LTRs, that means that almost every ethnic is now on the table as a prospect for a white foid since most ethnics fall in the LTN range.
I didn't want to believe it and previously gave foid sentience more credit than it deserves but white foids are legitimately retarded enough to engage in LTRs with LTN ethnics.

@nofap has stated how he's seeing white HTBs with ethnic LTNs constantly.

Just be anything but white theory is legit in 2024

Last Saturday i went out to a restaurant and i saw 3 blonde htb women each eating alone with pan faced asain manlets, one off them had ugly oily spikey hair that reeked. i couldn’t believe my eyes and smoked a pack in the 2,5 hours i was there because of extreme mental stress, I barely ate...

looksmax.org

It's almost as if a foid who's failed at dating (because she fucked a couple of moggers and ruined her ability to pairbond) now sees dating a LTN ethnic as the safe bet to have a couple of kids and also a way to get back at the white moggers who didnt commit
They can also get with ethnics due to taking pity on them but also due to them being more primitive and low inhib than the native men because they have far less to lose since they're at the bottom of the hierarchy by default.
Foids will never take pity on a MTN-HTN white guy regardless of how much effort he is making to make a good life for himself but hasnt quite hit his stride yet.

Also I have a theory that foids are just willing to fuck the invading group regardless of whether they mog the natives or are subhuman compared to the natives, regardless of whether they're invading by invite and stepping off a plane or invading by brute force, foids dont distinguish one as requiring strength and one as being meaningless, they simply see someone of a different race walking around and subconsiously think that he must have a great level of status if he can just walk around freely without being killed by the majority, he must be the one who's ruling the native masses.


TO SUMMARIZE:
I wish it was still a case of mogger looks being the single most important thing in dating as was the case from 2010-2019, but the fact is that it was just a brief window in time.
Are Looks still the most important thing? Yes but not for the reason you think, LTN/Subhuman looks are actually a benefit over being MTN for finding a relationship, so looks are still the determining factor, but its no longer a case of more looks = more relationship success.

Pre 2010 Looks didnt really matter to a huge degree because so few guys stood out for their looks (since almost nobody was looksmaxxed) and relying on chat/charisma and the fact you were good financially in an ethnostate was enough to attract most girls as a MTN.

From 2010-2019, the economy got worse and men tried to outcompete each other by increasing their looks because women gave their pussy to the highest looks bidder when a roidcel body or HTN face still had extreme novelty but was decreasing in value year on year.
This is when PSL was born and the blackpill made sense at the time given the dating market and explosion of online dating and tinder experiments showing difference in treatment of Chad v normie online.

From 2020-2024, many whites are in a position of hopelessness financially and hopelessness in terms of having a family since they wont own a home.
All looksmaxxing has more or less been tapped out and men look as good as they're ever going to look.
The bidding for females vaginas isn't going to get much higher and foids have casual sex fatigue and the novelty of seeing counless moggers online has worn off and this punished all decent looking guys irl as a result.
Foids have made the mental switch to wanting a relationship but since they associate everything to do with a white man trying to enhance his lot in life as negative/wannabe mogger, they've switched to almost exclusively dating LTN/Subhuman whites or LTN/Subhuman ethnics.
Ethnic influx is stacking the odds even more against MTN white

This forum was created in 2019 in the final remnants of the looks theory era, dating has changed but the people on here are still parroting shit that applied the most in the mid 2010s, the world has moved on.
I discovered the importance of having mogger looks for success in the dating market of the time before most of you knew what a forum was and while everyone except for a few thousand men worldwide was stuck between the blue and red pill.
Now I am telling you that the blackpill is finished and no longer applies the same way it used to, I lived through to peak "blackpill" era and now I am seeing it's demise due to socieconomic factors and changes in foid behaviour, I am always ahead of the curve and waiting for others to catch up on these things
@Clavicular

Intresting read but doesn't correspond to the many slay threads here, especially clavicular's jfl

 

[AustrianMogger]

dnr

 

[6ft4]

Speaks about the former popularity of nightclubs and why they're on the decline

 

[coolguyjames]

1990s
Intentionally going out to a nightlife venue to meet someone to settle down with was seen as a normal activity and things like matchmaking festivals were commonplace and not seen as desperate.

For anyone who didn't meet a partner through social circle, bars/venues were seen as a place to go to actively try to meet someone to settle down with so most people in the venues were there for a specific goal if they were single.
I'll outline how this changes later

2000-2009:
Possibly the Golden era for club slaying because seeking relationships were no longer the primary focus of dating and all voluntary M/F interactions

People born in the 1980s (millenials) were probably the most liberally brainwashed group the world has seen while also being the least focused on settling down and had the least knowledge on the impact caused to society down the line by throwing off the shackles of religion and conservatism and sleeping without a care and not worrying about seeking marriage or kids until you reach 30.

Most euro countries were still ethnostates so there was still the idea that the 50th percentile native man was a good catch and with the economy in a good position, the average white was a good LTR prospect in terms of what he could provide.

MTNs were effectively seen as the attractive looks level with legitimately good looking guys standing out and cleaning up but once the 2 or 3 goodlooking guys in the venue had a girl to leave the club with, the 40 foids remaining in the club who went out to the venue that night with the intention of fucking had to choose between MTNs

View attachment 3210815

The extent of media in this time was text messaging and digital cameras with no NTs having heard about online dating

Clubs were fun af and less serious without everyone being self obsessed and trying to mog and analyze their competition



2010-2014:

This is when shows highlighting the british club slaying culture on party islands started to take off

Spoiler

Social Media exploded and all of a sudden people could slay by messaging through facebook, not just by having to go to a club to meet up

Roids Tats and Tan game starts to gain popularity and suddenly everyone is implementing at least one of the three to try to gain an edge on the competition because suddenly slaying isn't just something that happens here and there thanks to your "chat" when you go out to hit on girls with your mates, but suddenly normies try to ascend to match the slaying results of the naturally goodlooking guys

(Shit like this on tv also had an influence)
View attachment 3210806

I think shit like Geordie Shore actually had a massive impact on ruining club game because people seen these guys slaying from series two onwards after they gained status which caused normies to develop ambitions to slay every night they went out so they looksmaxxed as much as they could to try achieve this but since many other guys were doing it, it only gave them a temporary edge until their competition caught up



In 2012 snapchat, instagram and tinder came out which had a drastic impact on the market

2012 tinder was apparently heaven for slaying if you were in your peak at that time, this wouldve had a drastic impact on the women of that time shifting a portion of the ONS they'd have in durin the course of a year over to tinder and away from clubs
This kind of profile would be Maher tier in 2012-14
View attachment 3210807

This was a GigaChad in early instagram days
View attachment 3210808

I started clubbing in mid 2013 and there was still something good about the energy in clubs, you'd see barely any moggers @forvergymcelling and being a MTN actually got you decent results.
I remember being on a dancefloor with a guy who had a v-neck top and looked like he had 18 months of natty chest gains and a foid came up and started touching his chest and flirting, I was twink mode at the time but in the following months I got natty gains and had pec squeezes from random foids while still having a mediocre natty physique that I just showed off with skin tight shirts.
Some foids were still attention seeking cunts dont get me wrong, but you still felt like you were in with a shot of slaying given that girls would give you a chance but sometimes you wouldnt get over the line

Things began to change during the course of 2014 though and it was like the effects of the things mentioned caused an avalanche coming towards the end of 2014 entering into 2015

2012 was the time when PSL was born and a small amount of people on the internet came to the agreement that behaviour for getting girls through unfamiliar methods (daygame, clubbing) was cope and now looks were all that mattered.

As I mentioned earlier, in the 2000s behaviour and ability to chat a girl up in a club actually would've been a legitimate dating strategy for most men because a MTN was seen as a good catch even in unfamiliar club environment (altho it was still semi familiar in the 2000s because everyone felt like extended family in closer community ethnostate) but in the 2010-14 era, with the economy doing shit, mens main means of outcompeting each other was now their looks and physique.

Obsession with looks theory was born but I will explain later why this belief legitimate for it's time has passed it's sell-by date in it's previous form


2015-2019

This is what I'd describe as the modern era of clubbing where the competition cemented to a point where every guy had a haircut that haloed them (long on top ideal for subpar bones)
Suddenly nobody had pale skin failo or greasy skin as was the case in the 2010s.

Less attractive guys got weeded out way quicker than previous eras when they could still go out and have a decent night with their mates but now it would be impossible for them to cope due to the competition

Roids and Tats probably reached their peak halo during this stage and were heading towards the point of going out of fashion / looking try hard / looking like a caricature who basically dedicated his whole life and image towards trying to impress foids in a nightclub.

View attachment 3210823

Most euro countries are no longer ethnostates so the vibe of venues is ruined by ethnics going to great lengths to try to compete for white women.

White foids use the ethnic's over eagerness to pull to try pitt him against the white man as if to say "look how badly this niglet wants me, if you want to outcompete him you have to step up your desperation levels in your pursuit white man"

This was when I hit my peak slaying days so it was definitely still possible to be a club slayer but I noticed in 2019 in particular, a venue I worked in I seen almost no guys approaching girls at random despite them all being 18-20

When I started clubbing in 2013 it was just a given that when you finally have the chance to approach random girls under the influence of alcohol you turn into a dog off a leash. From what I could see youngcels were high inhib and people just interacted with strangers less.

I'd say in this era girls became more stingy with who they gave out IOIs to, whereas a mogger pre 2014 was getting sexually harassed by girls on a dancefloor.
The rise of "influencer culture" also ruined things since normie foids seen themselves as celebs and took themselves way too seriously and went out solely to get pics which ruins the vibe of venues when theyre full of narcy cunts

Foids were also massive attention whores at this point, maybe a subset always were but at least in the 90s there were girls who went out to meet a partner, in the 2000s there were plenty of girls out to fuck, 2010-14 foids were still kinda going with the flow but standards to fuck were increasing but after the looksmaxxing explosion post 2015 its like girls getting approached by better looking guys didn't cause them to fuck more, it just caused them to get more enjoyment from rejecting because they had more goodlooking guys to reject to fuel their ego.
Rejecting some LTN wouldnt fuel their ego in the same way

Tinder levelled off in this era, not as easy to slay as 2012-13 based on misc stories but a decent looking guy could still do fairly well.
It didnt appear to be getting progressively harder year on year. The algorithm seemed relatively fair.

2020-2024

The most immediate difference I noticed in 2020 was tinder going to shit since more attention seeking foids who never intended on using the app to actually meet began flooding the app and in this year I had 10 planned meetups in a row who all flaked.

I managed 3 tinder meetups across 2021-2022, two of which were meetups in public which led nowhere and one was a straight over to the house slay
DoctorLooksmax mentioned how he was able to get girls straight over to the house to slay in 2020 with shitty pics before he was fully looksmaxxed, yet in 2023 with every aspect of his online dating profiles optimized and being in his most looksmaxxed state he had to slay via dates since he couldn't get girls straight over to the house any more.

The tinder algorithm changed DRASTICALLY from 2018 to 2021 and beyond since I was able to get 100 matches in the first 48 hours after making an account by swiping right on every foid in 2018. By 2021, swiping right on every foid would result in me getting about 5 matches with another 5 hidden and due to limited likes I'd quickly run out of likes and would have to pay to see the hidden profiles who liked me.
Foids standards may have changed but in 2018 I was using a shitty selfie in a dull room with a €2 primark t-shirt as my main pic with my other pics being gymcel mirror selfies and only one NT social pic.
In 2023 I tried to give it everything I could by using an array of NT pics taken post surgery with morphs on top of that, one even had me heightmogging a group of 3 other goodlooking chaps (incelcon pic) and height could now be added to your profile which wasn't the case prior to 2020, yet my results were pathetic by comparison to 2018.

Even Bartek PUA mentioned how his results on hinge used to be really good but he took a break from it for a few months and when he made a new account he said only low quality girls he didnt even want to swipe right on were being shown to him and he assumed that they changed the algo to try force people to pay for the paid version once the app had enough popularity and userbase gained whereas the previous algo gave fair results to get people to use initially

Due to foids sitting at home on their phones all day in 2020, foids standards for face probably skyrocketed thanks to tiktok only showing them countless moggers daily.
By this point foids were completely desensitized to seeing guys with perfect physiques online since they'd been exposed to it on instagram for years now whereas a roidcel physique actually had a great deal of novelty to it in the mid 2010s.
Now its just a case of having something foids have seen (through a screen) 1000x before so it doesn't provide as much novelty as seeing a new mogger face since that's more unique to each person than a roided physique.

