Solution to height [HIGH IQ ONLY] [SMARTCELS GTFIH RN]

Forward head gamer posture.
Ok, but what about overall posture, you could be sitting with your legs at 90 degrees and your torso at 90 degrees to your legs with a straight back and still have forward head gamer posture.
Did you play on pc or console and did you play sitting or laying?
 
Ok, but what about overall posture, you could be sitting with your legs at 90 degrees and your torso at 90 degrees to your legs with a straight back and still have forward head gamer posture.
Did you play on pc or console and did you play sitting or laying?
Played on console sitting on couch. Bending forward to concentrate more. Legs bent past 90 degrees to stabilize myself when leaning forward.
 
The Determining Factor for Height

Introduction​

It seems that if there’s anything you don’t like about yourself, you can work on it or get it fixed. If you’re fat, you can diet and exercise. If you have a uni-brow, you can pluck it. If you’re short, though… sorry, not even surgery can help you there. Teens often wonder if weightlifting will stunt their growth, as if humans are supposed to be tall and anything less is suboptimal. I believe a man that is 5’5” is neither unhealthy nor malnourished. In today’s society, however, being short is a huge disadvantage for men. Studies have shown that height is strongly correlated with income—tall men are simply granted more money and status in society. Tall men often develop a sense of superiority from the ability to literally look down on other people. And, of course, a tall man has a greater selection of women to date since most women will only date a man taller than herself. Life seems very unfair for the short man. But what if I told you height is not 100% genetic and can be nurtured? Well, it’s probably too late for you anyway.



Hypothesis​

Fact: one’s height is the sum of the lengths of their leg, torso, neck, and head. Today’s scientists say that height is determined by growth plates, which are located at both ends of a bone, and that nothing can be done to alter their growth rate. I believe these scientists have overlooked the fact that muscles surround the bones. I hypothesize that height can be manipulated through development of the leg and torso muscles. (I left out the lengths of the head and neck because they are insignificant compared to the leg and torso.) Muscles have what’s known as a contractile force. As the muscle becomes bigger/more developed, the contractile force increases. If there is no muscle then there is no contractile force:


As you can see, this muscle’s contractile force goes the opposite direction of the growth plate force. Thus, leg and torso muscle hypertrophy should impede vertical growth. It is possible to stretch and massage a muscle into a more relaxed state and thus weakening the contractile force. To maximize height, I believe one must eliminate all the contractile forces that contribute to height. These are all the muscles with fibers that run vertically: the calves, quadriceps, hamstrings, abdominals, erector spinae, and quadratus lumborum. Any muscle development of these muscles will retard vertical growth, as my hypothesis goes.

How exactly would one maximize height? During the developmental years, one should avoid all high-intensity (i.e. muscle-building) exercises of the aforementioned muscles. This means never doing sit-ups, squats, etc. If physical activity must be done then it should be done with low-intensity (and high repetition). This means light jogging instead of sprinting, jumping rope rather than high jumping, hopscotch rather than long jump, or even carrying groceries into the house in three trips rather than one. In other words, energy should be expended with cardiovascular activities rather than in short bursts. This lifestyle will minimize muscle hypertrophy and thus maximize height. It’s hard to avoid all physical activity, however, so the second part of the equation is to frequently stretch and massage the leg and spine muscles to a relaxed state. The bridge stretch is a good example. Even sitting cross-legged for some time will stretch the leg and lower back muscles. To minimize height, one should engage in high-intensity leg and torso activities, and neglect stretching these muscles.

image002.png


Lugging a heavy backpack around school every day is the worst thing a teen can do for his/her height—not because of gravity, though. The act of stabilizing all the weight shifting around will strengthen the erector spinae and quadratus lumborum muscles.

Existing Hypotheses​

Many people believe height is genetically predetermined. I definitely agree that genes are a factor. But, as with many conditions, I see the role of genes as defining an individual’s default/expected value and the possible range of deviation. I often visualize the effect of genes as a probability distribution, or a box-and-whisker plot:

boxplot

I believe genes define how tall one is expected to grow. Basically, a daughter is expected to be the same height as her mother and a son is to be the same height as his father. I believe genes also define the minimum and maximum degree of deviation allowed. How far a person deviates from the projected value—how far one travels along the whiskers of the box plot—is up to nurture, I hypothesize.

So it’s genes + nurture. Most people today believe this means genes + diet, because people attribute just about every unexplained human phenomenon to diet. This is idiotic. Yes, I do believe malnutrition can stunt growth, but I believe extreme starvation is required for this to occur. I’m sure you’ve encountered short people who eat too much food, too little food, only healthy food, etc. and tall people who eat too much food, too little food, only healthy food, etc. In other words, no one has observed a correlation between height and diet. Why, then, do so many people believe diet determines height? People are simplistic. People believe that the only thing we have a choice on, in life, is what we eat. They fail to realize that there’s also “calories out”—our behavior.

Every four years, people notice that Olympic gymnasts are short and then wonder: did gymnastics make them short, or are they the best at gymnastics because they’re short? The chicken or the egg dilemma; is selection bias at play? Scientists say the growth plates cannot be affected, except from injury, therefore gymnastics cannot make a person short. I say it can. Unlike long-distance runners, gymnasts use the legs with high-intensity as they leap around in tumbling, vault, and balance beam. This induces muscle hypertrophy of the calves, quadriceps, hamstrings, abdominals, erector spinae, and quadratus lumborum, among other muscles. Thus, a large contractile force is working against growth plate expansion of the limbs involved in height.



Supporting Evidence: Comparing Urban to Rural​

I believe growing up in an urban environment causes teens to live more sedentary lives than their rural counterparts. Urbanization replaces fields and nature with high-rise buildings and computers. There is simply no space to run around and play in a city. I hypothesize that this sedentary lifestyle produces undeveloped leg and torso muscles, which results in a taller height. Kids in rural environments run around and play outside more often, which leads to well-developed leg and torso muscles, which leads to shorter overall height. Is this backed by any evidence? In 2013, CJ Paciorek published a study which found that urban children are taller than their rural counterparts in almost all of the 141 (low-income and middle-income) countries they researched:

height

The study’s interpretation of these findings is that the rural areas have less access to stable and affordable food supply and health care. This study is far from alone. There are countless studies that find a correlation between urbanization and height, and they all believe the same thing: better access to food and health care leads to taller humans. The truth of the matter is that there are many variables in play as humans go from a rural environment to an urban one, so using just this data will not suffice for my hypothesis. We must narrow it down to the “sedentary lifestyle” component of the urban environment as the determining factor of height.

Many studies have found that a sedentary lifestyle is strongly correlated with myopia, a.k.a. nearsightedness. The more hours you spend doing deskwork, the worse your vision will be. In fact, 80-90% of children completing high school are now myopic in urban cities in Asia. Why am I talking about myopia? Because it has a strong correlation to deskwork. Thus I am going to substitute “myopia” with “sedentary lifestyle.” In 2002, Saw SM, et al. published “Height and Its Relationship to Refraction and Biometry Parameters in Singapore Chinese Children” after finding a correlation between height and myopia. That is, Saw SM, et al. found that the taller the child was, the worse his/her vision was. Using my substitution: the taller the child, the more sedentary his/her lifestyle.

The following is not concrete evidence but rather a few things I’ve noticed over the years. One, it seems like children have been getting taller and taller. That is, a 10-year-old today seems taller than a 10-year-old from 10 years ago. Most people simply chalk this up to “better diet and nutrition” but I beg to differ. Food has been plentiful for many, many decades. Two, I’ve observed that the teenagers who are tall also seem to lack muscle development at the legs. That is, if you were to outline their legs, there would be no curves whatsoever at the calf and knee area—it’d just be straight lines from hip to foot, like a bad drawing. Shorter teenagers, on the other hand, tend to exhibit distinct calves and knees—or as I see it: muscle development.



