Actual box osteotomy patient, as well as every other extreme surgery

[CosmicMaxxer]

Was your 154mm bizygo pre or post cheek augmentation? Using everything you have told me here I may just settle for bsso/genio and rhino, as everything else seems to be decent ratio and mean wise and I am not rich. Again, thank you so much for your knowledge

I never explicitly expanded my zygo arch width. I believe it grew overtime in combination with a tendency to gain weight there. My face was actually narrow looking around age 18. I did get temporal implants at 24 (under the temporalis muscle) but that should not affect zygo width as it is slightly above.

Less restrictive? I thought 6 inches were well within his "range"

Paley stopped me at like 7.2 cm on my femurs with the excuse that my bone would refracture if I lengthened more due to the original fracture being too jagged or something. AKA his incompetency with the original fracture cost me like 8 mm (8 cm limit rods). For tibias they stop most people at 5-6 cm. Some even at 4-5 if they are too "tight". Mahboubian hesitated to let me go to 6.5 when I was at 5 because of how tight I was, and when we got to 6.5 I asked him to let me get to 7, then I went to 7.5 at home without him knowing lol. He didn't mind so much because even though I was tight, I get PT everyday, and my bone regrowth is very strong, so no chance of nonunion. I also have the money for muscle release surgeries should I need them.

Attached 2 pics from the 2 hospital days after Tibia LL surgery.

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

These are my eyes today. As you can see, just a little more reduction of upper eyelid swelling on my right side leads to a big improvement. Once all the swelling is gone, as well as my skin is recovered from CO2, I'd expect even the close-up of the eyes to look quite aesthetic, nevermind its contribution to overall harmony on my tallish and broad head.

 

[accsmt]

These are my eyes today. As you can see, just a little more reduction of upper eyelid swelling on my right side leads to a big improvement. Once all the swelling is gone, as well as my skin is recovered from CO2, I'd expect even the close-up of the eyes to look quite aesthetic, nevermind its contribution to overall harmony on my tallish and broad head.

Could you DM me the before/after? I'm very curious to see the overall impact of all the eye area surgeries

 

[LooksmaxxHopeful]

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had.

I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a picture of my surgical plan. I also had my left eye raised relative to the right for symmetry, and my "boxes" rotated so that my cheekbones would be higher on a framework level, not just augmenting with implants, though I did have permanent filler in the area already, as well as infraorbital implants from Taban years ago (he sucks, actually worse than Douglas/Massry and Eppley, had cantho or lower lid retraction surgeries by all of them).

I was hoping the rotation would lead to more PCT but ultimately the canthal ligaments and whatnot resettle at their previous elevation. My canthos were not performed that great, but I did tons of research and got a follow-up drill-hole cantho with lower lid fat grafting by Eppley, and he gave me better results than any oculoplastic I tried previously (including 2 attempts by Taban).

My doc was Derek Steinbacher. I messaged a bunch of craniofacial/plastic combined specialty surgeons as found by google searching ("craniofacial plastic") and he was the one to respond.

Recovery was gnarly, not too painful, but I was functionally swollen blind the first few days. Months to regain eyebrow movement and general facial sensitivity. The right side of my upper lip extending upwards to encompass the buccal region is still experiencing numbness/parasthesia, but it's whatever. Overall I'm pretty happy with how it went. Attached a pic of my pre-surgical plan.

I'm sure this will attract a lot of interest, but I am quite busy so please don't dm me much, I'll answer various q's here. I'm not gonna show before/afters because I want to protect my identity.

Edit: May as well just use this thread to answer any questions about any surgeries at this point. I might make threads more specific to certain things (eye shape, LL, facial de-bloating, etc.) in the future.

I don't have any surgical questions as of yet because for the next few years I'm mainly focusing on taking the aesthetics/zyzz/gym-maxxing before I commit to any facial surgery, but I'd just like to say that you should stay on the website because it's always good to have experienced/educated people here to help.

 

[randomvanish]

what the hell... it's like my all most unbelievable dreams come true... i want LL tbh but feel like not worth it. how is your athletic ability after all? how is your walking and running ?

 

[randomvanish]

also how many months you spend until you fully healed after LL on tibia? (also on femur)

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

what's the most painful surgery you've had

 

[randomvanish]

also how many months you spend until you fully healed after LL on tibia? (also on femur)

i really wonder this, please make a detailed comment on this.

