Can I do MSE+FM more than once?

[mvp2v1]

Is it possible to do 2 rounds of MSE+FM (assume the first was successful). My goal would be to get that bit more of cheekbone expansion as well as more forward growth. My maxilla is currently quite undersized, but perhaps not to a severe degree. (I do have quite bad breathing issues and sleep apnea though (this may be related mostly to a deviated septum)).

Another question: If after one MSE treatment I get severe overexpansion on one side, could I go for a second where all force is applied to one side only?

Copy and pasted from a reddit Question.

 

[Deleted member 9467]

yes.

 

[mvp2v1]

yes.

How much time is needed between the first and second? Also why not just 2x the number of turns with the first? Cuold one just "eye ball" the expansion, and decide on their own when to stop?

 

[Agendum]

MSE+FM is a meme. I already did it to evaluate it. Barely helped with breathing issues. Its nice once you get the split but thats mostly due to the teeth obstruction, you'll eventually have to close the gap. Breathing issues are usually due to downswining of the face more than nasal volume.

Only worth it if you have subhuman IMW.

 

[Deleted member 8988]

MSE+FM is a meme. I already did it to evaluate it. Barely helped with breathing issues. Its nice once you get the split but thats mostly due to the teeth obstruction, you'll eventually have to close the gap. Breathing issues are usually due to downswining of the face more than nasal volume.

Only worth it if you have subhuman IMW.

but isn't it the only non surgical way that isn't implants or fillers to pull the upper part of the maxilla forward? I am maybe the least suitable candidate for MSE and FM tho: overjet, wide enough palate, zygos wider than gonions and temples, good pfl and ipd, wide as fuck nose, face asymmetry. Still, I know an ortho who could make my mse and facemask and mount them for so much less than this treatment goes for usually.

 

[Deleted member 19064]

Mse is only good if you need it. Very easy to fuck up your harmony. Also after you go through it once I doubt you'd want to do a second time it's not fun

 

[mvp2v1]

Mse is only good if you need it. Very easy to fuck up your harmony. Also after you go through it once I doubt you'd want to do a second time it's not fun

MSE+FM is a meme. I already did it to evaluate it. Barely helped with breathing issues. Its nice once you get the split but thats mostly due to the teeth obstruction, you'll eventually have to close the gap. Breathing issues are usually due to downswining of the face more than nasal volume.

Only worth it if you have subhuman IMW.

I'm trying to fix my face why would I care about pain/comfort. I already live in a constant state of pain from hard mewing+mkenzy tucking. I Mew until my entire face hurts. I want to loosen the sutures to make movement easier, MSE+FM would do this, not to mention it would be even strong force than my tongue. And I do think it could be enough to transform me like this kid: (my current state is very similar to this kids starting state) I'm also going to be doing online classes only so I can wear FM 24/7 peptides... etc

 

[AlmostPerfect]

Is it possible to do 2 rounds of MSE+FM (assume the first was successful). My goal would be to get that bit more of cheekbone expansion as well as more forward growth. My maxilla is currently quite undersized, but perhaps not to a severe degree. (I do have quite bad breathing issues and sleep apnea though (this may be related mostly to a deviated septum)).

Another question: If after one MSE treatment I get severe overexpansion on one side, could I go for a second where all force is applied to one side only?

Copy and pasted from a reddit Question.

There is a new a better version of the mse that will be available very soon. No contact with the teeth, uses 6 screws and will not bend for optimal expansion. You should use this device. It should fix your breathing issues

You dont need to do mse twice you just need to continually expand and contract to keep the sutures loose so you can keep pulling forward. To much expansion is not ideal I think because it will fill out hallow cheeks and will start to make the base of your nose too wide. What you want is the most forward movement usually.

 

[mvp2v1]

There is a new a better version of the mse that will be available very soon. No contact with the teeth, uses 6 screws and will not bend for optimal expansion. You should use this device. It should fix your breathing issues

You dont need to do mse twice you just need to continually expand and contract to keep the sutures loose so you can keep pulling forward. To much expansion is not ideal I think because it will fill out hallow cheeks and will start to make the base of your nose too wide. What you want is the most forward movement usually.