Ideal Supporting Evidence: Teens That Did High-Intensity Legwork​

One way to gather data for my hypothesis would be to conduct a survey on full-grown adults (i.e. ages 22-40). First, I would ask them what their height is. Second, I would ask them if they participated in karate, gymnastics, weightlifting of the legs, etc. as a developing child/teenager. Third, I would ask them how many months/years they were active in these sports. I expect the data to show a strong negative relationship between years spent doing high-intensity leg activities and (final) height. Karate and gymnastics qualify as high-intensity leg workouts because they involve a lot of kicking and jumping.

Another survey possibility would be to ask how much outdoor playtime someone experienced during their developmental years. The survey would poll developing teens and full-grown adults, rural and urban. The teens would be able to give the most accurate numbers as to how long they played. I predict the rural population to have more outdoor play, and thus be shorter, than their urban counterparts. I’d say that for the majority of countries, for at least one generation now, people in rural areas have had access to the same kind of diet/calories as people in urban areas. I also predict that in mountainous regions to have more muscularly-developed legs, and thus be shorter, than people in flat plains.

The best evidence for my hypothesis would be a survey on the heights of identical twins that lived drastically different lifestyles yet shared similar diets. For example, a twin who took many years of karate or gymnastics while his/her twin did not. Unfortunately, this scenario is very rare because most parents of twins want to give their twins have an equal and fair upbringing. However, Googling clever phrases, such as: “stunt growth weight lifting ‘twin brother’,” “stunt growth gymnastics 'twin sister',” or “stunt growth working out ‘identical twin’,” yielded many anecdotes that support my hypothesis.



Comparing Heights is Tricky​

Beware of people on the internet parroting the unproven theory that working out or weightlifting does not stunt growth. These people often cite scientists that say genetically-predetermined growth plates are responsible for overall height. End of story. Truth is, there hasn’t been a study to prove one way or the other. Also beware of people sharing their personal anecdote with no control variable. Say, for example, Jamaal from the internet says he ran track and field for all four years in high school and he’s much taller than the average American man, therefore leg workouts do not hinder height at all. I hope you see that this is incredibly flawed. First of all, he doesn’t have a control variable—he is comparing himself to the average American—America is a very diverse country with many ethnicities. It would be more acceptable for him to compare his height to the average height of his ethnicity in America. More acceptable than that would be to compare to the average of his cousins. More acceptable than that would be a blood sibling. Ideal would be an identical twin that didn’t do any physical activity in high school. Secondly, running is not necessarily a high-intensity leg exercise and thus may not induce muscle growth. Sprinting is, but long-distance running is low-intensity. Among the teenagers who do work out, only a few actually work out the calves, quadriceps, hamstrings, abdominals, or erector spinae with high intensity.

There is currently no explanation as to why siblings differ in height. The genetic explanation may be that one sibling “got the bad genes.” My hypothesis says that the child who uses leg and torso muscles with high intensity will grow up to be “the short one.” But it gets tricky! Women are, by nature, about 10% smaller than men, and thus 10% shorter as well. For example, say a man is 5’10” and has a sister. It’s expected that his sister is around 5’3” because this is 10% less than 5’10”. If she turned out to also be 5’10”, I would conjecture that the man’s childhood involved intense leg usage, while hers did not. If she turned out to be 4’11”, I would speculate the other way around. Another factor to consider is that, in today’s society, physical activity is reserved for the male gender. The boy is encouraged or forced to do the physical labor, especially when it comes to strenuous (i.e. high-intensity) activities, because he is to “be a man.” The girl is discouraged or excused from doing physical activity because she is to “be a princess.” If a female is doing physical work, it’s advised to be low-intensity cardio activity. This is a moot point in a modern, urban lifestyle, however, where this physical labor is nearly nonexistent. But if a (rural) family strictly adhered to these gender roles, I would bet on the boy growing up to be shorter than his sister, or barely taller.



Implications of my Hypothesis​

Besides keeping high-intensity activity at a minimum, a less obvious way to maximize height would be a special diet devoid of protein. Since protein purportedly aids in muscle growth and recovery, kids can avoid protein-rich foods during developmental years to minimize muscle growth. Kids should also avoid getting fat, because fat is extra weight to carry around which leads to muscle hypertrophy. For example, if you took two kids—one fat, one skinny—with the same age, height, and lifestyle, the fat kid will have a more muscle mass. This is from carrying about daily activities with extra weight on. So I suppose diet does matter, but not in the way people believe it matters.

The harder you work, the shorter you will grow up to be—if work is to be defined as high-intensity physical labor. When I see a short man—especially for his race—I often think to myself, “He must have worked hard when he was young. Maybe he helped his parents carry heavy loads every day.” And when I see a really tall man, I cannot help but think, “He’s probably never pushed himself physically. Maybe he spent his childhood sitting cross-legged in front of a TV all day.” I’m not saying the equation for height is 100% nurture. Genetics still play a role. I would say that being short comes from generations of high-intensity leg and back work, and being tall comes from generations of comfortable living. Yes, this is Lamarck’s Theory of Inheritance of Acquired Characteristics. Again, before you try to disprove my hypothesis with an anecdote: you need a control variable, such as a same-sex sibling. For example, it is a mistake to compare your level of physical activity and final height to the national average, especially if that nation is racially diverse.

@copingvolcel is an example of this theory. Just look around you.

TL;DR: Working out will make your muscles stronger and bigger, this will exert force in the opposite direction of which your bones grow, limiting high-intensity low-repetition working out will make you taller, instead, low-intensity high-repetition should be done.

aka don't workout, get taller theory.


My take on this is don't work out until the age of 20.


TAG TALL-SKINNYCELS BELOW
Wtf
 
Played on console sitting on couch. Bending forward to concentrate more. Legs bent past 90 degrees to stabilize myself when leaning forward.
Thanks man.
Btw you said you ate like a soup and salad almost daily, but did you eat processed foods like chips, candy, cake or smth? Looking back now would you say you were lacking a lot of micronutrients (vitamins, minerals etc.)? Did you drink milk or eat anything dairy or meat?
 
Nothing than an anecdote, but I used to cycle to school every day, in total for about one hour minimum every day, with steep hills in between. Also had a heavy backpack, that fucked up my posture to the point where kids made fotos of my terrible posture to laugh at it. Also a diet low in protein and animal fats. Now I'm shorter than expected from my parents (although not much), also my sister is close to my height.
ngl same, i was fat as a kid, carried a heavy backpack,
started lifting at 13 and I’m shorter than my dad
 
  • So Sad
Reactions: zxz
Most mongoloid shit i've heard today the fact people don't even question this is even more Retarded just throw some complicated shit in there that actually takes effort to understand and people are kissing your ass about how smart you are
 
  • +1
  • JFL
Reactions: WadlowMaxxing, Alexanderr and zxz
Age 13-15, I barely ate, I ate a couple sandwiches and milk but not enough

im 17 and 5'7 rn, I started lifting at 13
 
  • JFL
  • So Sad
Reactions: WadlowMaxxing and Deleted member 5875
Thanks man.
Btw you said you ate like a soup and salad almost daily, but did you eat processed foods like chips, candy, cake or smth? Looking back now would you say you were lacking a lot of micronutrients (vitamins, minerals etc.)? Did you drink milk or eat anything dairy or meat?
Rarely ate fast food or any processed food. Clean low fat low calorie diet.

Yes, always was low on Vitamin D.

Yes, lots of milk and meat.
 
  • +1
Reactions: zxz
lol being skinny doesnt mean you cant get laid
It does if your face is bad. Being tall accentuates how skinny you are so you need to be 25 BMI to look like a normal person. Even at 25 BMI I look lean and not bulky.
 