 

[UglyGod360]

View attachment 1423906

I'm still burned from C02 laser but this gives a better idea of the harmony the wide-set eyes create despite maybe less than ideal pfl.

Oscar de la Hoya, is that u

 

[chance]

I started as roughly a 3.75/10 on the PSL scale before any surgery, and will likely end up around 6.5/10 (top 10%) after the swelling from my final surgery resolves, as rated by several PSL friends of mine. The box osteotomy specifically did not boost me much in and of itself, but set up the stage for a wraparound jaw implant and skull implant to complete my robust spacious face (tall and very broad skull), which contributes to my presence (skull-mog).

I should also mention, I've had 2 LL's, started at 5'7.5 and ending up at 6'1.67. I'll make another thread about that eventually.

what. the. fuck?

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

Oscar de la Hoya, is that u

I'd say my eyes are more exotic and darkly mysterious than his. Look at my more recent picture on this page.

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

also how many months you spend until you fully healed after LL on tibia? (also on femur)

On femur, I'd say fully healed (no limp at all) was like 2 years. For tibia, I'm only 7.5 months post now, barely walking. For femurs I was walking 6 months post and at 9-10 I felt normal though still limped a bit. I expect to walk halfway normally in like 4 months from now tbh. So nearly a full year after my tibia surgery.

 

[chance]

I'm Jewish (half Sephardic half Ashkenazi). I looked light-skinned middle eastern-ish originally, and now I look Russian with a sprinkling of Asian (similar to tennis player Marat Safin).

had to be an evil mf. waiting for the LL thread. try not subverting the ppl on this forum too much with ur jewish evilness.

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

what's the most painful surgery you've had

Definitely LL, nothing comes close. All the pains the first month of femur surgery were exhausting. Tibia not so much. Thought the first 2 days of Tibia was "redefining pain" since they took me off the morphine drip on only the 2nd day. At Paley's for femur, I had 6 days of drip.

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

had to be an evil mf. waiting for the LL thread. try not subverting the ppl on this forum too much with ur jewish evilness.

Is this some form of satire? I'm confused as to what you're trying to say

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

Definitely LL, nothing comes close. All the pains the first month of femur surgery were exhausting. Tibia not so much. Thought the first 2 days of Tibia was "redefining pain" since they took me off the morphine drip on only the 2nd day. At Paley's for femur, I had 6 days of drip.

interesting. how would you best describe the pain from LL?

btw, did you get lip reduction under local or general anesthesia? I actually made that post to see if you'd say lip reduction because that would've cracked me up. I had it done and the local anesthesia was brootal jfl.

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

interesting. how would you best describe the pain from LL?

btw, did you get lip reduction under local or general anesthesia? I actually made that post to see if you'd say lip reduction because that would've cracked me up. I had it done and the local anesthesia was brootal jfl.

The pain of LL is like your legs have been run over by a truck for the first few months, and then the most brutal leg day workout of your life for the remainder of the recovery, in varying shades.

I had 3 lower lip reductions and one upper lip reduction, all under general.

 

[randomvanish]

The pain of LL is like your legs have been run over by a truck for the first few months, and then the most brutal leg day workout of your life for the remainder of the recovery, in varying shades.

I had 3 lower lip reductions and one upper lip reduction, all under general.

so at least how many months needed to fake like you haven't got any surgery with tibia? i'm talking about maybe a little bit limp but normal walking..

also do you think LL is too problematic to have it? because this forum thinks like "LL means you'll be crippled in future for sure".

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

so at least how many months needed to fake like you haven't got any surgery with tibia? i'm talking about maybe a little bit limp but normal walking..

also do you think LL is too problematic to have it? because this forum thinks like "LL means you'll be crippled in future for sure".

maybe like 1-1.25 years.

I wouldn't have gotten it if I thought the result would be anything close to crippled. The surgeries just take some time to recover from. And then you should stretch lifelong in order to avoid arthritis later on. Since once you're recovered you can walk fine and play sports at a diminished athleticism, but the main thing is your soft tissues will still be tight and long term that's bad.

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

The pain of LL is like your legs have been run over by a truck for the first few months, and then the most brutal leg day workout of your life for the remainder of the recovery, in varying shades.