When will it be available exactly? Is there a specific person I should go to?

 

[AlmostPerfect]

When will it be available exactly? Is there a specific person I should go to?

there will be multiple dr including ting. Im not sure exactly but could be as soon as a month.

 

[randomvanish]

wtf is FM ?

 

[Deleted member 12071]

There is a new a better version of the mse that will be available very soon. No contact with the teeth, uses 6 screws and will not bend for optimal expansion. You should use this device. It should fix your breathing issues

You dont need to do mse twice you just need to continually expand and contract to keep the sutures loose so you can keep pulling forward. To much expansion is not ideal I think because it will fill out hallow cheeks and will start to make the base of your nose too wide. What you want is the most forward movement usually.

How is this new MSE model called?

 

[mvp2v1]

How is this new MSE model called?

I asked Ronald Ed from JawHacks about this and he said that there are other models of the MSE floating around and being used by people like Dr. Ilya Lipkin, (6 screws). I don't know much info about those other versions though.

 

[anticel]

There is a new a better version of the mse that will be available very soon. No contact with the teeth, uses 6 screws and will not bend for optimal expansion. You should use this device. It should fix your breathing issues

You dont need to do mse twice you just need to continually expand and contract to keep the sutures loose so you can keep pulling forward. To much expansion is not ideal I think because it will fill out hallow cheeks and will start to make the base of your nose too wide. What you want is the most forward movement usually.

can u elaborate? what is it called?

 

[anticel]

a

 

[Deleted member 2729]

Mse is only good if you need it. Very easy to fuck up your harmony. Also after you go through it once I doubt you'd want to do a second time it's not fun

Can I dm you pics to evaluate if I need mse?

 

[ChristianChad]

deviated septum

fix this immediately

also can you get ortho treatment via insurence for your sleep apnea?

 

[mvp2v1]

Can I dm you pics to evaluate if I need mse?

why dont u just go for an actual consult from a pro. they are often free.

 

[mvp2v1]

fix this immediately

also can you get ortho treatment via insurence for your sleep apnea?

I was going to fix it towards the end of my looksmaxing. is this a bad idea?

 

[Deleted member 2729]

why dont u just go for an actual consult from a pro. they are often free.

What pro I only know bimax surgeons

 

[mvp2v1]

What pro I only know bimax surgeons

MSE Provider List | msebywonmoon

www

www.moonmse.com

 

[Deleted member 2729]

MSE Provider List | msebywonmoon

www

www.moonmse.com

Do they have online consultations? Also how do I know they don't just want to sell their services to me

 

[mvp2v1]

Do they have online consultations? Also how do I know they don't just want to sell their services to me

obv they will be trying to sell you. but they also are under the orthodontic board or whatever so they cant lie to you. or they shouldnt. ya try getting online consult.

 

[ChristianChad]

MSE+FM is a meme. I already did it to evaluate it. Barely helped with breathing issues. Its nice once you get the split but thats mostly due to the teeth obstruction, you'll eventually have to close the gap. Breathing issues are usually due to downswining of the face more than nasal volume.

Only worth it if you have subhuman IMW.

that seems to be a theme with MSE, not effectively improving breathing/sleep apnea. i guess it doesnt always have effective paranasal expansion. it also seems to sometimes have more of a dental effect then a skeletal effect or very minimal skeletal effect, sadly (meaning the expansion is mostly dental rather then skeletal).
I wonder if you can predict this with a good Ortho, or something. I may get MSE because I need dental expansion but it would be a big bonus to get the skeletal effects as well on cheekbones etc. so I don't mess up harmony.