I actually read it, very high IQ and thank you for the effort, this should go to the best of the best section
 
  • Love it
Reactions: zxz
It does if your face is bad. Being tall accentuates how skinny you are so you need to be 25 BMI to look like a normal person. Even at 25 BMI I look lean and not bulky.
Yea true, but tall + ugly face > short + ugly face.
I know quite some people who are recessed and not good looking but very tall and get decent looking girls.
 
High IQ thread hope u will get some’ ppl for your study
 
  • +1
Reactions: zxz
This sounds absolutely ridiculous.
 

I believe growing up in an urban environment causes teens to live more sedentary lives than their rural counterparts. Urbanization replaces fields and nature with high-rise buildings and computers. There is simply no space to run around and play in a city. I hypothesize that this sedentary lifestyle produces undeveloped leg and torso muscles, which results in a taller height. Kids in rural environments run around and play outside more often, which leads to well-developed leg and torso muscles, which leads to shorter overall height. Is this backed by any evidence? In 2013, CJ Paciorek published a study which found that urban children are taller than their rural counterparts in almost all of the 141 (low-income and middle-income) countries they researched:


Retarded post ngl. There may be a minor effect on height but that's not at all the reason. Rural kids aren't short because of their leg muscles contractile force JFL they are short because they have terrible diets compared to urban kids. It's been observed that nutrition and especially protein intake in childhood is extremely important for final height. Poor children aren't eating much meat because it's expensive and their diet consists mostly of grain and vegetables, not to mention they are probably in a caloric deficit a lot of the time which would inhibit growth.
 
  • +1
Reactions: XANAX
Retarded post ngl. There may be a minor effect on height but that's not at all the reason. Rural kids aren't short because of their leg muscles contractile force JFL they are short because they have terrible diets compared to urban kids. It's been observed that nutrition and especially protein intake in childhood is extremely important for final height. Poor children aren't eating much meat because it's expensive and their diet consists mostly of grain and vegetables, not to mention they are probably in a caloric deficit a lot of the time which would inhibit growth.
I know quite a few people who ate shit, were skinny (caloric deficit), eating only on bread with some cheese or jam and only playing games and sitting inside all day who's family was short yet they grew taller by a significant amount compared to their family or even average population.
 
The Determining Factor for Height

Introduction​

It seems that if there’s anything you don’t like about yourself, you can work on it or get it fixed. If you’re fat, you can diet and exercise. If you have a uni-brow, you can pluck it. If you’re short, though… sorry, not even surgery can help you there. Teens often wonder if weightlifting will stunt their growth, as if humans are supposed to be tall and anything less is suboptimal. I believe a man that is 5’5” is neither unhealthy nor malnourished. In today’s society, however, being short is a huge disadvantage for men. Studies have shown that height is strongly correlated with income—tall men are simply granted more money and status in society. Tall men often develop a sense of superiority from the ability to literally look down on other people. And, of course, a tall man has a greater selection of women to date since most women will only date a man taller than herself. Life seems very unfair for the short man. But what if I told you height is not 100% genetic and can be nurtured? Well, it’s probably too late for you anyway.



Hypothesis​

Fact: one’s height is the sum of the lengths of their leg, torso, neck, and head. Today’s scientists say that height is determined by growth plates, which are located at both ends of a bone, and that nothing can be done to alter their growth rate. I believe these scientists have overlooked the fact that muscles surround the bones. I hypothesize that height can be manipulated through development of the leg and torso muscles. (I left out the lengths of the head and neck because they are insignificant compared to the leg and torso.) Muscles have what’s known as a contractile force. As the muscle becomes bigger/more developed, the contractile force increases. If there is no muscle then there is no contractile force:


As you can see, this muscle’s contractile force goes the opposite direction of the growth plate force. Thus, leg and torso muscle hypertrophy should impede vertical growth. It is possible to stretch and massage a muscle into a more relaxed state and thus weakening the contractile force. To maximize height, I believe one must eliminate all the contractile forces that contribute to height. These are all the muscles with fibers that run vertically: the calves, quadriceps, hamstrings, abdominals, erector spinae, and quadratus lumborum. Any muscle development of these muscles will retard vertical growth, as my hypothesis goes.

How exactly would one maximize height? During the developmental years, one should avoid all high-intensity (i.e. muscle-building) exercises of the aforementioned muscles. This means never doing sit-ups, squats, etc. If physical activity must be done then it should be done with low-intensity (and high repetition). This means light jogging instead of sprinting, jumping rope rather than high jumping, hopscotch rather than long jump, or even carrying groceries into the house in three trips rather than one. In other words, energy should be expended with cardiovascular activities rather than in short bursts. This lifestyle will minimize muscle hypertrophy and thus maximize height. It’s hard to avoid all physical activity, however, so the second part of the equation is to frequently stretch and massage the leg and spine muscles to a relaxed state. The bridge stretch is a good example. Even sitting cross-legged for some time will stretch the leg and lower back muscles. To minimize height, one should engage in high-intensity leg and torso activities, and neglect stretching these muscles.

image002.png


Lugging a heavy backpack around school every day is the worst thing a teen can do for his/her height—not because of gravity, though. The act of stabilizing all the weight shifting around will strengthen the erector spinae and quadratus lumborum muscles.

Existing Hypotheses​

Many people believe height is genetically predetermined. I definitely agree that genes are a factor. But, as with many conditions, I see the role of genes as defining an individual’s default/expected value and the possible range of deviation. I often visualize the effect of genes as a probability distribution, or a box-and-whisker plot:

boxplot

I believe genes define how tall one is expected to grow. Basically, a daughter is expected to be the same height as her mother and a son is to be the same height as his father. I believe genes also define the minimum and maximum degree of deviation allowed. How far a person deviates from the projected value—how far one travels along the whiskers of the box plot—is up to nurture, I hypothesize.

So it’s genes + nurture. Most people today believe this means genes + diet, because people attribute just about every unexplained human phenomenon to diet. This is idiotic. Yes, I do believe malnutrition can stunt growth, but I believe extreme starvation is required for this to occur. I’m sure you’ve encountered short people who eat too much food, too little food, only healthy food, etc. and tall people who eat too much food, too little food, only healthy food, etc. In other words, no one has observed a correlation between height and diet. Why, then, do so many people believe diet determines height? People are simplistic. People believe that the only thing we have a choice on, in life, is what we eat. They fail to realize that there’s also “calories out”—our behavior.

Every four years, people notice that Olympic gymnasts are short and then wonder: did gymnastics make them short, or are they the best at gymnastics because they’re short? The chicken or the egg dilemma; is selection bias at play? Scientists say the growth plates cannot be affected, except from injury, therefore gymnastics cannot make a person short. I say it can. Unlike long-distance runners, gymnasts use the legs with high-intensity as they leap around in tumbling, vault, and balance beam. This induces muscle hypertrophy of the calves, quadriceps, hamstrings, abdominals, erector spinae, and quadratus lumborum, among other muscles. Thus, a large contractile force is working against growth plate expansion of the limbs involved in height.



Supporting Evidence: Comparing Urban to Rural​

I believe growing up in an urban environment causes teens to live more sedentary lives than their rural counterparts. Urbanization replaces fields and nature with high-rise buildings and computers. There is simply no space to run around and play in a city. I hypothesize that this sedentary lifestyle produces undeveloped leg and torso muscles, which results in a taller height. Kids in rural environments run around and play outside more often, which leads to well-developed leg and torso muscles, which leads to shorter overall height. Is this backed by any evidence? In 2013, CJ Paciorek published a study which found that urban children are taller than their rural counterparts in almost all of the 141 (low-income and middle-income) countries they researched:

height

The study’s interpretation of these findings is that the rural areas have less access to stable and affordable food supply and health care. This study is far from alone. There are countless studies that find a correlation between urbanization and height, and they all believe the same thing: better access to food and health care leads to taller humans. The truth of the matter is that there are many variables in play as humans go from a rural environment to an urban one, so using just this data will not suffice for my hypothesis. We must narrow it down to the “sedentary lifestyle” component of the urban environment as the determining factor of height.

