Facial Depth - Defined

[Acne Victim]

Just lol at a thread of this quality not being on BOTB but some giga cope horrible ones filled with pseudoscience bs being there.

@Alexanderr

@Alexanderr good to see my extremely intelligent opinion to include this extremely knowledgeable thread from an extremely smart user on BOTB.

 

[Lookologist003]

This thread is like a juicy pizza that we've been waiting for. Greatly simplified concept that regards more of the skull.
Nice work.

 

[zipzam]

Facial Depth is basically a refined version Forward Growth theory. While some people might say water is wet, this updated theory explains why many midface implant designs look fake and stuck-on, and why “Modified LeFort 3” (often abbreviated MLF3) has almost no chance of creating an extremely aesthetic face.
View attachment 2039450
View attachment 2039436
Here is how I separate and categorize facial depth.

Certain landmarks are constant and can’t be changed like the external auditory meatus, tragus, anterior/posterior positioning of the eyes, neck and to some extent the hyoid bone. These are the constant reference marks. Everything else can be moved forward with the properly modified surgeries.

It’s my opinion that the most overlooked subcategory of facial depth is anterior facial depth which is projection or retrusion in the LeFort 2 region. It’s probably the area which sets apart average people from beautiful people the most.

Anterior Facial Depth
(The projection of the central midface off the posterior midface and is enhanced through LeFort 2 Osteotomy)
View attachment 2039438
View attachment 2039439

Posterior Facial Depth
The projection of the entire face as a unit from the rest of the skull and corrected by a LeFort 3 Advancement or implants informed by the LeFort 3 Concept.
View attachment 2039443
View attachment 2039444

When all of the subcategories of facial depth are sufficiently projecting the face fits into a square shape:

View attachment 2039446
View attachment 2039447View attachment 2039448View attachment 2039449

Adding facial depth with a true LeFort II or III that goes up and over the nose can give a very powerful yet natural looking result. So-called ‘Modified’ LeFort 3 and LeFort 2 Osteotomies which leave out the nose and nasion can’t do this any better than custom implants can. Therefore it should never be utilized except in the implant-phobic.
View attachment 2039455
The main aesthetic problem with a non-syndrome LeFort II is the medial canthus is usually pulled too forward, off the eyeball. In the past this has required medial canthus setback procedure with a trans-nasal wire which is not natural appearing and only belongs in syndrome craniofacial surgery. However LeFort 2 can be modified to be in front of the medial canthus and lacrimal system as I did here:
View attachment 2039466

If you don’t want LeFort 2 or LeFort 3 I have found it possible to apply this concept to my implant designs after a LeFort 1 Osteotomy. How much depends on the advancement of the LF1. I have had success balancing faces after “over-advanced” bimaxes (LACOMS strikes again! Barcelona Line strikes again!) with specially designed custom implants.

View attachment 2039458

This is just one of many concepts that just about all custom implant designs & Orthognathic surgery plans never take into account, unless by accident. (Custom Implants are almost always designed by engineers at big companies who don’t know aesthetics. Meanwhile most surgeons don’t know 3D design engineering. It’s almost never the surgeon literally designing the implant - implants are just designed under their supervision/approval.)

That’s quite a bit of detail for a concept I have gatekept strictly for my own clients for about 2 years. More information about highly-modified Craniofacial surgery available on instagram @unicorn.CMF (professional page) and @Giant.Implants (educational meme page)

Bonesmashing go bang

 

[Pei]

Facial Depth is basically a refined version Forward Growth theory. While some people might say water is wet, this updated theory explains why many midface implant designs look fake and stuck-on, and why “Modified LeFort 3” (often abbreviated MLF3) has almost no chance of creating an extremely aesthetic face.
View attachment 2039450
View attachment 2039436
Here is how I separate and categorize facial depth.

Certain landmarks are constant and can’t be changed like the external auditory meatus, tragus, anterior/posterior positioning of the eyes, neck and to some extent the hyoid bone. These are the constant reference marks. Everything else can be moved forward with the properly modified surgeries.