Even though roiding and gaining a 10/10 body was seen as a massive halo for a MTN previously, it now seemed as tho the minimum face needed to have casual sex from tinder/clubs raised to HTN meaning that a large portion of guys who could slay through non face related looksmaxxes were now counted out of the game, meaning that the popularity of gymcelling and fitted clothes decreased as focus switched back to face.

Now lets take a look at nightlife.
I went out once in late 2021 by sneaking into a venue without the vax pass having not been in a venue since early 2020
The first thing I noticed was how retarded foids were since there was an outdoor area that was always crammed with random people mingling with each other but on this night all the foids segregated themselves to their own group of tables away from any guys, as if they wanted to make it as easy as possible to reject any guy who would take the blatant move of walking over to approach. I put this down to the venue being full of retarded chav foids when it used to be for normal people but the dogshit atmosphere I noticed that night really seemed to stick in subsequent nights.
I genuinely believe people's behaviour has become fucking retarded after getting the vax or maybe people who didnt get vaxxed dropped out of society and stopped socializing after realizing during the lockdowns how retarded normies are, I would say this was the case for me to a pretty large extent.
The vibe in clubs now is just fucking dead and miserable although it was heading that way year on year since 2013 but I still witnessed a mogger night in 2019 in a 100% white student venue.

I got one slay in a club in 2022 upen my return to clubs and in 2023-2024 post surgery when I went out a lot I had 10 nights out in a row without a slay which wouldve been unthinkable at any previous point in my life since I started college.
You could say I just dont have the appetitie to dumpster dive any more which is true but I was still going for chubsters who used to be easy slays in 2017-19 but now they weren't. I even was denied a slay by having a chubster say I was too goodlooking to approach her so something had to be wrong, whereas I believe the slight underbite I had previously made them more comfortable fucking me since I had a failo which justified me approaching them.

I also encountered foids who said that they go out clubbing solely to be in the company of their friends and said regardless of what level of guy approached them or how attractive they found him, they would not under any circumstances pursue something with a guy from a club because they claim to be only seeking LTR not ONS and also claim that they would never date a guy who they first met in a club even if he wanted to date and go the LTR route.
They compartmentalize a goodlooking, ideal potential BF who they first encounter in a club as a worse prospect than some subhuman they're forced to be around in daily life.

What I said in the 2015-19 era about IOIs being harder to come by also applies to this era to a greater extent, foids just dont care as much when they see a mogger. Like I said the novelty of roidcel halo has wore off and not the novelty of having a mogger face is wearing off as well unless GIGA rare.
Foids just dont want to give men any power today and this is why I say we're in a post mogging era.
Foids are actually more likely to punish a guy who tried to mog and falls short of top mogger than they are to punish a guy who did nothing to improve or compete on mogging.

Women punish you more for trying to compete and falling short of first place than not trying to compete against other men at all

By "trying to compete" I mean trying to be as goodlooking as you can and present yourself as well as you can and mog as many men as you can. I use "first place" vaguely in the sense that if you are the third biggest mogger in a club you can still be perceived as being in first place / top of the...

looksmax.org

Foids are just worn out by casual sex with moggers who wont commit because they're now bombarded with messaging that men hate sluts (thanks to countless podcasts, street interviews etc discussing bodycount) whereas millenial foids for example weren't even aware that being sluts would drastically lower their value or chances of getting married since most men of that era were bluepilled due to the lack of internet/media discussion around bodycounts.

Spoiler

many foids now severely depressed from fucking around

JFL @ this foid, talks about emotional damage of casual sex then says she's not having sex again until she's married

Finds a guy to marry 6 months later

looksmax.org

Rather than foids choosing a happy medium of seeking an LTR with their looksmatch and holding off on moggers unless they show legit LTR interest, they have gone to the extreme of giving casual sex to the top 1% of guys they see on tinder but when it comes to a relationship they want complete security in choosing a guy they think would never leave them.

This is what foids see as the most risk averse strategy and its the strategy most foids are going all-in on post 2020, fuck a 1% guy from online if they feel like fulfilling sexual urges but also not going all in on slutmaxxing like past generations because all girls are mentally damaged before they hit 18 from over-dopamine through social media so they seek an LTR and tend to seek out the biggest subhuman they can find who worships them and they have complete control over and can treat like shit if they please.

@Whatever can vouch for his sister only dating subhumans who no other girl wanted because she was so desperate for control.
The UK PSLers I speak with outside of the forum have also stated how its an "oofy doofy" world now, and every above average girl seems to be dating a below average guy intentionally, whereas before it was a case of most couples being looksmatched and the lower looks level guys genuinely struggling more than average guys.
Now it seems to be the case of average guys who are trying to improve struggling way more than LTNs who are happy to bask in their own subhumanity and not improve in any way and be legit slobs.
I have an extensive post history showing examples of this but typing this thread is just too exhausting to go find them.

The influx of ethnics post 2020 has also been detrimental because now if you go to a venue there might be 40 ethnics in the venue trying to compete while there are next to no ethnic women to balance this out.
Foids also dont want to be outdoors anymore and want to limit their actions with men and strangers to the minimum amount possible due to getting harrassed by ethnics in the daytime the second they are discovered to be alone.
The problem is, with foids now switching to getting with LTNs for LTRs, that means that almost every ethnic is now on the table as a prospect for a white foid since most ethnics fall in the LTN range.
I didn't want to believe it and previously gave foid sentience more credit than it deserves but white foids are legitimately retarded enough to engage in LTRs with LTN ethnics.

@nofap has stated how he's seeing white HTBs with ethnic LTNs constantly.

Just be anything but white theory is legit in 2024

Last Saturday i went out to a restaurant and i saw 3 blonde htb women each eating alone with pan faced asain manlets, one off them had ugly oily spikey hair that reeked. i couldn’t believe my eyes and smoked a pack in the 2,5 hours i was there because of extreme mental stress, I barely ate...

looksmax.org

It's almost as if a foid who's failed at dating (because she fucked a couple of moggers and ruined her ability to pairbond) now sees dating a LTN ethnic as the safe bet to have a couple of kids and also a way to get back at the white moggers who didnt commit
They can also get with ethnics due to taking pity on them but also due to them being more primitive and low inhib than the native men because they have far less to lose since they're at the bottom of the hierarchy by default.
Foids will never take pity on a MTN-HTN white guy regardless of how much effort he is making to make a good life for himself but hasnt quite hit his stride yet.

Also I have a theory that foids are just willing to fuck the invading group regardless of whether they mog the natives or are subhuman compared to the natives, regardless of whether they're invading by invite and stepping off a plane or invading by brute force, foids dont distinguish one as requiring strength and one as being meaningless, they simply see someone of a different race walking around and subconsiously think that he must have a great level of status if he can just walk around freely without being killed by the majority, he must be the one who's ruling the native masses.


TO SUMMARIZE:
I wish it was still a case of mogger looks being the single most important thing in dating as was the case from 2010-2019, but the fact is that it was just a brief window in time.
Are Looks still the most important thing? Yes but not for the reason you think, LTN/Subhuman looks are actually a benefit over being MTN for finding a relationship, so looks are still the determining factor, but its no longer a case of more looks = more relationship success.

Pre 2010 Looks didnt really matter to a huge degree because so few guys stood out for their looks (since almost nobody was looksmaxxed) and relying on chat/charisma and the fact you were good financially in an ethnostate was enough to attract most girls as a MTN.

From 2010-2019, the economy got worse and men tried to outcompete each other by increasing their looks because women gave their pussy to the highest looks bidder when a roidcel body or HTN face still had extreme novelty but was decreasing in value year on year.
This is when PSL was born and the blackpill made sense at the time given the dating market and explosion of online dating and tinder experiments showing difference in treatment of Chad v normie online.

From 2020-2024, many whites are in a position of hopelessness financially and hopelessness in terms of having a family since they wont own a home.
All looksmaxxing has more or less been tapped out and men look as good as they're ever going to look.
The bidding for females vaginas isn't going to get much higher and foids have casual sex fatigue and the novelty of seeing counless moggers online has worn off and this punished all decent looking guys irl as a result.
Foids have made the mental switch to wanting a relationship but since they associate everything to do with a white man trying to enhance his lot in life as negative/wannabe mogger, they've switched to almost exclusively dating LTN/Subhuman whites or LTN/Subhuman ethnics.
Ethnic influx is stacking the odds even more against MTN white

This forum was created in 2019 in the final remnants of the looks theory era, dating has changed but the people on here are still parroting shit that applied the most in the mid 2010s, the world has moved on.
I discovered the importance of having mogger looks for success in the dating market of the time before most of you knew what a forum was and while everyone except for a few thousand men worldwide was stuck between the blue and red pill.
Now I am telling you that the blackpill is finished and no longer applies the same way it used to, I lived through to peak "blackpill" era and now I am seeing it's demise due to socieconomic factors and changes in foid behaviour, I am always ahead of the curve and waiting for others to catch up on these things
@Clavicular

Cuz they not willing to accept

 

[italianmaxxer]

r being MTN for

1990s
Intentionally going out to a nightlife venue to meet someone to settle down with was seen as a normal activity and things like matchmaking festivals were commonplace and not seen as desperate.

For anyone who didn't meet a partner through social circle, bars/venues were seen as a place to go to actively try to meet someone to settle down with so most people in the venues were there for a specific goal if they were single.
I'll outline how this changes later

2000-2009:
Possibly the Golden era for club slaying because seeking relationships were no longer the primary focus of dating and all voluntary M/F interactions

People born in the 1980s (millenials) were probably the most liberally brainwashed group the world has seen while also being the least focused on settling down and had the least knowledge on the impact caused to society down the line by throwing off the shackles of religion and conservatism and sleeping without a care and not worrying about seeking marriage or kids until you reach 30.

Most euro countries were still ethnostates so there was still the idea that the 50th percentile native man was a good catch and with the economy in a good position, the average white was a good LTR prospect in terms of what he could provide.

MTNs were effectively seen as the attractive looks level with legitimately good looking guys standing out and cleaning up but once the 2 or 3 goodlooking guys in the venue had a girl to leave the club with, the 40 foids remaining in the club who went out to the venue that night with the intention of fucking had to choose between MTNs

View attachment 3210815

The extent of media in this time was text messaging and digital cameras with no NTs having heard about online dating

Clubs were fun af and less serious without everyone being self obsessed and trying to mog and analyze their competition



2010-2014:

This is when shows highlighting the british club slaying culture on party islands started to take off

Spoiler

Social Media exploded and all of a sudden people could slay by messaging through facebook, not just by having to go to a club to meet up

Roids Tats and Tan game starts to gain popularity and suddenly everyone is implementing at least one of the three to try to gain an edge on the competition because suddenly slaying isn't just something that happens here and there thanks to your "chat" when you go out to hit on girls with your mates, but suddenly normies try to ascend to match the slaying results of the naturally goodlooking guys

(Shit like this on tv also had an influence)
View attachment 3210806

I think shit like Geordie Shore actually had a massive impact on ruining club game because people seen these guys slaying from series two onwards after they gained status which caused normies to develop ambitions to slay every night they went out so they looksmaxxed as much as they could to try achieve this but since many other guys were doing it, it only gave them a temporary edge until their competition caught up



In 2012 snapchat, instagram and tinder came out which had a drastic impact on the market

2012 tinder was apparently heaven for slaying if you were in your peak at that time, this wouldve had a drastic impact on the women of that time shifting a portion of the ONS they'd have in durin the course of a year over to tinder and away from clubs
This kind of profile would be Maher tier in 2012-14
View attachment 3210807

This was a GigaChad in early instagram days
View attachment 3210808

I started clubbing in mid 2013 and there was still something good about the energy in clubs, you'd see barely any moggers @forvergymcelling and being a MTN actually got you decent results.
I remember being on a dancefloor with a guy who had a v-neck top and looked like he had 18 months of natty chest gains and a foid came up and started touching his chest and flirting, I was twink mode at the time but in the following months I got natty gains and had pec squeezes from random foids while still having a mediocre natty physique that I just showed off with skin tight shirts.
Some foids were still attention seeking cunts dont get me wrong, but you still felt like you were in with a shot of slaying given that girls would give you a chance but sometimes you wouldnt get over the line

Things began to change during the course of 2014 though and it was like the effects of the things mentioned caused an avalanche coming towards the end of 2014 entering into 2015

2012 was the time when PSL was born and a small amount of people on the internet came to the agreement that behaviour for getting girls through unfamiliar methods (daygame, clubbing) was cope and now looks were all that mattered.