Many studies have found that a sedentary lifestyle is strongly correlated with myopia, a.k.a. nearsightedness. The more hours you spend doing deskwork, the worse your vision will be. In fact, 80-90% of children completing high school are now myopic in urban cities in Asia. Why am I talking about myopia? Because it has a strong correlation to deskwork. Thus I am going to substitute “myopia” with “sedentary lifestyle.” In 2002, Saw SM, et al. published “Height and Its Relationship to Refraction and Biometry Parameters in Singapore Chinese Children” after finding a correlation between height and myopia. That is, Saw SM, et al. found that the taller the child was, the worse his/her vision was. Using my substitution: the taller the child, the more sedentary his/her lifestyle.

The following is not concrete evidence but rather a few things I’ve noticed over the years. One, it seems like children have been getting taller and taller. That is, a 10-year-old today seems taller than a 10-year-old from 10 years ago. Most people simply chalk this up to “better diet and nutrition” but I beg to differ. Food has been plentiful for many, many decades. Two, I’ve observed that the teenagers who are tall also seem to lack muscle development at the legs. That is, if you were to outline their legs, there would be no curves whatsoever at the calf and knee area—it’d just be straight lines from hip to foot, like a bad drawing. Shorter teenagers, on the other hand, tend to exhibit distinct calves and knees—or as I see it: muscle development.



Ideal Supporting Evidence: Teens That Did High-Intensity Legwork​

One way to gather data for my hypothesis would be to conduct a survey on full-grown adults (i.e. ages 22-40). First, I would ask them what their height is. Second, I would ask them if they participated in karate, gymnastics, weightlifting of the legs, etc. as a developing child/teenager. Third, I would ask them how many months/years they were active in these sports. I expect the data to show a strong negative relationship between years spent doing high-intensity leg activities and (final) height. Karate and gymnastics qualify as high-intensity leg workouts because they involve a lot of kicking and jumping.

Another survey possibility would be to ask how much outdoor playtime someone experienced during their developmental years. The survey would poll developing teens and full-grown adults, rural and urban. The teens would be able to give the most accurate numbers as to how long they played. I predict the rural population to have more outdoor play, and thus be shorter, than their urban counterparts. I’d say that for the majority of countries, for at least one generation now, people in rural areas have had access to the same kind of diet/calories as people in urban areas. I also predict that in mountainous regions to have more muscularly-developed legs, and thus be shorter, than people in flat plains.

The best evidence for my hypothesis would be a survey on the heights of identical twins that lived drastically different lifestyles yet shared similar diets. For example, a twin who took many years of karate or gymnastics while his/her twin did not. Unfortunately, this scenario is very rare because most parents of twins want to give their twins have an equal and fair upbringing. However, Googling clever phrases, such as: “stunt growth weight lifting ‘twin brother’,” “stunt growth gymnastics 'twin sister',” or “stunt growth working out ‘identical twin’,” yielded many anecdotes that support my hypothesis.



Comparing Heights is Tricky​

Beware of people on the internet parroting the unproven theory that working out or weightlifting does not stunt growth. These people often cite scientists that say genetically-predetermined growth plates are responsible for overall height. End of story. Truth is, there hasn’t been a study to prove one way or the other. Also beware of people sharing their personal anecdote with no control variable. Say, for example, Jamaal from the internet says he ran track and field for all four years in high school and he’s much taller than the average American man, therefore leg workouts do not hinder height at all. I hope you see that this is incredibly flawed. First of all, he doesn’t have a control variable—he is comparing himself to the average American—America is a very diverse country with many ethnicities. It would be more acceptable for him to compare his height to the average height of his ethnicity in America. More acceptable than that would be to compare to the average of his cousins. More acceptable than that would be a blood sibling. Ideal would be an identical twin that didn’t do any physical activity in high school. Secondly, running is not necessarily a high-intensity leg exercise and thus may not induce muscle growth. Sprinting is, but long-distance running is low-intensity. Among the teenagers who do work out, only a few actually work out the calves, quadriceps, hamstrings, abdominals, or erector spinae with high intensity.

There is currently no explanation as to why siblings differ in height. The genetic explanation may be that one sibling “got the bad genes.” My hypothesis says that the child who uses leg and torso muscles with high intensity will grow up to be “the short one.” But it gets tricky! Women are, by nature, about 10% smaller than men, and thus 10% shorter as well. For example, say a man is 5’10” and has a sister. It’s expected that his sister is around 5’3” because this is 10% less than 5’10”. If she turned out to also be 5’10”, I would conjecture that the man’s childhood involved intense leg usage, while hers did not. If she turned out to be 4’11”, I would speculate the other way around. Another factor to consider is that, in today’s society, physical activity is reserved for the male gender. The boy is encouraged or forced to do the physical labor, especially when it comes to strenuous (i.e. high-intensity) activities, because he is to “be a man.” The girl is discouraged or excused from doing physical activity because she is to “be a princess.” If a female is doing physical work, it’s advised to be low-intensity cardio activity. This is a moot point in a modern, urban lifestyle, however, where this physical labor is nearly nonexistent. But if a (rural) family strictly adhered to these gender roles, I would bet on the boy growing up to be shorter than his sister, or barely taller.



Implications of my Hypothesis​

Besides keeping high-intensity activity at a minimum, a less obvious way to maximize height would be a special diet devoid of protein. Since protein purportedly aids in muscle growth and recovery, kids can avoid protein-rich foods during developmental years to minimize muscle growth. Kids should also avoid getting fat, because fat is extra weight to carry around which leads to muscle hypertrophy. For example, if you took two kids—one fat, one skinny—with the same age, height, and lifestyle, the fat kid will have a more muscle mass. This is from carrying about daily activities with extra weight on. So I suppose diet does matter, but not in the way people believe it matters.

The harder you work, the shorter you will grow up to be—if work is to be defined as high-intensity physical labor. When I see a short man—especially for his race—I often think to myself, “He must have worked hard when he was young. Maybe he helped his parents carry heavy loads every day.” And when I see a really tall man, I cannot help but think, “He’s probably never pushed himself physically. Maybe he spent his childhood sitting cross-legged in front of a TV all day.” I’m not saying the equation for height is 100% nurture. Genetics still play a role. I would say that being short comes from generations of high-intensity leg and back work, and being tall comes from generations of comfortable living. Yes, this is Lamarck’s Theory of Inheritance of Acquired Characteristics. Again, before you try to disprove my hypothesis with an anecdote: you need a control variable, such as a same-sex sibling. For example, it is a mistake to compare your level of physical activity and final height to the national average, especially if that nation is racially diverse.

@copingvolcel is an example of this theory. Just look around you.

TL;DR: Working out will make your muscles stronger and bigger, this will exert force in the opposite direction of which your bones grow, limiting high-intensity low-repetition working out will make you taller, instead, low-intensity high-repetition should be done.

aka don't workout, get taller theory.


My take on this is don't work out until the age of 20.