It’s my opinion that the most overlooked subcategory of facial depth is anterior facial depth which is projection or retrusion in the LeFort 2 region. It’s probably the area which sets apart average people from beautiful people the most.

Anterior Facial Depth
(The projection of the central midface off the posterior midface and is enhanced through LeFort 2 Osteotomy)
View attachment 2039438
View attachment 2039439

Posterior Facial Depth
The projection of the entire face as a unit from the rest of the skull and corrected by a LeFort 3 Advancement or implants informed by the LeFort 3 Concept.
View attachment 2039443
View attachment 2039444

When all of the subcategories of facial depth are sufficiently projecting the face fits into a square shape:

View attachment 2039446
View attachment 2039447View attachment 2039448View attachment 2039449

Adding facial depth with a true LeFort II or III that goes up and over the nose can give a very powerful yet natural looking result. So-called ‘Modified’ LeFort 3 and LeFort 2 Osteotomies which leave out the nose and nasion can’t do this any better than custom implants can. Therefore it should never be utilized except in the implant-phobic.
View attachment 2039455
The main aesthetic problem with a non-syndrome LeFort II is the medial canthus is usually pulled too forward, off the eyeball. In the past this has required medial canthus setback procedure with a trans-nasal wire which is not natural appearing and only belongs in syndrome craniofacial surgery. However LeFort 2 can be modified to be in front of the medial canthus and lacrimal system as I did here:
View attachment 2039466

If you don’t want LeFort 2 or LeFort 3 I have found it possible to apply this concept to my implant designs after a LeFort 1 Osteotomy. How much depends on the advancement of the LF1. I have had success balancing faces after “over-advanced” bimaxes (LACOMS strikes again! Barcelona Line strikes again!) with specially designed custom implants.

View attachment 2039458

This is just one of many concepts that just about all custom implant designs & Orthognathic surgery plans never take into account, unless by accident. (Custom Implants are almost always designed by engineers at big companies who don’t know aesthetics. Meanwhile most surgeons don’t know 3D design engineering. It’s almost never the surgeon literally designing the implant - implants are just designed under their supervision/approval.)

That’s quite a bit of detail for a concept I have gatekept strictly for my own clients for about 2 years. More information about highly-modified Craniofacial surgery available on instagram @unicorn.CMF (professional page) and @Giant.Implants (educational meme page)

this picture helped me understand more, this medieval peasant guy has retrusion hence the shallow eye sockets

can you explain more in detail why it is ugly and dysgenic and we see it as wrong if you’re maxilla isn’t long enough

 

[Pei]

This thread is like a juicy pizza that we've been waiting for. Greatly simplified concept that regards more of the skull.
Nice work.

I wish he would go into more detail already since there’s zero other sources on the internet

 

[YoungWerther]

If you don’t want LeFort 2 or LeFort 3 I have found it possible to apply this concept to my implant designs after a LeFort 1 Osteotomy. How much depends on the advancement of the LF1. I have had success balancing faces after “over-advanced” bimaxes (LACOMS strikes again! Barcelona Line strikes again!) with specially designed custom implants.

What's your general take on LACOMS' work? Asking because they seem to be my most accessible option rn in terms of cost (less than Gunson), proximity (I'm in Southern California) etc. Would it be a serviceable option to go with them ostensibly to fix any functionality issues, and pursue implants somewhere else later, or would you avoid them altogether?

 

[orthochadic]

@RealSurgerymax

Really good Thread !

What are your thoughts about the orthotropics term : cheek line as shown by the picture...
It seems like downward growth can actually deepen the lefort II as nose is more strongly attached to the forehead than cheecks and philtrum , thus falling less backward than the rest in many cases resulting in a birdcell look.
For that reason modified oblique lefort III could still be a nice surgery, especially because it moves the cheeks and ans up and forward,
and in the after results of its famous study, cheek lines were quite parallel (don't know if they were focusing on that or not) .
(2ND PICTURE ATTACHED HERE) , and link of the sudy :

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5328863/.

