The Paul "Coceancig Line" is Completely Insane

[Deleted member 2729]

Ramieri's vs Coceancig's female patient result
View attachment 1670655

the final result is near identical, Coceancig's patient's mandible is maybe a mm or two more.

sorry to burst your bubble dumbass

In the scan with Ramieri the head of the female is tilted upwards tho. For clarification it would help to also draw the frankfurt plane into both pictures.

 

[valhalar]

looks better

My favourite shit poster.

but really imagine how destroyed the front of Gandy's face would become if Coceancig did surgery on this:

He would go from a 9 to chimp

 

[valhalar]

Final result in terms of the relation to the dropline is max ~2mm difference. In terms of aesthetics it's pretty clear I think.

Lol as @Zenturio pointed out it is tilted. These female cases are completely fucking irrelevant. Ramieri does not follow the Coceancig line at all, he focuses on soft tissue as the end result. He even shows this in his planning videos.

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

My favourite shit poster.

but really imagine how destroyed the front of Gandy's face would become if Coceancig did surgery on this:

View attachment 1670672

He would go from a 9 to chimp

do it with this one

 

[spark]

In the scan with Ramieri the head of the female is tilted upwards tho. For clarification it would help to also draw the frankfurt plane into both pictures.

Yeah you might be right here that Ramieri hasn't oriented the scan according to the Frankfurt plane. The result is also underwhelming btw.

Ramieri specifically said she came to him because she wanted a bigger chin. No genio was done. an underwhelming result for sure.

That compared to Coceancig's "overdone" patient:

 

[randomvanish]

Yeah you might be right here that Ramieri hasn't oriented the scan according to the Frankfurt plane. The result is also underwhelming btw.
View attachment 1670673

Ramieri specifically said she came to him because she wanted a bigger chin. No genio was done. an underwhelming result for sure.

That compared to Coceancig's "overdone" patient:
View attachment 1670675

why you are not willing to draw it and prove him wrong? laziness that much?

 

[Deleted member 2729]

Yeah you might be right here that Ramieri hasn't oriented the scan according to the Frankfurt plane. The result is also underwhelming btw.
View attachment 1670673

Ramieri specifically said she came to him because she wanted a bigger chin. No genio was done. an underwhelming result for sure.

That compared to Coceancig's "overdone" patient:
View attachment 1670675

admittedly coceancigs results looks way better but its hard to tell what had the most impact on this difference. Was it the movements or did the second patient simply have a better base?

 

[valhalar]

do it with this one

Leto's Coceancig© crocodilization© SUPERBIMAX© is complete:

 

[randomvanish]

Leto's Coceancig© crocodilization© SUPERBIMAX© is complete:

View attachment 1670679

@thecel you gonna love this bro

 

[valhalar]

admittedly coceancigs results looks way better but its hard to tell what had the most impact on this difference. Was it the movements or did the second patient simply have a better base?

This explains why:

"only 1 in 10 of his results are good" or when I expressed fear about overcorrection by advancing the jaws too much "the only surgeon I know that overcorrects is Coceancig in the hopes that the patients will relapse, I told him no don't do this but the patients didn't end up relapsing & that's why I stopped working with him". Now he doesn't want to work with Coceancig anymore so much that I was almost refused treatment by my ortho since he thought I wanted surgery with Coceancig!"

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

Leto's Coceancig© crocodilization© SUPERBIMAX© is complete:

View attachment 1670679

quite close though

 

[valhalar]

Alignment with Coceancig line can work for some phenotypes (RARE), especially those with flat faces. I think this is because the movement is less drastic. For people with prominent features or already half decent faces etc, it can look comical. I think the focus should be on soft tissue, and there should not be a "rule" applied to all faces. That is why Coceancig is known for over advancing and why he crocodile maxes some people.

 

[valhalar]

Btw if Leto actually got aligned with the Coceancig line there is good reason to believe it would ruin an already harmonious face from the front

 

[randomvanish]

Alignment with Coceancig line can work for some phenotypes, especially those with flat faces. I think this is because the movement is less drastic. For people with prominent features or already half decent faces etc, it can look comical. I think the focus should be on soft tissue, and there should not be a "rule" applied to all faces. That is why Coceancig is known for over advancing and why he crocodile maxes some people.

reading the thread like this

 

[valhalar]

reading the thread like this

lmao, what I mean is for some rare cases the line actually aligns with a harmonious soft tissue result. But usually it does not, and I think it looks chimp. It is also quite drastic for a lot of cases and will result in nerve damage (very common with big movements).

If you look at Alfaro's work, 90% of his male cases do not go as far as the Coceancig line.