How old were you when you had MSE + FM?
Thanks

but isn't it the only non surgical way that isn't implants or fillers to pull the upper part of the maxilla forward? I am maybe the least suitable candidate for MSE and FM tho: overjet, wide enough palate, zygos wider than gonions and temples, good pfl and ipd, wide as fuck nose, face asymmetry. Still, I know an ortho who could make my mse and facemask and mount them for so much less than this treatment goes for usually.

you could get it get it but then mess up your bite. if you have cash to spare you could possibly do Bimax after the treatment or BSSO or IMDO or something.
But don't expect much skeletal effect, it'll only just loosen the sutures so facemask could work (assuming it'll even be possible), doing this via expanding just enough to loosen (break/ ? ) them but basically getting not expansion

what country are you from btw? Thanks.

 

[Deleted member 2729]

obv they will be trying to sell you. but they also are under the orthodontic board or whatever so they cant lie to you. or they shouldnt. ya try getting online consult.

Is it free online?

 

[mvp2v1]

that seems to be a theme with MSE, not effectively improving breathing/sleep apnea. i guess it doesnt always have effective paranasal expansion. it also seems to sometimes have more of a dental effect then a skeletal effect or very minimal skeletal effect, sadly (meaning the expansion is mostly dental rather then skeletal).
I wonder if you can predict this with a good Ortho, or something. I may get MSE because I need dental expansion but it would be a big bonus to get the skeletal effects as well on cheekbones etc. so I don't mess up harmony.

How old were you when you had MSE + FM?
Thanks

you could get it get it but then mess up your bite. if you have cash to spare you could possibly do Bimax after the treatment or BSSO or IMDO or something.
But don't expect much skeletal effect, it'll only just loosen the sutures so facemask could work (assuming it'll even be possible), doing this via expanding just enough to loosen (break/ ? ) them but basically getting not expansion

what country are you from btw? Thanks.

MSE does provide visible changes. the question is if they are aesthetically pleasing. And also MSE+FM does work there are posts here from people who had success with it: https://looksmax.org/threads/mse-fm-success-imdo-next-need-help.487910/

Does MSE/MARPE really make the face wider?

Yes it does. It does exactly this. Mirin cognitive dissonance at me destroying copes Im so confused bc just a couple months ago u were recommending mse and all that but itt you're a different beast also my plan with mse was to combine it with forward protraction of the maxila and distraciton...

looksmax.org

If you want to understand why MSE may not be best palate expander understand the nature of palate expansion: https://looksmax.org/threads/maxilla-palate-expansion.118243/

 

[ChristianChad]

MSE does provide visible changes. the question is if they are aesthetically pleasing. And also MSE+FM does work there are posts here from people who had success with it: https://looksmax.org/threads/mse-fm-success-imdo-next-need-help.487910/

Does MSE/MARPE really make the face wider?

Yes it does. It does exactly this. Mirin cognitive dissonance at me destroying copes Im so confused bc just a couple months ago u were recommending mse and all that but itt you're a different beast also my plan with mse was to combine it with forward protraction of the maxila and distraciton...

looksmax.org

If you want to understand why MSE may not be best palate expander understand the nature of palate expansion: https://looksmax.org/threads/maxilla-palate-expansion.118243/

Thank for links friend, will read all later.

MSE does provide visible changes.

it CAN but it doesn't always result in increased zygo distance, eye distance or whatever else the possible skeletal effects on the midface are; and thats what i meant, not everybody get this but some do. expansion results arent consistent in this aspect. hell it isnt even always consistent in whether you split the sutures or not.

 

[Deleted member 8988]

that seems to be a theme with MSE, not effectively improving breathing/sleep apnea. i guess it doesnt always have effective paranasal expansion. it also seems to sometimes have more of a dental effect then a skeletal effect or very minimal skeletal effect, sadly (meaning the expansion is mostly dental rather then skeletal).
I wonder if you can predict this with a good Ortho, or something. I may get MSE because I need dental expansion but it would be a big bonus to get the skeletal effects as well on cheekbones etc. so I don't mess up harmony.

How old were you when you had MSE + FM?
Thanks

you could get it get it but then mess up your bite. if you have cash to spare you could possibly do Bimax after the treatment or BSSO or IMDO or something.
But don't expect much skeletal effect, it'll only just loosen the sutures so facemask could work (assuming it'll even be possible), doing this via expanding just enough to loosen (break/ ? ) them but basically getting not expansion

what country are you from btw? Thanks.