As I mentioned earlier, in the 2000s behaviour and ability to chat a girl up in a club actually would've been a legitimate dating strategy for most men because a MTN was seen as a good catch even in unfamiliar club environment (altho it was still semi familiar in the 2000s because everyone felt like extended family in closer community ethnostate) but in the 2010-14 era, with the economy doing shit, mens main means of outcompeting each other was now their looks and physique.

Obsession with looks theory was born but I will explain later why this belief legitimate for it's time has passed it's sell-by date in it's previous form


2015-2019

This is what I'd describe as the modern era of clubbing where the competition cemented to a point where every guy had a haircut that haloed them (long on top ideal for subpar bones)
Suddenly nobody had pale skin failo or greasy skin as was the case in the 2010s.

Less attractive guys got weeded out way quicker than previous eras when they could still go out and have a decent night with their mates but now it would be impossible for them to cope due to the competition

Roids and Tats probably reached their peak halo during this stage and were heading towards the point of going out of fashion / looking try hard / looking like a caricature who basically dedicated his whole life and image towards trying to impress foids in a nightclub.

View attachment 3210823

Most euro countries are no longer ethnostates so the vibe of venues is ruined by ethnics going to great lengths to try to compete for white women.

White foids use the ethnic's over eagerness to pull to try pitt him against the white man as if to say "look how badly this niglet wants me, if you want to outcompete him you have to step up your desperation levels in your pursuit white man"

This was when I hit my peak slaying days so it was definitely still possible to be a club slayer but I noticed in 2019 in particular, a venue I worked in I seen almost no guys approaching girls at random despite them all being 18-20

When I started clubbing in 2013 it was just a given that when you finally have the chance to approach random girls under the influence of alcohol you turn into a dog off a leash. From what I could see youngcels were high inhib and people just interacted with strangers less.

I'd say in this era girls became more stingy with who they gave out IOIs to, whereas a mogger pre 2014 was getting sexually harassed by girls on a dancefloor.
The rise of "influencer culture" also ruined things since normie foids seen themselves as celebs and took themselves way too seriously and went out solely to get pics which ruins the vibe of venues when theyre full of narcy cunts

Foids were also massive attention whores at this point, maybe a subset always were but at least in the 90s there were girls who went out to meet a partner, in the 2000s there were plenty of girls out to fuck, 2010-14 foids were still kinda going with the flow but standards to fuck were increasing but after the looksmaxxing explosion post 2015 its like girls getting approached by better looking guys didn't cause them to fuck more, it just caused them to get more enjoyment from rejecting because they had more goodlooking guys to reject to fuel their ego.
Rejecting some LTN wouldnt fuel their ego in the same way

Tinder levelled off in this era, not as easy to slay as 2012-13 based on misc stories but a decent looking guy could still do fairly well.
It didnt appear to be getting progressively harder year on year. The algorithm seemed relatively fair.

2020-2024

The most immediate difference I noticed in 2020 was tinder going to shit since more attention seeking foids who never intended on using the app to actually meet began flooding the app and in this year I had 10 planned meetups in a row who all flaked.

I managed 3 tinder meetups across 2021-2022, two of which were meetups in public which led nowhere and one was a straight over to the house slay
DoctorLooksmax mentioned how he was able to get girls straight over to the house to slay in 2020 with shitty pics before he was fully looksmaxxed, yet in 2023 with every aspect of his online dating profiles optimized and being in his most looksmaxxed state he had to slay via dates since he couldn't get girls straight over to the house any more.

The tinder algorithm changed DRASTICALLY from 2018 to 2021 and beyond since I was able to get 100 matches in the first 48 hours after making an account by swiping right on every foid in 2018. By 2021, swiping right on every foid would result in me getting about 5 matches with another 5 hidden and due to limited likes I'd quickly run out of likes and would have to pay to see the hidden profiles who liked me.
Foids standards may have changed but in 2018 I was using a shitty selfie in a dull room with a €2 primark t-shirt as my main pic with my other pics being gymcel mirror selfies and only one NT social pic.
In 2023 I tried to give it everything I could by using an array of NT pics taken post surgery with morphs on top of that, one even had me heightmogging a group of 3 other goodlooking chaps (incelcon pic) and height could now be added to your profile which wasn't the case prior to 2020, yet my results were pathetic by comparison to 2018.

Even Bartek PUA mentioned how his results on hinge used to be really good but he took a break from it for a few months and when he made a new account he said only low quality girls he didnt even want to swipe right on were being shown to him and he assumed that they changed the algo to try force people to pay for the paid version once the app had enough popularity and userbase gained whereas the previous algo gave fair results to get people to use initially

Due to foids sitting at home on their phones all day in 2020, foids standards for face probably skyrocketed thanks to tiktok only showing them countless moggers daily.
By this point foids were completely desensitized to seeing guys with perfect physiques online since they'd been exposed to it on instagram for years now whereas a roidcel physique actually had a great deal of novelty to it in the mid 2010s.
Now its just a case of having something foids have seen (through a screen) 1000x before so it doesn't provide as much novelty as seeing a new mogger face since that's more unique to each person than a roided physique.

Even though roiding and gaining a 10/10 body was seen as a massive halo for a MTN previously, it now seemed as tho the minimum face needed to have casual sex from tinder/clubs raised to HTN meaning that a large portion of guys who could slay through non face related looksmaxxes were now counted out of the game, meaning that the popularity of gymcelling and fitted clothes decreased as focus switched back to face.

Now lets take a look at nightlife.
I went out once in late 2021 by sneaking into a venue without the vax pass having not been in a venue since early 2020
The first thing I noticed was how retarded foids were since there was an outdoor area that was always crammed with random people mingling with each other but on this night all the foids segregated themselves to their own group of tables away from any guys, as if they wanted to make it as easy as possible to reject any guy who would take the blatant move of walking over to approach. I put this down to the venue being full of retarded chav foids when it used to be for normal people but the dogshit atmosphere I noticed that night really seemed to stick in subsequent nights.
I genuinely believe people's behaviour has become fucking retarded after getting the vax or maybe people who didnt get vaxxed dropped out of society and stopped socializing after realizing during the lockdowns how retarded normies are, I would say this was the case for me to a pretty large extent.
The vibe in clubs now is just fucking dead and miserable although it was heading that way year on year since 2013 but I still witnessed a mogger night in 2019 in a 100% white student venue.

I got one slay in a club in 2022 upen my return to clubs and in 2023-2024 post surgery when I went out a lot I had 10 nights out in a row without a slay which wouldve been unthinkable at any previous point in my life since I started college.
You could say I just dont have the appetitie to dumpster dive any more which is true but I was still going for chubsters who used to be easy slays in 2017-19 but now they weren't. I even was denied a slay by having a chubster say I was too goodlooking to approach her so something had to be wrong, whereas I believe the slight underbite I had previously made them more comfortable fucking me since I had a failo which justified me approaching them.

I also encountered foids who said that they go out clubbing solely to be in the company of their friends and said regardless of what level of guy approached them or how attractive they found him, they would not under any circumstances pursue something with a guy from a club because they claim to be only seeking LTR not ONS and also claim that they would never date a guy who they first met in a club even if he wanted to date and go the LTR route.
They compartmentalize a goodlooking, ideal potential BF who they first encounter in a club as a worse prospect than some subhuman they're forced to be around in daily life.

What I said in the 2015-19 era about IOIs being harder to come by also applies to this era to a greater extent, foids just dont care as much when they see a mogger. Like I said the novelty of roidcel halo has wore off and not the novelty of having a mogger face is wearing off as well unless GIGA rare.
Foids just dont want to give men any power today and this is why I say we're in a post mogging era.
Foids are actually more likely to punish a guy who tried to mog and falls short of top mogger than they are to punish a guy who did nothing to improve or compete on mogging.

Women punish you more for trying to compete and falling short of first place than not trying to compete against other men at all

By "trying to compete" I mean trying to be as goodlooking as you can and present yourself as well as you can and mog as many men as you can. I use "first place" vaguely in the sense that if you are the third biggest mogger in a club you can still be perceived as being in first place / top of the...

looksmax.org

Foids are just worn out by casual sex with moggers who wont commit because they're now bombarded with messaging that men hate sluts (thanks to countless podcasts, street interviews etc discussing bodycount) whereas millenial foids for example weren't even aware that being sluts would drastically lower their value or chances of getting married since most men of that era were bluepilled due to the lack of internet/media discussion around bodycounts.

Spoiler

many foids now severely depressed from fucking around

JFL @ this foid, talks about emotional damage of casual sex then says she's not having sex again until she's married

Finds a guy to marry 6 months later

looksmax.org

Rather than foids choosing a happy medium of seeking an LTR with their looksmatch and holding off on moggers unless they show legit LTR interest, they have gone to the extreme of giving casual sex to the top 1% of guys they see on tinder but when it comes to a relationship they want complete security in choosing a guy they think would never leave them.

This is what foids see as the most risk averse strategy and its the strategy most foids are going all-in on post 2020, fuck a 1% guy from online if they feel like fulfilling sexual urges but also not going all in on slutmaxxing like past generations because all girls are mentally damaged before they hit 18 from over-dopamine through social media so they seek an LTR and tend to seek out the biggest subhuman they can find who worships them and they have complete control over and can treat like shit if they please.

@Whatever can vouch for his sister only dating subhumans who no other girl wanted because she was so desperate for control.
The UK PSLers I speak with outside of the forum have also stated how its an "oofy doofy" world now, and every above average girl seems to be dating a below average guy intentionally, whereas before it was a case of most couples being looksmatched and the lower looks level guys genuinely struggling more than average guys.
Now it seems to be the case of average guys who are trying to improve struggling way more than LTNs who are happy to bask in their own subhumanity and not improve in any way and be legit slobs.
I have an extensive post history showing examples of this but typing this thread is just too exhausting to go find them.

The influx of ethnics post 2020 has also been detrimental because now if you go to a venue there might be 40 ethnics in the venue trying to compete while there are next to no ethnic women to balance this out.
Foids also dont want to be outdoors anymore and want to limit their actions with men and strangers to the minimum amount possible due to getting harrassed by ethnics in the daytime the second they are discovered to be alone.
The problem is, with foids now switching to getting with LTNs for LTRs, that means that almost every ethnic is now on the table as a prospect for a white foid since most ethnics fall in the LTN range.
I didn't want to believe it and previously gave foid sentience more credit than it deserves but white foids are legitimately retarded enough to engage in LTRs with LTN ethnics.

@nofap has stated how he's seeing white HTBs with ethnic LTNs constantly.

Just be anything but white theory is legit in 2024

Last Saturday i went out to a restaurant and i saw 3 blonde htb women each eating alone with pan faced asain manlets, one off them had ugly oily spikey hair that reeked. i couldn’t believe my eyes and smoked a pack in the 2,5 hours i was there because of extreme mental stress, I barely ate...

looksmax.org

It's almost as if a foid who's failed at dating (because she fucked a couple of moggers and ruined her ability to pairbond) now sees dating a LTN ethnic as the safe bet to have a couple of kids and also a way to get back at the white moggers who didnt commit
They can also get with ethnics due to taking pity on them but also due to them being more primitive and low inhib than the native men because they have far less to lose since they're at the bottom of the hierarchy by default.
Foids will never take pity on a MTN-HTN white guy regardless of how much effort he is making to make a good life for himself but hasnt quite hit his stride yet.

Also I have a theory that foids are just willing to fuck the invading group regardless of whether they mog the natives or are subhuman compared to the natives, regardless of whether they're invading by invite and stepping off a plane or invading by brute force, foids dont distinguish one as requiring strength and one as being meaningless, they simply see someone of a different race walking around and subconsiously think that he must have a great level of status if he can just walk around freely without being killed by the majority, he must be the one who's ruling the native masses.


TO SUMMARIZE:
I wish it was still a case of mogger looks being the single most important thing in dating as was the case from 2010-2019, but the fact is that it was just a brief window in time.
Are Looks still the most important thing? Yes but not for the reason you think, LTN/Subhuman looks are actually a benefit over being MTN for finding a relationship, so looks are still the determining factor, but its no longer a case of more looks = more relationship success.

Pre 2010 Looks didnt really matter to a huge degree because so few guys stood out for their looks (since almost nobody was looksmaxxed) and relying on chat/charisma and the fact you were good financially in an ethnostate was enough to attract most girls as a MTN.

From 2010-2019, the economy got worse and men tried to outcompete each other by increasing their looks because women gave their pussy to the highest looks bidder when a roidcel body or HTN face still had extreme novelty but was decreasing in value year on year.
This is when PSL was born and the blackpill made sense at the time given the dating market and explosion of online dating and tinder experiments showing difference in treatment of Chad v normie online.