 

[spark]

admittedly coceancigs results looks way better but its hard to tell what had the most impact on this difference. Was it the movements or did the second patient simply have a better base?

Ramieri fixed her asymmetry in the lefort that's nice. He did not do genio despite her complaining about her chin above all. I think he moved her mandible like 10mm. I am not sure how much forward movement she got but including the genio I think it's gonna be around 30 mm in the lower third.

 

[valhalar]

Ramieri's vs Coceancig's female patient result
View attachment 1670655

the final result is near identical, Coceancig's patient's mandible is maybe a mm or two more.

sorry to burst your bubble dumbass

I just exposed you again @spark

Ramieri's advancement looks nothing like Coceancig's. The difference is huge. Ramieri does not use the Coceancig line.

@Zenturio was correct. Maybe I can say "sorry to burst your bubble dumbass" after you were so confident.

 

[spark]

lmao, what I mean is for some rare cases the line actually aligns with a harmonious soft tissue result. But usually it does not, and I think it looks chimp. It is also quite drastic for a lot of cases and will result in nerve damage (very common with big movements).

If you look at Alfaro's work, 90% of his male cases do not go as far as the Coceancig line.

Alfaro's case, incisors are what like 1.5 mm off the line? The chin is like 3 mm

Yeah he'd probably look better had he been moved forward by those few mm more.

 

[valhalar]

Alfaro's case, incisors are what like 1.5 mm off the line? The chin is like 3 mm

No, just no. Coceancig advances the BONE to the line. The soft tissue over chin bone is incredibly thick. Coceancig's soft tissue result at the chin would be a lot further forward.

 

[spark]

No, just no. Coceancig advances the BONE to the line. The soft tissue over chin bone is incredibly thick. Coceancig's soft tissue result at the chin would be a lot further forward.

Yeah the bone is a few mm off the line I even drew the line...

 

[valhalar]

Yeah the bone is a few mm off the line I even drew the line...

Alfaro did a natural nice result by lining up the soft tissue with the radix/forehead. Cocecancig line is monkey face.

 

[valhalar]

I just exposed you again @spark

Ramieri's advancement looks nothing like Coceancig's. The difference is huge. Ramieri does not use the Coceancig line.

View attachment 1670694

@Zenturio was correct. Maybe I can say "sorry to burst your bubble dumbass" after you were so confident.

Still waiting for @spark to comment on this.

 

[spark]

View attachment 1670704

View attachment 1670705

Alfaro did a natural nice result by lining up the soft tissue with the radix/forehead. Cocecancig line is monkey face.

He looks better in the morph though. Those extra few mm would do him wonders.

 

[thecel]

Here is another example of David Candy, the top male model of all time:

View attachment 1670660

According to the Coceancig line he should be advanced something like this. Remember the BONE goes to the line with soft tissue over top:

View attachment 1670661

mogs

 

[valhalar]

Disagree, but whatever. I think this forum is too obsessed with forward growth. It's a meme. Most men women find attractive are behind the Coceancig line.

 

[spark]

Still waiting for @spark to comment on this.

I already commented on the fact I didn't notice the fact the surgeon didn't rotate it to the Frankfurt line which you didn't even know what it was before I told you.

 

[valhalar]

I already commented on the fact I didn't notice the fact the surgeon didn't rotate it to the Frankfurt line which you didn't even know what it was before I told you.

You wish. I think it's lol you tried to claim Ramieri uses the line. You're clowning bro with your shitty advice and gay emojis.

 

[Deleted member 2729]

He looks better in the morph though. Those extra few mm would do him wonders.

Agree. I think it really depends if the nasal base can be infront of the nasion. In some people that looks dogmaxxed but in others it clearly moggs. Probably comes down to the individual case. Thats why the most important thing is a surgeon who focuses on aesthetics and has a lot of experience

 

[valhalar]

Agree. I think it really depends if the nasal base can be infront of the nasion. In some people that looks dogmaxxed but in others it clearly moggs. Probably comes down to the individual case. Thats why the most important thing is a surgeon who focuses on aesthetics and has a lot of experience

He looks better in the morph though. Those extra few mm would do him wonders.

I think it's also important to remember that extreme movements like those Coceancig employs are associated with ever increasing risk of nerve damage. Especially when he cuts the jaws into 8 different pieces and moves them around. Then when you end up with nerve damage he just responds "you look great, I cleaned the apartment and you're complaining about a sock on the floor" (that's in multiple reviews). Just lol, some patients have complained they can't eat properly now.