I had 3 lower lip reductions and one upper lip reduction, all under general.

4x general anesthesia for lip reduction jfllll

for local they inject that stuff here

lowkey made me cry


I honestly kinda thought the whole LL recovery is overrated because people who get it for non-cosmetic reasons don't seem to make nearly as much of a fuss about it

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

4x general anesthesia for lip reduction jfllll

for local they inject that stuff here
View attachment 1424747

lowkey made me cry


I honestly kinda thought the whole LL recovery is overrated because people who get it for non-cosmetic reasons don't seem to make nearly as much of a fuss about it

Everytime the reductions were thrown in to a more extensive surgery. LIke lower lid retraction repair plus lip reduction. or Rhino + lip reduction. Or finally, lower lip plus upper lip reduction plus mouth corner raising surgery.

 

[randomvanish]

maybe like 1-1.25 years.

I wouldn't have gotten it if I thought the result would be anything close to crippled. The surgeries just take some time to recover from. And then you should stretch lifelong in order to avoid arthritis later on. Since once you're recovered you can walk fine and play sports at a diminished athleticism, but the main thing is your soft tissues will still be tight and long term that's bad.

so Dr. Shahab Mahboubian's claim is a lie basically ? he claim that you can go back to workout heavily after 6-8 months but you say 1-1,25 years even proper walking

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

so Dr. Shahab Mahboubian's claim is a lie basically ? he claim that you can go back to workout heavily after 6-8 months but you say 1-1,25 years even proper walking

He's referring to femurs or conventional limit (<=5 cm) tibia lengthenings. I did 7.5 cm tibias, after having done femurs previously. Completely different variables.

 

[randomvanish]

He's referring to femurs or conventional limit (<=5 cm) tibia lengthenings. I did 7.5 cm tibias, after having done femurs previously. Completely different variables.

woww, so if i get like 5 cm on tibia only, i can go back to normal life after 6 months ?

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

woww, so if i get like 5 cm on tibia only, i can go back to normal life after 6 months ?

ya

 

[vtribal]

Holy shit 2 LLs, after all of these surgeries how would people still be able to recognize you? Is that something you worry about?

 

[Deleted member 14848]

These are my eyes today. As you can see, just a little more reduction of upper eyelid swelling on my right side leads to a big improvement. Once all the swelling is gone, as well as my skin is recovered from CO2, I'd expect even the close-up of the eyes to look quite aesthetic, nevermind its contribution to overall harmony on my tallish and broad head.

u seem to have a very weak browridge
May I ask what's your origin?

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

Holy shit 2 LLs, after all of these surgeries how would people still be able to recognize you? Is that something you worry about?

old friends from HS/college can't recognize me I'm sure, but I don't keep in contact with them anyways.

u seem to have a very weak browridge
May I ask what's your origin?

Mentioned on the first page, Jewish. Brow ridge is one area I'm not sold on having to be strong, but I might get some frontal forehead/browridge implant in the future for a moderate projection enhancement.

 

[Deleted member 14848]

old friends from HS/college can't recognize me I'm sure, but I don't keep in contact with them anyways.

Mentioned on the first page, Jewish. Brow ridge is one area I'm not sold on having to be strong, but I might get some frontal forehead/browridge implant in the future for a moderate projection enhancement.

Can u answer pm?
I would like to get advice cause I never met someone that knowledgeable tbh

 

[joseph]

Hello, I am an OG from puahate, and certainly the most surgically experienced person in PSL history. I will make threads in the future about other topics, but here I want to answer questions about the OBO I had.

I went from 65.5 mm IPD (on a 154 mm bizygo face) to a 72 mm IPD. I've attached a picture of my surgical plan. I also had my left eye raised relative to the right for symmetry, and my "boxes" rotated so that my cheekbones would be higher on a framework level, not just augmenting with implants, though I did have permanent filler in the area already, as well as infraorbital implants from Taban years ago (he sucks, actually worse than Douglas/Massry and Eppley, had cantho or lower lid retraction surgeries by all of them).

I was hoping the rotation would lead to more PCT but ultimately the canthal ligaments and whatnot resettle at their previous elevation. My canthos were not performed that great, but I did tons of research and got a follow-up drill-hole cantho with lower lid fat grafting by Eppley, and he gave me better results than any oculoplastic I tried previously (including 2 attempts by Taban).