TAG TALL-SKINNYCELS BELOW
Just Roid and ghmax at 15 and don't workout until 20.
 
i carried round a huge backpack all day, stressed all the time, didn’t eat well or sleep well. i wonder how much i fucked myself up
 
Hmm I'm about the same height (~182 cm) as my older brother who plays basketball while I'm sedentary on the computer all day. Although I still have 1-2 years left to grow so if I grow another inch that could mean being sedentary helped me. It could also be that if you exercise a lot your bones will grow thicker because of forces exerted (wolffs law or whatever), and that would mean that physically there is more bone molecules the body needs to grow compared to a thin boned sedentary person

ps in school prob 70% of the super tryhard athletic white kids I knew since 1st grade ended up being like 5'6 which is interesting
 
Last edited:
@zxz What's your take on catch-up height growth? Saying I stunted some growth potential because of too much heavy weight training, is it be possible that my body can still catch up on it in early 20s?
 
I was mostly sedentary throughout my life and I am 5'7.5 which is my dad's height. All my friends except 1 are taller than their dads. I even noticed throughout life that active people tend to be taller, especially back in high school.
 
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@WadlowMaxxing thots?
 
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DNR a word but high effort, gj
 
@WadlowMaxxing thots?
well, I disagree with the original premise. your bones are much much stronger than you realize. from a view of physics, a normal amount of muscle would have few few affects on long bone growth. I believe in enviroments role, sure.however, that would only have a major effect on young children or teens, fixing your diet in sleep in your late teens to early twenties would have minimal effect on height if at all. comparing rural vs urban children is invalid as well. ethnicities vary throughout a country, there's no homogenous state. I shouldn't have to explain why anecdotes are pointless either. overall, maybe he's onto something. I believe there's a lot to be learnt about bone growth/development we've yet to find out. but this, from a view of physics and rationality, makes no sense.
 
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SOLUTION TO HEIGHT:
Spinnin
 
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This thread is cope for NEETs JFL, high intensity Printing secrets the most hgh. Plus football players that have been training since youth are 6’2 on average.
 
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Tbh as a high schooler working with researchers from a top 50 university regarding Achondroplasia (basically means that i am very knowledgeable when it comes to hormone and gene interactions w height) high amounts of muscle may have some effect on height due to pressure (you grow when you sleep, gravity isn’t pushing down vertically onto your bones when lying down like when standing, this is why you lose like 1% height over the day), but asserting that Lamarck’s Theory of Inheritance of Acquired Characteristics is true is just plain stupid. Anyone who has gone through a college biology class (for me, AP bio) knows that inherited characteristics is an outdated theory that has been debunked and hasn’t been accepted since Darwin came along. Unless you’re asserting that exertion of labor during your childhood somehow possibly changed DNA methylation and acetylation at an epigenetic level and then your children inherited it, I’m hesitant to acknowledge this.
 
also to add on, you essentially just based your theory off of anecdotes and sketchy deductive reasoning, and then told people to not disprove your theory with anecdotes lmao
 
Difference between male and female is about 10%.
I'm 180 cm so 10% = 18 cm
180-18=162 cm
My sister is around 167 meaning I should be atleast 185 cm or above, because: 167-162=5.
180+5=185
Ofcourse 10% of 185 = 18,5 cm and that would mean my sister would be around 166,5cm, but thats why I'm using the terms "around" & "atleast"

This doesnt apply literally anywhere. Exactly how low is your iq? The difference is 14 cm at most, even as low as 10cm in some hispanic countries
 
The Determining Factor for Height

Introduction​

It seems that if there’s anything you don’t like about yourself, you can work on it or get it fixed. If you’re fat, you can diet and exercise. If you have a uni-brow, you can pluck it. If you’re short, though… sorry, not even surgery can help you there. Teens often wonder if weightlifting will stunt their growth, as if humans are supposed to be tall and anything less is suboptimal. I believe a man that is 5’5” is neither unhealthy nor malnourished. In today’s society, however, being short is a huge disadvantage for men. Studies have shown that height is strongly correlated with income—tall men are simply granted more money and status in society. Tall men often develop a sense of superiority from the ability to literally look down on other people. And, of course, a tall man has a greater selection of women to date since most women will only date a man taller than herself. Life seems very unfair for the short man. But what if I told you height is not 100% genetic and can be nurtured? Well, it’s probably too late for you anyway.



Hypothesis​

Fact: one’s height is the sum of the lengths of their leg, torso, neck, and head. Today’s scientists say that height is determined by growth plates, which are located at both ends of a bone, and that nothing can be done to alter their growth rate. I believe these scientists have overlooked the fact that muscles surround the bones. I hypothesize that height can be manipulated through development of the leg and torso muscles. (I left out the lengths of the head and neck because they are insignificant compared to the leg and torso.) Muscles have what’s known as a contractile force. As the muscle becomes bigger/more developed, the contractile force increases. If there is no muscle then there is no contractile force:


As you can see, this muscle’s contractile force goes the opposite direction of the growth plate force. Thus, leg and torso muscle hypertrophy should impede vertical growth. It is possible to stretch and massage a muscle into a more relaxed state and thus weakening the contractile force. To maximize height, I believe one must eliminate all the contractile forces that contribute to height. These are all the muscles with fibers that run vertically: the calves, quadriceps, hamstrings, abdominals, erector spinae, and quadratus lumborum. Any muscle development of these muscles will retard vertical growth, as my hypothesis goes.

How exactly would one maximize height? During the developmental years, one should avoid all high-intensity (i.e. muscle-building) exercises of the aforementioned muscles. This means never doing sit-ups, squats, etc. If physical activity must be done then it should be done with low-intensity (and high repetition). This means light jogging instead of sprinting, jumping rope rather than high jumping, hopscotch rather than long jump, or even carrying groceries into the house in three trips rather than one. In other words, energy should be expended with cardiovascular activities rather than in short bursts. This lifestyle will minimize muscle hypertrophy and thus maximize height. It’s hard to avoid all physical activity, however, so the second part of the equation is to frequently stretch and massage the leg and spine muscles to a relaxed state. The bridge stretch is a good example. Even sitting cross-legged for some time will stretch the leg and lower back muscles. To minimize height, one should engage in high-intensity leg and torso activities, and neglect stretching these muscles.

image002.png


Lugging a heavy backpack around school every day is the worst thing a teen can do for his/her height—not because of gravity, though. The act of stabilizing all the weight shifting around will strengthen the erector spinae and quadratus lumborum muscles.

Existing Hypotheses​

Many people believe height is genetically predetermined. I definitely agree that genes are a factor. But, as with many conditions, I see the role of genes as defining an individual’s default/expected value and the possible range of deviation. I often visualize the effect of genes as a probability distribution, or a box-and-whisker plot:

boxplot

I believe genes define how tall one is expected to grow. Basically, a daughter is expected to be the same height as her mother and a son is to be the same height as his father. I believe genes also define the minimum and maximum degree of deviation allowed. How far a person deviates from the projected value—how far one travels along the whiskers of the box plot—is up to nurture, I hypothesize.

So it’s genes + nurture. Most people today believe this means genes + diet, because people attribute just about every unexplained human phenomenon to diet. This is idiotic. Yes, I do believe malnutrition can stunt growth, but I believe extreme starvation is required for this to occur. I’m sure you’ve encountered short people who eat too much food, too little food, only healthy food, etc. and tall people who eat too much food, too little food, only healthy food, etc. In other words, no one has observed a correlation between height and diet. Why, then, do so many people believe diet determines height? People are simplistic. People believe that the only thing we have a choice on, in life, is what we eat. They fail to realize that there’s also “calories out”—our behavior.

Every four years, people notice that Olympic gymnasts are short and then wonder: did gymnastics make them short, or are they the best at gymnastics because they’re short? The chicken or the egg dilemma; is selection bias at play? Scientists say the growth plates cannot be affected, except from injury, therefore gymnastics cannot make a person short. I say it can. Unlike long-distance runners, gymnasts use the legs with high-intensity as they leap around in tumbling, vault, and balance beam. This induces muscle hypertrophy of the calves, quadriceps, hamstrings, abdominals, erector spinae, and quadratus lumborum, among other muscles. Thus, a large contractile force is working against growth plate expansion of the limbs involved in height.