From 2020-2024, many whites are in a position of hopelessness financially and hopelessness in terms of having a family since they wont own a home.
All looksmaxxing has more or less been tapped out and men look as good as they're ever going to look.
The bidding for females vaginas isn't going to get much higher and foids have casual sex fatigue and the novelty of seeing counless moggers online has worn off and this punished all decent looking guys irl as a result.
Foids have made the mental switch to wanting a relationship but since they associate everything to do with a white man trying to enhance his lot in life as negative/wannabe mogger, they've switched to almost exclusively dating LTN/Subhuman whites or LTN/Subhuman ethnics.
Ethnic influx is stacking the odds even more against MTN white

This forum was created in 2019 in the final remnants of the looks theory era, dating has changed but the people on here are still parroting shit that applied the most in the mid 2010s, the world has moved on.
I discovered the importance of having mogger looks for success in the dating market of the time before most of you knew what a forum was and while everyone except for a few thousand men worldwide was stuck between the blue and red pill.
Now I am telling you that the blackpill is finished and no longer applies the same way it used to, I lived through to peak "blackpill" era and now I am seeing it's demise due to socieconomic factors and changes in foid behaviour, I am always ahead of the curve and waiting for others to catch up on these things
@Clavicular

i will always prefer to be a better looking version of myself i dont care if subhuman is doing better than me, its not only about women, its also about self respect, and knowing that you are doing your best, being a subhuman in a LTR is one of the most brutal, things you can do

 

[AustrianMogger]

Speaks about the former popularity of nightclubs and why they're on the decline

not real

 

[TheBrownOne]

I mean moggers still get harassed by women on the street
At least when I went to a big club in NY with my friend he was getting his arm touched and women calling him daddy openly while we were just walking past them
But he's like 6'4ish and GL so he stands out.
Plus we were kinda in the ghetto cuz that's where all the good clubs at and I don't think crazy stacys did anything like that

 

[chriswalkerthegoat]

1990s
Intentionally going out to a nightlife venue to meet someone to settle down with was seen as a normal activity and things like matchmaking festivals were commonplace and not seen as desperate.

For anyone who didn't meet a partner through social circle, bars/venues were seen as a place to go to actively try to meet someone to settle down with so most people in the venues were there for a specific goal if they were single.
I'll outline how this changes later

2000-2009:
Possibly the Golden era for club slaying because seeking relationships were no longer the primary focus of dating and all voluntary M/F interactions

People born in the 1980s (millenials) were probably the most liberally brainwashed group the world has seen while also being the least focused on settling down and had the least knowledge on the impact caused to society down the line by throwing off the shackles of religion and conservatism and sleeping without a care and not worrying about seeking marriage or kids until you reach 30.

Most euro countries were still ethnostates so there was still the idea that the 50th percentile native man was a good catch and with the economy in a good position, the average white was a good LTR prospect in terms of what he could provide.

MTNs were effectively seen as the attractive looks level with legitimately good looking guys standing out and cleaning up but once the 2 or 3 goodlooking guys in the venue had a girl to leave the club with, the 40 foids remaining in the club who went out to the venue that night with the intention of fucking had to choose between MTNs

View attachment 3210815

The extent of media in this time was text messaging and digital cameras with no NTs having heard about online dating

Clubs were fun af and less serious without everyone being self obsessed and trying to mog and analyze their competition



2010-2014:

This is when shows highlighting the british club slaying culture on party islands started to take off

Spoiler

Social Media exploded and all of a sudden people could slay by messaging through facebook, not just by having to go to a club to meet up

Roids Tats and Tan game starts to gain popularity and suddenly everyone is implementing at least one of the three to try to gain an edge on the competition because suddenly slaying isn't just something that happens here and there thanks to your "chat" when you go out to hit on girls with your mates, but suddenly normies try to ascend to match the slaying results of the naturally goodlooking guys

(Shit like this on tv also had an influence)
View attachment 3210806

I think shit like Geordie Shore actually had a massive impact on ruining club game because people seen these guys slaying from series two onwards after they gained status which caused normies to develop ambitions to slay every night they went out so they looksmaxxed as much as they could to try achieve this but since many other guys were doing it, it only gave them a temporary edge until their competition caught up



In 2012 snapchat, instagram and tinder came out which had a drastic impact on the market

2012 tinder was apparently heaven for slaying if you were in your peak at that time, this wouldve had a drastic impact on the women of that time shifting a portion of the ONS they'd have in durin the course of a year over to tinder and away from clubs
This kind of profile would be Maher tier in 2012-14
View attachment 3210807

This was a GigaChad in early instagram days
View attachment 3210808

I started clubbing in mid 2013 and there was still something good about the energy in clubs, you'd see barely any moggers @forvergymcelling and being a MTN actually got you decent results.
I remember being on a dancefloor with a guy who had a v-neck top and looked like he had 18 months of natty chest gains and a foid came up and started touching his chest and flirting, I was twink mode at the time but in the following months I got natty gains and had pec squeezes from random foids while still having a mediocre natty physique that I just showed off with skin tight shirts.
Some foids were still attention seeking cunts dont get me wrong, but you still felt like you were in with a shot of slaying given that girls would give you a chance but sometimes you wouldnt get over the line

Things began to change during the course of 2014 though and it was like the effects of the things mentioned caused an avalanche coming towards the end of 2014 entering into 2015

2012 was the time when PSL was born and a small amount of people on the internet came to the agreement that behaviour for getting girls through unfamiliar methods (daygame, clubbing) was cope and now looks were all that mattered.

As I mentioned earlier, in the 2000s behaviour and ability to chat a girl up in a club actually would've been a legitimate dating strategy for most men because a MTN was seen as a good catch even in unfamiliar club environment (altho it was still semi familiar in the 2000s because everyone felt like extended family in closer community ethnostate) but in the 2010-14 era, with the economy doing shit, mens main means of outcompeting each other was now their looks and physique.

Obsession with looks theory was born but I will explain later why this belief legitimate for it's time has passed it's sell-by date in it's previous form


2015-2019

This is what I'd describe as the modern era of clubbing where the competition cemented to a point where every guy had a haircut that haloed them (long on top ideal for subpar bones)
Suddenly nobody had pale skin failo or greasy skin as was the case in the 2010s.

Less attractive guys got weeded out way quicker than previous eras when they could still go out and have a decent night with their mates but now it would be impossible for them to cope due to the competition

Roids and Tats probably reached their peak halo during this stage and were heading towards the point of going out of fashion / looking try hard / looking like a caricature who basically dedicated his whole life and image towards trying to impress foids in a nightclub.

View attachment 3210823

Most euro countries are no longer ethnostates so the vibe of venues is ruined by ethnics going to great lengths to try to compete for white women.

White foids use the ethnic's over eagerness to pull to try pitt him against the white man as if to say "look how badly this niglet wants me, if you want to outcompete him you have to step up your desperation levels in your pursuit white man"

This was when I hit my peak slaying days so it was definitely still possible to be a club slayer but I noticed in 2019 in particular, a venue I worked in I seen almost no guys approaching girls at random despite them all being 18-20

When I started clubbing in 2013 it was just a given that when you finally have the chance to approach random girls under the influence of alcohol you turn into a dog off a leash. From what I could see youngcels were high inhib and people just interacted with strangers less.

I'd say in this era girls became more stingy with who they gave out IOIs to, whereas a mogger pre 2014 was getting sexually harassed by girls on a dancefloor.
The rise of "influencer culture" also ruined things since normie foids seen themselves as celebs and took themselves way too seriously and went out solely to get pics which ruins the vibe of venues when theyre full of narcy cunts

Foids were also massive attention whores at this point, maybe a subset always were but at least in the 90s there were girls who went out to meet a partner, in the 2000s there were plenty of girls out to fuck, 2010-14 foids were still kinda going with the flow but standards to fuck were increasing but after the looksmaxxing explosion post 2015 its like girls getting approached by better looking guys didn't cause them to fuck more, it just caused them to get more enjoyment from rejecting because they had more goodlooking guys to reject to fuel their ego.
Rejecting some LTN wouldnt fuel their ego in the same way

Tinder levelled off in this era, not as easy to slay as 2012-13 based on misc stories but a decent looking guy could still do fairly well.
It didnt appear to be getting progressively harder year on year. The algorithm seemed relatively fair.

2020-2024

The most immediate difference I noticed in 2020 was tinder going to shit since more attention seeking foids who never intended on using the app to actually meet began flooding the app and in this year I had 10 planned meetups in a row who all flaked.

I managed 3 tinder meetups across 2021-2022, two of which were meetups in public which led nowhere and one was a straight over to the house slay
DoctorLooksmax mentioned how he was able to get girls straight over to the house to slay in 2020 with shitty pics before he was fully looksmaxxed, yet in 2023 with every aspect of his online dating profiles optimized and being in his most looksmaxxed state he had to slay via dates since he couldn't get girls straight over to the house any more.

The tinder algorithm changed DRASTICALLY from 2018 to 2021 and beyond since I was able to get 100 matches in the first 48 hours after making an account by swiping right on every foid in 2018. By 2021, swiping right on every foid would result in me getting about 5 matches with another 5 hidden and due to limited likes I'd quickly run out of likes and would have to pay to see the hidden profiles who liked me.
Foids standards may have changed but in 2018 I was using a shitty selfie in a dull room with a €2 primark t-shirt as my main pic with my other pics being gymcel mirror selfies and only one NT social pic.
In 2023 I tried to give it everything I could by using an array of NT pics taken post surgery with morphs on top of that, one even had me heightmogging a group of 3 other goodlooking chaps (incelcon pic) and height could now be added to your profile which wasn't the case prior to 2020, yet my results were pathetic by comparison to 2018.

Even Bartek PUA mentioned how his results on hinge used to be really good but he took a break from it for a few months and when he made a new account he said only low quality girls he didnt even want to swipe right on were being shown to him and he assumed that they changed the algo to try force people to pay for the paid version once the app had enough popularity and userbase gained whereas the previous algo gave fair results to get people to use initially

Due to foids sitting at home on their phones all day in 2020, foids standards for face probably skyrocketed thanks to tiktok only showing them countless moggers daily.
By this point foids were completely desensitized to seeing guys with perfect physiques online since they'd been exposed to it on instagram for years now whereas a roidcel physique actually had a great deal of novelty to it in the mid 2010s.
Now its just a case of having something foids have seen (through a screen) 1000x before so it doesn't provide as much novelty as seeing a new mogger face since that's more unique to each person than a roided physique.

Even though roiding and gaining a 10/10 body was seen as a massive halo for a MTN previously, it now seemed as tho the minimum face needed to have casual sex from tinder/clubs raised to HTN meaning that a large portion of guys who could slay through non face related looksmaxxes were now counted out of the game, meaning that the popularity of gymcelling and fitted clothes decreased as focus switched back to face.

Now lets take a look at nightlife.
I went out once in late 2021 by sneaking into a venue without the vax pass having not been in a venue since early 2020
The first thing I noticed was how retarded foids were since there was an outdoor area that was always crammed with random people mingling with each other but on this night all the foids segregated themselves to their own group of tables away from any guys, as if they wanted to make it as easy as possible to reject any guy who would take the blatant move of walking over to approach. I put this down to the venue being full of retarded chav foids when it used to be for normal people but the dogshit atmosphere I noticed that night really seemed to stick in subsequent nights.
I genuinely believe people's behaviour has become fucking retarded after getting the vax or maybe people who didnt get vaxxed dropped out of society and stopped socializing after realizing during the lockdowns how retarded normies are, I would say this was the case for me to a pretty large extent.
The vibe in clubs now is just fucking dead and miserable although it was heading that way year on year since 2013 but I still witnessed a mogger night in 2019 in a 100% white student venue.

I got one slay in a club in 2022 upen my return to clubs and in 2023-2024 post surgery when I went out a lot I had 10 nights out in a row without a slay which wouldve been unthinkable at any previous point in my life since I started college.
You could say I just dont have the appetitie to dumpster dive any more which is true but I was still going for chubsters who used to be easy slays in 2017-19 but now they weren't. I even was denied a slay by having a chubster say I was too goodlooking to approach her so something had to be wrong, whereas I believe the slight underbite I had previously made them more comfortable fucking me since I had a failo which justified me approaching them.