 

[randomvanish]

@RealSurgerymax @SixCRY @facemaxxed @TheLordMadness @Gaia262 @PapiMew @Elias @Mongrelcel @Rupert Pupkin @Aesthetics_III @Looksmax25 @CosmicMaxxer

 

[valhalar]

Also serious question, does anyone know why Coceancig charges $3000 AUD for a cone beam scan that other surgeons offer for $150 AUD? Having met him, I think it's just because he's a money hungry used car salesman.

Is his scan really doing anything special, cause the one I got shows all the same soft tissue etc.

 

[spark]

Agree. I think it really depends if the nasal base can be infront of the nasion. In some people that looks dogmaxxed but in others it clearly moggs. Probably comes down to the individual case. Thats why the most important thing is a surgeon who focuses on aesthetics and has a lot of experience

It's weird that this guy takes some anonymous guy on a forum who said "only one in ten Coceancig's patients look good" as proof Coceancig has shitty results but when you look at the actual results he blows everyone out the water and they not only never look not overdone but most of them even look super natural.

I mean how am I supposed to take the word of some angry bitter anon on jawsurgery forum (the same forum which attacked @Sergio-OMS after he started posting there) over actual results?

 

[randomvanish]

It's weird that this guy takes some anonymous guy on a forum who said "only one in ten Coceancig's patients look good" as proof Coceancig has shitty results but when you look at the actual results he blows everyone out the water and they not only never look not overdone but most of them even look super natural.
View attachment 1670708View attachment 1670709View attachment 1670710View attachment 1670711View attachment 1670712View attachment 1670713

I mean how am I supposed to take the word of some angry bitter anon on jawsurgery forum (the same forum which attacked @Sergio-OMS after he started posting there) over actual results?

I want to ascend like this girl so bad

oh dear merciful god please let me ascend at least like this girl, make my miserable life into the heaven-like feelings, amen.

 

[valhalar]

It's weird that this guy takes some anonymous guy on a forum who said "only one in ten Coceancig's patients look good" as proof Coceancig has shitty results but when you look at the actual results he blows everyone out the water and they not only never look not overdone but most of them even look super natural.
View attachment 1670708View attachment 1670709View attachment 1670710View attachment 1670711View attachment 1670712View attachment 1670713

I mean how am I supposed to take the word of some angry bitter anon on jawsurgery forum (the same forum which attacked @Sergio-OMS after he started posting there) over actual results?

You reveal yourself with posts like this. Given the fact that many of these are IMDO posts which are done in children, and they are women and thus have no bearing on what kind of jaw surgery he does on males.

Second, your claim about Sergio is wrong. Sergio joined jawsurgeryforums after Coceancig was banned for shilling and because he was part of a "analyse my face" group that was literally scamming people. Then Sergio tried to shill for Coceancig and promoted IMDO on the forum, a procedure for children – despite the user base being adults. He then admitted after some questioning that he basically never does IMDO in adults. So they told him to stop shilling false hope to people. It is simply an attempt to get more referrals and consults, and then they say "well you cannot do IMDO but I'll give you bimax". Sergio is not a well known maxillofacial surgeon, so this is a good ploy. Most people would rather just go to a known bimax surgeon in the first place.

And why does Sergio feel the need to sign up for lookism forums? That strikes me as quite odd

 

[TsarTsar444]

View attachment 1670704

View attachment 1670705

Alfaro did a natural nice result by lining up the soft tissue with the radix/forehead. Cocecancig line is monkey face.

Looks better in the morph jfl

 

[valhalar]

who said "only one in ten Coceancig's patients look good" as proof Coceancig has shitty results but when you look at the actual results he blows everyone out the water

You make no sense... you realise a doctor can still make his results good by only posting his good results. Coceancig posts the same few cases again and again. LMAO. It's easy if you don't post 90% of your cases which have subpar results. Why didn't he post the patient I met at my consult who had chimp face?

 

[Deleted member 2729]

It's weird that this guy takes some anonymous guy on a forum who said "only one in ten Coceancig's patients look good" as proof Coceancig has shitty results but when you look at the actual results he blows everyone out the water and they not only never look not overdone but most of them even look super natural.
View attachment 1670708View attachment 1670709View attachment 1670710View attachment 1670711View attachment 1670712View attachment 1670713

I mean how am I supposed to take the word of some angry bitter anon on jawsurgery forum (the same forum which attacked @Sergio-OMS after he started posting there) over actual results?

Holy fuck what an ascension from mouthbreathing normie to gigajailbaitmaxxed aspiring stacy

 

[spark]

You reveal yourself with posts like this. Given the fact that many of these are IMDO posts which are done in children, and they are women and thus have no bearing on what kind of jaw surgery he does on males.