Supporting Evidence: Comparing Urban to Rural​

I believe growing up in an urban environment causes teens to live more sedentary lives than their rural counterparts. Urbanization replaces fields and nature with high-rise buildings and computers. There is simply no space to run around and play in a city. I hypothesize that this sedentary lifestyle produces undeveloped leg and torso muscles, which results in a taller height. Kids in rural environments run around and play outside more often, which leads to well-developed leg and torso muscles, which leads to shorter overall height. Is this backed by any evidence? In 2013, CJ Paciorek published a study which found that urban children are taller than their rural counterparts in almost all of the 141 (low-income and middle-income) countries they researched:

height

The study’s interpretation of these findings is that the rural areas have less access to stable and affordable food supply and health care. This study is far from alone. There are countless studies that find a correlation between urbanization and height, and they all believe the same thing: better access to food and health care leads to taller humans. The truth of the matter is that there are many variables in play as humans go from a rural environment to an urban one, so using just this data will not suffice for my hypothesis. We must narrow it down to the “sedentary lifestyle” component of the urban environment as the determining factor of height.

Many studies have found that a sedentary lifestyle is strongly correlated with myopia, a.k.a. nearsightedness. The more hours you spend doing deskwork, the worse your vision will be. In fact, 80-90% of children completing high school are now myopic in urban cities in Asia. Why am I talking about myopia? Because it has a strong correlation to deskwork. Thus I am going to substitute “myopia” with “sedentary lifestyle.” In 2002, Saw SM, et al. published “Height and Its Relationship to Refraction and Biometry Parameters in Singapore Chinese Children” after finding a correlation between height and myopia. That is, Saw SM, et al. found that the taller the child was, the worse his/her vision was. Using my substitution: the taller the child, the more sedentary his/her lifestyle.

The following is not concrete evidence but rather a few things I’ve noticed over the years. One, it seems like children have been getting taller and taller. That is, a 10-year-old today seems taller than a 10-year-old from 10 years ago. Most people simply chalk this up to “better diet and nutrition” but I beg to differ. Food has been plentiful for many, many decades. Two, I’ve observed that the teenagers who are tall also seem to lack muscle development at the legs. That is, if you were to outline their legs, there would be no curves whatsoever at the calf and knee area—it’d just be straight lines from hip to foot, like a bad drawing. Shorter teenagers, on the other hand, tend to exhibit distinct calves and knees—or as I see it: muscle development.



Ideal Supporting Evidence: Teens That Did High-Intensity Legwork​

One way to gather data for my hypothesis would be to conduct a survey on full-grown adults (i.e. ages 22-40). First, I would ask them what their height is. Second, I would ask them if they participated in karate, gymnastics, weightlifting of the legs, etc. as a developing child/teenager. Third, I would ask them how many months/years they were active in these sports. I expect the data to show a strong negative relationship between years spent doing high-intensity leg activities and (final) height. Karate and gymnastics qualify as high-intensity leg workouts because they involve a lot of kicking and jumping.

Another survey possibility would be to ask how much outdoor playtime someone experienced during their developmental years. The survey would poll developing teens and full-grown adults, rural and urban. The teens would be able to give the most accurate numbers as to how long they played. I predict the rural population to have more outdoor play, and thus be shorter, than their urban counterparts. I’d say that for the majority of countries, for at least one generation now, people in rural areas have had access to the same kind of diet/calories as people in urban areas. I also predict that in mountainous regions to have more muscularly-developed legs, and thus be shorter, than people in flat plains.

The best evidence for my hypothesis would be a survey on the heights of identical twins that lived drastically different lifestyles yet shared similar diets. For example, a twin who took many years of karate or gymnastics while his/her twin did not. Unfortunately, this scenario is very rare because most parents of twins want to give their twins have an equal and fair upbringing. However, Googling clever phrases, such as: “stunt growth weight lifting ‘twin brother’,” “stunt growth gymnastics 'twin sister',” or “stunt growth working out ‘identical twin’,” yielded many anecdotes that support my hypothesis.



Comparing Heights is Tricky​

Beware of people on the internet parroting the unproven theory that working out or weightlifting does not stunt growth. These people often cite scientists that say genetically-predetermined growth plates are responsible for overall height. End of story. Truth is, there hasn’t been a study to prove one way or the other. Also beware of people sharing their personal anecdote with no control variable. Say, for example, Jamaal from the internet says he ran track and field for all four years in high school and he’s much taller than the average American man, therefore leg workouts do not hinder height at all. I hope you see that this is incredibly flawed. First of all, he doesn’t have a control variable—he is comparing himself to the average American—America is a very diverse country with many ethnicities. It would be more acceptable for him to compare his height to the average height of his ethnicity in America. More acceptable than that would be to compare to the average of his cousins. More acceptable than that would be a blood sibling. Ideal would be an identical twin that didn’t do any physical activity in high school. Secondly, running is not necessarily a high-intensity leg exercise and thus may not induce muscle growth. Sprinting is, but long-distance running is low-intensity. Among the teenagers who do work out, only a few actually work out the calves, quadriceps, hamstrings, abdominals, or erector spinae with high intensity.

There is currently no explanation as to why siblings differ in height. The genetic explanation may be that one sibling “got the bad genes.” My hypothesis says that the child who uses leg and torso muscles with high intensity will grow up to be “the short one.” But it gets tricky! Women are, by nature, about 10% smaller than men, and thus 10% shorter as well. For example, say a man is 5’10” and has a sister. It’s expected that his sister is around 5’3” because this is 10% less than 5’10”. If she turned out to also be 5’10”, I would conjecture that the man’s childhood involved intense leg usage, while hers did not. If she turned out to be 4’11”, I would speculate the other way around. Another factor to consider is that, in today’s society, physical activity is reserved for the male gender. The boy is encouraged or forced to do the physical labor, especially when it comes to strenuous (i.e. high-intensity) activities, because he is to “be a man.” The girl is discouraged or excused from doing physical activity because she is to “be a princess.” If a female is doing physical work, it’s advised to be low-intensity cardio activity. This is a moot point in a modern, urban lifestyle, however, where this physical labor is nearly nonexistent. But if a (rural) family strictly adhered to these gender roles, I would bet on the boy growing up to be shorter than his sister, or barely taller.



Implications of my Hypothesis​

Besides keeping high-intensity activity at a minimum, a less obvious way to maximize height would be a special diet devoid of protein. Since protein purportedly aids in muscle growth and recovery, kids can avoid protein-rich foods during developmental years to minimize muscle growth. Kids should also avoid getting fat, because fat is extra weight to carry around which leads to muscle hypertrophy. For example, if you took two kids—one fat, one skinny—with the same age, height, and lifestyle, the fat kid will have a more muscle mass. This is from carrying about daily activities with extra weight on. So I suppose diet does matter, but not in the way people believe it matters.

The harder you work, the shorter you will grow up to be—if work is to be defined as high-intensity physical labor. When I see a short man—especially for his race—I often think to myself, “He must have worked hard when he was young. Maybe he helped his parents carry heavy loads every day.” And when I see a really tall man, I cannot help but think, “He’s probably never pushed himself physically. Maybe he spent his childhood sitting cross-legged in front of a TV all day.” I’m not saying the equation for height is 100% nurture. Genetics still play a role. I would say that being short comes from generations of high-intensity leg and back work, and being tall comes from generations of comfortable living. Yes, this is Lamarck’s Theory of Inheritance of Acquired Characteristics. Again, before you try to disprove my hypothesis with an anecdote: you need a control variable, such as a same-sex sibling. For example, it is a mistake to compare your level of physical activity and final height to the national average, especially if that nation is racially diverse.