I also encountered foids who said that they go out clubbing solely to be in the company of their friends and said regardless of what level of guy approached them or how attractive they found him, they would not under any circumstances pursue something with a guy from a club because they claim to be only seeking LTR not ONS and also claim that they would never date a guy who they first met in a club even if he wanted to date and go the LTR route.
They compartmentalize a goodlooking, ideal potential BF who they first encounter in a club as a worse prospect than some subhuman they're forced to be around in daily life.

What I said in the 2015-19 era about IOIs being harder to come by also applies to this era to a greater extent, foids just dont care as much when they see a mogger. Like I said the novelty of roidcel halo has wore off and not the novelty of having a mogger face is wearing off as well unless GIGA rare.
Foids just dont want to give men any power today and this is why I say we're in a post mogging era.
Foids are actually more likely to punish a guy who tried to mog and falls short of top mogger than they are to punish a guy who did nothing to improve or compete on mogging.

Women punish you more for trying to compete and falling short of first place than not trying to compete against other men at all

By "trying to compete" I mean trying to be as goodlooking as you can and present yourself as well as you can and mog as many men as you can. I use "first place" vaguely in the sense that if you are the third biggest mogger in a club you can still be perceived as being in first place / top of the...

looksmax.org

Foids are just worn out by casual sex with moggers who wont commit because they're now bombarded with messaging that men hate sluts (thanks to countless podcasts, street interviews etc discussing bodycount) whereas millenial foids for example weren't even aware that being sluts would drastically lower their value or chances of getting married since most men of that era were bluepilled due to the lack of internet/media discussion around bodycounts.

Spoiler

many foids now severely depressed from fucking around

JFL @ this foid, talks about emotional damage of casual sex then says she's not having sex again until she's married

Finds a guy to marry 6 months later

looksmax.org

Rather than foids choosing a happy medium of seeking an LTR with their looksmatch and holding off on moggers unless they show legit LTR interest, they have gone to the extreme of giving casual sex to the top 1% of guys they see on tinder but when it comes to a relationship they want complete security in choosing a guy they think would never leave them.

This is what foids see as the most risk averse strategy and its the strategy most foids are going all-in on post 2020, fuck a 1% guy from online if they feel like fulfilling sexual urges but also not going all in on slutmaxxing like past generations because all girls are mentally damaged before they hit 18 from over-dopamine through social media so they seek an LTR and tend to seek out the biggest subhuman they can find who worships them and they have complete control over and can treat like shit if they please.

@Whatever can vouch for his sister only dating subhumans who no other girl wanted because she was so desperate for control.
The UK PSLers I speak with outside of the forum have also stated how its an "oofy doofy" world now, and every above average girl seems to be dating a below average guy intentionally, whereas before it was a case of most couples being looksmatched and the lower looks level guys genuinely struggling more than average guys.
Now it seems to be the case of average guys who are trying to improve struggling way more than LTNs who are happy to bask in their own subhumanity and not improve in any way and be legit slobs.
I have an extensive post history showing examples of this but typing this thread is just too exhausting to go find them.

The influx of ethnics post 2020 has also been detrimental because now if you go to a venue there might be 40 ethnics in the venue trying to compete while there are next to no ethnic women to balance this out.
Foids also dont want to be outdoors anymore and want to limit their actions with men and strangers to the minimum amount possible due to getting harrassed by ethnics in the daytime the second they are discovered to be alone.
The problem is, with foids now switching to getting with LTNs for LTRs, that means that almost every ethnic is now on the table as a prospect for a white foid since most ethnics fall in the LTN range.
I didn't want to believe it and previously gave foid sentience more credit than it deserves but white foids are legitimately retarded enough to engage in LTRs with LTN ethnics.

@nofap has stated how he's seeing white HTBs with ethnic LTNs constantly.

Just be anything but white theory is legit in 2024

Last Saturday i went out to a restaurant and i saw 3 blonde htb women each eating alone with pan faced asain manlets, one off them had ugly oily spikey hair that reeked. i couldn’t believe my eyes and smoked a pack in the 2,5 hours i was there because of extreme mental stress, I barely ate...

looksmax.org

It's almost as if a foid who's failed at dating (because she fucked a couple of moggers and ruined her ability to pairbond) now sees dating a LTN ethnic as the safe bet to have a couple of kids and also a way to get back at the white moggers who didnt commit
They can also get with ethnics due to taking pity on them but also due to them being more primitive and low inhib than the native men because they have far less to lose since they're at the bottom of the hierarchy by default.
Foids will never take pity on a MTN-HTN white guy regardless of how much effort he is making to make a good life for himself but hasnt quite hit his stride yet.

Also I have a theory that foids are just willing to fuck the invading group regardless of whether they mog the natives or are subhuman compared to the natives, regardless of whether they're invading by invite and stepping off a plane or invading by brute force, foids dont distinguish one as requiring strength and one as being meaningless, they simply see someone of a different race walking around and subconsiously think that he must have a great level of status if he can just walk around freely without being killed by the majority, he must be the one who's ruling the native masses.


TO SUMMARIZE:
I wish it was still a case of mogger looks being the single most important thing in dating as was the case from 2010-2019, but the fact is that it was just a brief window in time.
Are Looks still the most important thing? Yes but not for the reason you think, LTN/Subhuman looks are actually a benefit over being MTN for finding a relationship, so looks are still the determining factor, but its no longer a case of more looks = more relationship success.

Pre 2010 Looks didnt really matter to a huge degree because so few guys stood out for their looks (since almost nobody was looksmaxxed) and relying on chat/charisma and the fact you were good financially in an ethnostate was enough to attract most girls as a MTN.

From 2010-2019, the economy got worse and men tried to outcompete each other by increasing their looks because women gave their pussy to the highest looks bidder when a roidcel body or HTN face still had extreme novelty but was decreasing in value year on year.
This is when PSL was born and the blackpill made sense at the time given the dating market and explosion of online dating and tinder experiments showing difference in treatment of Chad v normie online.

From 2020-2024, many whites are in a position of hopelessness financially and hopelessness in terms of having a family since they wont own a home.
All looksmaxxing has more or less been tapped out and men look as good as they're ever going to look.
The bidding for females vaginas isn't going to get much higher and foids have casual sex fatigue and the novelty of seeing counless moggers online has worn off and this punished all decent looking guys irl as a result.
Foids have made the mental switch to wanting a relationship but since they associate everything to do with a white man trying to enhance his lot in life as negative/wannabe mogger, they've switched to almost exclusively dating LTN/Subhuman whites or LTN/Subhuman ethnics.
Ethnic influx is stacking the odds even more against MTN white

This forum was created in 2019 in the final remnants of the looks theory era, dating has changed but the people on here are still parroting shit that applied the most in the mid 2010s, the world has moved on.
I discovered the importance of having mogger looks for success in the dating market of the time before most of you knew what a forum was and while everyone except for a few thousand men worldwide was stuck between the blue and red pill.
Now I am telling you that the blackpill is finished and no longer applies the same way it used to, I lived through to peak "blackpill" era and now I am seeing it's demise due to socieconomic factors and changes in foid behaviour, I am always ahead of the curve and waiting for others to catch up on these things
@Clavicular

Just imagine there's a top-tier sprinter and he has been training for years to win the 100m Dash, and after failing multiple times, the last time by 2 milliseconds, he's now a 100% confident he'll do it...

But then, unexpectedly, on the day of the contest, the announcers suddenly tell him that the race will be now a 200m Dash instead......

All his efforts were for nothing, and he feels betrayed, chewed and spat on the ground whole.

His choice is now either to keep doing this until the announcers say he now needs to win a Decathlon Tournament or he can stick to the bread and butter he's specialized on, the 100m Dash, maybe compete here and there at the 200m Dash, and be happy with what he achieved.

It's the same reason a guy who has spent decades specializing in C++ programming, only to learn that now, at his turn to shine, AI is stealing all his job opportunities and fucking him over money and merit.

He can choose to get bitter and angry or to program in C++ for an audience that'll praise him for his abilities...

That's the case for revolver vs pistol, manual vs automatic cars, and so on...

 

[6ft4]

Guy makes video on the idea of handsome men losing their power which ties into some of the stuff I said in the OP
If we assume handsome guys as being sub Chads of HTN-Chadlite level

 

[AustrianMogger]

Guy makes video on the idea of handsome men losing their power which ties into some of the stuff I said in the OP
If we assume handsome guys as being sub Chads of HTN-Chadlite level

you belive that gen alpha is better?

 

[Soter]

they are pushing dysgenetics and depopulation, the idea that they’re gonna allow the best men and best women to match is ridiculous if you understand anything about who runs the modern world

 

[Johanjohan]

1990s
Intentionally going out to a nightlife venue to meet someone to settle down with was seen as a normal activity and things like matchmaking festivals were commonplace and not seen as desperate.

For anyone who didn't meet a partner through social circle, bars/venues were seen as a place to go to actively try to meet someone to settle down with so most people in the venues were there for a specific goal if they were single.
I'll outline how this changes later

2000-2009:
Possibly the Golden era for club slaying because seeking relationships were no longer the primary focus of dating and all voluntary M/F interactions

People born in the 1980s (millenials) were probably the most liberally brainwashed group the world has seen while also being the least focused on settling down and had the least knowledge on the impact caused to society down the line by throwing off the shackles of religion and conservatism and sleeping without a care and not worrying about seeking marriage or kids until you reach 30.

Most euro countries were still ethnostates so there was still the idea that the 50th percentile native man was a good catch and with the economy in a good position, the average white was a good LTR prospect in terms of what he could provide.

MTNs were effectively seen as the attractive looks level with legitimately good looking guys standing out and cleaning up but once the 2 or 3 goodlooking guys in the venue had a girl to leave the club with, the 40 foids remaining in the club who went out to the venue that night with the intention of fucking had to choose between MTNs

View attachment 3210815

The extent of media in this time was text messaging and digital cameras with no NTs having heard about online dating

Clubs were fun af and less serious without everyone being self obsessed and trying to mog and analyze their competition



2010-2014:

This is when shows highlighting the british club slaying culture on party islands started to take off

Spoiler

Social Media exploded and all of a sudden people could slay by messaging through facebook, not just by having to go to a club to meet up

Roids Tats and Tan game starts to gain popularity and suddenly everyone is implementing at least one of the three to try to gain an edge on the competition because suddenly slaying isn't just something that happens here and there thanks to your "chat" when you go out to hit on girls with your mates, but suddenly normies try to ascend to match the slaying results of the naturally goodlooking guys

(Shit like this on tv also had an influence)
View attachment 3210806

I think shit like Geordie Shore actually had a massive impact on ruining club game because people seen these guys slaying from series two onwards after they gained status which caused normies to develop ambitions to slay every night they went out so they looksmaxxed as much as they could to try achieve this but since many other guys were doing it, it only gave them a temporary edge until their competition caught up



In 2012 snapchat, instagram and tinder came out which had a drastic impact on the market

2012 tinder was apparently heaven for slaying if you were in your peak at that time, this wouldve had a drastic impact on the women of that time shifting a portion of the ONS they'd have in durin the course of a year over to tinder and away from clubs
This kind of profile would be Maher tier in 2012-14
View attachment 3210807

This was a GigaChad in early instagram days
View attachment 3210808

I started clubbing in mid 2013 and there was still something good about the energy in clubs, you'd see barely any moggers @forvergymcelling and being a MTN actually got you decent results.
I remember being on a dancefloor with a guy who had a v-neck top and looked like he had 18 months of natty chest gains and a foid came up and started touching his chest and flirting, I was twink mode at the time but in the following months I got natty gains and had pec squeezes from random foids while still having a mediocre natty physique that I just showed off with skin tight shirts.
Some foids were still attention seeking cunts dont get me wrong, but you still felt like you were in with a shot of slaying given that girls would give you a chance but sometimes you wouldnt get over the line

Things began to change during the course of 2014 though and it was like the effects of the things mentioned caused an avalanche coming towards the end of 2014 entering into 2015

2012 was the time when PSL was born and a small amount of people on the internet came to the agreement that behaviour for getting girls through unfamiliar methods (daygame, clubbing) was cope and now looks were all that mattered.

As I mentioned earlier, in the 2000s behaviour and ability to chat a girl up in a club actually would've been a legitimate dating strategy for most men because a MTN was seen as a good catch even in unfamiliar club environment (altho it was still semi familiar in the 2000s because everyone felt like extended family in closer community ethnostate) but in the 2010-14 era, with the economy doing shit, mens main means of outcompeting each other was now their looks and physique.