My doc was Derek Steinbacher. I messaged a bunch of craniofacial/plastic combined specialty surgeons as found by google searching ("craniofacial plastic") and he was the one to respond.

Recovery was gnarly, not too painful, but I was functionally swollen blind the first few days. Months to regain eyebrow movement and general facial sensitivity. The right side of my upper lip extending upwards to encompass the buccal region is still experiencing numbness/parasthesia, but it's whatever. Overall I'm pretty happy with how it went. Attached a pic of my pre-surgical plan.

I'm sure this will attract a lot of interest, but I am quite busy so please don't dm me much, I'll answer various q's here. I'm not gonna show before/afters because I want to protect my identity.

Edit: May as well just use this thread to answer any questions about any surgeries at this point. I might make threads more specific to certain things (eye shape, LL, facial de-bloating, etc.) in the future.

Congrats. You did the 2 most invasive surgeries that have the greatest potential to increase smv and fix flaws. I've wanted to do both but I thought it was impossible for different reasons - LL practically because of money and OBO because safety and I didn't know that anyone actually offered it even for aesthetic purposes.

 

[Win200]

@Win200 you've been over-taken as the guy that actually went to all our favorite surgeons.
this dude spent $600k and probably 3 years in bed recovering, what a guy, got every surgery under the sun.
View attachment 1424110

I'm admiring your dedication OP, I hope the results turn out as you good as you hope for.
Question for you OP: did you quit Finance job to do the coding to get into FAANG? debating if i should do the same as the hours in finance are just crippling and even missing 2 weeks of work due to recovery isn't a positive look

Oh my god I'm not even close to being in this league

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

I estimate I have, ya. Each LL about 100k, like 3-4 lower eyelid/hunter-eye attempts totalling 100k, rhino, jaw and chin implants (later replaced by wraparound), temporal and forehead implants (the latter of which will be removed and replaced with the big skull implant), deltoid-widening implants, HT, numerous lip reductions and facial fat removal attempts, experimentation with filler when I was less "established" (my parents helped me with my first 200k of surgeries I'd say).

I started looks-maxxing at 23.5, and will finish around my 32nd birthday within 2 months. I am now at least HTN if not chad-lite, at 6 inches taller than my original self. I probably have left out a bunch of other shit I did. It's been a crazy ride that started back in the days of PUAhate, which mostly confirmed all my suspicions about face+height+frame blackpill.

Why did you not go for a much more affordable LL surgeon in Turkey?

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

Why did you not go for a much more affordable LL surgeon in Turkey?

LL is definitely not the thing to cheap out on. Rhino or HT, sure, but not LL. The main benefit of doing it in the US is the doctor's and hospital's ability to deal with worst-case scenarios.

 

[deepweb1298]

Could you share some of the scans regarding jaw wraparound? Like how much bigonial width projection you were thinking of in relation to bizygo width?
Also what are your thoughts on long term bone erosion or complications due to implants? Dr Zarrinbal personally hates any kind of jaw implants due to complications. What are your thoughts on this?

 

[AlwaysHaveQuestions]

On femur, I'd say fully healed (no limp at all) was like 2 years. For tibia, I'm only 7.5 months post now, barely walking. For femurs I was walking 6 months post and at 9-10 I felt normal though still limped a bit. I expect to walk halfway normally in like 4 months from now tbh. So nearly a full year after my tibia surgery.

when you say limp do you mean your leg gives out at times or it's a consistent weakness?

also it looks like your eyes are less deep set(arab pheno) in after. isn't it impossible to make the eye more forward because that would strain the nerves

did the fat graft stick

 

[lilhorizontal32]

I started as roughly a 3.75/10 on the PSL scale before any surgery, and will likely end up around 6.5/10 (top 10%) after the swelling from my final surgery resolves, as rated by several PSL friends of mine. The box osteotomy specifically did not boost me much in and of itself, but set up the stage for a wraparound jaw implant and skull implant to complete my robust spacious face (tall and very broad skull), which contributes to my presence (skull-mog).

I should also mention, I've had 2 LL's, started at 5'7.5 and ending up at 6'1.67. I'll make another thread about that eventually.

mirin your inhibition levels. were you not worried about surgical risks/complications?