Also, instead of trimming the maxilla floor, you or sergio oms said that it's possible instead to trim the nasal carthilage, resulting in a shorter looking nose.

So i guess : the exact movement resulting in a parallel cheekline would also bring cheeks height and nose height where they should naturally be in someone skull right ? (So basically unless having a vertically elongated temporal bone like a deformed baby, we would all be fine looking in the end using that design right ?) The new cheeks height would then give a natural looking result to cat eye surgery as they would be in harmony with the new canthal tilt. High cheeks and and PCT are also a highly appreciated traits as shown by the 3rd pic. Also, the nose would be straightend from the ans moving up and forward...

Wether you're strong or cute, thoses things are all importants, especially if you got money and balls to get through big surgeries.
Then why not trying to get everything in the most easy way ?

Considering all of that, would Modifed Oblique lefort III be considered as a Complementary Procedure with the Original lefort III that brings everything forward, for downard grown nosecells ?

So lefort III and Forehead implants would only be for cute looking men somehow as the shape can be fully fixed by a bluepilled modified oblique lefort III (blue pilled due to the nasal carthilage trimming and the focusing on the cheekline), and thus lefort III and Forehead implant are here to make the whole face more mature while keeping it's aquired shape .

 

[inwardgonionscel]

How do you even have overly wide cheekbones unless you lack face height or got MSE?

I do have overly wide cheekbones naturally, but i think my temples make them seem even wider

 

[BrahminBoss]

I do have overly wide cheekbones naturally, but i think my temples make them seem even wider

Fuck narrow neucranium is so shit always have long hair bro you guys can never run short hair

 

[Pumanator]

Thank you for the guide. One of the best guides here. Sadly one that is hard to fix. Can you give a rough estimations how much the surgeries and implants would cost?

 

[inwardgonionscel]

Fuck narrow neucranium is so shit always have long hair bro you guys can never run short hair

Bro i have atrocious hair, temple hair recessed naturally at 15, dull damaged hair and it just can't grow well some places are thin and others not it's over bro.. Can i send you a pic of me for advice ?

 

[BrahminBoss]

Bro i have atrocious hair, temple hair recessed naturally at 15, dull damaged hair and it just can't grow well some places are thin and others not it's over bro.. Can i send you a pic of me for advice ?

ok

 

[inwardgonionscel]

Fuck narrow neucranium is so shit always have long hair bro you guys can never run short hair

ok

No wonder i have never been loved in my life with that peanut head, not even my dad loves me unironnicly, 15 btw (over)

 

[BrahminBoss]

No wonder i have never been loved in my life with that peanut head, not even my dad loves me unironnicly, 15 btw (over)

You look fine, like a better looking version of vegan gains. Wait for puberty and bones to grow. Meanwhile do things to improve skin tone and let your hair grow. and obviously lift weights.

 

[inwardgonionscel]

You look fine, like a better looking version of vegan gains. Wait for puberty and bones to grow. Meanwhile do things to improve skin tone and let your hair grow. and obviously lift weights.

Lifefuel to hear this but you sure i'm not subhuman ? Bro i swear people at school act like they see the biggest of subhumans ever when they see me specially foids maybe that's why i have never been really happy since kindergarten.

 

[BrahminBoss]

Lifefuel to hear this but you sure i'm not subhuman ? Bro i swear people at school act like they see the biggest of subhumans ever when they see me specially foids maybe that's why i have never been really happy since kindergarten.

you need puberty to ascend u, u arent subhuman just a normal dude. You need to darken your hair and eyebrows, get better skin and skin tone , thicker neck etc etc.. youre only 15 my bones only came in at 21

 

[inwardgonionscel]

You look fine, like a better looking version of vegan gains. Wait for puberty and bones to grow. Meanwhile do things to improve skin tone and let your hair grow. and obviously lift weights.

