The Paul "Coceancig Line" is Completely Insane

[valhalar]

^
I should’ve written that in coherent order but basically I went to ask about a very thin 1-2mm implant for symmetry, and he launched into claiming i “needed” custom bimax for my health… or I’ll die early due to breathing issues and TMJ even though I sleep fine and have no TMJ issues.

He then ignored me saying I didn’t want that, and proceeded to say this was the best course for my appearance and health, asked what we did for careers. Then he said it would be 90-120k. I even have the emails from them pestering me to see if I wanted surgery even though I said no jfl.

 

[randomvanish]

Because the bulk of the cost of surgery in australia is covered by Medicare. He isn’t tripling the cost for foreigners, he is charging most of the cost to the taxpayer and $35k to the patient.

I was quoted 90-120k in my consult, and he asked what I and my parents did for a career to see if we could afford it lmao.

Btw, THIS is my lower third which he said he wanted to do a huge custom bimax on even though my jaw is proportional to my face/frame. I only went to see him about small custom implants for symmetry at the time.



IMO he’s a mad man.

daddy ?

 

[spark]

Because the bulk of the cost of surgery in australia is covered by Medicare. He isn’t tripling the cost for foreigners, he is charging most of the cost to the taxpayer and $35k to the patient.

I was quoted 90-120k in my consult, and he asked what I and my parents did for a career to see if we could afford it lmao.

Btw, THIS is my lower third which he said he wanted to do a huge custom bimax on even though my jaw is proportional to my face/frame. I only went to see him about small custom implants for symmetry at the time.



IMO he’s a mad man.

The guy who sent me that though said the 35k was almost entirely paid by the insurance so it would seem like that 35k would be the cost for someone without an insurance.

 

[valhalar]

The guy who sent me that though said the 35k was almost entirely paid by the insurance so it would seem like that 35k would be the cost for someone without an insurance.

Okay but that doesn’t change the fact he is still Australian. A foreigners insurance isn’t gonna cover bimaxillary surgery done in australia. So it’s 90k for custom bimax.

 

[spark]

Okay but that doesn’t change the fact he is still Australian. A foreigners insurance isn’t gonna cover bimaxillary surgery done in australia. So it’s 90k for custom bimax.

Hmm I might be remembering wrong but I think there was someone on this forum who wasn't Australian who got a surgery from him and it didn't seem that expensive but I am not sure. IMDO is much cheaper though. Maybe that is another reason he doesn't do it as often in adults.

 

[valhalar]

Hmm I might be remembering wrong but I think there was someone on this forum who wasn't Australian who got a surgery from him and it didn't seem that expensive but I am not sure. IMDO is much cheaper though. Maybe that is another reason he doesn't do it as often in adults.

Yeah but you're never gonna just get IMDO, you need upper jaw surgery for it to work. From what I gave seen, Paul is known for subterfuge and "quoting" for IMDO but excludes the cost of the upper jaw surgery, as he sells everything as "individual procedures".

Ramieri charging ~22k AUD (his total private cost without insurance, including anaesthetic and hospital) for bimax is far cheaper than $90,000 AUD for Paul's bimax (total private cost) which does not include theatre cost, hospital stay, and anaesthetic.

BTW custom bimax is basically what most users on this forum would be looking at.

 

[Mongrelcel]

another W for italian surgeons

 

[spark]

another W for italian surgeons

Coceancig is also Italian btw. His mom and dad are Italian immigrants and he still speaks Italian with his family.

 

[Mongrelcel]

Coceancig is also Italian btw. His mom and dad are Italian immigrants and he still speaks Italian with his family.

what a plot twist

 

[spark]

Yeah but you're never gonna just get IMDO, you need upper jaw surgery for it to work. From what I gave seen, Paul is known for subterfuge and "quoting" for IMDO but excludes the cost of the upper jaw surgery, as he sells everything as "individual procedures".

Ramieri charging ~22k AUD (his total private cost without insurance, including anaesthetic and hospital) for bimax is far cheaper than $90,000 AUD for Paul's bimax (total private cost) which does not include theatre cost, hospital stay, and anaesthetic.

BTW custom bimax is basically what most users on this forum would be looking at.

Yeah I would never be able to afford 100k but the pricing he offered to that Australian guy seemed pretty reasonable

 

[valhalar]

Coceancig is also Italian btw. His mom and dad are Italian immigrants and he still speaks Italian with his family.