I have seen some MSE + facemask results and even if the change is allegedly there it's barely visible. I think the results are too low if you are over 20. The sutures will open too late so facemask can't make a considerable difference.
I will consider under eye fat grafting or infraorbital-malar implants. MSE + facemask might be 5x to 10x cheaper in my case but it's not worth it. My palate could be wider to make room for my wisdom teeth but oh well.
I had planned to get bimax or even better, BSSO, after the mse+fm treatment btw. Otherwise not only that the malocclusion will be brutal, but the chances of relapse are huge. I don't have the money for BSSO yet and locally I have to wait in a long line and it would be hard to plan and do everything in time.

I'm from Romania.

 

[Agendum]

that seems to be a theme with MSE, not effectively improving breathing/sleep apnea. i guess it doesnt always have effective paranasal expansion. it also seems to sometimes have more of a dental effect then a skeletal effect or very minimal skeletal effect, sadly (meaning the expansion is mostly dental rather then skeletal).
I wonder if you can predict this with a good Ortho, or something. I may get MSE because I need dental expansion but it would be a big bonus to get the skeletal effects as well on cheekbones etc. so I don't mess up harmony.

How old were you when you had MSE + FM?
Thanks

you could get it get it but then mess up your bite. if you have cash to spare you could possibly do Bimax after the treatment or BSSO or IMDO or something.
But don't expect much skeletal effect, it'll only just loosen the sutures so facemask could work (assuming it'll even be possible), doing this via expanding just enough to loosen (break/ ? ) them but basically getting not expansion

what country are you from btw? Thanks.

its use would only really be for subhuman IMW. It does have skeletal changes but they arent really useful for looksmaxxing. Its better used for functional purposes.

I got it at 28 yo, I had a subhuman IMW at 32mm

 

[mvp2v1]

I have seen some MSE + facemask results and even if the change is allegedly there it's barely visible. I think the results are too low if you are over 20. The sutures will open too late so facemask can't make a considerable difference.
I will consider under eye fat grafting or infraorbital-malar implants. MSE + facemask might be 5x to 10x cheaper in my case but it's not worth it. My palate could be wider to make room for my wisdom teeth but oh well.
I had planned to get bimax or even better, BSSO, after the mse+fm treatment btw. Otherwise not only that the malocclusion will be brutal, but the chances of relapse are huge. I don't have the money for BSSO yet and locally I have to wait in a long line and it would be hard to plan and do everything in time.

I'm from Romania.

hmm well im going to try it anyway. I have spoken to some practitioners who use BOW in adults. and some I had consulted with showed me some really great results as far as forward growth. And consider that all these people are just normies who dont go the extra mile by using gh and other supplemental techniques. I dont think its so clear yet if mse+fm is a dud. I will give it a good shot and go for a dog face. ill post about the results when i get it. If you dedicated I think you can get fantastic results. but very few are autistic enough. regardless there is always lefort 3 + lower jaw osteo as a fall back. Even though it will never be as good as the natural look.

.......||
....../ \

 

[Deleted member 8988]

hmm well im going to try it anyway. I have spoken to some practitioners who use BOW in adults. and some I had consulted with showed me some really great results as far as forward growth. And consider that all these people are just normies who dont go the extra mile by using gh and other supplemental techniques. I dont think its so clear yet if mse+fm is a dud. I will give it a good shot and go for a dog face. ill post about the results when i get it. If you dedicated I think you can get fantastic results. but very few are autistic enough. regardless there is always lefort 3 + lower jaw osteo as a fall back. Even though it will never be as good as the natural look.