Obsession with looks theory was born but I will explain later why this belief legitimate for it's time has passed it's sell-by date in it's previous form


2015-2019

This is what I'd describe as the modern era of clubbing where the competition cemented to a point where every guy had a haircut that haloed them (long on top ideal for subpar bones)
Suddenly nobody had pale skin failo or greasy skin as was the case in the 2010s.

Less attractive guys got weeded out way quicker than previous eras when they could still go out and have a decent night with their mates but now it would be impossible for them to cope due to the competition

Roids and Tats probably reached their peak halo during this stage and were heading towards the point of going out of fashion / looking try hard / looking like a caricature who basically dedicated his whole life and image towards trying to impress foids in a nightclub.

View attachment 3210823

Most euro countries are no longer ethnostates so the vibe of venues is ruined by ethnics going to great lengths to try to compete for white women.

White foids use the ethnic's over eagerness to pull to try pitt him against the white man as if to say "look how badly this niglet wants me, if you want to outcompete him you have to step up your desperation levels in your pursuit white man"

This was when I hit my peak slaying days so it was definitely still possible to be a club slayer but I noticed in 2019 in particular, a venue I worked in I seen almost no guys approaching girls at random despite them all being 18-20

When I started clubbing in 2013 it was just a given that when you finally have the chance to approach random girls under the influence of alcohol you turn into a dog off a leash. From what I could see youngcels were high inhib and people just interacted with strangers less.

I'd say in this era girls became more stingy with who they gave out IOIs to, whereas a mogger pre 2014 was getting sexually harassed by girls on a dancefloor.
The rise of "influencer culture" also ruined things since normie foids seen themselves as celebs and took themselves way too seriously and went out solely to get pics which ruins the vibe of venues when theyre full of narcy cunts

Foids were also massive attention whores at this point, maybe a subset always were but at least in the 90s there were girls who went out to meet a partner, in the 2000s there were plenty of girls out to fuck, 2010-14 foids were still kinda going with the flow but standards to fuck were increasing but after the looksmaxxing explosion post 2015 its like girls getting approached by better looking guys didn't cause them to fuck more, it just caused them to get more enjoyment from rejecting because they had more goodlooking guys to reject to fuel their ego.
Rejecting some LTN wouldnt fuel their ego in the same way

Tinder levelled off in this era, not as easy to slay as 2012-13 based on misc stories but a decent looking guy could still do fairly well.
It didnt appear to be getting progressively harder year on year. The algorithm seemed relatively fair.

2020-2024

The most immediate difference I noticed in 2020 was tinder going to shit since more attention seeking foids who never intended on using the app to actually meet began flooding the app and in this year I had 10 planned meetups in a row who all flaked.

I managed 3 tinder meetups across 2021-2022, two of which were meetups in public which led nowhere and one was a straight over to the house slay
DoctorLooksmax mentioned how he was able to get girls straight over to the house to slay in 2020 with shitty pics before he was fully looksmaxxed, yet in 2023 with every aspect of his online dating profiles optimized and being in his most looksmaxxed state he had to slay via dates since he couldn't get girls straight over to the house any more.

The tinder algorithm changed DRASTICALLY from 2018 to 2021 and beyond since I was able to get 100 matches in the first 48 hours after making an account by swiping right on every foid in 2018. By 2021, swiping right on every foid would result in me getting about 5 matches with another 5 hidden and due to limited likes I'd quickly run out of likes and would have to pay to see the hidden profiles who liked me.
Foids standards may have changed but in 2018 I was using a shitty selfie in a dull room with a €2 primark t-shirt as my main pic with my other pics being gymcel mirror selfies and only one NT social pic.
In 2023 I tried to give it everything I could by using an array of NT pics taken post surgery with morphs on top of that, one even had me heightmogging a group of 3 other goodlooking chaps (incelcon pic) and height could now be added to your profile which wasn't the case prior to 2020, yet my results were pathetic by comparison to 2018.

Even Bartek PUA mentioned how his results on hinge used to be really good but he took a break from it for a few months and when he made a new account he said only low quality girls he didnt even want to swipe right on were being shown to him and he assumed that they changed the algo to try force people to pay for the paid version once the app had enough popularity and userbase gained whereas the previous algo gave fair results to get people to use initially

Due to foids sitting at home on their phones all day in 2020, foids standards for face probably skyrocketed thanks to tiktok only showing them countless moggers daily.
By this point foids were completely desensitized to seeing guys with perfect physiques online since they'd been exposed to it on instagram for years now whereas a roidcel physique actually had a great deal of novelty to it in the mid 2010s.
Now its just a case of having something foids have seen (through a screen) 1000x before so it doesn't provide as much novelty as seeing a new mogger face since that's more unique to each person than a roided physique.

Even though roiding and gaining a 10/10 body was seen as a massive halo for a MTN previously, it now seemed as tho the minimum face needed to have casual sex from tinder/clubs raised to HTN meaning that a large portion of guys who could slay through non face related looksmaxxes were now counted out of the game, meaning that the popularity of gymcelling and fitted clothes decreased as focus switched back to face.

Now lets take a look at nightlife.
I went out once in late 2021 by sneaking into a venue without the vax pass having not been in a venue since early 2020
The first thing I noticed was how retarded foids were since there was an outdoor area that was always crammed with random people mingling with each other but on this night all the foids segregated themselves to their own group of tables away from any guys, as if they wanted to make it as easy as possible to reject any guy who would take the blatant move of walking over to approach. I put this down to the venue being full of retarded chav foids when it used to be for normal people but the dogshit atmosphere I noticed that night really seemed to stick in subsequent nights.
I genuinely believe people's behaviour has become fucking retarded after getting the vax or maybe people who didnt get vaxxed dropped out of society and stopped socializing after realizing during the lockdowns how retarded normies are, I would say this was the case for me to a pretty large extent.
The vibe in clubs now is just fucking dead and miserable although it was heading that way year on year since 2013 but I still witnessed a mogger night in 2019 in a 100% white student venue.

I got one slay in a club in 2022 upen my return to clubs and in 2023-2024 post surgery when I went out a lot I had 10 nights out in a row without a slay which wouldve been unthinkable at any previous point in my life since I started college.
You could say I just dont have the appetitie to dumpster dive any more which is true but I was still going for chubsters who used to be easy slays in 2017-19 but now they weren't. I even was denied a slay by having a chubster say I was too goodlooking to approach her so something had to be wrong, whereas I believe the slight underbite I had previously made them more comfortable fucking me since I had a failo which justified me approaching them.

I also encountered foids who said that they go out clubbing solely to be in the company of their friends and said regardless of what level of guy approached them or how attractive they found him, they would not under any circumstances pursue something with a guy from a club because they claim to be only seeking LTR not ONS and also claim that they would never date a guy who they first met in a club even if he wanted to date and go the LTR route.
They compartmentalize a goodlooking, ideal potential BF who they first encounter in a club as a worse prospect than some subhuman they're forced to be around in daily life.

What I said in the 2015-19 era about IOIs being harder to come by also applies to this era to a greater extent, foids just dont care as much when they see a mogger. Like I said the novelty of roidcel halo has wore off and not the novelty of having a mogger face is wearing off as well unless GIGA rare.
Foids just dont want to give men any power today and this is why I say we're in a post mogging era.
Foids are actually more likely to punish a guy who tried to mog and falls short of top mogger than they are to punish a guy who did nothing to improve or compete on mogging.

Women punish you more for trying to compete and falling short of first place than not trying to compete against other men at all

By "trying to compete" I mean trying to be as goodlooking as you can and present yourself as well as you can and mog as many men as you can. I use "first place" vaguely in the sense that if you are the third biggest mogger in a club you can still be perceived as being in first place / top of the...

looksmax.org

Foids are just worn out by casual sex with moggers who wont commit because they're now bombarded with messaging that men hate sluts (thanks to countless podcasts, street interviews etc discussing bodycount) whereas millenial foids for example weren't even aware that being sluts would drastically lower their value or chances of getting married since most men of that era were bluepilled due to the lack of internet/media discussion around bodycounts.

Spoiler

many foids now severely depressed from fucking around

JFL @ this foid, talks about emotional damage of casual sex then says she's not having sex again until she's married

Finds a guy to marry 6 months later

looksmax.org

Rather than foids choosing a happy medium of seeking an LTR with their looksmatch and holding off on moggers unless they show legit LTR interest, they have gone to the extreme of giving casual sex to the top 1% of guys they see on tinder but when it comes to a relationship they want complete security in choosing a guy they think would never leave them.

This is what foids see as the most risk averse strategy and its the strategy most foids are going all-in on post 2020, fuck a 1% guy from online if they feel like fulfilling sexual urges but also not going all in on slutmaxxing like past generations because all girls are mentally damaged before they hit 18 from over-dopamine through social media so they seek an LTR and tend to seek out the biggest subhuman they can find who worships them and they have complete control over and can treat like shit if they please.

@Whatever can vouch for his sister only dating subhumans who no other girl wanted because she was so desperate for control.
The UK PSLers I speak with outside of the forum have also stated how its an "oofy doofy" world now, and every above average girl seems to be dating a below average guy intentionally, whereas before it was a case of most couples being looksmatched and the lower looks level guys genuinely struggling more than average guys.
Now it seems to be the case of average guys who are trying to improve struggling way more than LTNs who are happy to bask in their own subhumanity and not improve in any way and be legit slobs.
I have an extensive post history showing examples of this but typing this thread is just too exhausting to go find them.

The influx of ethnics post 2020 has also been detrimental because now if you go to a venue there might be 40 ethnics in the venue trying to compete while there are next to no ethnic women to balance this out.
Foids also dont want to be outdoors anymore and want to limit their actions with men and strangers to the minimum amount possible due to getting harrassed by ethnics in the daytime the second they are discovered to be alone.
The problem is, with foids now switching to getting with LTNs for LTRs, that means that almost every ethnic is now on the table as a prospect for a white foid since most ethnics fall in the LTN range.
I didn't want to believe it and previously gave foid sentience more credit than it deserves but white foids are legitimately retarded enough to engage in LTRs with LTN ethnics.

@nofap has stated how he's seeing white HTBs with ethnic LTNs constantly.

Just be anything but white theory is legit in 2024

Last Saturday i went out to a restaurant and i saw 3 blonde htb women each eating alone with pan faced asain manlets, one off them had ugly oily spikey hair that reeked. i couldn’t believe my eyes and smoked a pack in the 2,5 hours i was there because of extreme mental stress, I barely ate...

looksmax.org

It's almost as if a foid who's failed at dating (because she fucked a couple of moggers and ruined her ability to pairbond) now sees dating a LTN ethnic as the safe bet to have a couple of kids and also a way to get back at the white moggers who didnt commit
They can also get with ethnics due to taking pity on them but also due to them being more primitive and low inhib than the native men because they have far less to lose since they're at the bottom of the hierarchy by default.
Foids will never take pity on a MTN-HTN white guy regardless of how much effort he is making to make a good life for himself but hasnt quite hit his stride yet.

Also I have a theory that foids are just willing to fuck the invading group regardless of whether they mog the natives or are subhuman compared to the natives, regardless of whether they're invading by invite and stepping off a plane or invading by brute force, foids dont distinguish one as requiring strength and one as being meaningless, they simply see someone of a different race walking around and subconsiously think that he must have a great level of status if he can just walk around freely without being killed by the majority, he must be the one who's ruling the native masses.


TO SUMMARIZE:
I wish it was still a case of mogger looks being the single most important thing in dating as was the case from 2010-2019, but the fact is that it was just a brief window in time.
Are Looks still the most important thing? Yes but not for the reason you think, LTN/Subhuman looks are actually a benefit over being MTN for finding a relationship, so looks are still the determining factor, but its no longer a case of more looks = more relationship success.

Pre 2010 Looks didnt really matter to a huge degree because so few guys stood out for their looks (since almost nobody was looksmaxxed) and relying on chat/charisma and the fact you were good financially in an ethnostate was enough to attract most girls as a MTN.

From 2010-2019, the economy got worse and men tried to outcompete each other by increasing their looks because women gave their pussy to the highest looks bidder when a roidcel body or HTN face still had extreme novelty but was decreasing in value year on year.
This is when PSL was born and the blackpill made sense at the time given the dating market and explosion of online dating and tinder experiments showing difference in treatment of Chad v normie online.