According to his bio his family emigrated from Scotland in 1826. His children hold Swiss and Italian passports, so sounds like one of his parents is Italian.

Yeah I would never be able to afford 100k but the pricing he offered to that Australian guy seemed pretty reasonable

Surgeons in Australia quote prices with Medicare taken into account though. The "no rebates" throws people off, but surgeons use bulk-billing meaning you don’t have to pay for your medical service from a health professional. They are actually billing the majority of the cost to Medicare instead. Anything "extra" on top gets charged to the patient, which is what Coceancig is charging there.

 

[spark]

According to his bio his family emigrated from Scotland in 1826. His children hold Swiss and Italian passports, so sounds like one of his parents is Italian.

Surgeons in Australia quote prices with Medicare taken into account though. The "no rebates" throws people off, but surgeons use bulk-billing meaning you don’t have to pay for your medical service from a health professional. They are actually billing the majority of the cost to Medicare instead. Anything "extra" on top gets charged to the patient, which is what Coceancig is charging there.

His dad is Italian but maybe his mom is Scottish then.

 

[valhalar]

His dad is Italian but maybe his mom is Scottish then.

Edit: nvm last name lol

 

[spark]

Sorry but how do you even know this? That seems kinda stalkerish

I mean you dug out his entire family lmao. I mean the guy doesn't even look Anglo I watched some of his videos on youtube and he spoke with his dad about his childhood in Italy. Also his last name is Italian.

 

[valhalar]

I mean you dug out his entire family lmao. I mean the guy doesn't even look Anglo I watched some of his videos on youtube and he spoke with his dad about his childhood in Italy. Also his last name is Italian.

I copied a link to a bio bro lol.

 

[randomvanish]

so, what's the consensus here? should we hang coceancig or nah?

 

[spark]

I copied a link to a bio bro lol.

Yeah I know but after I mentioned him being Italian it took you like 3 minutes to dig out his entire bio from a non-Australian website I have never even heard about https://www.dentist.co.nz/

 

[valhalar]

Yeah I know but after I mentioned him being Italian it took you like 3 minutes to dig out his entire bio from a non-Australian website I have never even heard about https://www.dentist.co.nz/

I googled Coceancig Italian lol

so, what's the consensus here? should we hang coceancig or nah?

Whether or not you like Coceancig's aesthetic is up to you. I think he does meme forward growth but it depends on the person. If you like that aesthetic and are Australian then fine. If you aren't Australian who even cares.

 

[spark]

so, what's the consensus here? should we hang coceancig or nah?

He seems to have the best results by far, is known to be more expensive than other surgeons in Australia, he really hates orthodontic appliances and dislikes the Mewtards and claims everything is genetics and that environment doesn't matter (which I even argued against underneath his videos).

 

[valhalar]

He seems to have the best results by far, is known to be more expensive than other surgeons in Australia, he really hates orthodontic appliances and dislikes the Mewtards and claims everything is genetics and that environment doesn't matter (which I even argued against underneath his videos).

Most surgeons don't even post results, so how can you say that? I think you need to see results in the clinic. I saw a dude in his 70s who posts nothing and he was doing the same movements developed by Arnett-Gunson

 

[spark]

Most surgeons don't even post results, so how can you say that? I think you need to see results in the clinic. I saw a dude in his 70s who posts nothing and he was doing the same movements developed by Arnett-Gunson

Yeah there could be some better surgeons who don't post results but since they don't post results you can never know if they are good or not. The average surgeon who doesn't post results is likely much worse than the guys who do.

 

[randomvanish]

Yeah there could be some better surgeons who don't post results but since they don't post results you can never know if they are good or not. The average surgeon who doesn't post results is likely much worse than the guys who do.

who are the top 5 according to your findings?

 

[spark]

who are the top 5 according to your findings?

No idea bro I usually look up the names which pop up on this forum which is like the same 5 names over again. There was this American surgeon posted here like a year ago who was doing some crazy custom surgery to a quite a deformed person (or maybe it was an accident victim I don't know). I even forgot his name but everyone was super impressed here including me. I can't really help you here I am afraid. The reason I said Coceancig has the best results is because his results have impressed me the most compared to the guys always mentioned here.