 

[lilhorizontal32]

Yes that’s what Pagnoni did for me. It mogs hard

you already got the surgery with pagnoni bro?

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

Yes that’s what Pagnoni did for me. It mogs hard

Can you make a thread on this method to increase pfl?

 

[PubertyMaxxer]

The Infra orbitals rims are needed to shape the lower lid in achieving an aesthetic eye shape

Aren't Infraorbital-Malar-Maxillary implants ideal then?

 

[randomvanish]

@CosmicMaxxer have you got x-ray on your femur after healing process complete? i mean do you have weaker femur bones now or is it same with other tall people?
if you get impact on femur, is it easy to be fractured ?

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

Could you share some of the scans regarding jaw wraparound? Like how much bigonial width projection you were thinking of in relation to bizygo width?
Also what are your thoughts on long term bone erosion or complications due to implants? Dr Zarrinbal personally hates any kind of jaw implants due to complications. What are your thoughts on this?

I aimed for a roughly .85 ratio. I started with 154 mm skin to skin zygo arch width, and 122 for the jaws. So I added 1 cm of width overall. 5 mm on each side is amongst the lowest you'll see in male jaw implants, which just shows how ignorant most people who get these implants are. As if 1 cm of extra bigonial is nearly ever insufficient.

Bone erosion is less likely to occur in a wraparound because it wraps around a lower border which is less likely to erode bone. Also, bone actually overgrows the implants. Eppley had to remove quite a lot of bone overlying my original jaw angles for example. Silicone is perfectly fine. I find all the paranoia about it to be some weird European thing.

Attached pics of jaw implant and skull (for those interested).

when you say limp do you mean your leg gives out at times or it's a consistent weakness?

also it looks like your eyes are less deep set(arab pheno) in after. isn't it impossible to make the eye more forward because that would strain the nerves

did the fat graft stick

My leg doesn't give out in any dangerous way, I've never fallen. It's more consistent weakness, soreness, tightness, pain, and general difficulty. It just takes a good amount of time to recover, but shit always returns to normal, unless you define "normal" as being as competitive in sports as you were before.

That's a great observation, not many people notice that. Ya, they do look a bit less deep, which isn't something I was expecting. Are you saying having less deep set eyes is an arab pheno, or that more deep eyes is arab and my change makes me less arab looking? Anyways, this occurred because the doc moved the boxes forwards a bit, which gave me mogger orbital/frontal malar projection, more than I even wanted as I didn't ask him to move them forwards. Overall It looks nicer though, more approachable. Fat grafts are good but you have to get them multiple times in an area to really see an impressive result.

mirin your inhibition levels. were you not worried about surgical risks/complications?

None of these surgeries has a "serious" incidence rate above like .1% or something. OBO in this day and age with modern 3d planning has near 100% success rate, and that's in patients with anatomical defects. In a healthy person with intact Dura, honestly there's more risk of being injured in a car accident or violent crime. LL in the US is also nearly fool-proof, complications are rare and very treatable if they do occur.

As for other facial surgeries, you have to research the doctor's aptitude for a given surgery, and have enough anatomical understanding to verify extremely low risk of getting botched. And backup plans if you do get "botched" in any way. For example, one time I went too aggressive with permanent filler in the malars, and later got some of it removed in a lower eyelid retraction surgery. And recently got Morpheus8 to tighten up the looseness left.

@CosmicMaxxer have you got x-ray on your femur after healing process complete? i mean do you have weaker femur bones now or is it same with other tall people?
if you get impact on femur, is it easy to be fractured ?

Once the bone is fully healed and remodeled, it is no weaker than anyone else's femur. The athletic biomechanics may be worse due to more soft tissue tightness than average which could potentially lead to easier injury, but the bone integrity is no worse than anyone else's.

 

[AlwaysHaveQuestions]

My leg doesn't give out in any dangerous way, I've never fallen. It's more consistent weakness, soreness, tightness, pain, and general difficulty. It just takes a good amount of time to recover, but shit always returns to normal, unless you define "normal" as being as competitive in sports as you were before.