Out of the 6 cases or so only this girl

was an IMDO case. Also why does it even matter? You said the main problem was that he was overdoing everyone. By that logic even she could have been overdone but clearly wasn't. All of the other cases in the post were BIMAXes.

Second, your claim about Sergio is wrong. Sergio joined jawsurgeryforums after Coceancig was banned for shilling and because he was part of a "rate me" analysis group that was literally scamming people. Then Sergio tried to shill for Coceancig and promoted IMDO on the forum, a procedure for children – despite the user base being adults. He then admitted after some questioning that he basically never does IMDO in adults. So they told him to stop shilling false hope to people. It is simply an attempt to get more referrals and consults, and then they say "well you cannot do IMDO but I'll give you bimax". Sergio is not a well known maxillofacial surgeon, so this is a good ploy. Most people would rather just go to a known bimax surgeon in the first place.

And why does Sergio feel the need to sign up for lookism forums? That strikes me as quite odd

I don't want to go back to rereading that drivel but I think you are full of shit because Sergio told me he does IMDO on adults all the way into their mid-30s.

 

[spark]

View attachment 1670720
Holy fuck what an ascension from mouthbreathing normie to gigajailbaitmaxxed aspiring stacy

Meanwhile Ramieri's results be like


from a dangerous bad boy to a cutie who wouldn't hurt a fly.

 

[valhalar]

@spark your continued reference to female cases on a male forum should stop.

Why does Coceancig have less than 10 male cases? Most of which have some degree of uncanny about them. Why does he charge $3000 for a cone beam other surgeons charge $150 for? He is a sketchy dude, not a serious guy.

Meanwhile Ramieri's results be like

That's the difference between Ramieri and Coceancig. Ramieri actually posts a shit tonne of his results. I have seen literally a handful of Coceancig male results, which he continues to post years after the fact. He should have done thousands of cases by now but we never ever see them!

 

[valhalar]

you are full of shit because Sergio told me he does IMDO on adults all the way into their mid-30s

Sergio admitted that it is done on "skeletally immature patients" on JSF. It is extremely rare to do IMDO in adults, hence why Coceancig and Sergio upload videos of their patients where they are only doing bimax. If it were really so easy they would be uploading videos of them doing IMDO on their adult male patients for it's "superior results" yet they are not. They keep claiming they do it in adult patients all the time but where is the proof? A rare case, sure. But to me it's an obvious foot in the door strategy because people are desperate for IMDO.

 

[spark]

@spark your continued reference to female cases on a male forum should stop.

Why does Coceancig have less than 10 male cases? Most of which have some degree of uncanny about them. Why does he charge $3000 for a cone beam other surgeons charge $150 for? He is a sketchy dude, not a serious guy.


That's the difference between Ramieri and Coceancig. Ramieri actually posts a shit tonne of his results. I have seen literally a handful of Coceancig male results, which he continues to post years after the fact. He should have done thousands of cases by now but we never ever see them!

If your qualm with him would be him being overpriced I'd be ok with it. What you are doing is that you are claiming bullshit like that he is overdoing everyone and they all end up looking like crazy freaks when I have yet to see a single case of that.

Also most surgeons I've looked up (now not talking about the ones mentioned on the net but the ones from Central Europe who are somewhat local always have only a few cases on their site). Coceancig has so far shown like 40 cases on his IG meanwhile you are making it look like he doesn't show any. He shows more than most.

 

[valhalar]

If your qualm with him would be him being overpriced I'd be ok with it. What you are doing is that you are claiming bullshit like that he is overdoing everyone and they all end up looking like crazy freaks when I have yet to see a single case of that.

Also most surgeons I've looked up (now not talking about the ones mentioned on the net but the ones from Central Europe who are somewhat local always have only a few cases on their site). Coceancig has so far shown like 40 cases on his IG meanwhile you are making it look like he doesn't show any. He shows more than most.

No, surgeons who do no marketing and focus on their job do not post many cases.

Surgeons who do a lot of marketing, charge a fortune but do not post many photos are sketchy.

In the middle you have a healthy balance. Ramieri is an example. He posts heaps of his results, including ones that are the best possible outcome but will never be perfect. He is also a normal price.

Yet Coceancig only posts the ones that look the best, which is suspect given some of the horrible reviews and comments from his former colleague. He is still posting the same cases from 2016 despite claiming to have done surgery in thousands.

Not only that, he claims he has done IMDO in "hundreds" of adult jaws yet I have never seen one of them.