 

[Mongrelcel]

No idea bro I usually look up the names which pop up on this forum which is like the same 5 names over again. There was this American surgeon posted here like a year ago who was doing some crazy custom surgery to a quite a deformed person (or maybe it was an accident victim I don't know). I even forgot his name but everyone was super impressed here including me. I can't really help you here I am afraid. The reason I said Coceancig has the best results is because his results have impressed me the most compared to the guys always mentioned here.

ramieri has impressed me the most
whole package - results, skill and pricing

didn't look super deep into it tho

 

[randomvanish]

ramieri has impressed me the most
whole package - results, skill and pricing

didn't look super deep into it tho

what's the price for foreigners?

 

[Patient A]

Also gj trying to figure out the infraorbital margin and connecting it to the upper margin of the external acoustic meatus from a photo like this.

It’s called ignorance

 

[Patient A]

Add nasion projection too

Asking too much from this retard

 

[Patient A]

The lines drawn are obviously wrong though. It's impossible to correctly assess it from candids.

this @valhalar guy is legit crazy and stupid.

He’s drawing lines on the skin of randomly taken pictures of people and guessing where the bone sits under the skin. Which can radically change the rotation of right angle of the lines depending where he guesses.

When the actual method is drawing lines on bone from 3 dimensionally perfect CT scans.

Before he can even argue his point his evidence is severely fundamentally flawed.

I’m surprised this argument has spanned so many repetitive posts.

 

[lasthope]

Lol he literally claims here that big masseters are from eating a lot of corn, clenching and playing football, and the other surgeon says its genetics and he disagrees:



Your continued claims that I am lying or making stuff up are cringe when you're the one who has failed to provide any evidence for your arguments.

Does Coceancig states here that he would probably done bimax too if he was younger?
@37:40

 

[Patient A]

Now he doesn't want to work with Coceancig anymore so much that I was almost refused treatment by my ortho since he thought I wanted surgery with Coceancig

So your argument is one orthodontist disagreed with his method.

 

[Patient A]

Lol he literally claims here that big masseters are from eating a lot of corn, clenching and playing football, and the other surgeon says its genetics and he disagrees:

Correct

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

Add nasion projection too

RealSurgerymax commented on my post

 

[Patient A]

Is it really 90-120k

For foreigners yes.

Medical industry is notorious for cranking high prices against insurance companies. Then when you try to go privately the price is incredibly high.

The Entire USA medical system is very bad for this. It is a surprisingly misunderstood situation.

 

[PURE ARYAN GENETICS]

Adding nasion projection doesn't change the fact that user tilted it far beyond 'good posture'. The line from ear, through the infra to the nasal bone is already the Frankfurt plane indicating horizontal head position. The only thing good posture would due is straighten up the neck, not alter the angle his face is at.

If you have to be looking down 24/7 for the result to look normal then lol.

Can people here just acknowledge that the dude does not need surgery and is already good looking despite not meeting measurements conjured up by maxillofacial surgeons.

I know a stacy who keeps her head like that natty

 

[Patient A]

Because the bulk of the cost of surgery in australia is covered by Medicare. He isn’t tripling the cost for foreigners, he is charging most of the cost to the taxpayer and $35k to the patient.

I was quoted 90-120k in my consult, and he asked what I and my parents did for a career to see if we could afford it lmao.

Btw, THIS is my lower third which he said he wanted to do a huge custom bimax on even though my jaw is proportional to my face/frame. I only went to see him about small custom implants for symmetry at the time.



IMO he’s a mad man.

Post more than this man we can’t garner anything from this picture

 

[Patient A]

basically I went to ask about a very thin 1-2mm implant for symmetry

I can’t take you seriously.

Your brain is not wired right.

Seek a therapist

 

[spark]

For foreigners yes.

Medical industry is notorious for cranking high prices against insurance companies. Then when you try to go privately the price is incredibly high.

The Entire USA medical system is very bad for this. It is a surprisingly misunderstood situation.

Damn do you know more about Coceancig's pricing? It seems incredibly expensive.

 

[Patient A]

Damn do you know more about Coceancig's pricing? It seems incredibly expensive.

Listen numbnuts #2, we have already explained his pricing and reasons for it. It is what it is there’s no argument.

Contact him yourself if you are seriously interested.

 

[spark]

Listen numbnuts #2, we have already explained his pricing and reasons for it. It is what it is there’s no argument.

Contact him yourself if you are seriously interested.