What can i do for skintone ? Beta caroten and msm.. stack for skin lightning ? I'm done growing because i had early puberty, asked the doctor about facial bones and he said i have less facial growth potential than other kids my age what do you think ?

 

[inwardgonionscel]

you need puberty to ascend u, u arent subhuman just a normal dude. You need to darken your hair and eyebrows, get better skin and skin tone , thicker neck etc etc.. youre only 15 my bones only came in at 21

Your whole lower third is done growing at 19 bro and did your browridge grow i have no fucking browridge also i forgot to tell you i'm non NT high innib 400ng/dl test at almost peak puberty i ain't gonna grow no fucking browridge with this test level

 

[Deleted member 24770]

Posterior Facial Depth
The projection of the entire face as a unit from the rest of the skull and corrected by a LeFort 3 Advancement or implants informed by the LeFort 3 Concept.

How am i recessed posterior with high and wide cheekbones can u tell me, many people said im a lf3 patient before jfl

 

[Deleted member 24770]

Would love to read a thread from you about cheekbone reduction combined with custom implants, for people that has overly wide cheekbones but still lacks anterior projection and has recessed undereyes. There's literally nothing wrote about this by someone with proper knowledge.

exactly my question jfl

 

[Pei]

 

[LooxmaxxingM]

View attachment 2039625
Well I failed the square test brutally.

Is it anterior depth I lack? And have I understood the layers correctly?
View attachment 2039629

not that bad but if posterior was longer u will have a better face projection

 

[Pei]

Facial Depth is basically a refined version Forward Growth theory. While some people might say water is wet, this updated theory explains why many midface implant designs look fake and stuck-on, and why “Modified LeFort 3” (often abbreviated MLF3) has almost no chance of creating an extremely aesthetic face.
View attachment 2039450
View attachment 2039436
Here is how I separate and categorize facial depth.

Certain landmarks are constant and can’t be changed like the external auditory meatus, tragus, anterior/posterior positioning of the eyes, neck and to some extent the hyoid bone. These are the constant reference marks. Everything else can be moved forward with the properly modified surgeries.

It’s my opinion that the most overlooked subcategory of facial depth is anterior facial depth which is projection or retrusion in the LeFort 2 region. It’s probably the area which sets apart average people from beautiful people the most.

Anterior Facial Depth
(The projection of the central midface off the posterior midface and is enhanced through LeFort 2 Osteotomy)
View attachment 2039438
View attachment 2039439

Posterior Facial Depth
The projection of the entire face as a unit from the rest of the skull and corrected by a LeFort 3 Advancement or implants informed by the LeFort 3 Concept.
View attachment 2039443
View attachment 2039444

When all of the subcategories of facial depth are sufficiently projecting the face fits into a square shape:

View attachment 2039446
View attachment 2039447View attachment 2039448View attachment 2039449

Adding facial depth with a true LeFort II or III that goes up and over the nose can give a very powerful yet natural looking result. So-called ‘Modified’ LeFort 3 and LeFort 2 Osteotomies which leave out the nose and nasion can’t do this any better than custom implants can. Therefore it should never be utilized except in the implant-phobic.
View attachment 2039455
The main aesthetic problem with a non-syndrome LeFort II is the medial canthus is usually pulled too forward, off the eyeball. In the past this has required medial canthus setback procedure with a trans-nasal wire which is not natural appearing and only belongs in syndrome craniofacial surgery. However LeFort 2 can be modified to be in front of the medial canthus and lacrimal system as I did here:
View attachment 2039466

If you don’t want LeFort 2 or LeFort 3 I have found it possible to apply this concept to my implant designs after a LeFort 1 Osteotomy. How much depends on the advancement of the LF1. I have had success balancing faces after “over-advanced” bimaxes (LACOMS strikes again! Barcelona Line strikes again!) with specially designed custom implants.