 

[spark]

Sergio admitted that it is done on "skeletally immature patients" on JSF. It is extremely rare to do IMDO in adults, hence why Coceancig and Sergio upload videos of their patients where they are only doing bimax. If it were really so easy they would be uploading videos of them doing IMDO on their adult male patients for it's "superior results" yet they are not. They keep claiming they do it in adult patients all the time but where is the proof? A rare case, sure. But to me it's an obvious foot in the door strategy because people are desperate for IMDO.

I don't think they claim they do it all the time on older patients. I think Coceancig even said it somewhere that it is not feasible for most adults as it is a very slow process. I mean most adults don't even wanna wear braces anymore let alone spend several months doing this. This is an adult IMDO case for example.


The "super bimaxes" all utilize IMDOs. I mean what is the issue? Coceancig does both IMDO and BSSO.

 

[spark]

No, surgeons who do no marketing and focus on their job do not post many cases.

Surgeons who do a lot of marketing, charge a fortune but do not post many photos are sketchy.

In the middle you have a healthy balance. Ramieri is an example. He posts heaps of his results, including ones that are the best possible outcome but will never be perfect. He is also a normal price.

Yet Coceancig only posts the ones that look the best, which is suspect given some of the horrible reviews and comments from his former colleague. He is still posting the same cases from 2016 despite claiming to have done surgery in thousands.

Not only that, he claims he has done IMDO in "hundreds" of adult jaws yet I have never seen one of them.

Anglo surgeons are always more expensive. You are gonna pay even more in America. I have only seen one legitimately bad review where the woman claimed chronic pain after a le fort (but was still happy with her aesthetic results). Other "bad" reviews are just people saying he is mean and arrogant and what not. The former colleague you are talking about is an anon on an internet forum so that doesn't even count.

 

[valhalar]

Anglo surgeons are always more expensive. You are gonna pay even more in America. I have only seen one legitimately bad review where the woman claimed chronic pain after a le fort. Other "bad" reviews are just people saying he is mean and arrogant and what not. The former colleague you are talking about is an anon on an internet forum so that doesn't even count.

No, Coceancig is charging multiple times more than jaw surgeons in his own city who produce good results. He charges $3000 for a fucking cone beam.

This is an adult IMDO case for example

No, it was a late teen IMDO. Show me the IMDO he does in adults 25+ which he claims he has done hundreds of but apparently posted no results.

 

[spark]

No, Coceancig is charging multiple times more than jaw surgeons in his own city who produce good results. He charges $3000 for a fucking cone beam.


No, it was a late teen IMDO. Show me the IMDO he does in adults 25+ which he claims he has done hundreds of but apparently posted no results.

Has he claimed that he has done hundreds of 25+ IMDOs? All I have heard from him was that he doesn't recommend IMDOs to most adults and instead goes for BSSOs..

Also this was sent to me from one of his patients on this forum:

35k Australian dollars is 23k EUR for 3 facial surgeries? Doesn't seem that terrible tbh.

 

[valhalar]

Has he claimed that he has done hundreds of 25+ IMDOs? All I have heard from him was that he doesn't recommend IMDOs to most adults and instead goes for BSSOs..

Also this was sent to me from one of his patients on this forum:

35k Australian dollars is 23k EUR for 3 facial surgeries? Doesn't seem that terrible tbh.

He has claimed in his comment section on YT that he did hundreds of adult IMDO’s lol.

As for price, it is $90,000 - $120,000 for foreigners. His 35k is with Medicare taken into account for locals. By the way, with other surgeons in Australia you can do double jaw surgery for $8k - $12k. Coceancig is literally charging 3x the market rate lmao.

 

[spark]

He has claimed in his comment section on YT that he did hundreds of adult IMDO’s lol.

As for price, it is $90,000 - $120,000 for foreigners. His 35k is with Medicare taken into account for locals. By the way, with other surgeons in Australia you can do double jaw surgery for $8k - $12k. Coceancig is literally charging 3x the market rate lmao.

Is it really 90-120k? I would like to see some evidence of that. Why would he do triple the price for non-Australians?

 

[valhalar]

Is it really 90-120k? I would like to see some evidence of that. Why would he do triple the price for non-Australians?

Because the bulk of the cost of surgery in australia is covered by Medicare. He isn’t tripling the cost for foreigners, he is charging most of the cost to the taxpayer and $35k to the patient.

I was quoted 90-120k in my consult, and he asked what I and my parents did for a career to see if we could afford it lmao.

Btw, THIS is my lower third which he said he wanted to do a huge custom bimax on even though my jaw is proportional to my face/frame. I only went to see him about small custom implants for symmetry at the time.



IMO he’s a mad man.