@copingvolcel is an example of this theory. Just look around you.

TL;DR: Working out will make your muscles stronger and bigger, this will exert force in the opposite direction of which your bones grow, limiting high-intensity low-repetition working out will make you taller, instead, low-intensity high-repetition should be done.

aka don't workout, get taller theory.


My take on this is don't work out until the age of 20.


TAG TALL-SKINNYCELS BELOW
I'm Indian who was privileged to not work since childhood . I was in residential school where our batch was of privileged kids and most of us are tall as fuck compared to guys from rural villages . I'm 6'1
 
I remember knowing a very tall dude who swum. Lol at not swimmaxxing during puberty. Too late for me now but oh well.


my bones are ridiculously dense when in the water i sink instantly i have to do a full thrust motion just to stay afloat but kids glide and relax on water like a matress its sad tbh but atleast i can snap anyone
 
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Vitamin deficiency has been shown to stunt growth not the opposite plus micro fractures caused by sprinting can add some height
 
Women are not 10% shorter than Men. The average difference is 5 inches. Which is not 10%
 
Difference between male and female is about 10%.
I'm 180 cm so 10% = 18 cm
180-18=162 cm
My sister is around 167 meaning I should be atleast 185 cm or above, because: 167-162=5.
180+5=185
Ofcourse 10% of 185 = 18,5 cm and that would mean my sister would be around 166,5cm, but thats why I'm using the terms "around" & "atleast"
Flat out wrong. The difference between men and women is 12-14cm depending on country
 
this theory may have some validity to it
 
The Determining Factor for Height

Introduction​

It seems that if there’s anything you don’t like about yourself, you can work on it or get it fixed. If you’re fat, you can diet and exercise. If you have a uni-brow, you can pluck it. If you’re short, though… sorry, not even surgery can help you there. Teens often wonder if weightlifting will stunt their growth, as if humans are supposed to be tall and anything less is suboptimal. I believe a man that is 5’5” is neither unhealthy nor malnourished. In today’s society, however, being short is a huge disadvantage for men. Studies have shown that height is strongly correlated with income—tall men are simply granted more money and status in society. Tall men often develop a sense of superiority from the ability to literally look down on other people. And, of course, a tall man has a greater selection of women to date since most women will only date a man taller than herself. Life seems very unfair for the short man. But what if I told you height is not 100% genetic and can be nurtured? Well, it’s probably too late for you anyway.



Hypothesis​

Fact: one’s height is the sum of the lengths of their leg, torso, neck, and head. Today’s scientists say that height is determined by growth plates, which are located at both ends of a bone, and that nothing can be done to alter their growth rate. I believe these scientists have overlooked the fact that muscles surround the bones. I hypothesize that height can be manipulated through development of the leg and torso muscles. (I left out the lengths of the head and neck because they are insignificant compared to the leg and torso.) Muscles have what’s known as a contractile force. As the muscle becomes bigger/more developed, the contractile force increases. If there is no muscle then there is no contractile force:


As you can see, this muscle’s contractile force goes the opposite direction of the growth plate force. Thus, leg and torso muscle hypertrophy should impede vertical growth. It is possible to stretch and massage a muscle into a more relaxed state and thus weakening the contractile force. To maximize height, I believe one must eliminate all the contractile forces that contribute to height. These are all the muscles with fibers that run vertically: the calves, quadriceps, hamstrings, abdominals, erector spinae, and quadratus lumborum. Any muscle development of these muscles will retard vertical growth, as my hypothesis goes.

How exactly would one maximize height? During the developmental years, one should avoid all high-intensity (i.e. muscle-building) exercises of the aforementioned muscles. This means never doing sit-ups, squats, etc. If physical activity must be done then it should be done with low-intensity (and high repetition). This means light jogging instead of sprinting, jumping rope rather than high jumping, hopscotch rather than long jump, or even carrying groceries into the house in three trips rather than one. In other words, energy should be expended with cardiovascular activities rather than in short bursts. This lifestyle will minimize muscle hypertrophy and thus maximize height. It’s hard to avoid all physical activity, however, so the second part of the equation is to frequently stretch and massage the leg and spine muscles to a relaxed state. The bridge stretch is a good example. Even sitting cross-legged for some time will stretch the leg and lower back muscles. To minimize height, one should engage in high-intensity leg and torso activities, and neglect stretching these muscles.

image002.png


Lugging a heavy backpack around school every day is the worst thing a teen can do for his/her height—not because of gravity, though. The act of stabilizing all the weight shifting around will strengthen the erector spinae and quadratus lumborum muscles.

Existing Hypotheses​

Many people believe height is genetically predetermined. I definitely agree that genes are a factor. But, as with many conditions, I see the role of genes as defining an individual’s default/expected value and the possible range of deviation. I often visualize the effect of genes as a probability distribution, or a box-and-whisker plot:

boxplot

I believe genes define how tall one is expected to grow. Basically, a daughter is expected to be the same height as her mother and a son is to be the same height as his father. I believe genes also define the minimum and maximum degree of deviation allowed. How far a person deviates from the projected value—how far one travels along the whiskers of the box plot—is up to nurture, I hypothesize.

So it’s genes + nurture. Most people today believe this means genes + diet, because people attribute just about every unexplained human phenomenon to diet. This is idiotic. Yes, I do believe malnutrition can stunt growth, but I believe extreme starvation is required for this to occur. I’m sure you’ve encountered short people who eat too much food, too little food, only healthy food, etc. and tall people who eat too much food, too little food, only healthy food, etc. In other words, no one has observed a correlation between height and diet. Why, then, do so many people believe diet determines height? People are simplistic. People believe that the only thing we have a choice on, in life, is what we eat. They fail to realize that there’s also “calories out”—our behavior.

Every four years, people notice that Olympic gymnasts are short and then wonder: did gymnastics make them short, or are they the best at gymnastics because they’re short? The chicken or the egg dilemma; is selection bias at play? Scientists say the growth plates cannot be affected, except from injury, therefore gymnastics cannot make a person short. I say it can. Unlike long-distance runners, gymnasts use the legs with high-intensity as they leap around in tumbling, vault, and balance beam. This induces muscle hypertrophy of the calves, quadriceps, hamstrings, abdominals, erector spinae, and quadratus lumborum, among other muscles. Thus, a large contractile force is working against growth plate expansion of the limbs involved in height.



Supporting Evidence: Comparing Urban to Rural​

I believe growing up in an urban environment causes teens to live more sedentary lives than their rural counterparts. Urbanization replaces fields and nature with high-rise buildings and computers. There is simply no space to run around and play in a city. I hypothesize that this sedentary lifestyle produces undeveloped leg and torso muscles, which results in a taller height. Kids in rural environments run around and play outside more often, which leads to well-developed leg and torso muscles, which leads to shorter overall height. Is this backed by any evidence? In 2013, CJ Paciorek published a study which found that urban children are taller than their rural counterparts in almost all of the 141 (low-income and middle-income) countries they researched:

height

The study’s interpretation of these findings is that the rural areas have less access to stable and affordable food supply and health care. This study is far from alone. There are countless studies that find a correlation between urbanization and height, and they all believe the same thing: better access to food and health care leads to taller humans. The truth of the matter is that there are many variables in play as humans go from a rural environment to an urban one, so using just this data will not suffice for my hypothesis. We must narrow it down to the “sedentary lifestyle” component of the urban environment as the determining factor of height.