View attachment 2039458

This is just one of many concepts that just about all custom implant designs & Orthognathic surgery plans never take into account, unless by accident. (Custom Implants are almost always designed by engineers at big companies who don’t know aesthetics. Meanwhile most surgeons don’t know 3D design engineering. It’s almost never the surgeon literally designing the implant - implants are just designed under their supervision/approval.)

That’s quite a bit of detail for a concept I have gatekept strictly for my own clients for about 2 years. More information about highly-modified Craniofacial surgery available on instagram @unicorn.CMF (professional page) and @Giant.Implants (educational meme page)

Why no mention of undereye support, there’s people with forward maxillas yet they don’t look special. It’s a combination of two things tbh

 

[DerangedLunatic]

Facial Depth is basically a refined version Forward Growth theory. While some people might say water is wet, this updated theory explains why many midface implant designs look fake and stuck-on, and why “Modified LeFort 3” (often abbreviated MLF3) has almost no chance of creating an extremely aesthetic face.
View attachment 2039450
View attachment 2039436
Here is how I separate and categorize facial depth.

Certain landmarks are constant and can’t be changed like the external auditory meatus, tragus, anterior/posterior positioning of the eyes, neck and to some extent the hyoid bone. These are the constant reference marks. Everything else can be moved forward with the properly modified surgeries.

It’s my opinion that the most overlooked subcategory of facial depth is anterior facial depth which is projection or retrusion in the LeFort 2 region. It’s probably the area which sets apart average people from beautiful people the most.

Anterior Facial Depth
(The projection of the central midface off the posterior midface and is enhanced through LeFort 2 Osteotomy)
View attachment 2039438
View attachment 2039439

Posterior Facial Depth
The projection of the entire face as a unit from the rest of the skull and corrected by a LeFort 3 Advancement or implants informed by the LeFort 3 Concept.
View attachment 2039443
View attachment 2039444

When all of the subcategories of facial depth are sufficiently projecting the face fits into a square shape:

View attachment 2039446
View attachment 2039447View attachment 2039448View attachment 2039449

Adding facial depth with a true LeFort II or III that goes up and over the nose can give a very powerful yet natural looking result. So-called ‘Modified’ LeFort 3 and LeFort 2 Osteotomies which leave out the nose and nasion can’t do this any better than custom implants can. Therefore it should never be utilized except in the implant-phobic.
View attachment 2039455
The main aesthetic problem with a non-syndrome LeFort II is the medial canthus is usually pulled too forward, off the eyeball. In the past this has required medial canthus setback procedure with a trans-nasal wire which is not natural appearing and only belongs in syndrome craniofacial surgery. However LeFort 2 can be modified to be in front of the medial canthus and lacrimal system as I did here:
View attachment 2039466

If you don’t want LeFort 2 or LeFort 3 I have found it possible to apply this concept to my implant designs after a LeFort 1 Osteotomy. How much depends on the advancement of the LF1. I have had success balancing faces after “over-advanced” bimaxes (LACOMS strikes again! Barcelona Line strikes again!) with specially designed custom implants.

View attachment 2039458

This is just one of many concepts that just about all custom implant designs & Orthognathic surgery plans never take into account, unless by accident. (Custom Implants are almost always designed by engineers at big companies who don’t know aesthetics. Meanwhile most surgeons don’t know 3D design engineering. It’s almost never the surgeon literally designing the implant - implants are just designed under their supervision/approval.)

That’s quite a bit of detail for a concept I have gatekept strictly for my own clients for about 2 years. More information about highly-modified Craniofacial surgery available on instagram @unicorn.CMF (professional page) and @Giant.Implants (educational meme page)

Whites are genetically recessed

 

[Ruakh]

dnr

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Lifefuel for my crocodile tier skull with 1.20 facial depth ratio

 

[Deleted member 43403]

Lifefuel for my crocodile tier skull with 1.20 facial depth ratio

How did you even measure that accurately

 

[NegativeNorwood]