From 2020-2024, many whites are in a position of hopelessness financially and hopelessness in terms of having a family since they wont own a home.
All looksmaxxing has more or less been tapped out and men look as good as they're ever going to look.
The bidding for females vaginas isn't going to get much higher and foids have casual sex fatigue and the novelty of seeing counless moggers online has worn off and this punished all decent looking guys irl as a result.
Foids have made the mental switch to wanting a relationship but since they associate everything to do with a white man trying to enhance his lot in life as negative/wannabe mogger, they've switched to almost exclusively dating LTN/Subhuman whites or LTN/Subhuman ethnics.
Ethnic influx is stacking the odds even more against MTN white

This forum was created in 2019 in the final remnants of the looks theory era, dating has changed but the people on here are still parroting shit that applied the most in the mid 2010s, the world has moved on.
I discovered the importance of having mogger looks for success in the dating market of the time before most of you knew what a forum was and while everyone except for a few thousand men worldwide was stuck between the blue and red pill.
Now I am telling you that the blackpill is finished and no longer applies the same way it used to, I lived through to peak "blackpill" era and now I am seeing it's demise due to socieconomic factors and changes in foid behaviour, I am always ahead of the curve and waiting for others to catch up on these things
@Clavicular

Tales from the basement

Irish guys are ugly inbreds, stop acting like irish girls are dating male models

They are fucking some inbred irish guy who isnt rotting on an indian forum

While you are incel due to your autism

 

[banjojones]

1990s
Intentionally going out to a nightlife venue to meet someone to settle down with was seen as a normal activity and things like matchmaking festivals were commonplace and not seen as desperate.

For anyone who didn't meet a partner through social circle, bars/venues were seen as a place to go to actively try to meet someone to settle down with so most people in the venues were there for a specific goal if they were single.
I'll outline how this changes later

2000-2009:
Possibly the Golden era for club slaying because seeking relationships were no longer the primary focus of dating and all voluntary M/F interactions

People born in the 1980s (millenials) were probably the most liberally brainwashed group the world has seen while also being the least focused on settling down and had the least knowledge on the impact caused to society down the line by throwing off the shackles of religion and conservatism and sleeping without a care and not worrying about seeking marriage or kids until you reach 30.

Most euro countries were still ethnostates so there was still the idea that the 50th percentile native man was a good catch and with the economy in a good position, the average white was a good LTR prospect in terms of what he could provide.

MTNs were effectively seen as the attractive looks level with legitimately good looking guys standing out and cleaning up but once the 2 or 3 goodlooking guys in the venue had a girl to leave the club with, the 40 foids remaining in the club who went out to the venue that night with the intention of fucking had to choose between MTNs

View attachment 3210815

The extent of media in this time was text messaging and digital cameras with no NTs having heard about online dating

Clubs were fun af and less serious without everyone being self obsessed and trying to mog and analyze their competition



2010-2014:

This is when shows highlighting the british club slaying culture on party islands started to take off

Spoiler

Social Media exploded and all of a sudden people could slay by messaging through facebook, not just by having to go to a club to meet up

Roids Tats and Tan game starts to gain popularity and suddenly everyone is implementing at least one of the three to try to gain an edge on the competition because suddenly slaying isn't just something that happens here and there thanks to your "chat" when you go out to hit on girls with your mates, but suddenly normies try to ascend to match the slaying results of the naturally goodlooking guys

(Shit like this on tv also had an influence)
View attachment 3210806

I think shit like Geordie Shore actually had a massive impact on ruining club game because people seen these guys slaying from series two onwards after they gained status which caused normies to develop ambitions to slay every night they went out so they looksmaxxed as much as they could to try achieve this but since many other guys were doing it, it only gave them a temporary edge until their competition caught up



In 2012 snapchat, instagram and tinder came out which had a drastic impact on the market

2012 tinder was apparently heaven for slaying if you were in your peak at that time, this wouldve had a drastic impact on the women of that time shifting a portion of the ONS they'd have in durin the course of a year over to tinder and away from clubs
This kind of profile would be Maher tier in 2012-14
View attachment 3210807

This was a GigaChad in early instagram days
View attachment 3210808

I started clubbing in mid 2013 and there was still something good about the energy in clubs, you'd see barely any moggers @forvergymcelling and being a MTN actually got you decent results.
I remember being on a dancefloor with a guy who had a v-neck top and looked like he had 18 months of natty chest gains and a foid came up and started touching his chest and flirting, I was twink mode at the time but in the following months I got natty gains and had pec squeezes from random foids while still having a mediocre natty physique that I just showed off with skin tight shirts.
Some foids were still attention seeking cunts dont get me wrong, but you still felt like you were in with a shot of slaying given that girls would give you a chance but sometimes you wouldnt get over the line

Things began to change during the course of 2014 though and it was like the effects of the things mentioned caused an avalanche coming towards the end of 2014 entering into 2015

2012 was the time when PSL was born and a small amount of people on the internet came to the agreement that behaviour for getting girls through unfamiliar methods (daygame, clubbing) was cope and now looks were all that mattered.

As I mentioned earlier, in the 2000s behaviour and ability to chat a girl up in a club actually would've been a legitimate dating strategy for most men because a MTN was seen as a good catch even in unfamiliar club environment (altho it was still semi familiar in the 2000s because everyone felt like extended family in closer community ethnostate) but in the 2010-14 era, with the economy doing shit, mens main means of outcompeting each other was now their looks and physique.

Obsession with looks theory was born but I will explain later why this belief legitimate for it's time has passed it's sell-by date in it's previous form


2015-2019

This is what I'd describe as the modern era of clubbing where the competition cemented to a point where every guy had a haircut that haloed them (long on top ideal for subpar bones)
Suddenly nobody had pale skin failo or greasy skin as was the case in the 2010s.

Less attractive guys got weeded out way quicker than previous eras when they could still go out and have a decent night with their mates but now it would be impossible for them to cope due to the competition

Roids and Tats probably reached their peak halo during this stage and were heading towards the point of going out of fashion / looking try hard / looking like a caricature who basically dedicated his whole life and image towards trying to impress foids in a nightclub.

View attachment 3210823

Most euro countries are no longer ethnostates so the vibe of venues is ruined by ethnics going to great lengths to try to compete for white women.

White foids use the ethnic's over eagerness to pull to try pitt him against the white man as if to say "look how badly this niglet wants me, if you want to outcompete him you have to step up your desperation levels in your pursuit white man"

This was when I hit my peak slaying days so it was definitely still possible to be a club slayer but I noticed in 2019 in particular, a venue I worked in I seen almost no guys approaching girls at random despite them all being 18-20

When I started clubbing in 2013 it was just a given that when you finally have the chance to approach random girls under the influence of alcohol you turn into a dog off a leash. From what I could see youngcels were high inhib and people just interacted with strangers less.

I'd say in this era girls became more stingy with who they gave out IOIs to, whereas a mogger pre 2014 was getting sexually harassed by girls on a dancefloor.
The rise of "influencer culture" also ruined things since normie foids seen themselves as celebs and took themselves way too seriously and went out solely to get pics which ruins the vibe of venues when theyre full of narcy cunts

Foids were also massive attention whores at this point, maybe a subset always were but at least in the 90s there were girls who went out to meet a partner, in the 2000s there were plenty of girls out to fuck, 2010-14 foids were still kinda going with the flow but standards to fuck were increasing but after the looksmaxxing explosion post 2015 its like girls getting approached by better looking guys didn't cause them to fuck more, it just caused them to get more enjoyment from rejecting because they had more goodlooking guys to reject to fuel their ego.
Rejecting some LTN wouldnt fuel their ego in the same way

Tinder levelled off in this era, not as easy to slay as 2012-13 based on misc stories but a decent looking guy could still do fairly well.
It didnt appear to be getting progressively harder year on year. The algorithm seemed relatively fair.

2020-2024

The most immediate difference I noticed in 2020 was tinder going to shit since more attention seeking foids who never intended on using the app to actually meet began flooding the app and in this year I had 10 planned meetups in a row who all flaked.

I managed 3 tinder meetups across 2021-2022, two of which were meetups in public which led nowhere and one was a straight over to the house slay
DoctorLooksmax mentioned how he was able to get girls straight over to the house to slay in 2020 with shitty pics before he was fully looksmaxxed, yet in 2023 with every aspect of his online dating profiles optimized and being in his most looksmaxxed state he had to slay via dates since he couldn't get girls straight over to the house any more.

The tinder algorithm changed DRASTICALLY from 2018 to 2021 and beyond since I was able to get 100 matches in the first 48 hours after making an account by swiping right on every foid in 2018. By 2021, swiping right on every foid would result in me getting about 5 matches with another 5 hidden and due to limited likes I'd quickly run out of likes and would have to pay to see the hidden profiles who liked me.
Foids standards may have changed but in 2018 I was using a shitty selfie in a dull room with a €2 primark t-shirt as my main pic with my other pics being gymcel mirror selfies and only one NT social pic.
In 2023 I tried to give it everything I could by using an array of NT pics taken post surgery with morphs on top of that, one even had me heightmogging a group of 3 other goodlooking chaps (incelcon pic) and height could now be added to your profile which wasn't the case prior to 2020, yet my results were pathetic by comparison to 2018.

Even Bartek PUA mentioned how his results on hinge used to be really good but he took a break from it for a few months and when he made a new account he said only low quality girls he didnt even want to swipe right on were being shown to him and he assumed that they changed the algo to try force people to pay for the paid version once the app had enough popularity and userbase gained whereas the previous algo gave fair results to get people to use initially

Due to foids sitting at home on their phones all day in 2020, foids standards for face probably skyrocketed thanks to tiktok only showing them countless moggers daily.
By this point foids were completely desensitized to seeing guys with perfect physiques online since they'd been exposed to it on instagram for years now whereas a roidcel physique actually had a great deal of novelty to it in the mid 2010s.
Now its just a case of having something foids have seen (through a screen) 1000x before so it doesn't provide as much novelty as seeing a new mogger face since that's more unique to each person than a roided physique.

Even though roiding and gaining a 10/10 body was seen as a massive halo for a MTN previously, it now seemed as tho the minimum face needed to have casual sex from tinder/clubs raised to HTN meaning that a large portion of guys who could slay through non face related looksmaxxes were now counted out of the game, meaning that the popularity of gymcelling and fitted clothes decreased as focus switched back to face.

Now lets take a look at nightlife.
I went out once in late 2021 by sneaking into a venue without the vax pass having not been in a venue since early 2020
The first thing I noticed was how retarded foids were since there was an outdoor area that was always crammed with random people mingling with each other but on this night all the foids segregated themselves to their own group of tables away from any guys, as if they wanted to make it as easy as possible to reject any guy who would take the blatant move of walking over to approach. I put this down to the venue being full of retarded chav foids when it used to be for normal people but the dogshit atmosphere I noticed that night really seemed to stick in subsequent nights.
I genuinely believe people's behaviour has become fucking retarded after getting the vax or maybe people who didnt get vaxxed dropped out of society and stopped socializing after realizing during the lockdowns how retarded normies are, I would say this was the case for me to a pretty large extent.
The vibe in clubs now is just fucking dead and miserable although it was heading that way year on year since 2013 but I still witnessed a mogger night in 2019 in a 100% white student venue.

I got one slay in a club in 2022 upen my return to clubs and in 2023-2024 post surgery when I went out a lot I had 10 nights out in a row without a slay which wouldve been unthinkable at any previous point in my life since I started college.
You could say I just dont have the appetitie to dumpster dive any more which is true but I was still going for chubsters who used to be easy slays in 2017-19 but now they weren't. I even was denied a slay by having a chubster say I was too goodlooking to approach her so something had to be wrong, whereas I believe the slight underbite I had previously made them more comfortable fucking me since I had a failo which justified me approaching them.

I also encountered foids who said that they go out clubbing solely to be in the company of their friends and said regardless of what level of guy approached them or how attractive they found him, they would not under any circumstances pursue something with a guy from a club because they claim to be only seeking LTR not ONS and also claim that they would never date a guy who they first met in a club even if he wanted to date and go the LTR route.
They compartmentalize a goodlooking, ideal potential BF who they first encounter in a club as a worse prospect than some subhuman they're forced to be around in daily life.

What I said in the 2015-19 era about IOIs being harder to come by also applies to this era to a greater extent, foids just dont care as much when they see a mogger. Like I said the novelty of roidcel halo has wore off and not the novelty of having a mogger face is wearing off as well unless GIGA rare.
Foids just dont want to give men any power today and this is why I say we're in a post mogging era.
Foids are actually more likely to punish a guy who tried to mog and falls short of top mogger than they are to punish a guy who did nothing to improve or compete on mogging.