Many studies have found that a sedentary lifestyle is strongly correlated with myopia, a.k.a. nearsightedness. The more hours you spend doing deskwork, the worse your vision will be. In fact, 80-90% of children completing high school are now myopic in urban cities in Asia. Why am I talking about myopia? Because it has a strong correlation to deskwork. Thus I am going to substitute “myopia” with “sedentary lifestyle.” In 2002, Saw SM, et al. published “Height and Its Relationship to Refraction and Biometry Parameters in Singapore Chinese Children” after finding a correlation between height and myopia. That is, Saw SM, et al. found that the taller the child was, the worse his/her vision was. Using my substitution: the taller the child, the more sedentary his/her lifestyle.

The following is not concrete evidence but rather a few things I’ve noticed over the years. One, it seems like children have been getting taller and taller. That is, a 10-year-old today seems taller than a 10-year-old from 10 years ago. Most people simply chalk this up to “better diet and nutrition” but I beg to differ. Food has been plentiful for many, many decades. Two, I’ve observed that the teenagers who are tall also seem to lack muscle development at the legs. That is, if you were to outline their legs, there would be no curves whatsoever at the calf and knee area—it’d just be straight lines from hip to foot, like a bad drawing. Shorter teenagers, on the other hand, tend to exhibit distinct calves and knees—or as I see it: muscle development.



Ideal Supporting Evidence: Teens That Did High-Intensity Legwork​

One way to gather data for my hypothesis would be to conduct a survey on full-grown adults (i.e. ages 22-40). First, I would ask them what their height is. Second, I would ask them if they participated in karate, gymnastics, weightlifting of the legs, etc. as a developing child/teenager. Third, I would ask them how many months/years they were active in these sports. I expect the data to show a strong negative relationship between years spent doing high-intensity leg activities and (final) height. Karate and gymnastics qualify as high-intensity leg workouts because they involve a lot of kicking and jumping.

Another survey possibility would be to ask how much outdoor playtime someone experienced during their developmental years. The survey would poll developing teens and full-grown adults, rural and urban. The teens would be able to give the most accurate numbers as to how long they played. I predict the rural population to have more outdoor play, and thus be shorter, than their urban counterparts. I’d say that for the majority of countries, for at least one generation now, people in rural areas have had access to the same kind of diet/calories as people in urban areas. I also predict that in mountainous regions to have more muscularly-developed legs, and thus be shorter, than people in flat plains.

The best evidence for my hypothesis would be a survey on the heights of identical twins that lived drastically different lifestyles yet shared similar diets. For example, a twin who took many years of karate or gymnastics while his/her twin did not. Unfortunately, this scenario is very rare because most parents of twins want to give their twins have an equal and fair upbringing. However, Googling clever phrases, such as: “stunt growth weight lifting ‘twin brother’,” “stunt growth gymnastics 'twin sister',” or “stunt growth working out ‘identical twin’,” yielded many anecdotes that support my hypothesis.



Comparing Heights is Tricky​

Beware of people on the internet parroting the unproven theory that working out or weightlifting does not stunt growth. These people often cite scientists that say genetically-predetermined growth plates are responsible for overall height. End of story. Truth is, there hasn’t been a study to prove one way or the other. Also beware of people sharing their personal anecdote with no control variable. Say, for example, Jamaal from the internet says he ran track and field for all four years in high school and he’s much taller than the average American man, therefore leg workouts do not hinder height at all. I hope you see that this is incredibly flawed. First of all, he doesn’t have a control variable—he is comparing himself to the average American—America is a very diverse country with many ethnicities. It would be more acceptable for him to compare his height to the average height of his ethnicity in America. More acceptable than that would be to compare to the average of his cousins. More acceptable than that would be a blood sibling. Ideal would be an identical twin that didn’t do any physical activity in high school. Secondly, running is not necessarily a high-intensity leg exercise and thus may not induce muscle growth. Sprinting is, but long-distance running is low-intensity. Among the teenagers who do work out, only a few actually work out the calves, quadriceps, hamstrings, abdominals, or erector spinae with high intensity.

There is currently no explanation as to why siblings differ in height. The genetic explanation may be that one sibling “got the bad genes.” My hypothesis says that the child who uses leg and torso muscles with high intensity will grow up to be “the short one.” But it gets tricky! Women are, by nature, about 10% smaller than men, and thus 10% shorter as well. For example, say a man is 5’10” and has a sister. It’s expected that his sister is around 5’3” because this is 10% less than 5’10”. If she turned out to also be 5’10”, I would conjecture that the man’s childhood involved intense leg usage, while hers did not. If she turned out to be 4’11”, I would speculate the other way around. Another factor to consider is that, in today’s society, physical activity is reserved for the male gender. The boy is encouraged or forced to do the physical labor, especially when it comes to strenuous (i.e. high-intensity) activities, because he is to “be a man.” The girl is discouraged or excused from doing physical activity because she is to “be a princess.” If a female is doing physical work, it’s advised to be low-intensity cardio activity. This is a moot point in a modern, urban lifestyle, however, where this physical labor is nearly nonexistent. But if a (rural) family strictly adhered to these gender roles, I would bet on the boy growing up to be shorter than his sister, or barely taller.



Implications of my Hypothesis​

Besides keeping high-intensity activity at a minimum, a less obvious way to maximize height would be a special diet devoid of protein. Since protein purportedly aids in muscle growth and recovery, kids can avoid protein-rich foods during developmental years to minimize muscle growth. Kids should also avoid getting fat, because fat is extra weight to carry around which leads to muscle hypertrophy. For example, if you took two kids—one fat, one skinny—with the same age, height, and lifestyle, the fat kid will have a more muscle mass. This is from carrying about daily activities with extra weight on. So I suppose diet does matter, but not in the way people believe it matters.

The harder you work, the shorter you will grow up to be—if work is to be defined as high-intensity physical labor. When I see a short man—especially for his race—I often think to myself, “He must have worked hard when he was young. Maybe he helped his parents carry heavy loads every day.” And when I see a really tall man, I cannot help but think, “He’s probably never pushed himself physically. Maybe he spent his childhood sitting cross-legged in front of a TV all day.” I’m not saying the equation for height is 100% nurture. Genetics still play a role. I would say that being short comes from generations of high-intensity leg and back work, and being tall comes from generations of comfortable living. Yes, this is Lamarck’s Theory of Inheritance of Acquired Characteristics. Again, before you try to disprove my hypothesis with an anecdote: you need a control variable, such as a same-sex sibling. For example, it is a mistake to compare your level of physical activity and final height to the national average, especially if that nation is racially diverse.

@copingvolcel is an example of this theory. Just look around you.

TL;DR: Working out will make your muscles stronger and bigger, this will exert force in the opposite direction of which your bones grow, limiting high-intensity low-repetition working out will make you taller, instead, low-intensity high-repetition should be done.

aka don't workout, get taller theory.


My take on this is don't work out until the age of 20.


TAG TALL-SKINNYCELS BELOW
Okay I lol'd at low protein diet advice. Completely retarded
Tl;Dr unironically, stretch the muscles u mentioned
 
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  • JFL
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take mk677 and ai
sleep well eat well

/thread
 
It's all about low t guys who has no muscle mass. It's not about muscle. you are associating wrong.
 
I didn't excercise ANYTHING during puberty. Becasue of my sixth sense that told me my body needed'nt exercise becuase it needed REST and SLEEP to grow. The same sixth sense that told me not to put in a dental device that would have stunted my jaw growth when the dentist molded a copy of it at like 12 and also told me not to wear a mask and aviod the covid vaccine. Anyway I ended up being 6'4. I slept awful during puberty, ate pizza and other fast food litterally every day (no joke) and masturbated 2-3 times a day.
 
This theory is really interesting and high-effort. Exercise does increase HGH tho, so that should at least partially counteract the compression force of the developed muscles. I wonder if people who have a mutation which makes them fail to produce myostatin are shorter than average.
 

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