How did you even measure that accurately

Non lens distorted, unfrauded side profile picture + draw a box that goes from tragus to nose tip, with the height being hairline to bottom of the chin. Divide height/depth and there you get the result. The closer to 1 the better . Example of top tier facial depth (1.26 ratio):

 

[Deleted member 43403]

Non lens distorted, unfrauded side profile picture + draw a box that goes from tragus to nose tip, with the height being hairline to bottom of the chin. Divide height/depth and there you get the result. The closer to 1 the better . Example of top tier facial depth (1.26 ratio):

View attachment 2536165

Will Jutting Have An Effect On It? I'm Too High Bf% To Find My Chin

I Got 1.2925764192139

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Will Jutting Have An Effect On It? I'm Too High Bf% To Find My Chin

I Got 1.2925764192139

Don't jut jfl, it won't affect shit anyways

 

[Deleted member 43403]

Don't jut jfl

Can You Post An Example of a guy with same Facial Depth Pwease

 

[Deleted member 43403]

Don't jut jfl, it won't affect shit anyways

Lifefuel I Got 1.288 Without Jutting

 

[NegativeNorwood]

Can You Post An Example of a guy with same Facial Depth Pwease

Already did above

Lifefuel I Got 1.288 Without Jutting

Good for you!

 

[suslov]

Is Le fort 2 the only way to fix lack of anterior facial depth? I heard that le fort 2 and 3 have more risk of complications as well as suboptimal results

 

[soover4me]

Facial Depth is basically a refined version Forward Growth theory. While some people might say water is wet, this updated theory explains why many midface implant designs look fake and stuck-on, and why “Modified LeFort 3” (often abbreviated MLF3) has almost no chance of creating an extremely aesthetic face.
View attachment 2039450
View attachment 2039436
Here is how I separate and categorize facial depth.

Certain landmarks are constant and can’t be changed like the external auditory meatus, tragus, anterior/posterior positioning of the eyes, neck and to some extent the hyoid bone. These are the constant reference marks. Everything else can be moved forward with the properly modified surgeries.

It’s my opinion that the most overlooked subcategory of facial depth is anterior facial depth which is projection or retrusion in the LeFort 2 region. It’s probably the area which sets apart average people from beautiful people the most.

Anterior Facial Depth
(The projection of the central midface off the posterior midface and is enhanced through LeFort 2 Osteotomy)
View attachment 2039438
View attachment 2039439

Posterior Facial Depth
The projection of the entire face as a unit from the rest of the skull and corrected by a LeFort 3 Advancement or implants informed by the LeFort 3 Concept.
View attachment 2039443
View attachment 2039444

When all of the subcategories of facial depth are sufficiently projecting the face fits into a square shape:

View attachment 2039446
View attachment 2039447View attachment 2039448View attachment 2039449

Adding facial depth with a true LeFort II or III that goes up and over the nose can give a very powerful yet natural looking result. So-called ‘Modified’ LeFort 3 and LeFort 2 Osteotomies which leave out the nose and nasion can’t do this any better than custom implants can. Therefore it should never be utilized except in the implant-phobic.
View attachment 2039455
The main aesthetic problem with a non-syndrome LeFort II is the medial canthus is usually pulled too forward, off the eyeball. In the past this has required medial canthus setback procedure with a trans-nasal wire which is not natural appearing and only belongs in syndrome craniofacial surgery. However LeFort 2 can be modified to be in front of the medial canthus and lacrimal system as I did here:
View attachment 2039466

If you don’t want LeFort 2 or LeFort 3 I have found it possible to apply this concept to my implant designs after a LeFort 1 Osteotomy. How much depends on the advancement of the LF1. I have had success balancing faces after “over-advanced” bimaxes (LACOMS strikes again! Barcelona Line strikes again!) with specially designed custom implants.

View attachment 2039458

This is just one of many concepts that just about all custom implant designs & Orthognathic surgery plans never take into account, unless by accident. (Custom Implants are almost always designed by engineers at big companies who don’t know aesthetics. Meanwhile most surgeons don’t know 3D design engineering. It’s almost never the surgeon literally designing the implant - implants are just designed under their supervision/approval.)