Women punish you more for trying to compete and falling short of first place than not trying to compete against other men at all

By "trying to compete" I mean trying to be as goodlooking as you can and present yourself as well as you can and mog as many men as you can. I use "first place" vaguely in the sense that if you are the third biggest mogger in a club you can still be perceived as being in first place / top of the...

looksmax.org

Foids are just worn out by casual sex with moggers who wont commit because they're now bombarded with messaging that men hate sluts (thanks to countless podcasts, street interviews etc discussing bodycount) whereas millenial foids for example weren't even aware that being sluts would drastically lower their value or chances of getting married since most men of that era were bluepilled due to the lack of internet/media discussion around bodycounts.

Spoiler

many foids now severely depressed from fucking around

JFL @ this foid, talks about emotional damage of casual sex then says she's not having sex again until she's married

Finds a guy to marry 6 months later

looksmax.org

Rather than foids choosing a happy medium of seeking an LTR with their looksmatch and holding off on moggers unless they show legit LTR interest, they have gone to the extreme of giving casual sex to the top 1% of guys they see on tinder but when it comes to a relationship they want complete security in choosing a guy they think would never leave them.

This is what foids see as the most risk averse strategy and its the strategy most foids are going all-in on post 2020, fuck a 1% guy from online if they feel like fulfilling sexual urges but also not going all in on slutmaxxing like past generations because all girls are mentally damaged before they hit 18 from over-dopamine through social media so they seek an LTR and tend to seek out the biggest subhuman they can find who worships them and they have complete control over and can treat like shit if they please.

@Whatever can vouch for his sister only dating subhumans who no other girl wanted because she was so desperate for control.
The UK PSLers I speak with outside of the forum have also stated how its an "oofy doofy" world now, and every above average girl seems to be dating a below average guy intentionally, whereas before it was a case of most couples being looksmatched and the lower looks level guys genuinely struggling more than average guys.
Now it seems to be the case of average guys who are trying to improve struggling way more than LTNs who are happy to bask in their own subhumanity and not improve in any way and be legit slobs.
I have an extensive post history showing examples of this but typing this thread is just too exhausting to go find them.

The influx of ethnics post 2020 has also been detrimental because now if you go to a venue there might be 40 ethnics in the venue trying to compete while there are next to no ethnic women to balance this out.
Foids also dont want to be outdoors anymore and want to limit their actions with men and strangers to the minimum amount possible due to getting harrassed by ethnics in the daytime the second they are discovered to be alone.
The problem is, with foids now switching to getting with LTNs for LTRs, that means that almost every ethnic is now on the table as a prospect for a white foid since most ethnics fall in the LTN range.
I didn't want to believe it and previously gave foid sentience more credit than it deserves but white foids are legitimately retarded enough to engage in LTRs with LTN ethnics.

@nofap has stated how he's seeing white HTBs with ethnic LTNs constantly.

Just be anything but white theory is legit in 2024

Last Saturday i went out to a restaurant and i saw 3 blonde htb women each eating alone with pan faced asain manlets, one off them had ugly oily spikey hair that reeked. i couldn’t believe my eyes and smoked a pack in the 2,5 hours i was there because of extreme mental stress, I barely ate...

looksmax.org

It's almost as if a foid who's failed at dating (because she fucked a couple of moggers and ruined her ability to pairbond) now sees dating a LTN ethnic as the safe bet to have a couple of kids and also a way to get back at the white moggers who didnt commit
They can also get with ethnics due to taking pity on them but also due to them being more primitive and low inhib than the native men because they have far less to lose since they're at the bottom of the hierarchy by default.
Foids will never take pity on a MTN-HTN white guy regardless of how much effort he is making to make a good life for himself but hasnt quite hit his stride yet.

Also I have a theory that foids are just willing to fuck the invading group regardless of whether they mog the natives or are subhuman compared to the natives, regardless of whether they're invading by invite and stepping off a plane or invading by brute force, foids dont distinguish one as requiring strength and one as being meaningless, they simply see someone of a different race walking around and subconsiously think that he must have a great level of status if he can just walk around freely without being killed by the majority, he must be the one who's ruling the native masses.


TO SUMMARIZE:
I wish it was still a case of mogger looks being the single most important thing in dating as was the case from 2010-2019, but the fact is that it was just a brief window in time.
Are Looks still the most important thing? Yes but not for the reason you think, LTN/Subhuman looks are actually a benefit over being MTN for finding a relationship, so looks are still the determining factor, but its no longer a case of more looks = more relationship success.

Pre 2010 Looks didnt really matter to a huge degree because so few guys stood out for their looks (since almost nobody was looksmaxxed) and relying on chat/charisma and the fact you were good financially in an ethnostate was enough to attract most girls as a MTN.

From 2010-2019, the economy got worse and men tried to outcompete each other by increasing their looks because women gave their pussy to the highest looks bidder when a roidcel body or HTN face still had extreme novelty but was decreasing in value year on year.
This is when PSL was born and the blackpill made sense at the time given the dating market and explosion of online dating and tinder experiments showing difference in treatment of Chad v normie online.

From 2020-2024, many whites are in a position of hopelessness financially and hopelessness in terms of having a family since they wont own a home.
All looksmaxxing has more or less been tapped out and men look as good as they're ever going to look.
The bidding for females vaginas isn't going to get much higher and foids have casual sex fatigue and the novelty of seeing counless moggers online has worn off and this punished all decent looking guys irl as a result.
Foids have made the mental switch to wanting a relationship but since they associate everything to do with a white man trying to enhance his lot in life as negative/wannabe mogger, they've switched to almost exclusively dating LTN/Subhuman whites or LTN/Subhuman ethnics.
Ethnic influx is stacking the odds even more against MTN white

This forum was created in 2019 in the final remnants of the looks theory era, dating has changed but the people on here are still parroting shit that applied the most in the mid 2010s, the world has moved on.
I discovered the importance of having mogger looks for success in the dating market of the time before most of you knew what a forum was and while everyone except for a few thousand men worldwide was stuck between the blue and red pill.
Now I am telling you that the blackpill is finished and no longer applies the same way it used to, I lived through to peak "blackpill" era and now I am seeing it's demise due to socieconomic factors and changes in foid behaviour, I am always ahead of the curve and waiting for others to catch up on these things
@Clavicular

Uh does this only apply for the UK or the also the U.S.A? In case ya didnt know this the U.S.A does NOT have “pubs” or a pub culture. Sadly we are all broke/work 60 hours a week so we can pay high taxes so we can fund Israeli settlers to steal Palestinian land that we dont have the time/energy to boogey woogie

 

[Whatever]

Uh does this only apply for the UK or the also the U.S.A? In case ya didnt know this the U.S.A does NOT have “pubs” or a pub culture. Sadly we are all broke/work 60 hours a week so we can pay high taxes so we can fund Israeli settlers to steal Palestinian land that we dont have the time/energy to boogey woogie

Read my post #54 in this topic boyo, I answered this exact question. I too am a burgercel who workcels literally 60+ hours per week, literally 58, 69, 61 the past 3 weeks.

But I don’t know how much this even matters because since covid millennials and zoomers are just not social, it’s like half are giga workcels and the other half are giga rotters. I’ve had neighbors in their 20s and even the good looking ones don’t go out, don’t have people over, nothing.

Online dating seems to have an end in sight, a huge percentage of the population has had bad experiences with it. So what needs to happen now are new metas for meeting people and going out becomes more of a thing again. But this would require a better economy, safer streets, it’s not gonna happen magically but I think new trends will emerge.

 

[+RCisAspie]

I started clubbing properly in 2015 and it was insane and fun asf, I was out most nights of the week. You could slay with ease if you were gymcelled and low inhb

Now you can literally be the best looking guy in the club and get nothing. 0 IOIs, 0 slays.

Clubs are utterly dead for slaying now. Bars mog into oblivion. Girls in bars are way more receptive to approaches and it gives you a chance to demonstrate your inhb, humor, wit, escalation ect way better than clubs (sui fuel for non NTs)

LTNs may get relationships, but make no mistake, these girls are repulsed by these subhumans. They are almost always whipped into oblivion, paying the girl's rent, buying her shit constantly. Very little sex. They are abused everyday of their lives. These relationships are always garbage; the girl will treat them like shit because of low attraction and bitterness of not being able to secure a Chad. A mogger can cuck these guys without breaking a sweat

Getting a girlfriend is not too hard if you're average

But if you think you can secure her loyalty while receiving regular, good sex Think again I am here yet again to remind you fags that you have to be an utter retard to even think about LTRing as an average guy You can have the wife, the house, the dog and everything in between But the...

looksmax.org

Muh oofy doofy

Another day, another med jock cucking High sex appeal American girl with oofy doofy boyfriend ready to cuck him. She was even willing to come visit me in London since she travels a lot She was plastered all over his feed But he was only in one section of her highlights If your girl...

looksmax.org

As for slaying hot white girls, it's all about social circle, Instagram and Raya.

Good looks are the bare minimum. She needs to see you have influence, money, a social circle, life experience, NT, outgoing, extroverted, well travelled ect

You need to tick every box to slay from Instagram. The market has been monopolized beyond comprehension. Even most here have no idea how fucking over it is.

What does social life and slaying look like after college , also whats ideal peak life after

 

[AustrianMogger]

@Xangsane what is now the new rule? I dont get this thread

 

[Deleted member 81875]

Slavs are white

I’m Nordic then

 

[Deleted member 81875]

Steroids are more wide spread than ever

Gym body has no halo anymore so I quit gym and just lean now

 

[R@m@]

2000-2019 was such a fucking great time

 

[Xangsane]

2000-2019 was such a fucking great time

y

 

[looksmaxxed]

when psl first came around, it was 20:80, now with instagram, tinder, onlyfans, male surplus from mass immigration, etc, etc it's closer to 5:95

it's actually quite over. soon the ability for the average man to get sex without hookers will become zero percent

 

[Deleted member 81875]

I’m Nordic then

@Xangsane I’m joking do you but understand sarcasm JFL

 

[Deleted member 81875]

I'm seeing so many interracial couples outside

What race are they and does the man mog the girl? Are you including Med/Levantine/Turks as ethnic or no?

 

[the_nextDavidLaid]

No you've got it completely wrong, I am saying that to get a relationship nowadays you are at more of an advantage by being a LTN or subhuman over MTN because of how girls operate now as they're seeking maximum power and security in the relationship above all else.

just let a whore use you bro because just trust me ok? Fuck off i shouldve killed myself a long time ago

 

[Xangsane]

What race are they and does the man mog the girl? Are you including Med/Levantine/Turks as ethnic or no?

often a white woman and a dark (south asian or black) man.

 

[LampPostPrime]

The most annoying is thing is bang on 5/10 average as fuck girls have ego, becasue of retards on dating apps. If you want back pre-dating apps/social media average women didn't have this ego or air of self-importance.

Also "yaaaas you go girl slay" culture is at an extreme fever pitch right now. Especially post 2017 Weinstein effect world where you can't even breathe wrong without being accused of sex assault

 

[AlphaLooksmaxxer666]

when psl first came around, it was 20:80, now with instagram, tinder, onlyfans, male surplus from mass immigration, etc, etc it's closer to 5:95

it's actually quite over. soon the ability for the average man to get sex without hookers will become zero percent

it is already that way for the average man tbh

 

[Society hates me]

I am saying the standards to slay via clubbing and online dating are ever increasing and most men can no longer improve to keep up with the increase in such standards whereas in the 2010s it was realistic for guys to looksmax their way into club/tinder slaying



No you've got it completely wrong, I am saying that to get a relationship nowadays you are at more of an advantage by being a LTN or subhuman over MTN because of how girls operate now as they're seeking maximum power and security in the relationship above all else.

Pre 2010, a MTN could give a foid a satisfactory sex life because they could have attraction to a MTN
Whereas post 2020, with foids over exposure to Chads, a MTN is just as unappealing to her sexually as both LTNs and subhumans so she thinks she may as well pick a LTN or Subhuman because she feels they're guaranteed to never leave her

I see the drop in marriage rates having a role to play in this because previously a foid could marry her looksmatch and she would feel a sense of guarantee he would stay due to the marriage
Whereas now almost nobody is getting married so if she gets in an LTR with a MTN she is at risk of losing him years down the line because we're now in a fully open market where people can leave at any time thanks to such low marriage rates

The only way a foid feels secure in an LTR is with a subhuman or LTN who she believes she has a much greater chance of getting a ring from or having him stay with her forever even if she gets no ring

YeAh dumbass. The standards for fucking everything have fucking skyrocketed since 2020. It’s completely impossible to date or even be seen as anything other than subhuman

 

[wristcel]

as a UK oldcel, I can relate too a lot of this. It's fairly on point