Chill I was just probing for information thinking you might have had a consultation with him.

 

[Patient A]

@valhar points summarised:

• Coceancig has high prices
• Coceancig once said that massuetur muscles get most of their size from hypertrophy, this could be interpreted as shape not just size.
• Apparently an orthodontist disagrees with Coceancig advancement methods.

• @valhalar guesses where bone sits under skin on non scientific pictures and draws lines.
• @valhalar posts terrible non scientifIc picture of his lower facial third
• @valhalar thinks 1-2mm thick jaw implants are worthwhile, say no more about his knowledge and mental health

 

[randomvanish]

@valhar points summarised:

• Coceancig has high prices
• Coceancig once said that massuetur muscles get most of their size from hypertrophy.
• Apparently an orthodontist disagrees with Coceancig advancement methods.

• @valhalar guesses where bone sits under skin on non scientific pictures and draws lines.
• @valhalar posts terrible non scientifIc picture of his lower facial third
• @valhalar thinks 1-2mm thick jaw implants are worthwhile, say no more about his knowledge.

so you not summarizing my posts when i beg for knowledge?

add this;

• Randomvanish, who is a great guy, demanding a legit consensus on Coceancig.

 

[Patient A]

Chill I was just probing for information thinking you might have had a consultation with him.

Look, you have both annoyed me with this thread with your autism and stupidity. You are not as bad as @valhalar tho.

 

[spark]

Look, you have both annoyed me with this thread with your autism and stupidity. You are not as bad as @valhalar tho.

You still liked most of my posts here.

 

[thecel]

I morphed it with good posture and then a better ramus that would fit such forward growth. looks pretty good
View attachment 1660906

“good posture”

 

[thecel]

@valhalar You’re Wrong.

 

[valhalar]

@valhalar You’re Wrong.

View attachment 1671696

First; that isn’t the Coceancig line.

Second, even Barrett is recessed according to the line because the line is where the bone goes, not soft tissue.

Third, the line is fine on some phenotypes, but it shouldn’t be a blanket rule.

 

[thecel]

First; that isn’t the Coceancig line.

---

Second, even Barrett is recessed according to the line because the line is where the bone goes, not soft tissue.

I drew the line where the bones are. You see the soft tissue on the chin protruding ahead of the line?

---

Third, the line is fine on some phenotypes, but it shouldn’t be a blanket rule.

 

[LightSkinNoob]

Listen numbnuts #2

 

[bossman]

Nobody would go into so much effort to make Coceancig look like shit without a personal reason.

Yes, there are many people on this forum who don't like Coceancig for whatever reason, but it's not what half their posts are about.

Chances are Coceancig brutally destroyed OPs self esteem and now he's crying here like an abused dog.

 

[Yoke]

I've seen many people ask questions about Dr. Paul Coceancig's "Coceancig Line" for jaw surgery.

In his words "A vertical maximal aesthetic line from the nasal bone tip, with horizontal Frankfurt plane, can be used as a predictable and simple cephalometric.."

Many users have pointed out that this seems excessive, particularly because this is where he advances the bone to, not the soft tissue.

Here this image shows how he is going to advance all three points to the line:

View attachment 1659494

This is an example of a profile that is recessed according to Coceancig's line, I can agree the chin is a bit small but not ugly:

View attachment 1659495

However, if I advance everything as he does: the chin, the nasal spine, the incisor... AT THE BONE, taking into account a layer of soft tissue over the top....

THEN THIS is an approximate result you would get:

View attachment 1659498

This is the reason I refused to spend $90,000 with Coceancig and probably the reason he posts so few of his results online. He just posts the same 10 cases again and again. I told you he had crocodilemaxxed a patient I met.

The Coceancig shills on here who promote his BS need to think twice. He is correct that IMDO is a great procedure for kids. He is wrong with his "line" that no other surgeon subscribes to, because it just ignores soft tissue and goes full monkey which is not aesthetic for most people.

He also used to post on JawSurgeryForums as "OrthodontistExpert", and was banned because he shilled IMDO and talked about how great he was, and they traced the IP to his area. He also lied about other surgeons not being able to do 3D planning in order to rope people in. See Coceancig's comment in purple and a response from another user in white.

View attachment 1659500

The coceancig line should be renamed the crocodile line.

you did not really move the soft tissues of the midface in your morph. Would the nasal base not be pushed forward with his maxilla?