That's a great observation, not many people notice that. Ya, they do look a bit less deep, which isn't something I was expecting. Are you saying having less deep set eyes is an arab pheno, or that more deep eyes is arab and my change makes me less arab looking? Anyways, this occurred because the doc moved the boxes forwards a bit, which gave me mogger orbital/frontal malar projection, more than I even wanted as I didn't ask him to move them forwards. Overall It looks nicer though, more approachable. Fat grafts are good but you have to get them multiple times in an area to really see an impressive result.

great to hear it would suck if you legs give out while crossing the road or pressing on a pedal at 90 mph jfl

i am saying you look less arab. im guessing they move the boxes forward but your eyeball is the same distance from your brain or wherever the optic nerves are attached to. would that mean the regular OBO advancement will decrease ipd? your medial canthus show looks smaller

to

btw do you mind explaining to me the reason you did fat grafts. is it suppose to be done in conjunction with eyelid retraction for a more natural look to prevent the melenia trump look where there is too much area with thin lower eyelid

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

great to hear it would suck if you legs give out while crossing the road or pressing on a pedal at 90 mph jfl

i am saying you look less arab. im guessing they move the boxes forward but your eyeball is the same distance from your brain or wherever the optic nerves are attached to. would that mean the regular OBO advancement will decrease ipd? your medial canthus show looks smaller
View attachment 1426707 to View attachment 1426709

btw do you mind explaining to me the reason you did fat grafts. is it suppose to be done in conjunction with eyelid retraction for a more natural look

I wouldn't be shocked if my medial canthus show decreased, I've wondered to myself if it's always been this small.
Just a forwards OBO movement? Hard to say tbh, the dynamics of how dimensions like pfl change in these surgeries is always a mystery. We need a medical school/residency understanding of ocular anatomy to predict these things. Giant Implants for example says that a lateral orbital wall movement alone (something Dr. S suggested as an alternative) would not necessarily increase pfl without a medial bone graft. One of the reasons I chose OBO over lateral wall osteotomy, the certainty of the cosmetic gain (IPD). Plus IPD affects facial harmony more imo.

The fat grafts under the eyelids help prevent/heal existing scar tissue (from prior surgeries) and give extra buffer to the lower lid. It's almost like an easy way to do a "spacer graft". Maybe not quite as thorough but still effective if someone doesn't have extreme retraction.

I've attached a newer pic of my eyes in the mirror at an angle, co2 burn now clearing up. One of my eyelids is still clearly swollen. Overall, I think the eye aesthetics are coming along quite well.

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

Actually I'm sure my medial canthus show has decreased, because my outercanthal increased post OBO as expected, but my intercanthal increased more mm than the movement (6-7 mm). Kinda sucks I guess. But good to know my actual "substantive" eye area (iris + inner + outer sclera) is decent horizontal length. I'm guessing that somewhat mitigates the relatively disproportionate overall pfl. Not including the skinny red part of my eyes, they are not significantly shorter than ideal. Just a side effect of cosmetic surgery, a random small unnaturalness as part of the price of admission.

 

[lilhorizontal32]

I aimed for a roughly .85 ratio. I started with 154 mm skin to skin zygo arch width, and 122 for the jaws. So I added 1 cm of width overall. 5 mm on each side is amongst the lowest you'll see in male jaw implants, which just shows how ignorant most people who get these implants are. As if 1 cm of extra bigonial is nearly ever insufficient.

Bone erosion is less likely to occur in a wraparound because it wraps around a lower border which is less likely to erode bone. Also, bone actually overgrows the implants. Eppley had to remove quite a lot of bone overlying my original jaw angles for example. Silicone is perfectly fine. I find all the paranoia about it to be some weird European thing.

Attached pics of jaw implant and skull (for those interested).

My leg doesn't give out in any dangerous way, I've never fallen. It's more consistent weakness, soreness, tightness, pain, and general difficulty. It just takes a good amount of time to recover, but shit always returns to normal, unless you define "normal" as being as competitive in sports as you were before.

That's a great observation, not many people notice that. Ya, they do look a bit less deep, which isn't something I was expecting. Are you saying having less deep set eyes is an arab pheno, or that more deep eyes is arab and my change makes me less arab looking? Anyways, this occurred because the doc moved the boxes forwards a bit, which gave me mogger orbital/frontal malar projection, more than I even wanted as I didn't ask him to move them forwards. Overall It looks nicer though, more approachable. Fat grafts are good but you have to get them multiple times in an area to really see an impressive result.