That’s quite a bit of detail for a concept I have gatekept strictly for my own clients for about 2 years. More information about highly-modified Craniofacial surgery available on instagram @unicorn.CMF (professional page) and @Giant.Implants (educational meme page)

Great post, bookmarked

 

[Johan_Swanepoel]

Facial Depth is basically a refined version Forward Growth theory. While some people might say water is wet, this updated theory explains why many midface implant designs look fake and stuck-on, and why “Modified LeFort 3” (often abbreviated MLF3) has almost no chance of creating an extremely aesthetic face.
View attachment 2039450
View attachment 2039436
Here is how I separate and categorize facial depth.

Certain landmarks are constant and can’t be changed like the external auditory meatus, tragus, anterior/posterior positioning of the eyes, neck and to some extent the hyoid bone. These are the constant reference marks. Everything else can be moved forward with the properly modified surgeries.

It’s my opinion that the most overlooked subcategory of facial depth is anterior facial depth which is projection or retrusion in the LeFort 2 region. It’s probably the area which sets apart average people from beautiful people the most.

Anterior Facial Depth
(The projection of the central midface off the posterior midface and is enhanced through LeFort 2 Osteotomy)
View attachment 2039438
View attachment 2039439

Posterior Facial Depth
The projection of the entire face as a unit from the rest of the skull and corrected by a LeFort 3 Advancement or implants informed by the LeFort 3 Concept.
View attachment 2039443
View attachment 2039444

When all of the subcategories of facial depth are sufficiently projecting the face fits into a square shape:

View attachment 2039446
View attachment 2039447View attachment 2039448View attachment 2039449

Adding facial depth with a true LeFort II or III that goes up and over the nose can give a very powerful yet natural looking result. So-called ‘Modified’ LeFort 3 and LeFort 2 Osteotomies which leave out the nose and nasion can’t do this any better than custom implants can. Therefore it should never be utilized except in the implant-phobic.
View attachment 2039455
The main aesthetic problem with a non-syndrome LeFort II is the medial canthus is usually pulled too forward, off the eyeball. In the past this has required medial canthus setback procedure with a trans-nasal wire which is not natural appearing and only belongs in syndrome craniofacial surgery. However LeFort 2 can be modified to be in front of the medial canthus and lacrimal system as I did here:
View attachment 2039466

If you don’t want LeFort 2 or LeFort 3 I have found it possible to apply this concept to my implant designs after a LeFort 1 Osteotomy. How much depends on the advancement of the LF1. I have had success balancing faces after “over-advanced” bimaxes (LACOMS strikes again! Barcelona Line strikes again!) with specially designed custom implants.

View attachment 2039458

This is just one of many concepts that just about all custom implant designs & Orthognathic surgery plans never take into account, unless by accident. (Custom Implants are almost always designed by engineers at big companies who don’t know aesthetics. Meanwhile most surgeons don’t know 3D design engineering. It’s almost never the surgeon literally designing the implant - implants are just designed under their supervision/approval.)

That’s quite a bit of detail for a concept I have gatekept strictly for my own clients for about 2 years. More information about highly-modified Craniofacial surgery available on instagram @unicorn.CMF (professional page) and @Giant.Implants (educational meme page)

Really good thread. Thank you very much! Got a question. If ur fucked up with your cranial depth can you pull your face forward with lefort2/3 and then add some implants or bone cement to the forehead? Or is the monobloc an only option?

 

[Pei]

Whites are genetically recessed

Well Barrett has a ton of forward growth but bad base still https://looksmax.org/threads/cranial-base-is-actually-cope.91220/

 

[Pei]

This thread is like a juicy pizza that we've been waiting for. Greatly simplified concept that regards more of the skull.
Nice work.