.......||
....../ \

I mean I would have definitely considered it and probably went for it if not for the drawbacks that come with mse: increased asymmetry, wider nose base, IPD widening ( bad in my case ), zygo widening ( bad in my case ). I believe the results you can get largely depend on not so obvious factors, like the force you pull your maxilla with, the supplements and peptides you take and the time of the treatment. If I had good internet connection I would try to find the reddit post of a 20 and something yrs old guy who barely got any changes from mse+fm forward growth wise. For that result I bet there is another great one ( pm me please if you can ).
I wish you all the best in your journey, and I wish I could follow you. MSE+FM might not be the holy grail to adult maxillary expansion but is the best non surgical thing we have imo. Fillers and implants cause many issues like bone resorption and aren't permanent.

 

[anticel]

fix this immediately

also can you get ortho treatment via insurence for your sleep apnea?

fix deviated septum first or get mse first?

 

[ChristianChad]

fix deviated septum first or get mse first?

I don't know, septum would be my guess

 

[Bobelbrah]

There is a new a better version of the mse that will be available very soon. No contact with the teeth, uses 6 screws and will not bend for optimal expansion.

What is this device called?

 

[Tasty17]

Probably much better to do EASE because it not only splits the ANS but also the PNS, thus you achieve symmetric expansion.

MSE is only capable of splitting the ANS, giving you an asymmetrical cone-shaped split. This makes expanding with MSE inefficient, asymmetric and not fully skeletal (only about 50%) while EASE is almost 100% skeletal.

More about it here:

 

[Tasty17]

there will be multiple dr including ting. Im not sure exactly but could be as soon as a month.

Does the new version also cause a split in the PNS, thus we finally get symmetric expansion?

 

[mvp2v1]

Probably much better to do EASE because it not only splits the ANS but also the PNS, thus you achieve symmetric expansion.

MSE is only capable of splitting the ANS, giving you an asymmetrical cone-shaped split. This makes expanding with MSE inefficient, asymmetric and not fully skeletal (only about 50%) while EASE is almost 100% skeletal.

More about it here:

issue is that there are few providers and no way to hook a facemask.

 

[mvp2v1]

Does the new version also cause a split in the PNS, thus we finally get symmetric expansion?

what is PNS? and cant you simply split the mid suture surgically before implanting the MSE

 

[Tasty17]

what is PNS? and cant you simply split the mid suture surgically before implanting the MSE

He explains it well in the video and shows scans for better understanding.

 

[AlmostPerfect]

What is this device called?

The company is called Facegenics https://facegenics.com

 

[AlmostPerfect]

issue is that there are few providers and no way to hook a facemask.

Facegenics is coming out with a next level protraction device. It will hopefully be ready by November.

 

[mvp2v1]

@noprogressno

 

[mvp2v1]

The company is called Facegenics https://facegenics.com

https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/facegenics

 

[mvp2v1]

next level protraction device

How will it compare to BOW?

 

[AlmostPerfect]

Does the new version also cause a split in the PNS, thus we finally get symmetric expansion?

Yes the device only anchors to the bone with no teeth contact and is ideally done with a corticotomy down the entire palatine suture just like Dr Li is doing.

 

[AlmostPerfect]

How will it compare to BOW?

100x better. Its anchored to your body instead of your chin and forhead

 

[Tasty17]

Yes the device only anchors to the bone with no teeth contact and is ideally done with a corticotomy down the entire palatine suture just like Dr Li is doing.

Sounds amazing, where have you heard of it? When will it release?

 

[AlmostPerfect]

Sounds amazing, where have you heard of it? When will it release?

I know the guy who started the company. Hopefully in a month or two

 

[mvp2v1]

I know the guy who started the company. Hopefully in a month or two

I feel like this is a just 2 more weeks situation. Like with thrombo

 

[noprogressno]

I feel like this is a just 2 more weeks situation. Like with thrombo

Well I feel the same about this device tbh. This thing was supposed to come out 2 months ago. Plus we don't have any evidence that it is anchored to the body instead of getting support from chin and forehead anyways. My mind cannot register a protraction device that doesn't get support from chin or forehead, for protraction the device is supposed to get that support from somewhere you know?... Anyways if @AlmostPerfect were to upload some sort of prototype of the supposed device, explaining how this would be better than a normal MARPE + some sort of facemask, only then I would get my hopes up a little bit. Other than that I think this is a second trombo situation as well