None of these surgeries has a "serious" incidence rate above like .1% or something. OBO in this day and age with modern 3d planning has near 100% success rate, and that's in patients with anatomical defects. In a healthy person with intact Dura, honestly there's more risk of being injured in a car accident or violent crime. LL in the US is also nearly fool-proof, complications are rare and very treatable if they do occur.

As for other facial surgeries, you have to research the doctor's aptitude for a given surgery, and have enough anatomical understanding to verify extremely low risk of getting botched. And backup plans if you do get "botched" in any way. For example, one time I went too aggressive with permanent filler in the malars, and later got some of it removed in a lower eyelid retraction surgery. And recently got Morpheus8 to tighten up the looseness left.


Once the bone is fully healed and remodeled, it is no weaker than anyone else's femur. The athletic biomechanics may be worse due to more soft tissue tightness than average which could potentially lead to easier injury, but the bone integrity is no worse than anyone else's.

thanks for the response. mind if I can see your before and afters? will keep it private of course

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

This is something I'd be curious to try to eek out more pfl. Seems like it may be more effective than surgery for this purpose. Anybody live in Italy who can try this out?

 

[Deleted member 15985]

I'm speeches and astounded, wow.

Congrats on discovering looksmaxxing early enough (aged 23.5; I only discovered it at 26.5) and having the resources and dedication to pull it all off. I'm a 171cm Israeli Jew myself, and though I won't follow in your hardmaxxing path, I must say that what you've done is incredibly admirable, and "crazy" in a positive, pioneering kind of way. Bravo, brother.

Looking forward to your LL thread.

 

[randomvanish]

soft tissue tightness than average which could potentially lead to easier injury

you mean muscle and soft tissue injury? do you feel thightness regularly after femur surgery? what is your experience from your first surgery?

 

[CosmicMaxxer]

I'm speeches and astounded, wow.

Congrats on discovering looksmaxxing early enough (aged 23.5; I only discovered it at 26.5) and having the resources and dedication to pull it all off. I'm a 171cm Israeli Jew myself, and though I won't follow in your hardmaxxing path, I must say that what you've done is incredibly admirable, and "crazy" in a positive, pioneering kind of way. Bravo, brother.

Looking forward to your LL thread.

Hehe thanks, I knew I was being a bit of a pioneer but honestly its mostly survival/reproductive pressure given the amount of online dating fails I've experienced and my inability to get an LTR with a girl I find hot. Ya, I'll do an LL thread after this one cools off a bit. Though chances are I'll have answered most LL shit here lol.

you mean muscle and soft tissue injury? do you feel thightness regularly after femur surgery? what is your experience from your first surgery?

Ya I suppose so, but even bone injury if the soft tissue pressures lead to awkward biomechanics that cause some fall or something. Hasn't happened to me, but I have a very good sense of limits, good body awareness (never bump into people accidentally). If you're not a klutz you won't get injured.

Ya the tightness from the first surgery lasted quite a while. At 6 months I could walk, 9 months to normalish gait 2 years to perfectly normal gait. Struggled with tennis due to muscle tightness making me so sore afterwards. But it gets better over time, and the more you stretch the more you'll get to that "90%" pre-LL athletic recovery cliche.

 

[ifyouwannabemylover]

Hehe thanks, I knew I was being a bit of a pioneer but honestly its mostly survival/reproductive pressure given the amount of online dating fails I've experienced and my inability to get an LTR with a girl I find hot. Ya, I'll do an LL thread after this one cools off a bit. Though chances are I'll have answered most LL shit here lol.


Ya I suppose so, but even bone injury if the soft tissue pressures lead to awkward biomechanics that cause some fall or something. Hasn't happened to me, but I have a very good sense of limits, good body awareness (never bump into people accidentally). If you're not a klutz you won't get injured.

Ya the tightness from the first surgery lasted quite a while. At 6 months I could walk, 9 months to normalish gait 2 years to perfectly normal gait. Struggled with tennis due to muscle tightness making me so sore afterwards. But it gets better over time, and the more you stretch the more you'll get to that "90%" pre-LL athletic recovery cliche.

6 inches+ LL is pretty nutty. I would have gone to like 5'10 and called it a day tbh.