He didn’t go into enough detail

 

[try2beme]

Is Le fort 2 the only way to fix lack of anterior facial depth? I heard that le fort 2 and 3 have more risk of complications as well as suboptimal results

Lefort one and implants maybe can mimick lefort 2

 

[DerangedLunatic]

Well Barrett has a ton of forward growth but bad base still https://looksmax.org/threads/cranial-base-is-actually-cope.91220/

Barrett is a subhuman recessed faggot

 

[Pei]

Part 2 pls you barely said anything wtf

 

[Pei]

You didn’t even say enough you fucking dickhead for anyone to understand

 

[SubhumanityForce]

RSM out of everything you said, this is the only thing I don't agree with
I'm not playing gotcha w u. You're the expert.
I honestly want to know why u think that's true cos its totally wrong.
The percieved facial depth actually increases the more the head is angled towards the camera.
On the other hand, the perceived depth decreases when the face is angled away from the camera
This is a common frauding technique actually.


Take a look at these meeks pictures for
Ex.
View attachment 2315210
In this picture he has more perceived browridge forward growth and facial depth cos his head is angled towards the camera.
That is because the lateral supras on the other side of the face that is not facing the camera is exposed, therefore increasing perceived supra forward growth.
It's the same principle with facial depth.
Ex. 2
View attachment 2315211
While in this pic he has less perceived forward growth and facial depth cos his head is angled/turned away from the camera.

Side by side:
View attachment 2315213View attachment 2315214

Another set of examples:
View attachment 2315249View attachment 2315253
But even still, the second Cavill pic is still not a perfect profile pic cos the camera is angled from below and from the front instead of being dead center from the side at head level.



View attachment 2315217
This is a bad example cos Cox's head is significantly angled towards the camera and by doing so increases his perceived supra and facial depth while the other dude's head is angled away from the camera.

View attachment 2315218View attachment 2315232
Hence why some retards here use these pics to argue that Opry and Chico are recessed even tho their heads are angled/turned away from the camera in these photos. Not to mention they're both tilting their heads down.

Again I'm not playing gotcha w u or make it seem like I'm smarter or some shit like that.
Its just that the results would be inaccurate if you're using pics of models where their heads are angled/turned towards the camera for implant design model reference and surgery planning because those pics wouldn't represent their actual supraorbital and facial depth at all.
Same concern w using pics of models where their head are instead angled/turned away from the camera.

The ideal head angle in profile photo is when the glabella is barely or not exposed at all and the camera should be dead center from the side.
Like these ones:
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The Square test is failing because diff camera angles weren't taken into consideration.

@NegativeNorwood
@RealSurgerymax
@StrangerDanger

That's a very good reply indeed. If you face slightly TOWARDS the camera, facial depth appears to be greater. @RealSurgerymax what do you think?

 

[Birdcell]

Damn , didn't know I was tera chad like that.

 

[St.TikTokcel]

Damn , didn't know I was tera chad like that.

Lucky euryprosopiccel with dolichocelphalic sagittal growth. I'm on the other hand a euryprosopiccel with brachycephalic sagittal growth. LDAR!

 

[HerpDerpson]

Lucky euryprosopiccel with dolichocelphalic sagittal growth. I'm on the other hand a euryprosopiccel with brachycephalic sagittal growth. LDAR!

Can't put in words how over it is if you understand any of those words. But then again, you even know who Spoony is!

 

[St.TikTokcel]

Can't put in words how over it is if you understand any of those words. But then again, you even know who Spoony is!

Future maxillo-facial surgeons, sir

 

[HerpDerpson]

Future maxillo-facial surgeons, sir

But all he needed was a rhino...

 

[caiolindo]

My facial angle is too convex, about 160° due to lack of browridge and nasion protusion
BUT, my maxilla isn't donward grown what makes me look like a dog, the lower part of my face looks projected, but my upper third looks recessed

 

[Birdcell]

Lucky euryprosopiccel with dolichocelphalic sagittal growth. I'm on the other hand a euryprosopiccel with brachycephalic sagittal growth. LDAR!

Say : They don't know me son ! I see you ascending.